Ukraine War

[Dahobbs 17625]

16 minutes ago, bangkok said:

i'm about as anti-war as one may be, and i also try to look at all sides of an issue.

i'm a skeptic. i've never voted.

i think we see a ton of misinformation, propaganda from all angles.

i hate the political climate of the states, which is part of why i live in bangkok.

i want to know what conservatives are spouting on an issue, and same with progressives.. i try to look at multiple news sources and opinions.

that said, trump was a horrible president, and his presidency influences putins actions today.

i don't typically take sides.. i try to look at all angles, everything's a grey area for me. what one person benefits from, another suffers..

no one's right, and everyone has their own agenda.

i'm hoping we pursue a peaceful agenda and can take a longer-term view of that while flexing our military, economic, and political muscles to encourage peace.

Tjhooker?

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

19 minutes ago, bangkok said:

i'm a skeptic.

A skeptic is supposed to apply their skepticism equally to all sides. I think you’re just full of shit, comrade. 

[mchookem 16336]

23 minutes ago, bangkok said:

i'm about as anti-war as one may be, and i also try to look at all sides of an issue.

i'm a skeptic. i've never voted.

i think we see a ton of misinformation, propaganda from all angles.

i hate the political climate of the states, which is part of why i live in bangkok.

i want to know what conservatives are spouting on an issue, and same with progressives.. i try to look at multiple news sources and opinions.

that said, trump was a horrible president, and his presidency influences putins actions today.

i don't typically take sides.. i try to look at all angles, everything's a grey area for me. what one person benefits from, another suffers..

no one's right, and everyone has their own agenda.

i'm hoping we pursue a peaceful agenda and can take a longer-term view of that while flexing our military, economic, and political muscles to encourage peace.

that sounds almost exactly like several of the Russians on the video MAC posted.

[Bojack 2081]

12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Tjhooker?

Bravo is likely tjhooker.  bangkok has the whiff of Fozzz. 

[Sawbonz 27578]

What y’all can’t see the nuance in one country shelling and bombing hospitals and an historic theater with “children” marked on the parking lot large enough to be seen from altitude?

no critical thinkers here

[Scheiss Meister 8408]

35 minutes ago, bangkok said:

i'm about as anti-war as one may be, and i also try to look at all sides of an issue.

i'm a skeptic. i've never voted.

i think we see a ton of misinformation, propaganda from all angles.

i hate the political climate of the states, which is part of why i live in bangkok.

i want to know what conservatives are spouting on an issue, and same with progressives.. i try to look at multiple news sources and opinions.

that said, trump was a horrible president, and his presidency influences putins actions today.

i don't typically take sides.. i try to look at all angles, everything's a grey area for me. what one person benefits from, another suffers..

no one's right, and everyone has their own agenda.

i'm hoping we pursue a peaceful agenda and can take a longer-term view of that while flexing our military, economic, and political muscles to encourage peace.

All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

[bangkok 89]

7 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I think that they see themselves as prioritizing peace by any means, no matter what the short term or long term costs to Ukraine and Russia's next targets.  I also think that they are uncomfortable applying ethical judgements to Russian actions.

ETA - didn't see the post above before I sent.  There it is.

i'll speak for myself here.

yes peace should be the priority.

but not by "any means," just make it clear to putin that would be his best bet, to walk away.

flex while giving him an out.

the short term and long term implications of this war are also a major consideration.

what russia is doing is far beyond unethical.. it's atrocious, disgusting, and at risk of further escalation.

stop that bullshit, if we can, before it escalates.

this is a deeper issue than ethics, and putin has demonstrated his lack of exactly that while targeting civilians.

it's sick, and he wants us to feel sick, to feel threatened.

and he's losing, and we know that, but still this shit fucking sucks, war sucks. 

i'd like to know: for all of you claiming peace isn't possible, so let's fuck all the ruskies up and demonstrate our superiority like we should!

how much support should we give?

and what happens if cornered putin deploys chemical weapons or tactical nukes?

what do we do?

i'm asking legitimately because i think many of you haven't thought ahead to adequately address this.

what consequences and loss of life is acceptable?

