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BehoId, The Underminer!

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LTbear

LTbear 4168

Posted
Posted
Just now, Mo Horn said:

And more examples of how fucked as a nation. Here is one of the posts by someone on my Facebook feed

I do not believe Putin would have made this move with Trump in office.

I really want to respond with, then you're a fucking idiot, but don't want to engage. 

Ask them to explain, seeing as Trump talks about Putin like a fangirl at an Elvis concert. 

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Horn Dog
Horn Dog

So our brain dead, demented president has managed to, without firing 1 shot, or risking 1 American life, and with the extremely limited tools at his disposal to respond to a mad man hell bent on irrat

BearSchlong
BearSchlong

The Biden 82nd airborne pizza eating photo? My son is in this photo.

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Mo Horn

Mo Horn 8825

Posted
Posted
Just now, LTbear said:

Ask them to explain, seeing as Trump talks about Putin like a fangirl at an Elvis concert. 

Again, I don't even want to engage. It's not worth my time and energy to try and talk to anyone who believes this. It has zero results. 

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tchookem

tchookem 3900

Posted
Posted
Putin blew up and full passenger plane and has murdered dozens of journalists in Russia and abroad. Why are conservatives supporting this murderous thug?
Because Americans they disagree with might be right about something and they can't bring themselves to admit it.
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TexArcher

TexArcher 37761

Posted
Posted (edited)

So, what is Putin's endgame here?

He obviously doesn't want Ukraine in NATO so close to Russia.  But if NATO were ever going to let Ukraine in, it would have been during this build-up.  So he could have accomplished that goal with a bluff.  And he invaded anyway.

And he's not just taking the "separatist regions" in Ukraine's east.  That alone would've given him more of a buffer, if that were really all he wanted.

No, this is a full-scale invasion.  It looks like he's going to take all of Ukraine.  And he's using his proxy Belarus to make it a multi-national invasion.  Cruise missiles are hitting the capital of a European country, for fuck's sake.  

And after Ukraine falls, then what?

Is he going to round up Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and the others?  Put the whole band back together?

Or is it going to be worse than that?  Is this his Sudetenland move?

I honestly have no idea.  I think we all knew something was coming, but this feels really big, really consequential and probably beyond Ukraine.

Any reasonable speculation out there?

Edited by TexArcher
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18847

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

So, what is Putin's endgame here?

He obviously doesn't want Ukraine in NATO so close to Russia.  But if NATO were ever going to let Ukraine in, it would have been during this build-up.  So he could have accomplished that goal with a bluff.  And he invaded anyway.

And he's not just taking the "separatist regions" in Ukraine's east.  That alone would've given him more of a buffer, if that were really all he wanted.

No, this is a full-scale invasion.  It looks like he's going to take all of Ukraine.  And he's using his proxy Belarus to make it a multi-national invasion.  Cruise missiles are hitting the capital of a European country, for fuck's sake.  

And after Ukraine falls, then what?

Is he going to round up Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and the others?  Put the whole band back together?

Or is it going to be worse than that?  Is this his Sudetenland move?

I honestly have no idea?  Any reasonable speculation out there?

No, he will not be invading NATO member states.

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Zeus

Zeus 6012

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

If you mean the Dems roll over when the GOPs get the urge to invade some faraway place, you're right. It's pitiful and revolting how they tried to fine-print their way out of their complicity in legitimizing the Iraq invasion. They couldn't have stopped it, but they could have voted principles and let the voters say what they will.

Fortunately, only a million or so people died mostly as collateral  damage that really isn't like we killed them at all. I mean, we didn't mean to. Let's all do a circle jerk to celebrate our self-absolution. Me absolvo. (Let's not talk about the cargo jets loaded with pallets of cash that no one accounted for. Oooops!)

The rest of what you write has the sickening ring of truth to it. U.S. Grant opens his autobiography describing how it's just about impossible to stop a political movement towards war. He wrote of the lead up to the Mexican War. It's the only part of the book that stood out to me.

