Ukraine War

[Mdhorn 5970]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

They'd be spineless if they were refusing to make a stand that they know they should make. Also, as you well know, priniciples need not be virtuous or even good. 

Their guiding principles are demonstrated just about every day. The status of their spines regarding Trump is indeed weak to non-existent. However, they've been part of a much more subtle and insidious brand of what has become known as Trumpism for decades.

It takes spine to want to subvert the democratic government of your own country. If self-interest and will to power at all costs form the foundation of your guiding principles, then your spine and values are aligned.

They are boldly taking this country in broad daylight.

I wish they were spineless and aimless, but they're not.

They are spineless but not aimless--they worship money.  But following a 5 time military deferrer states that they will not fight for it.  Trump got others to fight his battles as did MTG and others.  They went awol during the event.  Currently, they are trying to grift commie countries.  Highest bidders come on down and subvert some democracy.   

[Fastbreak 3988]

You are right. They do stand strong.

Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) said Sunday that the United States needs to accept that Ukraine will likely need to “cede some territory” to Russia to end the fighting.
Vance told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union” that he is opposed to sending more aid to Ukraine because he does not believe the country will ever be able to overpower Russia. He questioned why sending billions in aid to Ukraine is going to help the country at this point in its war against Russia, considering previous aid has yet to end the war.

Unfortunately they stand for Russia and Putin.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

16 hours ago, bolverk said:

Republicans to meet allies of Hungary’s Viktor Orbán on ending Ukraine aid
Hungarian appearance at two-day event part of Orbán’s transatlantic attempt to bolster Russia’s war

Allies of Hungary’s far-right prime minister Viktor Orbán will hold a closed-door meeting with Republicans in Washington to push for an end to US military support for Ukraine, the Guardian has learned.

Members of the Hungarian Institute of International Affairs and staff from the Hungarian embassy in Washington will on Monday begin a two-day event hosted by the conservative Heritage Foundation thinktank.

The first day includes panel speeches about the Ukraine war as well as topics such as Transatlantic Culture Wars. It is expected to feature guests including Magor Ernyei, the international director of the Centre for Fundamental Rights, the institute that organized CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) Hungary. Kelley Currie, a former ambassador under then president Donald Trump, said she was invited “but declined”.

According to a Republican source, some of the attendees, including Republican members of Congress, have been invited to join closed-door talks the next day.

The meeting will take place against a backdrop of tense debate in Washington over Ukraine’s future. Last week the White House warned that, without congressional action, money to buy more weapons and equipment for Kyiv will run out by the end of the year. On Wednesday Senate Republicans blocked an emergency spending bill to fund the war in Ukraine.

A diplomatic source close to the Hungarian embassy said: “Orbán is confident that the Ukraine aid will not pass in Congress. That is why he is trying to block assistance from the EU as well.”

Orbán is a frequent critic of aid to help Ukraine against the Russian invasion. Seen as Vladimir Putin’s closest ally inside the EU for the past few years, he was photographed smiling and shaking hands with the Russian president two months ago in Beijing.

Orbán recently demanded that Ukraine’s European Union (EU) membership be taken off the European Council’s agenda in December. The Hungarian leader posted on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter: “It is clear that the proposal of the European Commission on Ukraine’s EU accession is unfounded and poorly prepared.”

The Heritage Foundation is leading Project 2025, a coalition preparing for the next conservative presidential administration, and has in recent months hosted speeches by leading British Conservative party members Liz Truss and Iain Duncan Smith.

The thinktank has also been a vocal opponent of US assistance to Ukraine. Last year Jessica Anderson, the executive director of its lobbying operation, released a statement under the headline: “Ukraine Aid Package Puts America Last.” In August, Victoria Coates, Heritage’s vice-president, posted on social media: “It’s time to end the blank, undated checks for Ukraine.”

When Heritage celebrated its 50th anniversary last April, Orbán’s political director, Balázs Orbán (no relation), was invited as a speaker for the event. Heritage’s president, Kevin Roberts, repeatedly praised the Hungarian leader on X: “One thing is clear from visiting Hungary and from being involved in current policy and cultural debates in America: the world needs a movement that fights for Truth, for tradition, for families, and for the average person.”

