Ukraine War

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

On 3/27/2022 at 7:52 AM, cactusflinthead said:

 

I drove by this yesterday and it looks AWESOME! Like moving shit to see in person. 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I drove by this yesterday and it looks AWESOME! Like moving shit to see in person. 

He has several dealerships around DFW. They all have at least one. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, cactusflinthead said:

He has several dealerships around DFW. They all have at least one. 

I had no idea who was responsible for it until I saw it posted in here. Getting half a dozen+ Ukraine flags that size could not have been cheap.  

[TwiceHorn 31496]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I drove by this yesterday and it looks AWESOME! Like moving shit to see in person. 

It is, but the Ukrainian flags need to be lower on the poles than the US.

Cooley must be an interesting story.  Ten years ago, the guy had tote the note dealerships and Kia.  Now I think he has a dealership for most mainstream makes.

[TwiceHorn 31496]

54 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

I thought Penetrator rounds had multiple components, one being a softer alloy that would superheat and follow the penetrator head to bounce around the crew chamber?  

I did a little research on this because it's interesting to me.  Yes, there are artillery rounds that combine the purely kinetic energy of a high-velocity projectile with a shaped charge, so you get both effects, apparently.  When I say "purely kinetic," I am referring to the kinetic energy of the projectile itself.  The explosion is also kinetic, but I am excluding that.

The "HEAT" round combines both effects in most cases, I believe.  There are other anti-armor rounds, typically "sabot" projectiles, that rely solely on the kinetic energy of the projectile to penetrate armor and contain no explosive.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy_penetrator

A shaped charge can be effective without any kind of metal "liner." But a metallic liner on the inside of the shaped charge apparently really helps "focus" the energy of the explosion and contributes to the formation of a metal "carrot" that penetrates the armor.  There seems to be some debate whether that "carrot" is liquid or solid phase, or some combination.  I had called it "molten metal" previously, but that is apparently not completely accurate.

Edited March 31, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[jimmyjazz 45976]

9 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

So...I did this shit too...

Perhaps at a certain place in DFW???

No, at UT.  It started as my grad research and then I worked at the same lab as an engineer for 6 years after school.

[horn4life 3762]

After looking a bit online last night it seems like we should be pushing Harpoon Missiles into the hands of the good guys.  These are beyond the horizon. According to the video cost is about $1.4 million a shot.  Seems like a VERY cost effective way to disable some very expensive pieces of equipment. Unfortunately I have NO IDEA of what sort of anti-missile defense systems Russia has on it's ships.  But if they work as well as their ground force equipment, it may not take many shots to make real damage.

 

[TwiceHorn 31496]

24 minutes ago, horn4life said:

After looking a bit online last night it seems like we should be pushing Harpoon Missiles into the hands of the good guys.  These are beyond the horizon. According to the video cost is about $1.4 million a shot.  Seems like a VERY cost effective way to disable some very expensive pieces of equipment. Unfortunately I have NO IDEA of what sort of anti-missile defense systems Russia has on it's ships.  But if they work as well as their ground force equipment, it may not take many shots to make real damage.

 

Russia purportedly has some variation of the US Phalanx CIWS (radar guided "gatling" cannon). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashtan_CIWS

I doubt that it is on the transport vessels that Ukraine would initially target.  I don't know what warships are nearby them, though, and whether this is deployed on them.

[horn4life 3762]

19 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Russia purportedly has some variation of the US Phalanx CIWS (radar guided "gatling" cannon). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashtan_CIWS

I doubt that it is on the transport vessels that Ukraine would initially target.  I don't know what warships are nearby them, though, and whether this is deployed on them.

I saw "Hunter Killer" too!

[Walser 1109]

This is probably good for morale:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-troops-suffer-acute-radiation-sickness-after-digging-chernobyl-trenches?ref=scroll

Kids in the Russian army never having heard of the disaster there.

[Bullneck 19168]

7 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

I thought Penetrator rounds had multiple components, one being a softer alloy that would superheat and follow the penetrator head to bounce around the crew chamber?  

