Ukraine War

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

56 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

There are two layers to this war. There is Russia vs Ukraine on top and bubbling under that a vicious, Balkans-style civil war, just as in the American Civil War, you had some areas like the Appalachians and Bleeding Kansas / Missouri where the rules were different and the war far, far more brutal. 

Also, there is a real vanity of small differences issue with the Slavic people. There was a considerable schism once in the Russian Orthodox church over whether believers should cross themselves with three fingers or two. 

Yeah, this isn’t peacenik shit. This is straight up “how can I try and use Solovyov themes on an American message board.”

[immamac 42,519]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

There are two layers to this war. There is Russia vs Ukraine on top and bubbling under that a vicious, Balkans-style civil war, just as in the American Civil War, you had some areas like the Appalachians and Bleeding Kansas / Missouri where the rules were different and the war far, far more brutal. 

Also, there is a real vanity of small differences issue with the Slavic people. There was a considerable schism once in the Russian Orthodox church over whether believers should cross themselves with three fingers or two. 

Congratulations you have earned a vacation for your stupid victim blaming. 

[immamac 42,519]

And for any people who think I'm just picking people I disagree with and banning them in "chicken shit" moves. 

There is no room for discussion on this being a "layered" conflict. This is a sovereign nation invaded by a superpower armed with nuclear weapons. If you don't believe that or want to spout views that support anything other than Russia being a clear aggressor this isn't the site for you to get updates or participate in the discussion around this topic. 

[Mdhorn 5,911]

Immamac putting his foot down on using this thread to spread Russian propaganda. Think I like this.

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

If you’re looking for an explanation of Russian troops’ atrocious behavior, it’s not super complicated.  They murdered civilians because they were told to and that was always the plan.  They rape and steal because they can. 
 

Nothing unique to Russians about the raping and stealing.  We in the West are the weird ones.  For most of recorded history, warfare meant raping and looting for soldiers and it still means that in most of the world.  The concept of justice in the conduct of war and a strict separation between combatants and civilians rose in tandem with the notion of arms as a profession and uniquely western ethical and religious ways of thinking.  It may be part of codified international law but it’s only part of the West’s way of thinking.

This isn’t a pat on the back, by the way. It is in many ways a reaction to a uniquely intense and comprehensive Western form of warfare that we also invented. 

[wildcat09 29,256]

Anastasis-like commitment to the bit, here. 

[Captainant 27,463]

7 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Immamac putting his foot down on using this thread to spread Russian propaganda. Think I like this.

It's refreshing to once again have a shared reality and set of facts. Even moreso to finally see it acknowledged that earnest but really really dumb people can still poison a discussion and propogate fictional narratives that eat up the oxygen for discussion

[RomaVicta 29,792]

12 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Religion can be a tool for indoctrination of a moral code on a society but the problem with religion is people throughout history just keep creating new ones, and they have taken on an adversarial existence with each other.

Actually, religious wars start with the revealed religions such as Christianity and Islam. Rome would adopt other gods and the Greeks just made equivalents of them. Conquered peoples often thought their gods were weaker than the conquerors and adopted the stronger ones. 

I don't think China or Japan ever attacked anybody for religious reasons. I'm pretty sure religious strife in India begins with the spread of Islam although I'm ignorant of Seikh history or their religious beliefs. [A brief trip to Wikipedia reveals that they are also a revealed religion dating to the the 1400s.]

Once God reveals himself through a prophet, how can one do anything other than do what he believes God's will to be? Free the Holy Land from evil. Kill the evil infidels. Crash a plane into a skyscraper.

But this is a derailment. I apologize. As to the song, it's a pretty tune but the hypocrisy of a multi-millionaire living on an entire floor of the Dakota in NYC singing, "imagine no possessions" always hits a sour note. Lennon was great. It still hurts my soul that he fought so hard to become an American then he ended up getting gunned down here. Horrible.

