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Horn Dog
Horn Dog

So our brain dead, demented president has managed to, without firing 1 shot, or risking 1 American life, and with the extremely limited tools at his disposal to respond to a mad man hell bent on irrat

BearSchlong
BearSchlong

The Biden 82nd airborne pizza eating photo? My son is in this photo.

cactusflinthead
cactusflinthead

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17522

Posted
Posted
Just now, Pig Bellmont said:

“She says that the Russian troops apparently had been unaware they were being sent to kill Ukrainians.”

Suuuuuuuuuuuuure. “Oh my god - wait is this Ukraine? Wow, what a mix up. Please don’t prosecute me for war crimes or killing civilians”

Given that we've seen some videos of rocket fire into civilian areas, he could be talking about orders to actually kill civilians. But, yes, it is most likely bullshit. 

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C-Man

C-Man 27184

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

So, what is Putin's endgame here?

He obviously doesn't want Ukraine in NATO so close to Russia.  But if NATO were ever going to let Ukraine in, it would have been during this build-up.  So he could have accomplished that goal with a bluff.  And he invaded anyway.

And he's not just taking the "separatist regions" in Ukraine's east.  That alone would've given him more of a buffer, if that were really all he wanted.

No, this is a full-scale invasion.  It looks like he's going to take all of Ukraine.  And he's using his proxy Belarus to make it a multi-national invasion.  Cruise missiles are hitting the capital of a European country, for fuck's sake.  

And after Ukraine falls, then what?

Is he going to round up Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and the others?  Put the whole band back together?

Or is it going to be worse than that?  Is this his Sudetenland move?

I honestly have no idea.  I think we all knew something was coming, but this feels really big, really consequential and probably beyond Ukraine.

Any reasonable speculation out there?

 

45 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I don't think so, either, but I don't know that we can rule it out.

The question I can't stop asking myself is: Why is Ukraine such a prize that Putin would do this and then be satisfied and stop?

And I can't really think of a good answer.

Smart former S-T colleague says a big part of Putin's invasion of Ukraine is for their grain resources (wheat, corn, soybean). He says Putin remembers that Russians overthrew the former Soviet Union because for all its military might, it could not adequately feed them. Says Putin has fed them better than before but Ukraine will give them a huge cushion.

(Or it could just be that Putin is just a crazy, fucking gangster.)

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C-Man

C-Man 27184

Posted
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

So Russian troops just drove into Ukraine on vacation?

 

32 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

“She says that the Russian troops apparently had been unaware they were being sent to kill Ukrainians.”

Suuuuuuuuuuuuure. “Oh my god - wait is this Ukraine? Wow, what a mix up. Please don’t prosecute me for war crimes or killing civilians”

"Where the fuck's my truck?!?!?!"

581ce33c-65fe-4d34-9c37-18232b945092_scr

Edited by C-Man
Edited to add the screencap that I forgot!
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Hermanator

Hermanator 7032

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

To begin: “Unfortunately, 2 straight decades of invading sovereign middle eastern nations doesn't give the US any real leg to stand on to criticize this too harshly and be taken seriously by anyone else in the world. ” This just isn’t true or reflective of what’s happened in the last couple weeks. The US has successfully rallied a strong international response and helped the world see Putin’s thinly veiled pretexts for invasion as total bullshit. This isn’t equivalent to the US war on terror or justifications for force in the Middle East, and our past two decades doesn’t harm our ability to stand fast when a murderous dictator attempts to invade a sovereign European democracy in violation of treaties Russia signed as well as international law. War crimes are just wholly and fundamentally different beasts, and suggesting the international community doesn’t take the US seriously is fantasy level poop. 
 

And I don’t have enough time or patience to teach you history or political science to show you how wrong this statement is: “Although there's zero doubt in my mind that nukes are the only thing that's kept another world war or 2 from happening between 1945 and now. ”

I already addressed the first part earlier. We've weakened ourselves with tribal politics, poor fiscal policy, and bipolar leadership stemming from republican tribalism to the point we don't command the respect and belief we once did. Not even close. 

On the 2nd part, do you really believe if the only difference in WW2 is we never invented nukes, and no one else has either, that we wouldn't have had another world war in the last 80 years? 

The condescension is unnecessary. You don't have anything to teach. Just an opinion to spew forth.  

