Ukraine War

[Horn Dog 9818]

8 hours ago, F250 said:

My guess is that the U.S. is telling Poland to STFU. Poland didn't need to announce that to the world and then say "hot potato" and toss it in our lap.

The U.S. does appear to be sticking to the proxy war playbook to provide cover but in the era of the internet everyone wants a fucking play by play announcement.

This is probably the situation.  We were working if getting them the jets quietly, then suddenly Poland announces some shit trying to look like heroes and stuck us with the bill.

What I don’t understand is how Russia/Soviets were able to supply our enemies with all sorts of weaponry, including MIGs to fight our service men all over the planet, yet we can’t do this cause it crosses some line. Also why is this any different then suppling any other arms like missiles?   We take the “trade in” of the MIGs from Poland for a order of F-16s, put the MIGs on our used lot, and oh look we have a buyer..Ukraine, and we are offering fantastic zero down financing with $1 monthly payments.  What?  Russia is unhappy with our sale?   Get fucked assholes….this is business and you have done it repeatedly in the past.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2830]

8 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Did they include counseling and blankets?

Would think that charitable recommendations would include food and other services as well.  I don't think there is a link to being charitable in peacetime to a strong foreign policy.  But then again, you may think Trump is the epitome of strength.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2830]

 

30 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I have flat feet, I’m asthmatic, I have bad knees and a bum shoulder. I haven’t shot a gun since my Daisy BB gun when I was about 10 years old. The thought that if I was Ukrainian I could be forced to stay in the country and fight scares me. I could do things to help. I could cook. I could clean. I could help render medical aid. But putting me on the front line would just make me cannon fodder and would be a waste of a gun. But if I could kill just two Russian invaders before they killed me then I would die a happy man. 

Yeah, it would be icing on the cake to take one out, but I'd just be happy doing the Lonesome Dove wave whenever I got sent out on patrol, just to get a chuckle out of the guys.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2830]

8 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

You want to play that game?   Okay.

NUKES NOW!!

That's the sum of your logic.

Thousands, consequently millions.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

19 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

What I don’t understand is how Russia/Soviets were able to supply our enemies with all sorts of weaponry, including MIGs to fight our service men all over the planet, yet we can’t do this cause it crosses some line.

A difference is this is not a proxy war like Vietnam or Korea. This is THE Russian military on the battlefield in person. It’s more akin to their Afghanistan excursion in the 1980s and we appear to be approaching it as such. 

[immamac 42839]

28 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

This is probably the situation.  We were working if getting them the jets quietly, then suddenly Poland announces some shit trying to look like heroes and stuck us with the bill.

What I don’t understand is how Russia/Soviets were able to supply our enemies with all sorts of weaponry, including MIGs to fight our service men all over the planet, yet we can’t do this cause it crosses some line. Also why is this any different then suppling any other arms like missiles?   We take the “trade in” of the MIGs from Poland for a order of F-16s, put the MIGs on our used lot, and oh look we have a buyer..Ukraine, and we are offering fantastic zero down financing with $1 monthly payments.  What?  Russia is unhappy with our sale?   Get fucked assholes….this is business and you have done it repeatedly in the past.

It's not the financing it's the logistics. You can't start a fighter jet mission in the air it's from takeoff. If you takeoff from NATO territory it's a NATO sanctioned attack. Why is this so hard to understand. The plane doesn't have a "lolnoguns" transport mode and even if it did it would be dumber than fuck to fly it that way to Ukraine.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

57 minutes ago, Woodrow Call said:

If I could get there, I would. Even at age 59. 

Why can't you get there?  Just get to Prague or Warsaw and then start taking trains east. 

 

46 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I have flat feet, I’m asthmatic, I have bad knees and a bum shoulder. I haven’t shot a gun since my Daisy BB gun when I was about 10 years old. The thought that if I was Ukrainian I could be forced to stay in the country and fight scares me. I could do things to help. I could cook. I could clean. I could help render medical aid. But putting me on the front line would just make me cannon fodder and would be a waste of a gun. But if I could kill just two Russian invaders before they killed me then I would die a happy man. 

You can go over there and volunteer in support. I am sure there is a job waiting for you. You'd be paid minimally if at all and live in a dorm but you'd be doing your part. You don't have to be a frontline soldier in the legion of veterans. You might not get to personally kill two Russians but you might enable others to kill many more.