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Anastasis-like commitment to the bit, here. 

“Russia didn’t do it and if they did America made them.” 
 

This is the good shit, here. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,712]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

Actually, religious wars start with the revealed religions such as Christianity and Islam.

Don’t let Judaism off the hook. They came first. Without them we wouldn’t have Christianity or Islam.

[horn4life 3,755]

Just sort of an interesting map overlay for "If Austin were Kyiv."

 

I wish the map was positioned more with the Texas coast lining up with the Ukrainian coast.  Then I could envision Abilene as Kyiv, and Houston Mariupol, then placind Austin more where Dnipro is.  Anyhow sort of interesting visually.  https://www.yahoo.com/news/austin-were-kyiv-ukraine-map-144523602.html

 

I

[SimonBolivar 10,931]

I'm guessing that they thought about that but Killeen as Chernobyl was too perfect.

[Macanudo 12,927]

5 minutes ago, horn4life said:

Just sort of an interesting map overlay for "If Austin were Kyiv."

 

I wish the map was positioned more with the Texas coast lining up with the Ukrainian coast.  Then I could envision Abilene as Kyiv, and Houston Mariupol, then placind Austin more where Dnipro is.  Anyhow sort of interesting visually.  https://www.yahoo.com/news/austin-were-kyiv-ukraine-map-144523602.html

 

I

So this means we can let Oklahoma have DFW.   Let's think that over.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

2 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I'm guessing that they thought about that but Killeen as Chernobyl was too perfect.

As someone who grew up in Belton, that isn't far off.  

[Neonmoon 38,127]

I was thinking that Mauripol was Houston and the Donbas region was the inbreeds of East Texas

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

Here are some Russians protesting in Prague a few weeks ago. No one gave them a hard time. Spot the difference.

Edit: Meant for DT thread. Still worthwhile to note here. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by 956 Worldwide

[Caponata 151]

12 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

From the very beginning of Russia's invasion he immediately began questioning any pro-Ukraine propaganda while attempting to spread Russian propaganda. 

The best possibility for him would be that he's just a very, very stupid person. 

A stupid person believes someone piloting a Mig shot down 6+ superior aircraft in dog fights ala Top Gun. Sorry if that pissed you I questioned that story. I get it, it's ok bc it boosts morale. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

17 minutes ago, Caponata said:

A stupid person believes someone piloting a Mig shot down 6+ superior aircraft in dog fights ala Top Gun. Sorry if that pissed you I questioned that story. I get it, it's ok bc it boosts morale. 

ok, comrade. we get it, you love Russia. go somewhere else.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,668]

9 minutes ago, Caponata said:

A stupid person believes someone piloting a Mig shot down 6+ superior aircraft in dog fights ala Top Gun. Sorry if that pissed you I questioned that story. I get it, it's ok bc it boosts morale. 

lol.  i said ghost of kiev was bullshit the second it was posted, but no one thinks of me as somehow in lock step with tucker "why shouldn't i root for russia, which i am" carlson. 

 

 

perhaps its your nonstop whataboutisms that are driving the label.

 

 

 

[bolverk 29,399]

1 hour ago, horn4life said:

Just sort of an interesting map overlay for "If Austin were Kyiv."

 

I wish the map was positioned more with the Texas coast lining up with the Ukrainian coast.  Then I could envision Abilene as Kyiv, and Houston Mariupol, then placind Austin more where Dnipro is.  Anyhow sort of interesting visually.  https://www.yahoo.com/news/austin-were-kyiv-ukraine-map-144523602.html

 

I

There's an app for that. Have fun comparing Texas to other countries. Just click on Texas and drag it around.

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

22 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

lol.  i said ghost of kiev was bullshit the second it was posted, but no one thinks of me as somehow in lock step with tucker "why shouldn't i root for russia, which i am" carlson. 

 

 

perhaps its your nonstop whataboutisms that are driving the label.