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29900

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I think this is where the rubber meets the road.  I think everyone is going to have some pain if you want to put Russia down, which is what is needed.  Obviously, the thread of sanctions wasn't enough. He invaded anyway.  We are in a very different place today vs. a few days ago.  The sanctions now must be debilitating, otherwise, they are meaningless and sanctions will never act as a deterrent ever again.

My friend, sanctions almost never work. They certainly won't have impact to halt an invasion in real time. Multi-billionaires can wait out a temporary or even permanent cash flow problem.

Already I've read about the West having "the spine," and your notion of rubber meeting the road. Others have already leapt to comparing this potential conflict with fucking WWII. A-fucking-gain! Hell, we didn't even enter that war because of Hitler; we got attacked and then Germany declared war on the US. It wasn't a moral jihad to save the Jews although I'm glad we did so.

I hate this kind of language in a war policy discussion. It's a time for pragmatism not schoolyard sentiment about standing up to bullies. 

What is in the best long term interest of the United States?

Proving (yet again) that we're tough doesn't answer that question sufficiently. What interest is served in ordering Americans other than me to bleed for? What amount of money will I prioritize over other concerns to engage in a war?

I'm all for arming and helping Ukraine. I'm all for arming and equipping any voluteers who want to go fight there. I'm all for bleeding the Soviet Union Russia white.

I'm not all in on doing whatever it takes to save Ukraine. It's a lovely sentiment that I suppress in myself. Every problem does not have a favorable solution. Frankly, I'm relieved that Ukraine was not part of the NATO over-expansion. 

I've seen the profoundly idiotic process of America going to war followed by a general realization that it was a bad idea too many times already. What the hell were the Marines doing in Lebanon with orders not to shoot? What the hell are we doing invading Iraq? 

For just once, I'd like to see us spend just a little more time talking reality about conflict instead of yielding to emotion.

A note: I'm no pacifist. I'm fine with smashing anyone or any country posing a physical threat to the US. I just don't like to see war carried out for entertainment purposes or to make the boys at home feel better about their manhood as they watch on TV.

 

Edited by RomaVicta
Remove errant phrase from bottom
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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8712

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

I already addressed the first part earlier. We've weakened ourselves with tribal politics, poor fiscal policy, and bipolar leadership stemming from republican tribalism to the point we don't command the respect and belief we once did. Not even close. 

On the 2nd part, do you really believe if the only difference in WW2 is we never invented nukes, and no one else has either, that we wouldn't have had another world war in the last 80 years? 

The condescension is unnecessary. You don't have anything to teach. Just an opinion to spew forth.  

Ok, professor 

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burntorangebongos

burntorangebongos 10710

Posted
Posted (edited)

I was listening to NPR this morning and some Russian official was on blaming Europe for their move. He kept cussing and the host asked him to stop. I started yelling at my radio....and that’s why I can't watch horror movies at theaters. 

Just as enraging as listening to a wife beater blame his wife for the beat down. Fuck your low class ass, Russia. 

Edited by burntorangebongos
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Bullneck

Bullneck 19070

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Smax said:

Highly unlikely, putin is bully and no one has stood up to him. Sanctions are a joke and the laziest response "we" could do.

If russian planes and helicopters started dropping from the sky over Ukraine. I'd wager their advance stops immediately and dialog opens up.
You have to punch a bully in the face, its the only way they learn

"Lazy."  

This topic might be over your head.

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Nivek

Nivek 16916

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Zeus said:

CIA puppet democracy? 

Ukraine is corrupt as hell brah

Hi GRU-Horn/DSA,  

How are you doing?  Nice to see that you think so highly of us to return.  It seems though your name is a little bit off and I hope your bosses do not see our correspondence otherwise you might want to stay clear of those windows on the other side of the world.  I hear they can be a bit tricky.   I am glad to see that the best and brightest are not in your military, they seem rather pathetic already failing and mounting so many casualties, and that mass surrender.  Hysterical.  Maybe they should be given more Vodka before the fight to increase their fighting spirit.   Actually, I am glad Putin is kind of a manlet wimp, otherwise he might form up his troops into the old British/French line fighting strategy which would terrorize the Ukrainians.   

Anyway, have fun with the inflation, keep buying electronics instead of holding that currency.  

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4814

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

^Buzzfeed news reporter

It is great that the Ukrainian people are fighting for their freedom against a regime intent on enslaving them again.  I would say communist, but that doesn't define Russia anymore.   What is interesting is that our fellow countrymen who rant and rave about civil wars and 2A rights are on the wrong side of this, supporting the oppressors.  Thing is over there, the oppressors are like them, over here, the supposed oppressors are libtards.  