But make no mistake, the GOP is the War Party. They generate the insecure adolescent inspiring rhetoric about our damaged pride, kicking bully's asses, not cutting and running, and having the courage to fight a war vicariously through the soldiers who actually carry the guns, take the physical cost, and pay a mental cost for the rest of their lives.

If they'd only improve the video quality of our precision missiles zooming towards the building that contains either a wedding, a farmer who looks like Osama, or maybe even the persons we've declared to be enemies.

 

I'm not saying the GOP isn't the war party, I'm just saying it's easier to sell a war when Democrats are in office. Politics is theater to get people to fight with each other while the uniparty does whatever it's going to do. They are both the war party. All politicians are liers, they say what they think is popular but they do what they are told by party leadership. 

Nobody made a peep about Libya, Yemen, Somalia, or Syria during the Obomba years. 

Nobody even made a peep about the successful righteous hellfire missile strike that actually killed an innocent man and 7 kids.

Quote

The Pentagon initially said the strike was a successful mission to prevent another bombing of the Kabul airport after 13 US service members and at least 169 Afghans died in a suspected ISIS suicide attack on Aug. 26.

Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, had staunchly defended the drone strike three days after it occurred, saying, “the procedures were correctly followed and it was a righteous strike.”

 

 

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37761

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

No, he will not be invading NATO member states.

I don't think so, either, but I don't know that we can rule it out.

The question I can't stop asking myself is: Why is Ukraine such a prize that Putin would do this and then be satisfied and stop?

And I can't really think of a good answer.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18847

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I don't think so, either, but I don't know that we can rule it out.

The question I can't stop asking myself is: Why is Ukraine such a prize that Putin would do this and then be satisfied and stop?

And I can't really think of a good answer.

Ukraine wants to join the club of liberal democracies. That is a threat to Russian authoritarianism. This invasion and any resulting puppet state is an effort to stop democracy from taking root in Russia.

Edited by David Dennison
And also what Zeus said below.
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Zeus

Zeus 6012

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

So, what is Putin's endgame here?

He obviously doesn't want Ukraine in NATO so close to Russia.  But if NATO were ever going to let Ukraine in, it would have been during this build-up.  So he could have accomplished that goal with a bluff.  And he invaded anyway.

And he's not just taking the "separatist regions" in Ukraine's east.  That alone would've given him more of a buffer, if that were really all he wanted.

No, this is a full-scale invasion.  It looks like he's going to take all of Ukraine.  And he's using his proxy Belarus to make it a multi-national invasion.  Cruise missiles are hitting the capital of a European country, for fuck's sake.  

And after Ukraine falls, then what?

Is he going to round up Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and the others?  Put the whole band back together?

Or is it going to be worse than that?  Is this his Sudetenland move?

I honestly have no idea.  I think we all knew something was coming, but this feels really big, really consequential and probably beyond Ukraine.

Any reasonable speculation out there?

It's pretty simple. Euroop needs natural gas, Russia sells it to them. Nord Stream 2 will make it easier to slip though Ukraine to sell it cheaper. CIA no likey

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news/card/what-is-the-nord-stream-2-pipeline--0AU1wDRPbeps3RfHyDs0

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BehoId, The Underminer!

BehoId, The Underminer! 11669

Posted
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Posted
11 minutes ago, Burt said:

Is that real? Being a rational human I'd say no. But then again, we're talking about east Texas Trump country where anything absurd is possible. 

 

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

Yes.  They withdrew it, but genie was out of the bottle.

i googled the story and the newspaper claimed it was a joke that leaked out, which sounds plausible.  someone did a preview of the paper with the paper with the caption "supporters of president donald trump climb the west wall . . ."  someone else added the first five words "antifa members dress up as supporters of president donald trump climb the west wall" and circulate it internally for lulz to mock the mouthbreathers they live around.  the wrong one got sent to the printing press.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18847

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Zeus said:

CIA puppet democracy? 

Ukraine is corrupt as hell brah

In whose sphere of influence would you rather them be corrupt? Ours, where Europe and the United States can at least water the seeds of liberal democracy, or their overtly authoritarian Russian neighbor where liberal democracy dies in the ground?