In recent years Orbán has championed a transatlantic far-right alliance with a hardline stance against immigration and “gender ideology”, staunch Christian nationalism and scorn for those who warn of a slide into authoritarianism.

Hungary has been portrayed by conservative media as an anti-“woke” paradise and model for the United States. Some far-right Republicans, such as Kari Lake and Paul Gosar, said they would like to see the “Hungarian model” transplanted to the US, especially when it comes to immigration and family policies. CPAC went to Hungary for the second time this year, and former Fox News host Tucker Carlson shot multiple episodes in Hungary touting Orbán policies.

Orbán has returned the favour by lavishing praise on Trump. During this year’s CPAC, where Roberts was also featured as a speaker, he claimed that if Trump were president, “there would be no war in Ukraine and Europe”. The Hungarian prime minister has criticised the multiple federal indictments against the former US president and called the judicial procedure a “very communist methodology” in a recent interview with Carlson.

Dalibor Rohac, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute thinktank in Washington, said: “The Hungarian embassy in DC has been very active lately, trying to repair ties with the Republicans and strengthen them where it’s appropriate.

“It is also not surprising that Heritage is the venue of these talks because they are different from other thinktanks in DC; they are more partisan, and their funding model heavily overlaps with the Trump base.”

But, Rohac said, despite his good relations with some Republicans it was “unlikely” that Orbán would have any leverage over US funding for Ukraine.

Supporters of Ukraine have also been making their case to Republicans in Congress. This week David Cameron, the British foreign secretary, held meetings on Capitol Hill. He told a press conference: “I am sure that goodwill will prevail and the money will be voted through, and it will have a huge effect not just on morale in Ukraine but also making sure that European countries keep asking themselves what more can they do.”

Which Republican members of Congress are attending? Or are there only invitations? We need better reporting on this.

Also, fuck the Heritage Foundation. 

[RomaVicta 29929]

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

You are right. They do stand strong.
 

 

Unfortunately they stand for Russia and Putin.

 

Exactly. You can hardly say their attempt to at least subvert representative democracy is not without risk. The GOP's criminal organization modus operandi is a unified effort.

They are without decency, honor, honesty, or empathy. 

[956 Worldwide 34715]

History will remember these people like they do the America First crowd before WWII.  Orban and all who associate with him are garbage people. 
 

At the end of the war, Ezra Pound found himself locked in a cage in Italy while the army thought about what to do with him. They eventually let him out to go to an insane asylum. He ended his life an unrepentant fascist.

 

A fate too kind for these creatures. 

[956 Worldwide 34715]

We need more Rand Paul’s neighbor in this world.

 

[Chad Fuck 17684]

We need more Rand Paul’s neighbor in this world.
 

He is the epitome of the privileged white southern male. The worst of frat daddy fuck boys.

No wonder Kentucky is such a meth addled shit hole. And I come from East Texas. I know all about it.

[956 Worldwide 34715]

I am watching the utterly shameful display by GOP leadership today and their pitiful and disgusting linkage of whether Ukrainians get to survive or not to how bad Mexicans and Guatemalans are.  I’m watching the completely pathetic sight of the leader of the free world begging these creatures for .33 percent of GDP so the United States of Fucking America can beat Russia on the battlefield without firing a shot, and how happy they are to get this moment. 
 

America is fucked, y’all.  We are used to high-flown rhetoric, but it is not inaccurate to call this fight the defining moment of a generation.  We have the choice to show that the American century can continue, that the Free World is stronger than awful and absurd strongman sanctuaries that make no pretense of having any sort of ethos beyond repression.

And we’re going to lose. We’ve chosen to lose as a nation. Not just the array of clown-ass GOP voters, even those who say they support aid but haven’t made a bit of noise about it. Who will poll the lever with a shiteating grin, knowing that we are going to let Russia win, but maybe we will own some libs. We also have the milquetoast D leadership that had every chance to win this thing but erred on the side of escalation management and the absurdly facile belief that on this issue they could get the GOP to do the right thing.  

