Ukraine War

[DigglerontheHoof 21168]

11 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

I bet GWB releases some generic support statement once we’ve committed to a plan as a jab to trump how past presidents are supposed to act. 

GWB had PLENTY of chances to "jab" dotard while dotard was POTUS and his cowardly ass said nada.  GW has a yellow streak a mile wide. 

[WhatTheBuck 28771]

Hopefully the CIA is hard at work stirring up unrest within Russia. Do we have our own troll farms creating fake Facebook and Twitter accounts organizing protests in Moscow?

[DigglerontheHoof 21168]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Hopefully the CIA is hard at work stirring up unrest within Russia. Do we have our own troll farms creating fake Facebook and Twitter accounts organizing protests in Moscow?

It sure as hell feels like this is a one-way mind fuck.  Russia can be a big factor to completely fuck up our political discourse but we have zero influence over there. 

[WhatTheBuck 28771]

5 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

GWB had PLENTY of chances to "jab" dotard while dotard was POTUS and his cowardly ass said nada.  GW has a yellow streak a mile wide. 

He was busy painting cats.

[Captainant 27619]

3 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

It sure as hell feels like this is a one-way mind fuck.  Russia can be a big factor to completely fuck up our political discourse but we have zero influence over there. 

It's moreso that Russia dragged us down to their level. Trump and Putin have remarkably similar rhetoric strategies:

Blatantly lie in such incredible volume that your opposition is bogged down trying to prove you wrong, and use your base to repeat the lie until it's conventional wisdom - aka "people are saying". Boom, instant alternative facts.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

11 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

GWB had PLENTY of chances to "jab" dotard while dotard was POTUS and his cowardly ass said nada.  GW has a yellow streak a mile wide. 

That’s sort of my point.  He was being the non-meddling former president when trump was in office, as they all have been.  

[Blotto 23485]

16 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I think this is where the rubber meets the road.  I think everyone is going to have some pain if you want to put Russia down, which is what is needed.  Obviously, the thread of sanctions wasn't enough. He invaded anyway.  We are in a very different place today vs. a few days ago.  The sanctions now must be debilitating, otherwise, they are meaningless and sanctions will never act as a deterrent ever again.

80 years ago everyone living in the US made huge sacrifices as a country to ensure the war effort was successful. Rationing of gasoline, tires, etc...

https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/history/info-2020/world-war-ii-rationing.html

Now obviously, we're still a long way away from being drawn into a war effort of that magnitude, but if things spiral out of control in Europe, 40 percent of our country will be encouraged to back the enemy by our previous president. Trump remains Putin's best investment of all time. 

[WhatTheBuck 28771]

7 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

That’s sort of my point.  He was being the non-meddling former president when trump was in office, as they all have been.  

To be fair, Bush really doesn’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing anyone on how to be a good President. 

[hornmpa96 2618]

35 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I think this is where the rubber meets the road.  I think everyone is going to have some pain if you want to put Russia down, which is what is needed.  Obviously, the thread of sanctions wasn't enough. He invaded anyway.  We are in a very different place today vs. a few days ago.  The sanctions now must be debilitating, otherwise, they are meaningless and sanctions will never act as a deterrent ever again.

I agree and that’s what I hope happens, but I don’t think the powers-that-be will actually follow through.

[Don Johnson 4752]

40 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

I bet GWB releases some generic support statement once we’ve committed to a plan as a jab to trump how past presidents are supposed to act. 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

5 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Logistically it's a lot better for them than Iraq and Afghanistan were for us.  Chances are they take control of some of Ukraine and it becomes messy with civil war not too different than what the US did in the middle east. 

Unfortunately, 2 straight decades of invading sovereign middle eastern nations doesn't give the US any real leg to stand on to criticize this too harshly and be taken seriously by anyone else in the world. 

This isn't starting some world war. Every leader, including Putin, knows how badly that will be for them and they all know no one wants to cross that line now with the world all nuked up. 

Although there's zero doubt in my mind that nukes are the only thing that's kept another world war or 2 from happening between 1945 and now. 

This is a bad take. Just on so many levels. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Welcome back to the Cold War.

[Caponata 151]

6 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

 

A lot of Ukrainians, including the Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion we funded aren't "woke" either. So dumb looking at this through a Dem vs Pub lens. 

[High Plains Drifter 11024]

7 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

 

And then Shannon Bream in the studio has her usual smiley cheery demeanor.   I mean, at least pretend to be concerned for your own reporter if nothing else, you sociopath.  Bret Baier keeps trying to steer her into being more somber, saying things like prayers for the Ukrainian people and their correspondents on the ground, and she just keeps on with the vapid beauty queen tone.  It is just weird.

 

She can tell you about the plane crash, with a gleam in her eye.