 

 

 

We are well over a month into the war and the worst Ukrainian propaganda/disinfo is about an awesome fighter pilot with a cool nickname and about some guys who turned out not to be dead after telling Russia to fuck off.

The worst Russian propaganda is all about how they didn’t do war crimes that they clearly did.

['stache 21,774]

1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We are well over a month into the war and the worst Ukrainian propaganda/disinfo is about an awesome fighter pilot with a cool nickname and about some guys who turned out not to be dead after telling Russia to fuck off.

The worst Russian propaganda is all about how they didn’t do war crimes that they clearly did.

"The Ghost" was also always reported as unconfirmed, so yeah, most of us knew it was likely some folk legend stuff, but still inspiring for a nation that needed some uplifting stuff having been directly attacked and fighting off a much larger invading force.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We are well over a month into the war and the worst Ukrainian propaganda/disinfo is about an awesome fighter pilot with a cool nickname and about some guys who turned out not to be dead after telling Russia to fuck off.

The worst Russian propaganda is all about how they didn’t do war crimes that they clearly did.

and still continue to do

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

Russia has defaulted on their foreign debt.

[RomaVicta 29,792]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Don’t let Judaism off the hook. They came first. Without them we wouldn’t have Christianity or Islam.

I don't know much about the biblical history of Israel who were sometimes conquerors and sometimes conquered. I didn't get the idea that the wars were over spreading a religion so much as protecting it. They were religious odd ducks on the Med. 

I suppose their geography between the ancient and more recent powers to the east and west (Egypt, Parthia, Persia, etc.) may have contained any effort to spread Judaism.

Oh yea, this is the Ukraine War thread. I will add that I'm not ruling out the option of using US/NATO forces to end the killing. While Ukraine is winning, the need isn't there. If Russia continues destroying the cities and people within their lines, I think action may be called for.

Objections to this would be the Russian people buying into Putin's lies about the war and getting really really mad about it. I find myself not caring. Their emotions won't make their fighting forces any better.

Nuclear war? I think the risk is very low, but any risk is to be weighed seriously. Does Putin really want to go out in a ball of fire? He's not hopeless Hitler in a bunker with angry Soviet soldiers just hundreds of yards away. He can still have a great life and likely hold power.

I think Biden has played this war very well. I trust his judgment and the intelligence available to him that's not available to me.

[Mdhorn 5,911]

4 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Russia has defaulted on their foreign debt.

[Gil Bang 25,898]

haha fuck that guy

 

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,810]

21 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Russia has defaulted on their foreign debt.

They're the Trump of "superpowers".  

[Dnaguy 11,775]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

haha fuck that guy

 

 

 

This guy looks like the love child of two of the 80's most hated movie villains:

1.) Ivan Drago from Rocky IV

and

2.) Generic rich 80's bully

[Gap03 3,286]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

haha fuck that guy

 

 

They should definitely use those assets first to reimburse all the other F1 drivers for the damage he's done to their cars with his shitty-ass driving. 

[SKJ 1,305]

I doubt that the Russians could even fucking fire a nuke. The oligarchs have siphoned off most of their military budget and destroyed most of their capabilities. This is why Trump was in love with them.  He wanted so badly to turn us into an oligarchy. 

I'm not saying we should gamble with the idea of nuclear war,  but I'd bet that they have fucked up most of their launch capabilities with their habit of stealing all of their money and not taking care of the upkeep 

[Mdhorn 5,911]

nm

Edited April 11, 2022 by Mdhorn

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

23 minutes ago, SKJ said:

I doubt that the Russians could even fucking fire a nuke. The oligarchs have siphoned off most of their military budget and destroyed most of their capabilities. This is why Trump was in love with them.  He wanted so badly to turn us into an oligarchy. 

I'm not saying we should gamble with the idea of nuclear war,  but I'd bet that they have fucked up most of their launch capabilities with their habit of stealing all of their money and not taking care of the upkeep 

Plenty of the systems they have used in Ukraine are nuclear capable. 