Trump may be right about one thing, we’re tired of winning. As a country, we’re tired of winning. Our best and brightest are paralyzed by fears and nuance and our stupidest and worst are the boldest and most willing to play for keeps. And so we’re going to lose. We got tired of winning, and so like a stupid and spoiled child who breaks his toy just because he got bored with it, we  are taking a hammer to the world we built just for the smug satisfaction of it. And the people who can stop it are watching and tutting, that Jimmy simply mustn’t do that, isn’t he naughty. 
 

Fuck this. 

[InkaUtexas 25986]

33 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I am watching the utterly shameful display by GOP leadership today and their pitiful and disgusting linkage of whether Ukrainians get to survive or not to how bad Mexicans and Guatemalans are.  I’m watching the completely pathetic sight of the leader of the free world begging these creatures for .33 percent of GDP so the United States of Fucking America can beat Russia on the battlefield without firing a shot, and how happy they are to get this moment. 
 

America is fucked, y’all.  We are used to high-flown rhetoric, but it is not inaccurate to call this fight the defining moment of a generation.  We have the choice to show that the American century can continue, that the Free World is stronger than awful and absurd strongman sanctuaries that make no pretense of having any sort of ethos beyond repression.

And we’re going to lose. We’ve chosen to lose as a nation. Not just the array of clown-ass GOP voters, even those who say they support aid but haven’t made a bit of noise about it. Who will poll the lever with a shiteating grin, knowing that we are going to let Russia win, but maybe we will own some libs. We also have the milquetoast D leadership that had every chance to win this thing but erred on the side of escalation management and the absurdly facile belief that on this issue they could get the GOP to do the right thing.  

Trump may be right about one thing, we’re tired of winning. As a country, we’re tired of winning. Our best and brightest are paralyzed by fears and nuance and our stupidest and worst are the boldest and most willing to play for keeps. And so we’re going to lose. We got tired of winning, and so like a stupid and spoiled child who breaks his toy just because he got bored with it, we  are taking a hammer to the world we built just for the smug satisfaction of it. And the people who can stop it are watching and tutting, that Jimmy simply mustn’t do that, isn’t he naughty. 
 

Fuck this. 

My mother was a diplomat for the US. This is not the nation she represented.

My son called and said WTF is going on.

I had no words.

[InkaUtexas 25986]

10 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We need more Rand Paul’s neighbor in this world.

 

So this fucker never heard about conferences with FDR?

[27-25 2047]

41 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

So this fucker never heard about conferences with FDR?

What are these jokers doing vacationing in Tehran in 1943?  Don't they know there's a war going on?!?!?!?

 

[Boss Hogg 808]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

am watching the utterly shameful display by GOP leadership today and their pitiful and disgusting linkage of whether Ukrainians get to survive or not to how bad Mexicans and Guatemalans are.

What did the GOP actually say they wanted on the border issue? 
 

Does anyone really think the border is being well handled currently? So why haven’t they figured out some bullshit token thing to give Rs on border security to make it easier to get aid to Ukraine? This was an obvious set up for quite a while and there’s been time to work it out. If the Rs reject it then they really look corrupt/shitty. As is they can wave their hands and say they just wanted xyz for the border and nobody wanted to make a deal. Dumb. 
 

 

[Foosters 17858]

3 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

What did the GOP actually say they wanted on the border issue? 
 

Does anyone really think the border is being well handled currently? So why haven’t they figured out some bullshit token thing to give Rs on border security to make it easier to get aid to Ukraine? This was an obvious set up for quite a while and there’s been time to work it out. If the Rs reject it then they really look corrupt/shitty. As is they can wave their hands and say they just wanted xyz for the border and nobody wanted to make a deal. Dumb. 
 

 

Ah yes, it's the Democrats fault that the GOP supports Putin wiping Ukraine off the map.

GTFO 

[956 Worldwide 34715]

6 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

What did the GOP actually say they wanted on the border issue? 
 

Does anyone really think the border is being well handled currently? So why haven’t they figured out some bullshit token thing to give Rs on border security to make it easier to get aid to Ukraine? This was an obvious set up for quite a while and there’s been time to work it out. If the Rs reject it then they really look corrupt/shitty. As is they can wave their hands and say they just wanted xyz for the border and nobody wanted to make a deal. Dumb. 
 

