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Posted
  On 3/20/2022 at 11:14 PM, RomaVicta said:

You are right in appraising our culpability (guilt) in the killing of so many civilians particularly in Iraq but surely too many in Afghanistan, too. I don't like the way we sugarcoat the results of our military action. 

Trump is wrong in that he equates US policy and history with Putin. I think any American or American commander would prefer victory with no civilian deaths; they always err on just how many civilians we'll kill. It's horrendous. In contrast, Putin has employed murder broadly in political competition and is using civilian slaughter as a chosen strategy to win his evil war against Ukraine. 

In this comparison, I think intent does matter. Our well-meaning isn't a get out of jail card for the civilians we kill. Putin's willful slaughter deserves condemnation for what it is: outright, premeditated murder.

As a side note, the US is diverse in the hand it reaches towards other nations and peoples. Government is usually a bloodied fist, but sometimes there is a real attempt at humanitarianism. Privately, countless entities, including many of the churches that I don't much like for other reasons, show up to provide health care, education, training, and doubtless many things I don't even know about. The bloody fist isn't the only aspect of American engagement. It pretty much is the only aspect to everything Putin does.

 

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Putin at his core is a criminal and the rule for criminals is to take. Trump understands this which makes it ironic that he established charities and then did as expected. When he could’ve just skimmed off the top, claiming CEO fees, he instead chose to take it all. Both should be prosecuted for openly conducted crimes.

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 4:27 PM, Mdhorn said:

Putin at his core is a criminal and the rule for criminals is to take. Trump understands this which makes it ironic that he established charities and then did as expected. When he could’ve just skimmed off the top, claiming CEO fees, he instead chose to take it all. Both should be prosecuted for openly conducted crimes.

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At their core, they’re the same person. 

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 6:31 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

This take is dumb AF. Fair enough, the West doesn’t treat humanitarian aspects of war equally and and recognize the human catastrophe as the same. 

But war as a means of statecraft had disappeared from Europe for over 70 years. The Balkans were not an example of state in state aggression.  Nuclear powers had completely refrained from redrawing maps and acquiring territory via military means. This war is a norm-shattering event of historic significance and with destabilizing potential for the global system, as wars in Europe frequently end up being. People are absolutely right to be more afraid and concerned over what this means as well as upset about the retrogression of an entire continent from a zone of peace to a zone of war than they should be over endemic regional warfare in MENA. 
 

Someone who understood what realpolitik means would get it.  

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THIS.

Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 7:48 PM, bolverk said:

So they're averaging just over 500 dead Russian soldiers a day since March 2. 

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The amount of deaths both military and civilian is disturbing. Putin should be locked in a cage out in a town square to be scorned on a daily basis. Ship him around the world as an exhibit.

Posted

The Economist on the woes of the Russian Army:

 

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 8:09 PM, F250 said:

The amount of deaths both military and civilian is disturbing. Putin should be locked in a cage out in a town square to be scorned on a daily basis. Ship him around the world as an exhibit.

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Not really. That's about right as far as Russians go.

Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 8:50 PM, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Last paragraph: 
Russia has so far worked much harder to avoid civilian casualties than in its air campaign in Syria and than was expected at the start of the conflict, says Mr Adamsky. But the war may be entering an “uglier stage”, he warns. That is evident in Kharkiv. Rockets and cluster munitions have begun targeting residential areas, causing widespread damage to entire blocks of flats. Images show corpses littering the street. The appearance of Su-34 bombers suggests that the city may soon be struck from the air. Mr Putin’s gamble on a quick war has failed—now he appears set on a grim one.

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As Putin gets further from any reasonable version of victory, I can definitely the goal to shift more to breaking the country rather than taking it.  If nothing else, to serve as a warning to others.  

Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 9:13 PM, Tuco said:

As Putin gets further from any reasonable version of victory, I can definitely the goal to shift more to breaking the country rather than taking it.  If nothing else, to serve as a warning to others.  

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Correct.

It's the go-to move of an enraged despot who has been defied.  "If I can't have it, nobody can."

Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 9:15 PM, Brisketexan said:

Correct.

It's the go-to move of an enraged despot who has been defied.  "If I can't have it, nobody can."

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All of Ukraine will be destroyed because of one man's fragile ego.  The bitter irony is that Russia has already lost. It may not be apparent immediately but they've lost. So all of these lives on both sides are being lost because of one man's fragile ego and that man will never achieve what he set out to do. 

When this is over, nothing other than the complete dismantling of the Russian government will be acceptable. 

 

Posted

The Economist:  Putin's invasion is making it hard for Right-Wing populists around the world:


 

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 10:26 PM, Brisketexan said:

The rule of "it's blocked by a paywall so you won't be able to read it if all they do is post a link?"  Seems like a good rule.

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I am more concerned that posters actually believe other posters actually pay for that site. Someone let them out of their round rubber room and likely gave them scissors.

Posted

That's pretty great stuff from The Economist. 