[Hermanator 7031]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

To be fair, Bush really doesn’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing anyone on how to be a good President. 

Or how to not invade other countries under false pretense. Face it, we gave away any moral high ground when  Bush decimated the middle east and gave rise to ISIS. We are sitting this out the way Russia sat out our 20 years of playtime. Should have just let Ukraine keep their nukes and say if Russia invades you then nuke Moscow. Would have prevented this. 

 

11 minutes ago, Blotto said:

80 years ago everyone living in the US made huge sacrifices as a country to ensure the war effort was successful. Rationing of gasoline, tires, etc...

https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/history/info-2020/world-war-ii-rationing.html

Now obviously, we're still a long way away from being drawn into a war effort of that magnitude, but if things spiral out of control in Europe, 40 percent of our country will be encouraged to back the enemy by our previous president. Trump remains Putin's best investment of all time. 

80 years ago the US was in a better position to do that. It was coming off a depression and the masses had already adjusted to doing without for over a decade. Today is the opposite of that and majority of Americans are leveraged to the teeth just to survive and provide. 

[Hermanator 7031]

13 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

This is a bad take. Just on so many levels. 

Explain

[UpperWestside 6159]

7 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

And then Shannon Bream in the studio has her usual smiley cheery demeanor.   I mean, at least pretend to be concerned for your own reporter if nothing else, you sociopath.  Bret Baier keeps trying to steer her into being more somber, saying things like prayers for the Ukrainian people and their correspondents on the ground, and she just keeps on with the vapid beauty queen tone.  It is just weird.

I googled this to be certain because of the last name, but sure enough Sid Bream is her brother-in-law. The first baseball game I ever saw in person in 1988 at the Astrodome had him starting at 1st base. 

[brakeman 28349]

Mean while here in DC.

 

[Scheiss Meister 8407]

I have been busy, so I haven't been able to look for myself, but have any of the Trump dick lampreys called for Russian "peacekeepers" in the US to help them with the big lie?  Because, if it hasn't been done yet, it will be soon.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[TexArcher 37761]

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

That’s sort of my point.  He was being the non-meddling former president when trump was in office, as they all have been.  

Exactly.  There's a long-standing tradition of respect from former presidents to sitting presidents, regardless of party lines.

And Trump has burned that tradition to the ground.  Because of course he has.

[Gourmand 7774]

10 hours ago, David Dennison said:

'Member Honky Kong?

I 'member.

Ah yes, Antifa......

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Welcome back to the Cold War.

I was talking about this with my wife last night. It be interesting to fast forward 100 years and think how people are going to study this part of history. It will probably still be thought of as the Cold War even though it’s 30 years later. “People called it the Cold War because for the first half everyone actually naively believed that while tensions were certainly high the principal actors were actually going to shoot at each other. But as we all know the tensions boiled over eventually.”

[Captainant 27619]

Cross posting from the DT thread: Russians just attacking civilians now. In spoiler: Russian jet shooting missiles into a village

Spoiler

 

 

 

[David Dennison 18837]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Cross posting from the DT thread: Russians just attacking civilians now. In spoiler: Russian jet shooting missiles into a village

  Hide contents

 

 

 

It kind of sucks that the United States can't really get on its high horse about stuff like this given our track record in the Middle East.

[Captainant 27619]

Just now, David Dennison said:

It kind of sucks that the United States can't really get on its high horse about stuff like this given our track record in the Middle East.

Hey hey hey now, we send sword missiles from unmanned drones to murder civilians! None of this manned fighter and rocket barabarism. Completely different!

/s

[TexArcher 37761]

Jesus Christ, BBC article says Ukraine is already reporting 40+ dead soldiers and 10+ dead civilians.  

[Macanudo 12974]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Welcome back to the Cold War.

The thing is, it never really ended.  The split up of the USSR looked great on paper.  But Putin has been in power for 20 years.

[Macanudo 12974]

3 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Jesus Christ, BBC article says Ukraine is already reporting 40+ dead soldiers and 10+ dead civilians.  

We've forgotten how bloody war is.   In that part of world, 50 dead due to war is nothing.   

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

37 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

Depending on how many of these they have, they could cripple the entire Russian military.

[TexArcher 37761]

6 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

We've forgotten how bloody war is.   In that part of world, 50 dead due to war is nothing.   

True, it's just awfully fast.  And it's going to get so much worse.

[WhatTheBuck 28771]

56 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I have been busy, so I haven't been able to look for myself, but have any of the Trump dick lampreys called for Russian "peacekeepers" in the US to help them with the big lie?  Because, if it hasn't been done yet, it will be soon.

Michael Flynn already called for Trump to impose martial law after he lost the election. I’m not sure how they can top that. 