 

Biden already offered them something.  The GOP won’t even say what they want. That’s the point.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/republican-opposition-ukraine-israel-aid-border-security/676315/ 

Quote

On December 4, Republican Senator John Cornyn of Texas told reporters: “There’s a misunderstanding on the part of Senator Schumer and some of our Democratic friends. This is not a traditional negotiation, where we expect to come up with a bipartisan compromise on the border. This is a price that has to be paid in order to get the supplemental.” For many Republicans, what mattered was not what they got but how they got it: We demand, you comply; we win, you lose. 

A deal, no matter how juicy, is less interesting to them than a ritual of submission. If they cannot enforce that ritual, they are not interested in any deal.

 

[atomheartbevo 89727]

2 hours ago, Boss Hogg said:

What did the GOP actually say they wanted on the border issue? 

Brown people to demonize.

[tx 3 putt 77060]

 

[Ted Lange 16110]

43 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

cc @Anastasis  

[Ted Lange 16110]

As for the US border.   Would money be better spent on bussing asylum seekers across the country, or building a wall, or hiring 100,00 cops to find people to deport, like everyone who supports the GOP wants to do.

Or doing things like everify or a worker permit program and investing In the countries where people are fleeing from?
 

1 side is serious, and the GOP is screaming points. Same with the Ukraine. 

[tx 3 putt 77060]

Worker program works 

the economy is booming, lot of workers needed 

Edited December 13, 2023 by tx 3 putt

[Anastasis 23475]

1 hour ago, Ted Lange said:

cc @Anastasis  

It’s funny. Cause I am sitting on my carpet watching the tail end of Oppenheimer. Look under your bed for the boogeymen. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Anastasis

[InkaUtexas 25986]

Some of us have been advocating for investment in Central America. Not the thread to discuss immigration I understand, but this shit pisses me off.

[BevoAbyss 2059]

On 12/10/2023 at 11:27 PM, RomaVicta said:

They are boldly taking this country in broad daylight.

I wish they were spineless and aimless, but they're not.

This is 100% spot on. No, 100,000%.

MAGA-GQP has been building for decades. Reagan/Bush >>> Perot/United We Stand >>> Bush 2 >>> Tea Party >>> MAGA >>> Trump.

Right before our eyes!

This ain't no mere grift by spineless con artists.

Reagan/Bush: Merged the GOP with Jerry Falwell's Religious Right and the (alleged) Moral Majority, which was openly anti-abortion, Creationist, Fundamentalist, Evangelical. They stated they wanted a Bible-ruled America, God back in schools. They have been openly targeting abortion and women since the 1980s. Clear anti-science, theocratic agenda was being tested. Bush 1 puts Thomas on Supreme Court. 

Perot: Trial run for Trump. Billionaire businessman = political genius = strongman, tough guy, badass, cult of personality. Perot's "United We Stand" was prototype for Tea Party and MAGA. United We Stand was advocating for huge border walls in the mid-1990s, among many other "far right" policies. I saw it with my own eyes.

-- Out of curiosity, I and female friend (no pics) went to one of the United We Stand conferences at the Dallas Convention Center. We were passing through Dallas and thought, what the hell, let's check it out. CNN and news outlets were there. We were staggered by what we saw. A weird conglomeration of "libertarian" rhetoric (cut taxes, my "freedoms") and nakedly authoritarian/religious policy proposals. Build the wall, stop immigration, home-schooling (re: Christian), God back in schools, anti-abortion (pro-life), etc. Early stage unorganized fascism.

-- Later rebranded as "Reform Party." 

-- Fox News launched in 1996-7 to tap into the political audience revealed by Perot and United We Stand.

Bush 2: Open embrace and installment of "faith-based" policies championed by United We Stand, war crimes galore, authorized torture regimes. Roberts and Alito on Supreme Court, theocracy now becomes clearly possible. 

Tea Party: The Tea Party used "tax policies" and "less government spending" as a smokescreen for their various neo-fascist agendas building on United We Stand. 

MAGA: Clear fascism and theocracy, anti-science, etc. Moral Majority & United We Stand on steroids. Megachurches and small town churches are radicalized. 

Trump: And here we are. Perot on steroids and paranoid ego-mania. A political strongman, badass tough guy, cult of personality, with backing of fascist-theocratic populace, now bent upon taking total power. No mask, no vaxx, science-denying in the middle of global pandemic costs hundreds of thousands of lives. Total of 1.2 million Americans dead. 

-- Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, Barrett on Supreme Court. Theocracy is now rooted on the High Court. Dobbs ends Roe and more horrors to come. Falwell's Dream come true.

The GOP and Religious Right had a long-term plan. It is working. The goal is a fascist theocracy. Believe them. They have a spine.  

Edited December 13, 2023 by BevoAbyss

[BevoAbyss 2059]

My post above is in the wrong thread, sorry about that. (Though I was supporting Roma's great post.)

[956 Worldwide 34715]

This is way off topic but @BevoAbyss, that narrative is off and unhelpful to the current moment. There is no grand line connecting Bush 1 and Perot and Bush 2 in some sort of malevolent crypto-fascist conspiracy and that type of thinking is harmful like the “globalist NWO narrative” is harmful.  
 

Perot was a populist and a weirdo (who hated 41 and was hated in return; Perot claimed that 41 was going to fuck up his daughter’s wedding).  What Perot WAS NOT by any stretch of the imagination, was a crypto-fascist theocrat. Direct from his “United we Stand,” which was not a precursor to MAGA or a Chick tract dressed as politics: 

1. Abortion: Should be enshrined as a right for all women in federal law.  The federal government should pay for low-income women to have abortions.

2. Education: Federally funded free preschool for all.

3. Heath: Universal basic coverage in a private-public partnership. Massive fed investment in AIDS research funding.

4. Drugs: Free federally funded rehab and treatment.

5. Taxes: Eliminate mortgage credits for high earners, no health deductions for high earners. Raise marginal rates on high earners. Lower capital gains (this is the most MAGA-y thing there, capital gains tax reform).

https://www.ontheissues.org/United_We_Stand.htm

It is a testament to the Overton window that a weirdo populist in 1992 wanted fed funded abortion and free pre-school. Instead of slaying imaginary dragons of the past we need to focus on the assholes in the here and now who want to lose to Russia.  Admiral Stockdale wouldn’t have heard of it. 

 

[Captainant 27680]

7 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Some of us have been advocating for investment in Central America. Not the thread to discuss immigration I understand, but this shit pisses me off.

I mean, we "broke" it back in the 70s and 80s what with all the bloody state sponsored regime change. We'd sure as shit better chip in on fixing shit, otherwise we're going to continue to have fodder for republican border crisis rhetoric.

Which is of course, why the republicans oppose doing anything to right past wrongs. 

[atomheartbevo 89727]

8 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

As for the US border.   Would money be better spent on bussing asylum seekers across the country, or building a wall, or hiring 100,00 cops to find people to deport, like everyone who supports the GOP wants to do.

Or doing things like everify or a worker permit program and investing In the countries where people are fleeing from?

7 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Some of us have been advocating for investment in Central America. Not the thread to discuss immigration I understand, but this shit pisses me off.

They don't want hard conversations, which is why they tie it to things like aid for Ukraine.

If the Republicans wanted to "solve" illegal immigration, there's a few simple things they could start doing right now:

• Fix the Social Security/IRS databases and other databases to deal with multiple people using the same SS #'s, or SS #'s being used across multiple addresses.
• Shut down American companies and start coming down hard on Americans who are hiring the illegal immigrants (ties into the first one). I've known too many Republicans who bitch about illegals, but then are paying their lawn guys/pool guys/construction workers/day labor, etc. who barely speak any English, in cash, because they fucking know they don't have a bank account because they aren't here legally.  And we have way too many companies (Tyson Foods, etc.) and especially the agricultural and construction industries here in Texas, who are dealing with a whole shitload of people that everybody knows are here illegally.  
• Piggybacking off of the one above, look at the underlying reasons why those "shithole" countries have so many people leaving.  A big part is that Americans here are paying them to do their lawns, clean their pools (fuck their wives), build their houses, harvest their crops, and it pays far better than where they came from.

But Republicans will never do any of those things (Rick Fucking Perry was actually talking a lot about #3 back in 2001 before 9/11) because Republican BMDs like the system the way it is.

So instead we tie "border enforcement" to Ukraine aid.