If you really, really want to go, there is no excuse for you not to. I say this as someone who deeply regrets not having served America in even stupid wars. My excuses were the same. But I didn't believe in those wars with anything like the fervor some of you on here do; aside from Afghanistan, we've not had a single semi-legit reason to invade any of these countries, and even then, we invaded the wrong fucking country. Twice. We should have just melted down the Saudi leadership and called it a day instead of wasting 20 years at war. 

But I digress. Talk is cheap. 

 

[Pancho 44757]

 

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

So all we need to do is find the closest airport to the Ukraine border. Then we have the Ukraine farmer army tow the Migs across the border?

[Woodrow Call 494]

18 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Why can't you get there?  Just get to Prague or Warsaw and then start taking trains east. 

 

You can go over there and volunteer in support. I am sure there is a job waiting for you. You'd be paid minimally if at all and live in a dorm but you'd be doing your part. You don't have to be a frontline soldier in the legion of veterans. You might not get to personally kill two Russians but you might enable others to kill many more.

If you really, really want to go, there is no excuse for you not to. I say this as someone who deeply regrets not having served America in even stupid wars. My excuses were the same. But I didn't believe in those wars with anything like the fervor some of you on here do; aside from Afghanistan, we've not had a single semi-legit reason to invade any of these countries, and even then, we invaded the wrong fucking country. Twice. We should have just melted down the Saudi leadership and called it a day instead of wasting 20 years at war. 

But I digress. Talk is cheap. 

 

Well, my wife is terminally ill, so when she dies, I will. 

[Anastasis 23469]

17 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

 

 

God damnit this is so fucked up. 

[F250 28767]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

I don't know about that.  I tend to describe things in terms of what they are not what they pretend they are.  If we use just use the titles, than North Korea is a Democratic Republic because that is what they call themselves, even though their government is most assuredly despotic.  

Why do you think they are not communist? Because they don't follow the Soviet model?

[Homercles 10205]

Yes you can take the wings off a MiG and drive it across the border on a flat bed.  There’s photos of objects that look suspiciously like F-117s under a tarp being moved this way from places like Area 51 to Plant 42 in the desert.  It’s possible. 
 

The problems are that you have to have experts and tooling to put it back together correctly on the other side (which could up being NATO people = involvement = ‘act of war’), the avionics are different and you’re towing it through a war zone that exposes it to all kinds of damage.  
 

I don’t even like driving on Rundberg, can’t imagine taking a critical asset like a MiG-29, exposed for all to see, on rural roads in Ukraine. 

[Goredho 17399]

15 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We’re not and it’s infuriating. People talking about off ramps and how we shouldn’t do this or that. I’m like “this dude is finally on life support, now is the time to drop the anvil, do not resuscitate.”  I hope I’m wrong but I suspect the powers that be have some interest in keeping Putin around or prolonging the war in Ukraine in hopes that it’s enough to contain him. Again, I hope I’m wrong. 

I think it’s more that Russia’s ability to drop an iron curtain over Eastern Europe is effectively being dismantled right now without the need to escalate and increase our risk.  Dumb fuck Putin is doing the job for us (with Ukraine’s help obviously).  Every day, Russia’s shitty military grows shittier.  Every day, Putin’s ability to be a tyrant threatening the west grows weaker.  Circumstances can change where my opinion will change, but right now I think we are playing this perfect.

As for Polish migs, why the fuck does Poland need the US to be an intermediary?  Just fucking give them to the Ukraine without our involvement and no media fanfare.  If someone is telling any reporter with a microphone they have an arms deal for the Ukraine involving the US, it’s intent is primarily to get us to be seen as being escalatory so as to get us dragged more deeply into the conflict, and that’s just not in our best interests right now.

If we have to commit to fighting in Europe, that’s when I think things get really interesting with China and what they might do.  The US would be reeling from the pandemic, dealing with political unrest at home, and be tied up in a European war. That’s an opportunity for them.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Goredho

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

6 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Yes you can take the wings off a MiG and drive it across the border on a flat bed.  There’s photos of objects that look suspiciously like F-117s under a tarp being moved this way from places like Area 51 to Plant 42 in the desert.  It’s possible. 
 

The problems are that you have to have experts and tooling to put it back together correctly on the other side (which could up being NATO people = involvement = ‘act of war’), the avionics are different and you’re towing it through a war zone that exposes it to all kinds of damage.  
 