[InkaUtexas 25,518]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Plenty of the systems they have used in Ukraine are nuclear capable. 

And their bomber corps. Bears and Backfires are nuke capable. 

[immamac 42,519]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Plenty of the systems they have used in Ukraine are nuclear capable. 

60-70% of their munitions we're undetonated something completely absurd enough for the US DOD representative to be comfortable sharing that. 

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

And their bomber corps. Bears and Backfires are nuke capable. 

And submarines. I'm not convinced that they have a free range sub that we don't have eyes on. I know we talk a lot about not being able to deal with them after launch, but the easiest way to stop a nuke is before, during or right after launch. I don't think we talk about our capability there for very obvious reasons, but that's a MUCH easier thing to stop, the hard part is the surveillance and quick action on launch, not the intercept, which becomes near impossible pretty quickly and only becomes possible again at the re-entry phase basically. 

I don't want to play nuclear chicken, but if they are using chemical weapons and committing rampant genocide how many fucking signs do we need before they are going to use a tactical lower yield nuke? It's almost certainty at this point.

[WhatTheBuck 28,712]

3 hours ago, SKJ said:

I doubt that the Russians could even fucking fire a nuke. The oligarchs have siphoned off most of their military budget and destroyed most of their capabilities. This is why Trump was in love with them.  He wanted so badly to turn us into an oligarchy. 

I'm not saying we should gamble with the idea of nuclear war,  but I'd bet that they have fucked up most of their launch capabilities with their habit of stealing all of their money and not taking care of the upkeep 

I think MAD is still a thing. I don’t want nuclear war. But the Russians play chess, Americans play poker. It’s easy to be an armchair QB but I think we should call Putin’s bluff and put our nuclear arsenal on full alert. Get all of our targeting in order. Place nuclear armed subs in the region. Make it clear to Putin that he’s a dead man if he fires off a nuke and Moscow will get turned into a barren wasteland. We can bluff better than they can.

[Hookah Horns 3,081]

It's time to give the Ukrainians all the weapons they want within reason. I understand a limiting factor is the knowledge of how to use various systems. But we shouldn't be afraid of "offensive" weapons. Short of us hooking them up with WMD, I don't see it making a shit whether we cross some arbitrary line like offensive/defensive weapons. 

 

Fuck it, give them all the advanced shit. Sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads, whatever. I bet they could learn how to use it on YouTube, you can learn anything on YouTube. 

[atomheartbevo 89,447]

45 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

It's time to give the Ukrainians all the weapons they want within reason. I understand a limiting factor is the knowledge of how to use various systems. But we shouldn't be afraid of "offensive" weapons. Short of us hooking them up with WMD, I don't see it making a shit whether we cross some arbitrary line like offensive/defensive weapons. 

Fuck it, give them all the advanced shit. Sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads, whatever. I bet they could learn how to use it on YouTube, you can learn anything on YouTube. 

One constraint that I think is pretty logical, is the systems that require serious infrastructure, like aircraft.  One of the American military leaders made a point that they'll gladly ship just about anything to Ukraine that can be carried in by truck or by person, as those systems/weapons are harder for the Russians to destroy, but when you start getting into aircraft that run into the tens of millions of dollars, you are tying them down to airbases, and both the aircraft and bases can be destroyed.  It would be a tough pill to swallow if we gave them a bunch of aircraft, and then they were destroyed within days.

And anything that big and bold is going to draw a lot of Russian firepower from the very beginning, and they will do everything they can to destroy such systems because it'd be a huge win for them psychologically, and also a warning to us not to do it.  They aren't wasting their time trying to hit trucks going into and out of Poland/Romania because they don't know whether they are hitting a shipment of NLAWs or Javelins, or cases of beans or bags of rice or whatever, and it's risky for them to operate aircraft that far west (can't use cruise missiles against truck convoys).  Anything that's in a fixed position is going to draw cruise missiles, but even those are getting shot down.