[wildcat09 29355]

I've never thought Republicans wanted to "solve" immigration, because a broken immigration system benefits them politically. I figured the overwhelming majority of elected Republicans were just fine letting plenty of illegal immigrants in for cheap labor and just pretending they cared about limiting immigration. But that thinking changed when they began rallying behind efforts to slash legal immigration too.  Now, I'm starting to think that their racism and fascism has metastasized to the point that many, if not a majority of them, will pretty soon be making serious efforts to deputize freaks like Icono to go to the border to shoot immigrants. This would have the bonus (in their mind) of serving as training for their brownshirts to violently suppress internal dissent as well. And they don't even really have to deputize anyone. There's plenty of other ways they could achieve the same thing and I'm only not going further into that because Icono and his friends read this board and I don't want to give them any ideas.

[RomaVicta 29929]

15 hours ago, Boss Hogg said:

If the Rs reject it then they really look corrupt/shitty.

[Apologies to @Foosters The quote above was originally attributed to him. Pilot error.]

 

That sentence is as apt for today as a an article written on the Titanic about football when the players wore leather helmets.

The game has changed and moved to a new arena. Think Rollerball.

As for Ukraine, they will learn what the Kurds feel like.

The GOP: continuing the policy of abandoning those risking their lives in a cause in which they thought we had mutual interest. 

We cover ourselves in shame.

Edited December 13, 2023 by RomaVicta

[RomaVicta 29929]

 

[Foosters 17858]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

 

That sentence is as apt for today as a an article written on the Titanic about football when the players wore leather helmets.

The game has changed and moved to a new arena. Think Rollerball.

As for Ukraine, they will learn what the Kurds feel like.

The GOP: continuing the policy of abandoning those risking their lives in a cause in which they thought we had mutual interest. 

We cover ourselves in shame.

For the record, the quote attributed to me appears to be entirely fabricated by you.

Weird.

[bolverk 29684]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This is way off topic but @BevoAbyss, that narrative is off and unhelpful to the current moment. There is no grand line connecting Bush 1 and Perot and Bush 2 in some sort of malevolent crypto-fascist conspiracy and that type of thinking is harmful like the “globalist NWO narrative” is harmful.  
 

Perot was a populist and a weirdo (who hated 41 and was hated in return; Perot claimed that 41 was going to fuck up his daughter’s wedding).  What Perot WAS NOT by any stretch of the imagination, was a crypto-fascist theocrat. Direct from his “United we Stand,” which was not a precursor to MAGA or a Chick tract dressed as politics: 

1. Abortion: Should be enshrined as a right for all women in federal law.  The federal government should pay for low-income women to have abortions.

2. Education: Federally funded free preschool for all.

3. Heath: Universal basic coverage in a private-public partnership. Massive fed investment in AIDS research funding.

4. Drugs: Free federally funded rehab and treatment.

5. Taxes: Eliminate mortgage credits for high earners, no health deductions for high earners. Raise marginal rates on high earners. Lower capital gains (this is the most MAGA-y thing there, capital gains tax reform).

https://www.ontheissues.org/United_We_Stand.htm

It is a testament to the Overton window that a weirdo populist in 1992 wanted fed funded abortion and free pre-school. Instead of slaying imaginary dragons of the past we need to focus on the assholes in the here and now who want to lose to Russia.  Admiral Stockdale wouldn’t have heard of it. 

 

If I were to name just one Republican from the 1990s as an inspiration for Trumpism, it'd be Pat Buchanan.

[RomaVicta 29929]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

For the record, the quote attributed to me appears to be entirely fabricated by you.

Weird.

The Russians paid me to do it. Now I must either deal with my shame or become a GOP. I'll have to have a look at a price index for the cost of a soul.

 

I did correct it. Sorry for the error.

[956 Worldwide 34715]

44 minutes ago, bolverk said:

If I were to name just one Republican from the 1990s as an inspiration for Trumpism, it'd be Pat Buchanan.

Troof, although it turns out the worst Americans don’t want an eloquent and intelligent ideological advocate for American smallness, isolationism, xenophobia, and rank populism. They want all those things, but they need it delivered to them by a big dum-dum.

To link to Ukraine, the ideology is really to make America shrink. 