[TurkeyChew 383]

3 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I understand that taking Russia out of SWIFT was off the table for the first round of sanctions, which were already announced.  Given Putin's moves this AM Russia time, I imagine that it is very much on the table now and would make a whole lotta fucking sense.

I thought that Russia was taken off SWIFT in the first sanctions, actually, but that it didn't matter in the short term due to Russia preparing for it for years.

Just googled looks like there was a "back-tracking" on it:

"Yet for all the aggressive posturing, the U.S. coalition has seemingly backtracked on SWIFT, deciding not to block Russian access to the international payments communication system. Pundits have come to refer to SWIFT sanctions as “the nuclear option.” But some policy experts say this characterization is wildly overstated, arguing instead that SWIFT sanctions wouldn’t be nearly as effective as those directly targeting Russian banks.

So why are sanctions against Russian banks still on the table, while cutting off SWIFT access has been deemed a step too far? There’s a simple answer: Removing Russian access would constitute an economic shock that U.S. politicians and corporations would rather not instigate."

https://www.protocol.com/policy/russia-swift-sanctions-ukraine

Edited February 24, 2022 by TurkeyChew

[High Plains Drifter 11024]

1 hour ago, Hermanator said:

 Face it, we gave away any moral high ground when  Bush decimated the middle east and gave rise to ISIS. We are sitting this out the way Russia sat out our 20 years of playtime.

 

 

First sentence: I agree with the sentiment, but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't do anything now.

Second sentence: We are not "sitting out". We are and will bring sanctions that could devastate the Russian economy. Which, if the world follows our lead, would turn this quick tactical Russian victory into a strategic loss. I remind you that the USSR collapsed due to economic reasons, not military reasons. We've also provided military armaments, anti-tank missiles and such to Ukraine, despite Dotard's best efforts. The military armaments we provided to the Afghanis when Russia invaded Afghanistan were a large part of what turned that invasion into a shitshow.

Finally, Russia hasn't been sitting out for our 20 years of playtime. They have been engaging in cyberwarfare, disinformation, and who knows what else for that time.

 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

will a prolonged guerilla conflict ensue composed of fragments of the defeated Ukranian army? Will NATO supply weapons via neighboring states of Romania, Moldova, Poland, Slovakia and Hungary?  Will this go on for years? Nothing happened in Crimea but this feels different. 

[RomaVicta 29892]

9 hours ago, Zeus said:

Economic depression was coming, war is an easy sell with Democrats in office. Lock step the media and all the big corporations will push for war. 

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/joe-biden-wins-world-war-three/

20 year contacts all ran out in Afghanistan, time to write some new ones.

If you mean the Dems roll over when the GOPs get the urge to invade some faraway place, you're right. It's pitiful and revolting how they tried to fine-print their way out of their complicity in legitimizing the Iraq invasion. They couldn't have stopped it, but they could have voted principles and let the voters say what they will.

Fortunately, only a million or so people died mostly as collateral  damage that really isn't like we killed them at all. I mean, we didn't mean to. Let's all do a circle jerk to celebrate our self-absolution. Me absolvo. (Let's not talk about the cargo jets loaded with pallets of cash that no one accounted for. Oooops!)

The rest of what you write has the sickening ring of truth to it. U.S. Grant opens his autobiography describing how it's just about impossible to stop a political movement towards war. He wrote of the lead up to the Mexican War. It's the only part of the book that stood out to me.

But make no mistake, the GOP is the War Party. They generate the insecure adolescent inspiring rhetoric about our damaged pride, kicking bully's asses, not cutting and running, and having the courage to fight a war vicariously through the soldiers who actually carry the guns, take the physical cost, and pay a mental cost for the rest of their lives.

If they'd only improve the video quality of our precision missiles zooming towards the building that contains either a wedding, a farmer who looks like Osama, or maybe even the persons we've declared to be enemies.

 

[Nivek 16916]

44 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Jesus Christ, BBC article says Ukraine is already reporting 40+ dead soldiers and 10+ dead civilians.  

Not bad considering.  I wonder how many Russians casualties there are.

[DigglerontheHoof 21168]

bout tree fiddy

[Smax 3800]

Put me in the camp that we should be flying air support with our multi billion dollar fighters (f22 and f35) blowing everything out of the Ukranian airspace

[Goredho 17394]

Quote

“Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. ‘I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. ... We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy.”

 

Quote

 

"I have decided to conduct a special military operation," said Putin, seated at a desk in the Kremlin next to a battery of telephones, with the Russian flag behind him.

"Its goal is to protect people who have been subjected to bullying and genocide... for the last eight years. And for this we will strive for the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine.