I'm sure JJ knows more about this than me.  The only other thing I think I remember was that the sabot rounds were not rifled.  They were smooth bore and used fins to stabilize in flight.  That's 100% of my tank killing knowledge, in no particular order.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

5 hours ago, Walser said:

This is probably good for morale:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-troops-suffer-acute-radiation-sickness-after-digging-chernobyl-trenches?ref=scroll

Kids in the Russian army never having heard of the disaster there.

is that last part true or conjecture?

Edited March 31, 2022 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Guest Lobo]

5 hours ago, Walser said:

This is probably good for morale:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-troops-suffer-acute-radiation-sickness-after-digging-chernobyl-trenches?ref=scroll

Kids in the Russian army never having heard of the disaster there.

I know a mining crew that could get that job done much safer, but they work nude and don't give fuck one about the ruling Party. 

[jimmyjazz 45976]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

I'm sure JJ knows more about this than me.  The only other thing I think I remember was that the sabot rounds were not rifled.  They were smooth bore and used fins to stabilize in flight.  That's 100% of my tank killing knowledge, in no particular order.

I don't know anything about sabot rounds beyond what we used them for in rail guns.  For one thing, rail guns are not (typically) rifled (I don't know if anyone has tried rifling).  Beyond that, the sabot (to my knowledge) was simply a "shuttle" that kept everything centered in the barrel and it peeled away in early flight.  

I was on the power supply (generator) side of things, I'm simply trying to relate what I observed.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

7 hours ago, Walser said:

This is probably good for morale:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-troops-suffer-acute-radiation-sickness-after-digging-chernobyl-trenches?ref=scroll

Kids in the Russian army never having heard of the disaster there.

Do none of them have HBO?

[Bama Chick 28596]

Y’all went two for two.

But why is Romney on there? Trolling?

[Anastasis 23475]

6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

But why is Romney on there? Trolling?

 

Cause it is Russian propaganda. And it gets lapped up around here when it serves certain political interests. While posting perspective from us diplomats and policy experts gets dismissed as kremlin talking points because they run contrary to those interests. Quite the world. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Anastasis

[Dahobbs 17625]

22 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Cause it is Russian propaganda. And it gets lapped up around here when it serves certain political interests. While posting perspective from us diplomats and policy experts gets dismissed as kremlin talking points because they run contrary to those interests. Quite the world. 

You'd be the first to describe Tucker Carlson that way. Whatever floats your boat man. 

[Anastasis 23475]

39 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You'd be the first to describe Tucker Carlson that way. Whatever floats your boat man. 

I am sorry that you do not pay attention to the exchanges here. 

[Dahobbs 17625]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I am sorry that you do not pay attention to the exchanges here. 

No one ever has any idea what you're talking about because you refuse to provide specifics. It is really weird. 

[Anastasis 23475]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

No one ever has any idea what you're talking about because you refuse to provide specifics. It is really weird. 

So instead of asking for some clarification or additional detail if you haven't been paying attention, you start talking to me about Tucker Carlson.  LOL. 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

Y'all I swear I will go get that tweet from CBS.

 

[Dahobbs 17625]

40 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

So instead of asking for some clarification or additional detail if you haven't been paying attention, you start talking to me about Tucker Carlson.  LOL. 

I've asked you for specifics in many threads, many times. I've come to understand that your posting style makes it impossible for you to provide them. You prefer insinuation and feeling superior to actually providing information, particularly when it comes to Russia. As I said, it is weird, but it is you. We'll take what we can get I suppose. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Dahobbs

[Anastasis 23475]

8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I've asked you for specifics in many threads, many times. I've come to understand that your posting style makes it impossible for you to provide them. You prefer insinuation and feeling superior to actually providing information, particularly when it comes to Russia. As I said, it is weird, but it is you. We'll take what we can get I suppose. 

Tucker Carlson!

[cactusflinthead 27601]

Tucker can fuck off.

[TwiceHorn 31496]

7 hours ago, Bullneck said:

I'm sure JJ knows more about this than me.  The only other thing I think I remember was that the sabot rounds were not rifled.  They were smooth bore and used fins to stabilize in flight.  That's 100% of my tank killing knowledge, in no particular order.

Small correction:  barrels are rifled, not projectiles.

Starting in the 60s, tanks basically stopped firing conventional projectiles, that is, hunks of metal the same diameter as a cannon bore that may or may not be filled with explosives or incendiary material, i.e. a cannonball, even if not spherical.