1 hour ago, Mo Horn said:

And more examples of how fucked as a nation. Here is one of the posts by someone on my Facebook feed

I do not believe Putin would have made this move with Trump in office.

I really want to respond with, then you're a fucking idiot, but don't want to engage. 

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

It may well be true that Putin wouldn't have attempted this with Trump in office.  

Simply because Trump was already a destablizing force here and in Europe and among world organizations.

Now that things are somewhat returning to normal, he felt the time right to wag the dog and take a shit in the wests' punchbowl.

Each time Putin does this, he does it to stir the pot and make his opposition look weaker (be they internal or external) and himself look like the worldbeater.  He didn't invade Ukraine because he was too busy invading the US.  He nearly succeeded too, but he got foiled by that rigged election.

 

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Blotto

Blotto 23487

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Zeus said:

It's pretty simple. Euroop needs natural gas, Russia sells it to them. Nord Stream 2 will make it easier to slip though Ukraine to sell it cheaper. CIA no likey

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news/card/what-is-the-nord-stream-2-pipeline--0AU1wDRPbeps3RfHyDs0

Today Russia provides gas to Germany and the rest of Europe through a pipeline that runs through the Ukraine. Nord Stream 2 is a pipeline that bypasses the Ukraine allowing Russia to send gas to Europe directly  While the current administration generally opposed NS2 as it weakens the Ukraine's hand, they did Germany a solid and allowed it to proceed. 

So walk me through your point above. How could the end game of the Russian invasion be the NS2 pipeline, when Biden and Germany explicitly said they would kill the project if Russia didnt stop fucking with Ukraine, and they ultimately did kill it for that reason. Wouldn't it have just been easier to not fuck with Ukraine and just use the NS2 pipeline if that was the end game? 

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Starfleet Command

Starfleet Command 441

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

My friend, sanctions almost never work. They certainly won't have impact to halt an invasion in real time. Multi-billionaires can wait out a temporary or even permanent cash flow problem.

Already I've read about the West having "the spine," and your notion of rubber meeting the road. Others have already leapt to comparing this potential conflict with fucking WWII. A-fucking-gain! Hell, we didn't even enter that war because of Hitler; we got attacked and then Germany declared war on the US. It wasn't a moral jihad to save the Jews although I'm glad we did so.

I hate this kind of language in a war policy discussion. It's a time for pragmatism not schoolyard sentiment about standing up to bullies. 

What is in the best long term interest of the United States?

Proving (yet again) that we're tough doesn't answer that question sufficiently. What interest is served in ordering Americans other than me to bleed for? What amount of money will I prioritize over other concerns to engage in a war?

I'm all for arming and helping Ukraine. I'm all for arming and equipping any voluteers who want to go fight there. I'm all for bleeding the Soviet Union Russia white.

I'm not all in on doing whatever it takes to save Ukraine. It's a lovely sentiment that I suppress in myself. Every problem does not have a favorable solution. Frankly, I'm relieved that Ukraine was not part of the NATO over-expansion. 

I've seen the profoundly idiotic process of America going to war followed by a general realization that it was a bad idea too many times already. What the hell were the Marines doing in Lebanon with orders not to shoot? What the hell are we doing invading Iraq? 

For just once, I'd like to see us spend just a little more time talking reality about conflict instead of yielding to emotion.

A note: I'm no pacifist. I'm fine with smashing anyone or any country posing a physical threat to the US. I just don't like to see war carried out for entertainment purposes or to make the boys at home feel better about their manhood as they watch on TV.

 

 

Emotion is used to drum up support for a war and sometimes c

Part of me thinks that the reason the US has emboldened Ukraine and refused to accept Russia's one non-negotiable ask (Ukraine never to be permitted entry to NATO) is that the US wanted Russia to do what it's doing now.  Separating Russia from Western Europe economically could be very good for US hydrocarbon producers in the long-run.  

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6160

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, C-Man said:

UEFA has pulled the Champions League final from St Petersburg. That should show Putin. LOL

I was honestly shocked they’d do it, but it’s mostly inconsequential to do so. The better move would be to remove the Russian clubs from UEFA. Not that they are all that successful in the CL or Europa, but just remove them all. That’s about as much as they can do.

It would be nice if Russia was just banned entirely from any international sports leagues as well as competitions going forward. Authoritarians love using sports to promote the agenda. It isn’t going to stop this crazy man from what he’s doing, but it would be the right thing to do.