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37761

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Zeus said:

It's pretty simple. Euroop needs natural gas, Russia sells it to them. Nord Stream 2 will make it easier to slip though Ukraine to sell it cheaper. CIA no likey

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news/card/what-is-the-nord-stream-2-pipeline--0AU1wDRPbeps3RfHyDs0

Are you suggesting that Russia is doing this to force Germany to get that pipeline going?

Because it seems to have had the opposite effect.  The pipeline is leverage for our side, not his.  He can't force anyone to use the damned thing.

Or are you suggesting that he's invading because Germany put a halt on the pipeline last fall and now he just wants to control Ukraine instead of trying to bypass it with the pipeline?

Either way, natural gas exports are a factor here, but they're surely not the only one.

Edited by TexArcher
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Zeus

Zeus 6012

Posted
Posted
Just now, David Dennison said:

In whose sphere of influence would you rather them be corrupt? Ours, where Europe and the United States can at least water the seeds of liberal democracy, or their overtly authoritarian Russian neighbor where liberal democracy dies in the ground?

You think American control will grant them some sort of utopia? I'd rather them not be a political puppet at all. What strategic national US interests are in Ukraine? Why would the US government need to go to war to keep control of Ukraine?

Right now the American war machine is gearing up to blow the fuck out of them so I'm sure they are super excited for their liberal democracy seeds to be watered. 

 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29344

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

It’s funny Republicans are trying to blame Biden where there are literal receipts of them acting against NATO and Ukraine 

This is all just gaslighting 

Russia is launching air strikes against residential neighborhoods right now and Zeus is pretending like we're about to invade Ukraine. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31438

Posted
Posted

It may well be true that Putin wouldn't have attempted this with Trump in office.  

Simply because Trump was already a destablizing force here and in Europe and among world organizations.

Now that things are somewhat returning to normal, he felt the time right to wag the dog and take a shit in the wests' punchbowl.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18847

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Zeus said:

You think American control will grant them some sort of utopia? I'd rather them not be a political puppet at all. What strategic national US interests are in Ukraine? Why would the US government need to go to war to keep control of Ukraine?

Right now the American war machine is gearing up to blow the fuck out of them so I'm sure they are super excited for their liberal democracy seeds to be watered. 

 

Well, it's right next door to our largest global adversary; it connects western Europe to Asia; it's on the Black sea (along with a few NATO members), which is connected to the Mediterranean Sea, which is connected to the Red Sea, which is connected to the Indian Ocean . . . little things like that. 

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'stache

'stache 21795

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

It may well be true that Putin wouldn't have attempted this with Trump in office.  

Simply because Trump was already a destablizing force here and in Europe and among world organizations.

Now that things are somewhat returning to normal, he felt the time right to wag the dog and take a shit in the wests' punchbowl.

He also had trump successfully fucking with Ukraine on his behalf and was hoping for reelection. Since that didn't happen, it was time for him to do this, which might also result in the return of his orange puppet, because he knows half of our electorate has lost its fucking mind.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29344

Posted
Posted

I think Putin would've been even more likely to do this had Trump won reelection. He's been planning it for years. His express ambition is to retake the parts of the Russian empire he thinks they wrongly gave up. He's hardly made it a secret.

Had Trump won reelection, what probably would've happened is that Trump would've pretended to hold some big negotiation with Putin in which he agreed to give Putin most of Ukraine, which Ukraine obviously would not have been down for. So Putin would've invaded after Ukraine rejected the proposal and Trump would've blamed it all on Ukraine, praised Putin for doing what he "needed to do," and hampered any efforts to build an international coalition to punish Russia. 

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18003

Posted
Posted
As much as Dubya and the Neoconservatives suck they don't kiss Russian ass like the new generation of conservatives. Granted, John Bolton would be planning tactical nuclear strikes or something nuts at this point.
 

Guaranteed he’s already nutted at least a dozen times to missile strike footage.
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C-Man

C-Man 27184

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Here’s to hoping Putin finds a high window to fall out of today. 

I saw we work up a SEAL Team #6 on the KGB thug.