They started firing either sabot rounds, or shaped-charge HEAT rounds, or partially self-propelled and sometimes guided munitions more like a missile or rocket than a cannonball.

All of those type of projectiles need fins instead of  "spin stabilization" the way a bullet or conventional artillery shell does coming from a rifled barrel.  Consequently, tank cannon have been smoothbore (no rifling) since the 60s or 70s.

A "sabot round" is a high-kinetic-energy penetrator that needs to be relatively small diameter and long, which is why it doesn't spin stabilize well.  The sabot basically takes up the space between the small-diameter penetrator and the barrel bore.  It falls away shortly after firing, and fins deploy to stabilize the penetrator.

Shaped-charge projectiles don't work well if spinning, because the centrifugal force disperses the jet.  And self-propelled/guided shells need fins.

Edited April 1, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[956 Worldwide 34715]

7 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Y’all went two for two.
 

 

But why is Romney on there? Trolling?

 

I was doubtful about this one so I looked it up— these Senators aren’t particularly pro-Russian and the the word on the floor is “sanctions.”

Anyway, the screenshot is from 2019 and it has to do with R Senators that did not support a D bit to block Trump from lifting sanctions on Deripaska owned companies. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21202]

On 3/30/2022 at 10:28 PM, Sawbonz said:

So that’s why they want the govt to outlaw homosexuality 

[Huckleberry 32997]

13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

So instead of asking for some clarification or additional detail if you haven't been paying attention, you start talking to me about Tucker Carlson.  LOL. 

People frequently ask you to detail your position and that's when you ghost the thread for 3 days. Or post something dumb like this exchange:

13 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I've asked you for specifics in many threads, many times. I've come to understand that your posting style makes it impossible for you to provide them. You prefer insinuation and feeling superior to actually providing information, particularly when it comes to Russia. As I said, it is weird, but it is you. We'll take what we can get I suppose. 

 

13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Tucker Carlson!

You couldn't have possibly proven him more right if you'd tried. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Huckleberry

[Gil Bang 25975]

the ukrainians hit a russian fuel dump...in russia? 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

10 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

the ukrainians hit a russian fuel dump...in russia? 

appears so

 

[Sbbruin 21861]

On 3/31/2022 at 8:27 AM, Walser said:

This is probably good for morale:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-troops-suffer-acute-radiation-sickness-after-digging-chernobyl-trenches?ref=scroll

Kids in the Russian army never having heard of the disaster there.

You can get the Russian soldiers out of Chernobyl, but you can't get Chernobyl out of the Russian soldiers.

[Anastasis 23475]

26 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

People frequently ask you to detail your position and that's when you ghost the thread for 3 days.

Provide some specific examples with links of this frequent occurrence. 

  

26 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

You couldn't have possibly proven him more right if you'd tried. 

In the context of that exchange, I think that that was a pretty appropriate response. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Anastasis

[956 Worldwide 34715]

Great piece by Anne Applebaum in The Atlantic on the need for democracies to understand we are war.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/autocracy-could-destroy-democracy-russia-ukraine/629363/

Quote

Take democracy seriously. Teach it, debate it, improve it, defend it. Maybe there is no natural liberal world order, but there are liberal societies, open and free countries that offer a better chance for people to live useful lives than closed dictatorships do. They are hardly perfect; our own has deep flaws, profound divisions, terrible historical scars. But that’s all the more reason to defend and protect them. Few of them have existed across human history; many have existed for a time and then failed. They can be destroyed from the outside, but from the inside, too, by divisions and demagogues.

Perhaps, in the aftermath of this crisis, we can learn something from the Ukrainians. For decades now, we’ve been fighting a culture war between liberal values on the one hand and muscular forms of patriotism on the other. The Ukrainians are showing us a way to have both. As soon as the attacks began, they overcame their many political divisions, which are no less bitter than ours, and they picked up weapons to fight for their sovereignty and their democracy. They demonstrated that it is possible to be a patriot and a believer in an open society, that a democracy can be stronger and fiercer than its opponents. Precisely because there is no liberal world order, no norms and no rules, we must fight ferociously for the values and the hopes of liberalism if we want our open societies to continue to exist.