I don’t even like driving on Rundberg, can’t imagine taking a critical asset like a MiG-29, exposed for all to see, on rural roads in Ukraine. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31450]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:25 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Arguably the government lying all the time and ZERO accountability contributed to our susceptibility to online disinformation. You look at other western democracies where people have a higher trust in government and they can handle things like a pandemic much better. 

Well, and let's not forget the GOP constantly undermining government at every turn.

It's one thing to be skeptical of government solutions to every problem.

It's another thing to be constantly incanting "government bad."  Especially while governing in a way that exacerbates the bad.

[Hornius Emeritus 12457]

1 hour ago, Horn Dog said:

This is probably the situation.  We were working if getting them the jets quietly, then suddenly Poland announces some shit trying to look like heroes and stuck us with the bill.

 

There's a Polish-American forum that is hosted somewhere in Pennsylvania. I was reading it yesterday and all of the Polish Americans were laughing and saying this is exactly what happened and that it's "the most Polish way to do something." 

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

33 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Why can't you get there?  Just get to Prague or Warsaw and then start taking trains east. 

You can go over there and volunteer in support. I am sure there is a job waiting for you. You'd be paid minimally if at all and live in a dorm but you'd be doing your part. You don't have to be a frontline soldier in the legion of veterans. You might not get to personally kill two Russians but you might enable others to kill many more.

If you really, really want to go, there is no excuse for you not to. I say this as someone who deeply regrets not having served America in even stupid wars. My excuses were the same. But I didn't believe in those wars with anything like the fervor some of you on here do; aside from Afghanistan, we've not had a single semi-legit reason to invade any of these countries, and even then, we invaded the wrong fucking country. Twice. We should have just melted down the Saudi leadership and called it a day instead of wasting 20 years at war. 

But I digress. Talk is cheap. 

Wtf? No, I’m not going to go to Ukraine to fight their war. What is wrong with you? I was expressing the sentiment that even if I were Ukrainian I wouldn’t like the idea of being forced to fight because I’m not healthy or athletic enough to be a competent warrior. But I’m under 60 so if I was Ukrainian then I would be forced to fight. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

3 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Yes you can take the wings off a MiG and drive it across the border on a flat bed.  There’s photos of objects that look suspiciously like F-117s under a tarp being moved this way from places like Area 51 to Plant 42 in the desert.  It’s possible. 
 

The problems are that you have to have experts and tooling to put it back together correctly on the other side (which could up being NATO people = involvement = ‘act of war’), the avionics are different and you’re towing it through a war zone that exposes it to all kinds of damage.  
 

I don’t even like driving on Rundberg, can’t imagine taking a critical asset like a MiG-29, exposed for all to see, on rural roads in Ukraine. 

The planes would probably eat a missile before leaving the flatbed.  You cant sneak those in on some firebreak through the woods like a delivery of javelins.  Transit would require major roads because of the load and clearance requirements, and its not something they can haul ass with. Even this busted ass Russian army would be able to intercept something like this.  If they dont fly in mission ready, they are fucked.  

[Native Horn 3500]

12 hours ago, Bravo said:

He is too afraid of dying. Look how afraid he is of covid. he won't let anyone within 20' of him.

Right.  It's because of COVID.

*jlaw.gif*

[F250 28767]

10 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Wtf? No, I’m not going to go to Ukraine to fight their war. What is wrong with you? I was expressing the sentiment that even if I were Ukrainian I wouldn’t like the idea of being forced to fight because I’m not healthy or athletic enough to be a competent warrior. But I’m under 60 so if I was Ukrainian then I would be forced to fight. 

Counterpoint. If you were a Ukrainian it's possible you would have probably died of health issues long before the Russian invasion.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by F250

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, Goredho said:

I think it’s more that Russia’s ability to drop an iron curtain over Eastern Europe is effectively being dismantled right no without the need to escalate and increase our risk.  Dumb fuck Putin is doing the job for us, right now.  Every day, his shitty military grows shittier.  Every day, his ability to be a tyrant threatening the west grows weaker.  Circumstances can change where my opinion will change, but right now I think we are playing this perfect.

 

How is it being dismantled? He’s leveling the largest country in Europe because they will not submit and it doesn’t look like we’re going to stop him from doing it.  It seems like Putin’s message to Eastern Europe is clear, “comply or be annihilated. The West will not save you.”  Some recent things the U.S. administration has done have been good but our long term approach to Putin has been an objective failure and allowed him to get this far, it’s been far from perfect.  It may seem like time is on our side now but things can change quickly. Like Trump or some other Putin stooge being elected President in two years. I want to think the administration is handling this well but the risk-averse politically expedient approach is partially to blame for enabling this mess. Only time will tell.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20395]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

How is it being dismantled? 