"In 2016, the year of the Brexit vote and the election of Donald Trump, history seemed to be going their way. But their fortunes since have been mixed, and the invasion of Ukraine looks like a turning-point. Outrage against Russian aggression puts those who have defended Mr Putin on the back foot. The war has energised the centrist parties with which they compete, and revived enthusiasm for liberal internationalism and the EU. Russian subsidies for think-tanks are drying up. Russian propaganda outlets such as RT and Sputnik have been expelled from some countries and kicked off platforms like YouTube. And nationalist-populist politicians have been forced to choose: find some way to excuse Mr Putin’s invasion, or condemn it and admit that they were wrong about him.

In Europe the dilemma has been most embarrassing for France’s Marine Le Pen and Eric Zemmour, and for Italy’s Matteo Salvini. Mr Salvini, leader of the far-right Northern League party, praised Mr Putin in 2019 as “one of the best men in government in the world”. He has tried to redeem himself by supporting Ukrainian refugees, but has failed to condemn the Russian invasion explicitly. On a visit to the Polish border town of Przemysl on March 8th he was humiliated by the mayor, who presented him with a T-shirt featuring Mr Putin—similar to one Mr Salvini wore smilingly in a photo on Red Square in 2014 (see picture: Mr Salvini is on the right)."


IN YO FACE!

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 10:34 PM, HOOKEM4 said:

I am more concerned that posters actually believe other posters actually pay for that site. Someone let them out of their round rubber room and likely gave them scissors.

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Wait....so your position is that you don't think people subscribe to The Economist?

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 4:04 PM, Mdhorn said:

Not long ago families were all sitting together having meals and maybe watching tv. Now they may be separated, dead or trying to figure out how to survive minute by minute—when/where to rest, scavenge food, and how to stay warm. All while I debate whether I want to bring or grab a lunch at work. It’s surreal. 

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it is certainly surreal. there are days that go by where i feel like just going there and fighting would do my soul better that sitting and watching. its burning me up.

just to remind you of the new world we live in. i got into an argument with a lebanese guy (due to my team's american accents) in casual talk on this over some vball this weekend. whataboutism is the new MAD. "America did this, does this, I can't talk politics with Americans, etc." funny thing is whatever are this dude's grievances are (and I am sure I can guess) are understood by me and many Americans to be real. But we can't get past the initial part due to extreme victimhood so he ended with "putin's not that bad your media blah blah blah"

MAW - mutually assured whataboutism. allowing shit to happen because shit has happened. 

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 11:10 PM, staboner said:

it is certainly surreal. there are days that go by where i feel like just going there and fighting would do my soul better that sitting and watching. its burning me up.

just to remind you of the new world we live in. i got into an argument with a lebanese guy (due to my team's american accents) in casual talk on this over some vball this weekend. whataboutism is the new MAD. "America did this, does this, I can't talk politics with Americans, etc." funny thing is whatever are this dude's grievances are (and I am sure I can guess) are understood by me and many Americans to be real. But we can't get past the initial part due to extreme victimhood so he ended with "putin's not that bad your media blah blah blah"

MAW - mutually assured whataboutism. allowing shit to happen because shit has happened. 

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The whataboutists are the political version of the dorks who respond to any questioning of their football team's HC with some variation of "where do you coach?" or "and you could do better?"

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 10:26 PM, Brisketexan said:

The rule of "it's blocked by a paywall so you won't be able to read it if all they do is post a link?"  Seems like a good rule.

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That’s a bad rule. It’s poor scholarship. Someone posted an article titled “Putin’s Folly” recently and I searched for that title at The Economist and only found an article with that headline dated in 2002

What if someone else is a subscriber to The Economist? What if someone wanted to share the article with a friend who’s a subscriber? What if that article motivated someone to become a subscriber? It takes practically no time to be responsible and include a link. I will never assert something to anyone and defend it by saying, “I don’t know, someone I’ve never met posted it on the internet.”

While I’m not accusing anyone of falsifying an article from The Economist, I can’t do anything with an unsourced article of any kind. Usually I just ignore them and scroll on by because there’s too much info online to waste time on unsourced articles. I just happened to notice three consecutive references to The Economist, none of which included a link. It tempts me to falsify an article from The Economist just to make a point. But I’d probably give myself away because I always provide my sources. If I didn’t then it would rightly raise suspicion.

Incidentally, the “Putin’s Folly” article that was posted really didn’t give any more insight than an article from the New Yorker not long ago. I’ll post that here, with a link. I normally go through and edit out all the ads and correct formatting but I’m not going to bother here because I’m just trying to make a point.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/stephen-kotkin-putin-russia-ukraine-stalin

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 7:21 PM, Hookah Horns said:

Thank god Trump is far less competent at, well, pretty much everything. 

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Yeah, people like Putin, Kim, and Xi have been preparing their whole lives to be dictators. A guy like Trump with no experience in politics at all, it’s almost like he took a correspondence course on authoritarianism at Putin U. Fortunately he’s still an amateur and so far our democratic institutions have held on. I’m not sure if they can survive him getting his master’s degree in dictatorship.