[Tuco 5076]

The best opportunity for peace is for Russia to have its military capability reduced and for Putin to lose support in Russia. That’s the current direction.

His invasion of Georgia was largely ignored in 2008, which is basically the same script of what we are seeing in Ukraine with Putin declaring support for separatist factions. Six years later, he annexed Crimea. And now he just wants to a greater portion of southern Ukraine, right?

No.

If Ukraine wants to deal, that’s cool. It’s their people getting killed. But fuck anyone who criticizes their resistance , or our extremely restrained support for their resistance. Ukraine surrendering a single fucking inch is not a path to peace.

[bangkok 89]

17 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

A skeptic is supposed to apply their skepticism equally to all sides. I think you’re just full of shit, comrade. 

yea, so i've demonstrated that i do exactly that.

i'm skeptical of everything.. or intend to be, at least.

no bias, all questions is my mantra.

so if you can demonstrate why you think i'm full of shit, i'll also address that.

but your argument is "i think" without any basis or reasoning.

and that's a worthy argument?

[hookemATL 11758]

Yeah that discussion has never come up in the past 109 pages.

good on ya.

for bringing that up. 

 

we really. Appreciate it. 
 

really. 
 

we totally do. 
 

[TwiceHorn 31495]

6 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Gonna do a long cat post on Russia and empathy for Russia and Russians.  Up front: I love Russia. I have loved ones in Russia and will for the foreseeable future.  Russia was the first foreign country I lived in for any extended period. My Russian has degraded, but I used to read the Russian pantheon in the original.  My exposure to Russian spiritual writing led me to Orthodox Christianity. My bookshelf is full of known and not so known Russian writers, my walls with Russian icons. In art, music, literature, science, and culture Russia stands with Greece, Italy, and England in what it’s given the world.  No exaggeration.

I have to think that what I’ve felt as I’ve watched what Russia has turned into since the poor but hopeful days of the 1990s and early 2000s must be comparable to what people who genuinely loved Germany or Japan felt in the 1930s.  It is a horror. Everything bad and dysfunctional about the nation has been amplified to the extreme.  Everything good and beautiful has been distorted into something unrecognizable and enlisted in service of evil aims.  If you love Russia you should hate what it has become.
 

Russia is not a special snowflake and does not have special security needs that trump the rest of the world. It is time for Russia to grow up and take on a more mature and cooperative view of security and politics.  Other nations have managed this.  For some it was traumatic- Germany, Japan. For others it was painful but managed— the melting away of the British Empire and French colonies.  These are also proud, historic nations with legitimate security concerns that have moved past paranoia and aggression and might makes right. Even the United States has been appropriately chastened by Iraq and Afghanistan and we now are more modest in our use of power and our ambitions, hopefully for good. If you love Russia you should hope they lose this war, quickly if possible, long and painfully if it comes to it.  They aren’t going to achieve anything good for themselves or the world if they win.
 

Most of us have seen someone we love completely lose the plot in a similar way. The things they want for themselves are bad, they exaggerate their faults. Even the qualities we used to value and love are twisted into something horrible.  They hurt people around them and they demand we sympathize.  Mature people know that the only response is to help the people they hurt and to let our loved ones experience the consequences of their actions. Even if it hurts us to see that happen.  We don’t help anyone by making excuses or trying to shield them from the tragedy they create for themselves.  Even when the people they are hurting aren’t perfect, even if we haven’t always been a perfect friend or dad or spouse, we have to recognize who is wrong and who is right. 
 

Finally— nations do not have emotions, interests, or aims. People do. It is not in the interest of the Russian people to be sanctioned or to see boys come back in boxes from an unneeded war in Ukraine that will not make Russians safer or more prosperous.  There is a lot of truth in the analogy that the Russian people are traumatized to the point that they have trouble knowing what’s actually good for them.  Many of us have seen this as well. We can’t want to help Russians more than Russians want to be helped.  Only Russians can decide for themselves that they hate being abused more than they love the good times with the abuser.  It’s not our job to make that process less painful for them, in fact, pain may be the only way they figure it out. 