His economy is being crushed and with that goes his ability to wage war.

Or was this a rhetorical question?

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

2 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

His economy is being crushed and with that goes his ability to wage war.

Or was this a rhetorical question?

We won’t know that he lost his ability to wage war until he stops waging war. We’re not there yet. 

[Goredho 17399]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

How is it being dismantled? He’s leveling the largest country in Europe because they will not submit and it doesn’t look like we’re going to stop him from doing it.  It seems like Putin’s message to Eastern Europe is clear, “comply or be annihilated. The West will not save you.”  Some recent things the U.S. administration has done have been good but our long term approach to Putin has been an objective failure and allowed him to get this far, it’s been far from perfect.  It may seem like time is on our side now but things can change quickly. Like Trump or some other Putin stooge being elected President in two years. I want to think the administration is handling this well but the risk-averse politically expedient approach is partially to blame for enabling this mess. Only time will tell.

This is not Poland in 1939.  Russia is killing a lot of civilians, but it’s not rolling over the country.  Their military is being exposed as not being able to compete against a western armed, trained and informed military a fraction of its size.  And the world has United to dismantle their other, non-military systems that make them  a functioning country.

Every day they lose more men, tanks, helicopter and aircraft.  Every day the rest of the world is making them significantly harder to replace.  If the war in the Ukraine ended today with a total Ukraine capitulation, Putin does not have the years left to rebuild and reattempt this elsewhere in Eastern Europe.

I agree historically that we have failed to address Putin’s aggressions as we should have.  But what matters is what is happening to Russia’s ability to project its power outside of its borders right now.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

His economy is being crushed and with that goes his ability to wage war.

China isn’t going to stop buying from Russia and Russia’s tolerance for economic pain isn’t known for being weak.  We buy a lot of assembled shit from China, much of it with raw materials they buy from Russia. Putin is still going to be getting a lot of money from us indirectly through China.  I have no good solution for this elephant in the room. 

[Captainant 27653]

3 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I agree historically that we have failed to address Putin’s aggressions as we should have.  But what matters is what is happening to Russia’s ability to project its power outside of its borders right now.

Honestly, based on what I've read and learned about russia's infrastructure and military logistics I'm not sure they've ever been able to effectively operate outside of their borders. The notable exception is WWII, but russia operated within its borders for the vast majority of the counteroffensive and didn't really operate outside of their borders until late 1944.

Russia has always been tied to its railways. It makes their homeland a fortress, but cripples effective operation more than 50 miles from their supply dumps

[Eggo 3977]

 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

fun fact --  Texas 268,597 mi²  ; Ukraine 233,031 mi²

and NATO logistics to Ukraine are faster and more efficient than Russia's to their troops just 20-100 miles away.  What a trash army!

[927 E. 41st 1124]

1 minute ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

fun fact --  Texas 268,597 mi²  ; Ukraine 233,031 mi²

and NATO logistics to Ukraine are faster and more efficient than Russia's to their troops just 20-100 miles away.  What a trash army!

I don't disagree, but sadly even this trash army is killing a lot of people.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, Goredho said:

This is not Poland in 1939.  Russia is killing a lot of civilians, but it’s not rolling over the country.  Their military is being exposed as not being able to compete against a western armed, trained and informed military a fraction of its size.  And the world has United to dismantle their other, non-military systems that make them  a functioning country.

Putin will continue attempting to subvert Western democracies through non-military aggression, this is a certainty. You’re right, this isn’t Poland 1939. Hitler didn’t have Facebook and nukes. While the the traditional kinetic warfare threat of Russia isn’t as impressive as the Third Reich, their toolkit of weapons to subjugate populations  with Kremlin friendly fascist regimes is still real and sadly proven effective in some places (Not Ukraine tho!). With it we will deal I guess. 

[Eggo 3977]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Honestly, based on what I've read and learned about russia's infrastructure and military logistics I'm not sure they've ever been able to effectively operate outside of their borders. The notable exception is WWII, but russia operated within its borders for the vast majority of the counteroffensive and didn't really operate outside of their borders until late 1944.