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 11026

Posted
Posted

 

55 minutes ago, Smax said:

 

Yean I think you may have, I was saying if we had F22's and F35's flying air superiority over Ukraine and Russian planes, helicopters and tanks start going poof at an alarming rate. Putin would be open to dialogue IMO, he doesn't want a nuclear war, he wants the old soviet union territory back 

 

 

At some point in recent history, Putin stopped being rational. You can't assume an irrational madman (and that is what Putin has become) will do the rational thing.

 

 

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37761

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

 

At some point in recent history, Putin stopped being rational. You can't assume an irrational madman (and that is what Putin has become) will do the rational thing.

 

 

This possibility concerns me.

Can we rule out that Putin is just an aging narcissist who's losing his grip, and who remembers watching the Soviet Union be ripped apart as a young KGB officer, and who now just wants some revenge and doesn't really give a shit about the consequences?

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Captainant

Captainant 27625

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

I was listening to NPR this morning and some Russian official was on blaming Europe for their move. He kept cussing and the host asked him to stop. I started yelling at my radio....and that’s why I can't watch horror movies at theaters

Reminds me of trump surrogates in interviews, press events, and congressional hearings. Just filibustering the conversation and ignoring objective truth.

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Starfleet Command

Starfleet Command 441

Posted
Posted

It's still unclear, imo, if Putin is seeking regime change in Ukraine.  That would seem to be highly irrational.  They could leave the regime intact and this could instead be a mafia-like way of sending a message to Ukraine and other Eastern European states that seeking admission to NATO is a very, very bad idea.  That seems more or less rational from Russia's perspective.  Imagine if Canada or Mexico sought entry into a military alliance with Russia or China in which, if attacked, Russia/China would be obligated to respond.   Do you think the US wouldn't resort to shock-and-awe tactics to avoid that outcome?  

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37761

Posted
Posted

China weighs in.......

Quote

BEIJING, Feb 24 (Reuters) - China rejected calling Russia's moves on Ukraine an "invasion" and urged all sides to exercise restraint on Thursday, even as it advised its citizens there to stay home.

Ukrainian forces battled Russian invaders on three sides on Thursday after Moscow mounted an assault on Ukraine by land, sea and air in the biggest attack on a European state since World War Two. read more

"China is closely monitoring the latest situation. We call on all sides to exercise restraint to prevent the situation from getting out of control," China's foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said.

 

At a packed daily media briefing in Beijing, Hua bridled at journalists' characterisation of Russia's actions.

"This is perhaps a difference between China and you Westerners. We won't go rushing to a conclusion," she said.

"Regarding the definition of an invasion, I think we should go back to how to view the current situation in Ukraine. The Ukrainian issue has other very complicated historical background that has continued to today. It may not be what everyone wants to see."

 

The ministry said later that senior diplomat Wang Yi, also China's foreign minister, had spoken with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov.

Wang said that the Ukraine issue had a "complex" history and reiterated that China understands what it called Russia's "legitimate concerns" on security, China's foreign ministry said.

 

China rejects calling Russia move 'invasion,' urges citizens in Ukraine to stay home | Reuters

 

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15040

Posted
Posted

Given the threat of nuclear weapons the only way for the US to really stop Russia from taking over other former USSR holdings is to either get China opposing it aggressively with us and Europe, or initiating a clandestine operation to identify replacement leaders in Russia that would be willing to sell out Putin in exchange for recognizing them as the new leaders when Putin is assassinated. I vote number two. 

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8712

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Given the threat of nuclear weapons the only way for the US to really stop Russia from taking over other former USSR holdings is to either get China opposing it aggressively with us and Europe, or initiating a clandestine operation to identify replacement leaders in Russia that would be willing to sell out Putin in exchange for recognizing them as the new leaders when Putin is assassinated. I vote number two. 

Our record of successfully assassinating leaders and installing pro-US regimes is… not great. 

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C-Man

C-Man 27184

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I was honestly shocked they’d do it, but it’s mostly inconsequential to do so. The better move would be to remove the Russian clubs from UEFA. Not that they are all that successful in the CL or Europa, but just remove them all. That’s about as much as they can do.

It would be nice if Russia was just banned entirely from any international sports leagues as well as competitions going forward. Authoritarians love using sports to promote the agenda. It isn’t going to stop this crazy man from what he’s doing, but it would be the right thing to do.

Agreed. Just boot them out of all the Olympic Games. They're dirty AF anyways.

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