Most excellent post. Really insightful.

We all knew you were quite astute at international relations, but the human "analogy" here is some main truth and something that takes a whole lot of us a lifetime of hard knocks to understand, if we ever do.

[Scheiss Meister 8408]

16 minutes ago, bangkok said:

i'll speak for myself here.

yes peace should be the priority.

but not by "any means," just make it clear to putin that would be his best bet, to walk away.

flex while giving him an out.

the short term and long term implications of this war are also a major consideration.

what russia is doing is far beyond unethical.. it's atrocious, disgusting, and at risk of further escalation.

stop that bullshit, if we can, before it escalates.

this is a deeper issue than ethics, and putin has demonstrated his lack of exactly that while targeting civilians.

it's sick, and he wants us to feel sick, to feel threatened.

and he's losing, and we know that, but still this shit fucking sucks, war sucks. 

i'd like to know: for all of you claiming peace isn't possible, so let's fuck all the ruskies up and demonstrate our superiority like we should!

how much support should we give?

and what happens if cornered putin deploys chemical weapons or tactical nukes?

what do we do?

i'm asking legitimately because i think many of you haven't thought ahead to adequately address this.

what consequences and loss of life is acceptable?

Peace is absolutely possible, but not on Putin's terms.  His terms guarantee further bloodshed at a later time and place of his chosing.  That cannot be acceptable.

We should give all of the support that Ukraine needs to successfully defend themselves.

A response to Putin using WMDs would have to depend on the circumstances of that use.  There are too many possible permutations, and we message board warriors have too little information, to reasonably discuss appropriate responses.

What loss of life is acceptable?  That is entirely up to Ukraine and Russia right now.  We cannot decide that for them, nor can we dictate that to them.

 

[Bookman 4639]

23 minutes ago, bangkok said:

i'm skeptical of everything.. or intend to be, at least.

Are you skeptical of how skeptical you claim to be? Do you look at that from all angles?

[cactusflinthead 27601]

 

[TexArcher 37977]

1 hour ago, bangkok said:

i'm a skeptic. i've never voted.

We know, Comrade.

[Brisketexan 105154]

i'll speak for myself here.
yes peace should be the priority.
but not by "any means," just make it clear to putin that would be his best bet, to walk away.
flex while giving him an out.
the short term and long term implications of this war are also a major consideration.
what russia is doing is far beyond unethical.. it's atrocious, disgusting, and at risk of further escalation.
stop that bullshit, if we can, before it escalates.
this is a deeper issue than ethics, and putin has demonstrated his lack of exactly that while targeting civilians.
it's sick, and he wants us to feel sick, to feel threatened.
and he's losing, and we know that, but still this shit fucking sucks, war sucks. 
i'd like to know: for all of you claiming peace isn't possible, so let's fuck all the ruskies up and demonstrate our superiority like we should!
how much support should we give?
and what happens if cornered putin deploys chemical weapons or tactical nukes?
what do we do?
i'm asking legitimately because i think many of you haven't thought ahead to adequately address this.
what consequences and loss of life is acceptable?

Your post was fine until you got to the “for all
If you saying peace isn’t possible.”
It’s possible. But it will only be possible when Putin realizes it’s his best option. Will Ukraine ultimately be willing Tom give up….something? Probably. It’s up to them.
Most all of us here are simply proposing “stay the course until Putin realizes that some sort of declaration of victory and making an acceptable deal” is his only real path.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19103]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

*gargling

But yes.  Just remember, Maybe is a liberal.

Funnily enough, my phone didn't auto correct.  Lol.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19103]

1 hour ago, bangkok said:

i'm about as anti-war as one may be, and i also try to look at all sides of an issue.

i'm a skeptic. i've never voted.

i think we see a ton of misinformation, propaganda from all angles.

i hate the political climate of the states, which is part of why i live in bangkok.

i want to know what conservatives are spouting on an issue, and same with progressives.. i try to look at multiple news sources and opinions.

that said, trump was a horrible president, and his presidency influences putins actions today.

i don't typically take sides.. i try to look at all angles, everything's a grey area for me. what one person benefits from, another suffers..

no one's right, and everyone has their own agenda.

i'm hoping we pursue a peaceful agenda and can take a longer-term view of that while flexing our military, economic, and political muscles to encourage peace.