 

 

[Brisketexan 105155]

9 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Great piece by Anne Applebaum in The Atlantic on the need for democracies to understand we are war.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/autocracy-could-destroy-democracy-russia-ukraine/629363/

 

This is our concern, dude.

[Huckleberry 32997]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Provide some specific examples with links of this frequent occurrence. 

  

In the context of that exchange, I think that that was a pretty appropriate response. 

Links of you ghosting? Awesome request I'll get right on it. And of course you do. 

How about this? Post an example of your actual opinion being posted on this thread. 

[Anastasis 23475]

 

39 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Links of you ghosting? Awesome request I'll get right on it.

This is a pretty funny response in the context of an exchange where you are criticizing me for failure to be responsive to asks regarding details. More funny that you picked an exchange where Dahobbs invoked Tucker Carlson as your toe hold. You seem to pop up about every four weeks with something like this.  Last time it was because I was cracking on an Eric Swalwell tweet, another great toe hold picked there. Seems we get one of these little lashing outs on a cadence.  See you in another month when you repeat your cycle. 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Anastasis

[cactusflinthead 27601]

And elint gets salty about it

Well, that's where you're going. 

[Brisketexan 105155]

4 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Well, that's where you're going. 

Yep.  Make sure to write up that will, Yuri.  You're gonna need it.

Of course, note the reward of $100,000 for any Russian who surrenders with a piece of armored equipment.  Drive your BMP over to the other side, collect $100k, be richer than you ever imagined.  Do you even KNOW how many potatoes that's worth?

[Tuco 5076]

[/url] And elint gets salty about it
Well, that's where you're going. 

It will be interesting to see what happens with Putin’s support over the next couple of months. I have to think that for the average piece of shit Putin supporter, they saw this conflict as a war of convenience. Rah Rah, go kick some ass and demonstrate our superiority to the world. I wonder how many really saw it as such a threat they’re cool with Putin conscripting their sons and husbands?

[jimmyjazz 45976]

10 minutes ago, Tuco said:

It will be interesting to see what happens with Putin’s support over the next couple of months. I have to think that for the average piece of shit Putin supporter, they saw this conflict as a war of convenience. Rah Rah, go kick some ass and demonstrate our superiority to the world. I wonder how many really saw it as such a threat they’re cool with Putin conscripting their sons and husbands?

The numbers are interesting.  If wiki is to be believed, Russia has 1M active and 2M reserve personnel.  The population of Russia is 144M.  So, not a big fraction, right?  Well, if one drills down into age brackets, it becomes apparent that Russia only has 3.45M men between the ages of 20 and 24.  Obviously, their armed forces extend past that age group, and I assume some are female, but I'd bet a large fraction is roughly that age.

It wouldn't shock me if 2/3 of young Russian men are in the military.  That's hard to hide, regardless of how captive the state media is.  This could turn into a real shitshow for Putin.

Edited April 1, 2022 by jimmyjazz

[Woland 733]

The numbers are interesting.  If wiki is to be believed, Russia has 1M active and 2M reserve personnel.  The population of Russia is 144M.  So, not a big fraction, right?  Well, if one drills down into age brackets, it becomes apparent that Russia only has 3.45M men between the ages of 20 and 24.  Obviously, their armed forces extend past that age group, and I assume some are female, but I'd bet a large fraction is roughly that age.
It wouldn't shock me if 2/3 of young Russian men are in the military.  That's hard to hide, regardless of how captive the state media is.  This could turn into a real shitshow for Putin.

Add in the factor that anyone in the middle class has probably paid the bribes to stay out of the military.

[Macanudo 12989]

3 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

And elint gets salty about it

Well, that's where you're going. 

Yeah, Moose out front should have told ya!

[Hagbard Celine 10871]

7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

This is a pretty funny response in the context of an exchange where you are criticizing me for failure to be responsive to asks regarding details. More funny that you picked an exchange where Dahobbs invoked Tucker Carlson as your toe hold. You seem to pop up about every four weeks with something like this.  Last time it was because I was cracking on an Eric Swalwell tweet, another great toe hold picked there. Seems we get one of these little lashing outs on a cadence.  See you in another month when you repeat your cycle.