And the Ukrainians don't have the aircraft to drop Harpoons, etc.

Helicopters though...I've wonder about that.  They require some infrastructure but not full-blown airbases. 

And there are systems like this that could be used against ships:

https://www.navylookout.com/the-martlet-missile-wildcat-helicopter-gets-its-claws/

 

[Nivek 16,859]

It's time to give the Ukrainians all the weapons they want within reason. I understand a limiting factor is the knowledge of how to use various systems. But we shouldn't be afraid of "offensive" weapons. Short of us hooking them up with WMD, I don't see it making a shit whether we cross some arbitrary line like offensive/defensive weapons. 
 
Fuck it, give them all the advanced shit. Sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads, whatever. I bet they could learn how to use it on YouTube, you can learn anything on YouTube. 

Bat bombs it is.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

60-70% of their munitions we're undetonated something completely absurd enough for the US DOD representative to be comfortable sharing that. 

And submarines. I'm not convinced that they have a free range sub that we don't have eyes on. I know we talk a lot about not being able to deal with them after launch, but the easiest way to stop a nuke is before, during or right after launch. I don't think we talk about our capability there for very obvious reasons, but that's a MUCH easier thing to stop, the hard part is the surveillance and quick action on launch, not the intercept, which becomes near impossible pretty quickly and only becomes possible again at the re-entry phase basically. 

I don't want to play nuclear chicken, but if they are using chemical weapons and committing rampant genocide how many fucking signs do we need before they are going to use a tactical lower yield nuke? It's almost certainty at this point.

 

I've read some stuff that says their subs are as good if not quieter than ours. I take those articles with large grains of salt. I have little faith in Russians doing anything of quality except vodka, and caviar.

I'd agree with most everything up till the use of a battlefield nuke. I think that's a gamble they don't have the balls to use. At that point it does become the entire world vs them, and NATO would have a retaliation move up their sleeve.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

 

 

[Pods 7,528]

26 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

 

That ape toed quarter-wit needs to shut the fuck up. 

[TexArcher 37,518]

34 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

 

MTG is the ou of human beings.

 

[Neonmoon 38,127]

Technically we’ve reached Idiocracy, right?

[Sawbonz 27,434]

12 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Actually, religious wars start with the revealed religions such as Christianity and Islam.

Yeah no. 

[Brisketexan 104,624]

Technically we’ve reached Idiocracy, right?

Dude….Idiocracy is so far in our rear view mirror we can’t even see it from here. And Luke Wilson ain’t coming to save us.

[Pods 7,528]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude….Idiocracy is so far in our rear view mirror we can’t even see it from here. And Luke Wilson ain’t coming to save us.

Also, where are we going to find a prostitute with a heart of gold at this hour? Oh, that's right...Westheimer. 

 

[The Dog 43,805]

2 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

 

1. could it be more obvious that she's being handled by an FSB officer?

2. Republicans are generally more hawkish than Democrats, so this isn't a position she's going to be able to hold for long if she wants to keep her job IMHO.

[Blotto 23,434]

29 minutes ago, The Dog said:

1. could it be more obvious that she's being handled by an FSB officer?

2. Republicans are generally more hawkish than Democrats, so this isn't a position she's going to be able to hold for long if she wants to keep her job IMHO.

You and I must not be following the same republican party. Once Cheeto Benito starts adorning his maga hats with a hammer and sickle, the rest of the party will lineup behind him.

[The Dog 43,805]

1 minute ago, Blotto said:

You and I must not be following the same republican party. Once Cheeto Benito starts adorning his maga hats with a hammer and sickle, the rest of the party will lineup behind him.

Not really:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumpworld-figures-go-into-meltdown-after-donald-trump-endorses-dr-oz-in-pennsylvania-senate-race

I get it but they like Trump because he did what they wanted - not the other way around.