Know how I know you are a moron?

[bangkok 89]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Your post was fine until you got to the “for all
If you saying peace isn’t possible.”
It’s possible. But it will only be possible when Putin realizes it’s his best option. Will Ukraine ultimately be willing Tom give up….something? Probably. It’s up to them.
Most all of us here are simply proposing “stay the course until Putin realizes that some sort of declaration of victory and making an acceptable deal” is his only real path.

peace for ukraine isn't necessarily or exclusively up to them, right now.

why? well, the support they've received from the west, from us, with weapons and sanctions, and with accepting their refugees isn't a one-way street.

we're not just supporting them blindly because we're united against russia, so they can choose their own path "up to them."

we have our say and our own agenda.

i also would suggest we have our say in steering putin towards his "best" option too. we can sort of say, "you're fucked dude, so back off or escalate and get fucked harder."

but say it nicely. don't bully and threaten. let our position of strength speak for itself.

that's a tougher line to walk, a more hardline approach, but we have options diplomatically.

we're supporting ukraine because a democratic ukraine supports our own ideals in a larger front and with longer term goals.

so our say ideally should be "make amends" and make those amends quite a tough pill to swallow to putin, but one where he can take home some semblance of pride and not tough enough to encourage him to escalate.

then support ukraine under the table with more weapons, financially, politically, to deter something like this happening again.

and also hope russia overthrows putin and finds a different path for their own future - idealistic, maybe, but give that best case scenario a chance to play out before looking towards an alternative.

[bangkok 89]

9 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Know how I know you are a moron?

right, because i don't think exactly as you do, i'm inferior?

[F250 28779]

6 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

You keep saying you’re the farthest thing from a conservative and then expressing very conservative foreign policy takes. Cmon man, just try it once. “All empire bad.” See how that feels.

MAC has always come across as more of a leftist progressive than a liberal. He definitely isn't a conservative and his views are not that different than the statement put out by the DSA or that of Bernie.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

20 minutes ago, bangkok said:

right, because i don't think exactly as you do, i'm inferior?

No, you’re just a moron. It’s like if you go around saying the Earth is flat. People won’t be calling you a moron because you don’t think exactly as they do. They’ll be calling you a moron because you’re a goddamn fool. And they’ll be right. 

[hookemATL 11758]

I’m sick of all this discrimination against ignorant morons with terrible takes. Justice will prevail!

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19103]

1 hour ago, bangkok said:

right, because i don't think exactly as you do, i'm inferior?

No, because you are stupid.  Your arguments are full of shit.  Also, way to go not voting.  You are a lazy motherfucker who preaches a bunch of bullshit but does not even bother to exercise their civic duty.  Go fuck yourself.

Edited March 26, 2022 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Macanudo 12989]

I

think

someone

hits

return

entirely

too

much

.

[Neonmoon 38129]

2 hours ago, bangkok said:

peace for ukraine isn't necessarily or exclusively up to them, right now.

why? well, the support they've received from the west, from us, with weapons and sanctions, and with accepting their refugees isn't a one-way street.

we're not just supporting them blindly because we're united against russia, so they can choose their own path "up to them."

we have our say and our own agenda.

i also would suggest we have our say in steering putin towards his "best" option too. we can sort of say, "you're fucked dude, so back off or escalate and get fucked harder."

but say it nicely. don't bully and threaten. let our position of strength speak for itself.

that's a tougher line to walk, a more hardline approach, but we have options diplomatically.

we're supporting ukraine because a democratic ukraine supports our own ideals in a larger front and with longer term goals.

so our say ideally should be "make amends" and make those amends quite a tough pill to swallow to putin, but one where he can take home some semblance of pride and not tough enough to encourage him to escalate.

then support ukraine under the table with more weapons, financially, politically, to deter something like this happening again.

and also hope russia overthrows putin and finds a different path for their own future - idealistic, maybe, but give that best case scenario a chance to play out before looking towards an alternative.