Dude.   Just humor us.  Satisfy the request.  Just post an opinion.  Something.  Anything.   Your take.  Nouns, and verbs.  Tangible.  Cite a primary source.

You can do it.

[Anastasis 23475]

1 minute ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Dude.   Just humor us.  Satisfy the request.  Just post an opinion.  Something.  Anything.   Your take.  Nouns, and verbs.  Tangible.  Cite a primary source.

You can do it.

Tell us more 9/11 truther. 

[Anastasis 23475]

 

 

 

  

On 10/14/2019 at 6:59 PM, Hagbard Celine said:

A solid majority of Americans who watch the Sept. 11, 2001, collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 on video don’t buy the government’s story that fires brought it down, according to a new survey conducted by YouGov.  Underscoring the absence of media coverage of Building 7, only 64% of participants said they were aware of a third skyscraper collapsing on 9/11 — and just 14% could name the building.

After viewing video footage of the controversial building collapse from four different angles, 52% of Americans who participated in the survey are either sure or suspect it was caused by a controlled demolition, compared to 21% who are sure or suspect it was caused by ordinary fires. A sizable 27% say they don’t know.

yougov slides: https://www.ae911truth.org/images/PDFs/Slides-for-AE911Truth-WTC7-202-8232019.pdf

 

[956 Worldwide 34715]

6 hours ago, Woland said:

Add in the factor that anyone in the middle class has probably paid the bribes to stay out of the military.

This is one of the few areas where I can say that Putin managed to put a dent in the system.  It used to be, before about 2010, that anyone with money and a sense of self-preservation managed to buy a medical exemption for their healthy, athletic sons and the army was full of the unfit and poor.  They really did start cracking down on that and most people do their mandatory service.  I saw it happen myself with a family that was solidly upper-middle class and had a son they insisted would stay out, but he ended up doing his stint. The winding down of Chechnya ops helped a lot with this, and a desultory crackdown on the brutal hazing that used to be a feature of conscript service. 

I expect the attempts to stay out to go up now that there is a real war on. 

[956 Worldwide 34715]

11 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

This is our concern, dude.

I am more interested in the prescriptive side of this essay.  I know we will likely see a defense boost.  I do not know if we are prepared to return to a war footing when it comes to messaging and cultural diplomacy.  This is badly, badly needed and it’s going to run into opponents on both sides of the aisle.  To the below prescription I would say— we need a concerted investment in technology to make getting around firewalls and censors safe and easy.

 

Quote

If we don’t have any means to deliver our messages to the autocratic world, then no one will hear them. Much as we assembled the Department of Homeland Security out of disparate agencies after 9/11, we now need to pull together the disparate parts of the U.S. government that think about communication, not to do propaganda but to reach more people around the world with better information and to stop autocracies from distorting that knowledge. Why haven’t we built a Russian-language television station to compete with Putin’s propaganda? Why can’t we produce more programming in Mandarin—or Uyghur? Our foreign-language broadcasters—Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Radio Free Asia, Radio Martí in Cuba—need not only money for programming but a major investment in research. We know very little about Russian audiences—what they read, what they might be eager to learn.

Funding for education and culture needs rethinking too. Shouldn’t there be a Russian-language university, in Vilnius or Warsaw, to house all the intellectuals and thinkers who have just left Moscow? Don’t we need to spend more on education in Arabic, Hindi, Persian? So much of what passes for cultural diplomacy runs on autopilot. Programs should be recast for a different era, one in which, though the world is more knowable than ever before, dictatorships seek to hide that knowledge from their citizens.

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

14 hours ago, Anastasis said:

 

This is a pretty funny response in the context of an exchange where you are criticizing me for failure to be responsive to asks regarding details. More funny that you picked an exchange where Dahobbs invoked Tucker Carlson as your toe hold. You seem to pop up about every four weeks with something like this.  Last time it was because I was cracking on an Eric Swalwell tweet, another great toe hold picked there. Seems we get one of these little lashing outs on a cadence.  See you in another month when you repeat your cycle. 

 

That's his MO, jump in on a group of exchanges where he hasn't even been following it to call you out when his little cabal buddy probably was the original OP about something he tries to criticize you for.  It's the circle the wagons cabal move 102.4.5.a (the old asking you if you still beat your wife trick).