Then we all have a great time at the SEAL Team #6 dance after.

 

 

(I say this knowing full well there is no way any SEAL team gets anywhere close enough to Putin to execute such plan. I'll settle for a missile strike on his dacha.)

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6160

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

So, what is Putin's endgame here?

He obviously doesn't want Ukraine in NATO so close to Russia.  But if NATO were ever going to let Ukraine in, it would have been during this build-up.  So he could have accomplished that goal with a bluff.  And he invaded anyway.

And he's not just taking the "separatist regions" in Ukraine's east.  That alone would've given him more of a buffer, if that were really all he wanted.

No, this is a full-scale invasion.  It looks like he's going to take all of Ukraine.  And he's using his proxy Belarus to make it a multi-national invasion.  Cruise missiles are hitting the capital of a European country, for fuck's sake.  

And after Ukraine falls, then what?

Is he going to round up Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and the others?  Put the whole band back together?

Or is it going to be worse than that?  Is this his Sudetenland move?

I honestly have no idea.  I think we all knew something was coming, but this feels really big, really consequential and probably beyond Ukraine.

Any reasonable speculation out there?

Is he stopping at Ukraine? I have my doubts. However, he is going to need his friends in China to join if he really wants to go further than Ukraine. That seems highly unlikely that they would also make themselves an international pariah, even with their own imperialist ideas.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31438

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think Putin would've been even more likely to do this had Trump won reelection. He's been planning it for years. His express ambition is to retake the parts of the Russian empire he thinks they wrongly gave up. He's hardly made it a secret.

Had Trump won reelection, what probably would've happened is that Trump would've pretended to hold some big negotiation with Putin in which he agreed to give Putin most of Ukraine, which Ukraine obviously would not have been down for. So Putin would've invaded after Ukraine rejected the proposal and Trump would've blamed it all on Ukraine, praised Putin for doing what he "needed to do," and hampered any efforts to build an international coalition to punish Russia. 

Oh yeah, I can buy that, for sure.  A second-term Trump is a whole different deal.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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elfenix

elfenix 34223

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Nobody even made a peep about the successful righteous hellfire missile strike that actually killed an innocent man and 7 kids.

 

 

zeus: no one made a peep about the biden admin blasting an aid worker

also zeus: here's the new york times telling everyone how the biden admin blasted an aid worker

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8712

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Explain

To begin: “Unfortunately, 2 straight decades of invading sovereign middle eastern nations doesn't give the US any real leg to stand on to criticize this too harshly and be taken seriously by anyone else in the world. ” This just isn’t true or reflective of what’s happened in the last couple weeks. The US has successfully rallied a strong international response and helped the world see Putin’s thinly veiled pretexts for invasion as total bullshit. This isn’t equivalent to the US war on terror or justifications for force in the Middle East, and our past two decades doesn’t harm our ability to stand fast when a murderous dictator attempts to invade a sovereign European democracy in violation of treaties Russia signed as well as international law. War crimes are just wholly and fundamentally different beasts, and suggesting the international community doesn’t take the US seriously is fantasy level poop. 
 

And I don’t have enough time or patience to teach you history or political science to show you how wrong this statement is: “Although there's zero doubt in my mind that nukes are the only thing that's kept another world war or 2 from happening between 1945 and now. ”

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Smax

Smax 3800

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

no, perhaps I misread your post. Ukraine is acknowledging several down aircraft and some tanks. if that's not what you were talking about, carry on

 

Yean I think you may have, I was saying if we had F22's and F35's flying air superiority over Ukraine and Russian planes, helicopters and tanks start going poof at an alarming rate. Putin would be open to dialogue IMO, he doesn't want a nuclear war, he wants the old soviet union territory back 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18847

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Smax said:

 

Yean I think you may have, I was saying if we had F22's and F35's flying air superiority over Ukraine and Russian planes, helicopters and tanks start going poof at an alarming rate. Putin would be open to dialogue IMO, he doesn't want a nuclear war, he wants the old soviet union territory back 

The problem with that is some of our F-22s and F-35s would start going poof, too.

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