That’s a lot of words to say the West is the bad guy for helping Ukraine and we should give Putin an off ramp after committing genocide. 

[Fastbreak 3988]

This.
There's an amazing irony in Americans suggesting that Ukraine ought to be satisfied with forced neutrality or a limited military to appease an aggressive neighbor when not a single one of us, left or right, would listen to such bullshit for one second if it were pointed at America.

You obviously haven’t been around the QOP rubes. If they got a few chain emails, saw a few Facebook posts and watched ole Tucker talk about it, then about 37% of Americans would be down with being neutral or whatever other bullshit they are fed.

“You ever wonder why American isn’t forced to be neutral? I’m just asking questions here, but if you really think about it, it makes a lot of sense. And why are we called the “united” states? What if some states want to be separate? Isn’t that what freedom is all about? I bet if you looked into Hunter Biden’s laptop, you would find lots of information about how a non-neutral, united country is a good thing for Moscow. I’m just asking questions…”

[TexArcher 37977]

24 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

You obviously haven’t been around the QOP rubes. If they got a few chain emails, saw a few Facebook posts and watched ole Tucker talk about it, then about 37% of Americans would be down with being neutral or whatever other bullshit they are fed.

“You ever wonder why American isn’t forced to be neutral? I’m just asking questions here, but if you really think about it, it makes a lot of sense. And why are we called the “united” states? What if some states want to be separate? Isn’t that what freedom is all about? I bet if you looked into Hunter Biden’s laptop, you would find lots of information about how a non-neutral, united country is a good thing for Moscow. I’m just asking questions…”

Fuck, that's probably right.  Tucker and Ingraham could sell anything to their mob.

[Anastasis 23475]

6 hours ago, bangkok said:

i'm about as anti-war as one may be, and i also try to look at all sides of an issue.

i'm a skeptic. i've never voted.

i think we see a ton of misinformation, propaganda from all angles.

i hate the political climate of the states, which is part of why i live in bangkok.

i want to know what conservatives are spouting on an issue, and same with progressives.. i try to look at multiple news sources and opinions.

that said, trump was a horrible president, and his presidency influences putins actions today.

i don't typically take sides.. i try to look at all angles, everything's a grey area for me. what one person benefits from, another suffers..

no one's right, and everyone has their own agenda.

i'm hoping we pursue a peaceful agenda and can take a longer-term view of that while flexing our military, economic, and political muscles to encourage peace.

Dipshits here will neg this. 

[TexArcher 37977]

 

[SaucyJack 3488]

4 hours ago, bangkok said:

peace for ukraine isn't necessarily or exclusively up to them, right now.

why? well, the support they've received from the west, from us, with weapons and sanctions, and with accepting their refugees isn't a one-way street.

we're not just supporting them blindly because we're united against russia, so they can choose their own path "up to them."

we have our say and our own agenda.

i also would suggest we have our say in steering putin towards his "best" option too. we can sort of say, "you're fucked dude, so back off or escalate and get fucked harder."

but say it nicely. don't bully and threaten. let our position of strength speak for itself.

that's a tougher line to walk, a more hardline approach, but we have options diplomatically.

we're supporting ukraine because a democratic ukraine supports our own ideals in a larger front and with longer term goals.

so our say ideally should be "make amends" and make those amends quite a tough pill to swallow to putin, but one where he can take home some semblance of pride and not tough enough to encourage him to escalate.

then support ukraine under the table with more weapons, financially, politically, to deter something like this happening again.

and also hope russia overthrows putin and finds a different path for their own future - idealistic, maybe, but give that best case scenario a chance to play out before looking towards an alternative.

what do you think if we paint some of our fighter squadrons with chinese insignia and bomb the russians?

then tell putin it's the chinese..... then putin fights the chinese.

then we win and take the ladies on vacation

 

[TexArcher 37977]

I don't care for what I know of Adam Kinzinger's politics, but he seems to have a brain and a soul.  Maybe there is a sliver of hope that the GOP can be taken back from Boobert, MTG, and whatever monstrosity is coming next?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I don't care for what I know of Adam Kinzinger's politics, but he seems to have a brain and a soul.  Maybe there is a sliver of hope that the GOP can be taken back from Boobert, MTG, and whatever monstrosity is coming next?