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 6:31 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

This take is dumb AF. Fair enough, the West doesn’t treat humanitarian aspects of war equally and and recognize the human catastrophe as the same. 

But war as a means of statecraft had disappeared from Europe for over 70 years. The Balkans were not an example of state in state aggression.  Nuclear powers had completely refrained from redrawing maps and acquiring territory via military means. This war is a norm-shattering event of historic significance and with destabilizing potential for the global system, as wars in Europe frequently end up being. People are absolutely right to be more afraid and concerned over what this means as well as upset about the retrogression of an entire continent from a zone of peace to a zone of war than they should be over endemic regional warfare in MENA. 
 

Someone who understood what realpolitik means would get it.  

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Finland should retake the land they lost in 39.

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 10:52 PM, elfenix said:

 

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It's funny because Mike Flynn will be killed in action by his own troops.  But they'll be Russian troops and his family still gets to live under delusion.  

And where's the storyline from Trump about how "Many Generals" are contacting him for advice on how to get tough on Russia?  That story percolated earlier today and then conveniently ebbed away...

Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 9:13 PM, Tuco said:

As Putin gets further from any reasonable version of victory, I can definitely the goal to shift more to breaking the country rather than taking it.  If nothing else, to serve as a warning to others.  

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This is what John Mearsheimer has been saying his plan would be since 2014. I think he is a little dismayed by how successful the resistance has been -- but not surprised -- but he has never intended to absorb Ukraine. It has been to break it -- the exact word Mearsheimer uses. To beat it like a stepchild. And then to pull out with the promise that Russia is always prepared to do it again if Ukraine gets uppity with them.

Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 4:04 PM, Mdhorn said:

Not long ago families were all sitting together having meals and maybe watching tv. Now they may be separated, dead or trying to figure out how to survive minute by minute—when/where to rest, scavenge food, and how to stay warm. All while I debate whether I want to bring or grab a lunch at work. It’s surreal. 

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I've left a lot on the cutting floor. Who is going to tell of the 96 yr old survivor of the holocaust blasted by a lazy lob of a shell?

It ain't gonna be me. I'll hold a candle. Give money to the ones feeding lost souls. But, I can't handle an endless barrage of faces.

I'll tell you what got me.

"Buy me a mum dad. Or I won't have anyone to walk me to school."

Goddammit boy. You work on walking on those legs first. 

 

Posted
  On 3/20/2022 at 11:05 PM, Lobo said:

Please somebody make this come true.  I know the Danes would use the proceeds for a good cause.  Holy shit, I would buy ten of these to build with my kids.  I know they purposely don't do much in the "real" war space, mainly sticking to spaceships, pirates, etc.---nothing involving modern warfare.  But c'mon Lego, seize the moment, do something good with the sales, and let's have a few laughs.  

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Posted
  On 3/21/2022 at 8:09 PM, F250 said:

The amount of deaths both military and civilian is disturbing. Putin should be locked in a cage out in a town square to be scorned on a daily basis. Ship him around the world as an exhibit.

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While people throw rubles, hryvnia, pennies and pesos at him--let it rain.  

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Posted (edited)
  On 3/22/2022 at 2:15 AM, MaybeACoordinator said:

This is what John Mearsheimer has been saying his plan would be since 2014. I think he is a little dismayed by how successful the resistance has been -- but not surprised -- but he has never intended to absorb Ukraine. It has been to break it -- the exact word Mearsheimer uses. To beat it like a stepchild. And then to pull out with the promise that Russia is always prepared to do it again if Ukraine gets uppity with them.

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Putin's showing he's got a tiny peewee while sitting on nuclear weapons to bail out his shitty forces and governance.  Nobody now looks at Moscow as anything greater than a nuclear pile of shit.  Getting pantsed by an ex comedian on the world stage isn't much of a master plan. 

Edited by Mdhorn
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Posted



  On 3/22/2022 at 1:44 AM, Lobo said:
"Many Generals" are contacting him for advice on how to get tough on Russia?  That story percolated earlier today and then conveniently ebbed away...


I'm almost positive this was a Surly "tounge-in-cheek" post.
Posted
  On 3/22/2022 at 8:22 PM, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Don't click on the link, just FYI.  Crypto is horse paste for morons and traitors.  This poster is a hocker of horse paste, bullshit and other propaganda.   

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Correct.  And there are plenty of ways to donate to the Ukrainian defensive military effort directly: https://kyivindependent.com/national/heres-how-to-support-ukrainian-military/

You don't need to go "crypto bro" to do it, no matter how desperately the crypto bros want you to believe that crypto is the only way to fly.  

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Posted

Hey fellas, I have this magic pill, called Super Beets.  You can buy it with Bitcoin.  It cures all that ails ya!  It does!  Just put your bitcoin right here, no, a little more to the right, and Super Beets will fix your prostate problems, your ex-wife problems, any problems you have!!



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