 

So if Trump gets re-elected, how long until he sends peacekeeping forces to blue states to de-liberalize them?  I mean, is that really that far-fetched at this point?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13570]

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Quote

 

Meanwhile, more than a hundred municipal deputies from Moscow, St Petersburg, Samara, Ryazan and other cities have signed an open letter to the citizens of Russia, urging them not to take part or stay silent.

“We, the deputies elected by the people, unreservedly condemn the attack of the Russian army on Ukraine,” the letter reads. “This is an unparalleled atrocity for which there is and cannot be justification.”

Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny, who was appearing before a judge for contempt of court, took the opportunity to make a statement.

“I am against this war. I think this war is designed to divert attention from Russia’s problems, and it will only lead to greater impoverishment,” he said, before being interrupted by the judge. “I consider those who unleashed this war to be bandits and thieves.”

Large-scale protests are reportedly planned in several Russian cities later on Thursday, and social media images have showed an increased number of single-pickets across the country.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/no-choice-but-to-invade-ukraine-kremlin

That's some bravery.

[DDD Dad 14323]

15 minutes ago, Smax said:

Put me in the camp that we should be flying air support with our multi billion dollar fighters (f22 and f35) blowing everything out of the Ukranian airspace

[F250 28761]

2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

 

As much as Dubya and the Neoconservatives suck they don't kiss Russian ass like the new generation of conservatives. Granted, John Bolton would be planning tactical nuclear strikes or something nuts at this point.

 

[Hermanator 7031]

25 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

First sentence: I agree with the sentiment, but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't do anything now.

Second sentence: We are not "sitting out". We are and will bring sanctions that could devastate the Russian economy. Which, if the world follows our lead, would turn this quick tactical Russian victory into a strategic loss. I remind you that the USSR collapsed due to economic reasons, not military reasons. We've also provided military armaments, anti-tank missiles and such to Ukraine, despite Dotard's best efforts. The military armaments we provided to the Afghanis when Russia invaded Afghanistan were a large part of what turned that invasion into a shitshow.

Finally, Russia hasn't been sitting out for our 20 years of playtime. They have been engaging in cyberwarfare, disinformation, and who knows what else for that time.

 

I meant strictly in a military sense. Yes we will engage in sanctions (the degree to which we will stomach is questionable), but militarily we will sit on the sidelines and watch an Eastern European nation fall under Russian seige just as militarily Russia sat by and watched us turn the middle east into a giant shit show. 

My point was Bush's 20 year disaster in the middle east, the tribalization of our politics by the republican party/ trump, and our horrible fiscal policy since the beginning of the 21st century has eroded our ability to do much of anything here except watch and play footsie with economic sanctions that will harm the Russian people but do very little to Putin.

Add to that no country really trusts our word on anything anymore. Our democratic system of a new leader every 4/8 years combined with republican tribalism has made the US government bipolar and untrustworthy. Trump proved that whatever the US says today is probably going to be the exact opposite in a few years. 

Never meant we shouldn't do something. Just our horrible leadership of the last 21 years has us in a position to not be able to do much of anything meaningful. 

[Smax 3800]

Highly unlikely, putin is bully and no one has stood up to him. Sanctions are a joke and the laziest response "we" could do.

If russian planes and helicopters started dropping from the sky over Ukraine. I'd wager their advance stops immediately and dialog opens up.
You have to punch a bully in the face, its the only way they learn

[Longhorn_Fan68 33859]

4 minutes ago, Smax said:

Highly unlikely, putin is bully and no one has stood up to him. Sanctions are a joke and the laziest response "we" could do.

If russian planes and helicopters started dropping from the sky over Ukraine. I'd wager their advance stops immediately and dialog opens up.
You have to punch a bully in the face, its the only way they learn

If you read reports, that's already happening. Tanks too 

[Mo Horn 8817]

And more examples of how fucked as a nation. Here is one of the posts by someone on my Facebook feed

I do not believe Putin would have made this move with Trump in office.

I really want to respond with, then you're a fucking idiot, but don't want to engage. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

37 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

will a prolonged guerilla conflict ensue composed of fragments of the defeated Ukranian army? Will NATO supply weapons via neighboring states of Romania, Moldova, Poland, Slovakia and Hungary?  Will this go on for years? Nothing happened in Crimea but this feels different. 

Crimea is obviously much smaller and easier to secure.  It will be much easier to slip arms into larger Ukraine if that’s something we allow our 3 letter agencies to do. 

[Hermanator 7031]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

Was curious what would keep the US from painting drones in Ukrainian fashion and unleashing them on Russian forces right now? Does the internal makeup of the drones give away their American roots?

We have enough experience terrorizing Iraq and Afghanistan with them I don't see why we couldn't back Ukraine with an army of drone attacks. But again I know nothing of drone warfare so just asking what could be a dumb question.