Russia has always been tied to its railways. It makes their homeland a fortress, but cripples effective operation more than 50 miles from their supply dumps

All Russia had to do was have enough men to absorb the blow from the Wehrmacht long enough to let Germany lose on every other front and collapse. The Red Army was not exactly one to be admired in WWII. If the Japanese had left the US alone and attacked Russia instead, Russia would have fallen.

[Homercles 10205]

12 hours ago, Bravo said:

False. Oddly the Ukraine thread in the DT I am having great discussions and reactions in that thread. 2 threads talking about the same things and completely different reactions. actually if you go through my posts in this thread tonight I was trying to interact with some here. I thought brisket and I were having a good discussion. You just personally don't like me. 

Pretty much all your posts in DT are feel good quips and tweets.  Start posting your hot takes in there about Trump/Ukraine, neglecting the whole impeachment thing, and see how that goes.  

[Goredho 17399]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Putin will continue attempting to subvert Western democracies through non-military aggression, this is a certainty. You’re right, this isn’t Poland 1939. Hitler didn’t have Facebook and nukes. While the the traditional kinetic warfare threat of Russia isn’t as impressive as the Third Reich, their toolkit of weapons to subjugate populations  with Kremlin friendly fascist regimes is still real and sadly proven effective in some places (Not Ukraine tho!). With it we will deal I guess. 

Yeah, they are certainly skilled at the dimension of information war that the internet made vastly more important.  But Putin is somewhat weakening himself there.  Certainly there is more political risk for politicians to be cozy with Putin than there was a couple weeks ago.  A lot of people I know that bought into shit amplified by Russia over the last few years are not buying into his shit regarding the Ukraine.

It’s up to us here at home to make those who continue to align with Putin’s aims pay a price for their role in what you describe.  I’m looking at you, Candace Owens, you vapid cunt.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Goredho

[Captainant 27653]

2 minutes ago, Eggo said:

All Russia had to do was have enough men to absorb the blow from the Wehrmacht long enough to let Germany lose on every other front and collapse. The Red Army was not exactly one to be admired in WWII. If the Japanese had left the US alone and attacked Russia instead, Russia would have fallen.

Japan had enough on its plate with China and the rest of their proto-colonial holdings. They couldn't have opened another front, and they desperately needed the resources that we were keeping them away from. It was the basis of their attack on Pearl - when their strategic reserves hit a certain level, they simply opened the already written orders to attack.

Please don't interpret me as being admiring of the red army - they traded competency for bodies and outbled the wehrmacht. And honestly, had hitler not drawn himself into the quagmire of Stalingrad and simply encircled and bypassed rather than feeding a million men into the meat grinder, the eastern front likely would have gone much differently.

But in the modern context, we're seeing the equivalent of the 1941 soviet army in modern russia's armed forces. A depleted officer corps, poor unit cohesion, and dogshit morale. Only difference now is that they're attacking with all of these negatives rather than defending

[wildcat09 29349]

45 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

How is it being dismantled? He’s leveling the largest country in Europe because they will not submit and it doesn’t look like we’re going to stop him from doing it.  It seems like Putin’s message to Eastern Europe is clear, “comply or be annihilated. The West will not save you.”  Some recent things the U.S. administration has done have been good but our long term approach to Putin has been an objective failure and allowed him to get this far, it’s been far from perfect.  It may seem like time is on our side now but things can change quickly. Like Trump or some other Putin stooge being elected President in two years. I want to think the administration is handling this well but the risk-averse politically expedient approach is partially to blame for enabling this mess. Only time will tell.

How is this a serious question? Jesus man, you've had some ridiculous takes in this thread. Take a breath. 

[RomaVicta 29905]

8 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Is the DT for political hot takes or is that for CR? 

DT is for snowflake takes. A safe place from hot takes altogether. Snowflakes turn to whiny, persecuted tears in the presence of hot takes.

CR is for anybody's takes. It's even a place to deposit steaming squirts of dishonesty and lies from time to time.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

13 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

How is this a serious question? Jesus man, you've had some ridiculous takes in this thread. Take a breath. 

If our politicians were serious about neutralizing Putin’s capabilities for the long term they’d be passing sweeping anti-corruption legislation, banning dark money, seizing oligarch property, prosecuting Trump for his numerous crimes in office that also so happened to protect the Kremlin from accountability. They’re not going to do that though because reasons. So excuse me when I question these claims that we’re doing everything we can right now.