LMAO, lol no sorry. John McCain is not walking through that door. I gave up on this pipe dream four years ago. The GOP is not redeemable in any foreseeable future. 

[TwiceHorn 31495]

23 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I don't care for what I know of Adam Kinzinger's politics, but he seems to have a brain and a soul.  Maybe there is a sliver of hope that the GOP can be taken back from Boobert, MTG, and whatever monstrosity is coming next?

Well, like all the "good" ones (overstatement), Kinzinger will not seek reelection.

So, no.

[BearSchlong 8098]

 

The Biden 82nd airborne pizza eating photo?

My son is in this photo.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19103]

47 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Dipshits here will neg this. 

Fuck you.  You try and act superior, but your shit is old and tired.

[Bama Chick 28596]

MAC has always come across as more of a leftist progressive than a liberal. He definitely isn't a conservative and his views are not that different than the statement put out by the DSA or that of Bernie.

The horseshoe theory isn’t total horseshit.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I don't care for what I know of Adam Kinzinger's politics, but he seems to have a brain and a soul.  Maybe there is a sliver of hope that the GOP can be taken back from Boobert, MTG, and whatever monstrosity is coming next?

Nah.

His voting record and positions on voting rights and many other things are total shit.

Old fashioned Republican shit but shit nonetheless.

[Underdog 28711]

39 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

The Biden 82nd airborne pizza eating photo?

My son is in this photo.

Fold it like a man, Joe! 

[Bullneck 19168]

13 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

That can be worked around, obviously. 

I think you got something wrong with you.

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

They lost another general?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60807538

 

Ukraine's defence ministry says another Russian general, Lt Gen Yakov Rezantsev, was killed in a strike near the southern city of Kherson. 

Rezantsev was the commander of Russia's 49th combined army.

A western official said he was the seventh general to die in Ukraine, and the second lieutenant general - the highest rank officer reportedly killed.

[HenryJames 66120]

1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

The Biden 82nd airborne pizza eating photo?

My son is in this photo.

You’re almost as old as @Armybrat.

[4th&Five 41558]

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

7 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

fuck you

[Pods 7585]

23 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

fuck you

Trump is a broken clock that is correct here though. The city bombing would have been unlikely if Trump was President. 

Putin wouldn't need to bomb them. Trump would have removed us from NATO and sided with Russia. There would have been grumbling from Europe, but they would have sat on their hands. 

Without the US Intel agencies calling Russia out before every move, and the Biden admin marshaling international consensus/weapons shipments/Intel sharing,Ukraine would have been left helpless. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

11 minutes ago, Pods said:

Without the US Intel agencies calling Russia out before every move, and the Biden admin marshaling international consensus/weapons shipments/Intel sharing,Ukraine would have been left helpless. 

I’m not so sure. The bordering NATO states would have helped Ukraine, Zelensky likely would have mobilized a resistance and/or insurgency if Putin succeed in winning quickly. Trump would have made it easier for Putin, a lot easier tho.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Pods 7585]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m not so sure. The bordering NATO states would have helped Ukraine, Zelensky likely would have mobilized a resistance and/or insurgency if Putin succeed in winning quickly. Trump would have made it easier for Putin, a lot easier tho.

Maybe. It didn't seem like anyone, but the US thought this was serious until it actually happened. 

Regardless, I'm glad we don't have to find out. 

[Anastasis 23475]

2 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Fuck you.  You try and act superior, but your shit is old and tired.

At least I am not a sociopath that hates children. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

29 minutes ago, Pods said:

Trump is a broken clock that is correct here though. 

 

"This would’ve never happened had the election not been rigged…"

No.

He's not.

Not even by accident.

He's actually the exception to the broken clock. 

[Fastbreak 3988]

The mypillow guy is days away from producing the evidence of the ejection being rigged. That 98% of the minimal fraud that has been reported was in favor of the QOP is inconsequential.