[Nivek 16923]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I have flat feet, I’m asthmatic, I have bad knees and a bum shoulder. I haven’t shot a gun since my Daisy BB gun when I was about 10 years old. The thought that if I was Ukrainian I could be forced to stay in the country and fight scares me. I could do things to help. I could cook. I could clean. I could help render medical aid. But putting me on the front line would just make me cannon fodder and would be a waste of a gun. But if I could kill just two Russian invaders before they killed me then I would die a happy man. 

Killing people isn't fun and you wouldn't die happy.  Unless you are a psychopath...

[Dahobbs 17533]

18 minutes ago, Bravo said:

I try to leave political hot takes out of DT like Homer would like me to do.

If you posted the same thing here that you post in DT, you wouldn't be getting a negative response. Some of them are legitimately informational. The problem you're facing in this thread is that your posting unsupported bullshit that is unlike what you post in DT. 

[Guest Lobo]

11 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Killing people isn't fun and you wouldn't die happy.  Unless you are a psychopath...

Only reason you’re not having fun with it is because you’re not killing the right people.  

[RomaVicta 29905]

29 minutes ago, Bravo said:

I try to leave political hot takes out of DT like Homer would like me to do.

I congratulate you.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Putin will continue attempting to subvert Western democracies through non-military aggression, this is a certainty. You’re right, this isn’t Poland 1939. Hitler didn’t have Facebook and nukes. While the the traditional kinetic warfare threat of Russia isn’t as impressive as the Third Reich, their toolkit of weapons to subjugate populations  with Kremlin friendly fascist regimes is still real and sadly proven effective in some places (Not Ukraine tho!). With it we will deal I guess. 

Putin has turned off Facebook in Russia. 

[Brisketexan 105095]

2 hours ago, Pancho said:

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

 

God damnit this is so fucked up. 

This.

When "American law enforcement agencies" are one of the largest military forces in the world, with so much goddamn extra military kit that they can EXPORT it, we have a serious fucking problem.

[Nivek 16923]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

Why do you think they are not communist? Because they don't follow the Soviet model?

Because communism is rooted in a classless society, public ownership of materials, eventually the state would cease to exist as would religion and even family structure and all private property.    In other words, it was more like the society of the bushman lived in "The Gods Must be Crazy" prior to the coke bottle than anything an advanced civilization (post electricity) has ever come to know.    Communism was defined by Engels and Marx, and bastardized by Mao and Lenin (and of course Stalin) to the point that is no longer resembles the Communism defined, but resembles other autocratic regimes (to which totalitarianism is a subcategory).  

In another instance I like it to the modern republican party which talks about America with some reverence, citing our institutions and roots in democracy as the source of our strength as a nation, and then proceeds to gerrymander the shit out of districts and enact very anti-democratic policies to strip the will of the people away (Desantis' choice to ignore Florida voters choice to give voting rights back to felons).  On in another case, they argue they are the party of Lincoln and point to the Democratic Party's ties to overt racist suppressive past but fail to let you know the political parties effectively swapped and in a modern sense, Lincoln is closer to a modern Democratic Party member and the old racist voter suppression tactics employed by the DP have just been rebottled by the RP.   (Not to say that the old Republicans or modern Democratic Party members are pure as the driven snow.)

Well that is just like my opinion though.  I think words matter and definitions matter.  This isn't some slang which has been embraced depending on context or inflection (M. Ali's "I'm a baaaad man" or some other Bostonian 15 years ago saying "wicked" to mean something cool) but yet is still universally recognized to have the original meaning intact.  

 

[RomaVicta 29905]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

This.

When "American law enforcement agencies" are one of the largest military forces in the world, with so much goddamn extra military kit that they can EXPORT it, we have a serious fucking problem.

Cops love this shit. He can't be bothered to sling his weapon and maybe take off his goggles to make himself look less like a storm trooper. 

It's all about officer safety. We risk your our lives for us you! Now git on the ground or I'll point this sweet auto-rifle at you! GIT ON THE GROUND!

I solemnly swear not to post about the militarization of American police again on this thread about the Ukraine war.

[DDD Dad 14332]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

 

God damnit this is so fucked up. 

Stop de-funding the police!

[Longhorn_Fan68 33868]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Killing people isn't fun and you wouldn't die happy.  Unless you are a psychopath...

Are you aware that men under 60 aren’t allowed to leave Ukraine but are forced to stay and fight?

[Nivek 16923]

9 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Are you aware that men under 60 aren’t allowed to leave Ukraine but are forced to stay and fight?

something about the price of tea in China....