[Gap03 3308]

19 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

 I’m watching the completely pathetic sight of the leader of the free world begging these creatures for .33 percent of GDP so the United States of Fucking America can beat Russia on the battlefield without firing a shot, and how happy they are to get this moment. 
 

Call me crazy, but I think the ~$150B / year corporate handout represented by the TCJA might just have been better spent in support of Ukraine, but the fatties of the world need boats, so here we are ...  

[BevoAbyss 2059]

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

There is no grand line connecting Bush 1 and Perot and Bush 2 in some sort of malevolent crypto-fascist conspiracy

With all due respect, this is incorrect. 

1. First, I never said it was a "conspiracy." It has happened right before our eyes. The media has covered it all. 

-- Just because a bunch of Republicans and Libertarians had their eyes closed and heard what they wanted to hear, it does follow that it was a conspiracy. 

2. There is a grand line. Not a straight line, but a clear highway with some curves, detours, zig zags and gravel roads, and then back on the Reagan-Falwell interstate. But the highway clearly begins with Reagan/Bush (though some might say Nixon) in the 1980s and goes to Trump and beyond.

3. Reagan and Falwell energized the Religious Right/Moral Majority (RR/MM) to go full-on GOP.

-- The RR/MM were anti-abortion and openly wanted Roe overturned, they harassed family planning locations for decades, and so on. There is the seed for Dobbs and the end of Roe and attacks on women's reproductive rights we see all over Texas and in other red states. 

-- They wanted religion back in the schools, were anti-LGBTQ, etc. Reagan explicitly said at a 1984 campaign rally in Austin he wanted God back in the schools. GOP has been working on that for years, now in a full-on war with public (secular) schools. The whole "school choice" is largely a smoke screen for Bible schooling at home. 

4. Bush 1: You mean the President who ushered in Alt-Fact culture on the campaign trail with his line: "I'll never apologize for America, I don't care what the facts are..."  Elected in a landslide over Dukakis, while using the racist Willie Horton ad, too. 

5. Perot: I never said Perot was a crypto fascist. I said he was a prototype for Trump. Billionaire, tough talking badass, cult of personality, etc. 

Whatever Ross Perot said in his book is not everything I saw with my own eyes at the United We Stand conference at the Dallas Convention Center.

-- We pulled into the parking lot and what's the first thing we noticed? The striking lack of BMWs, Mercedes, Jaguars or super-luxe Euro cars. This was not the Highland Park old school Republicans.

-- The predominant cars were Cadillacs, Buicks, Fords, Trucks, Minivans, etc. Mostly Team USA cars. These people were most likely from the Burbs and areas north, west, and east of Highland Park and Dallas. Plus, small towns.

-- Inside, the energy was MASSIVE. As in electric. These people were 150% fired up and ready to change America. This was not old school Republicans quietly discussing tax benefits, corporate empires, or the commies.

-- All throughout the concourse, there were tables with people passionately championing various issues with pamphlets, xerox manifestos, etc. It was 30 years ago, so I do not recall all the tables. But I clearly recall at least two tables wanting a wall on the border, with rabid anti-immigration (racist) pamphlets. Ramped up Drug War stuff, too, blaming immigrants. Tables for "freedoms": gun rights, home-schooling (Bible learnin'), patriotism, something about religious freedom, owning gold/silver, etc. Libertarians had their tables, too, with tax issues, budget issues, free markets, etc. Might have been a table on anti-flag burning laws and hating the media/conspiracies.

-- I am not saying everyone at the United We Stand convention was a proto-fascist. What I am saying is the fascist seeds were there. Perot struck a nerve, just like Trump.

-- My artsy female friend and I walked out, headed to Chuys and downed a few margs and some fajitas. We both agreed. If United We Stand people got full power, there could be big trouble in America.

6. Add on two decades of Alt-Fact Fox News and you have the propagandized GQP fascist consciousness we see today that Trump mines on a daily basis.

7. The line continues from Tea Party to MAGA to Trump. That's self-evident for anyone with their eyes open.

TLDR: It begins with Reagan-Falwell and leads directly to MAGA-GQP-Trump. Surly Republicans, just own it. 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by BevoAbyss

[elfenix 34308]

I am watching the utterly shameful display by GOP leadership today and their pitiful and disgusting linkage of whether Ukrainians get to survive or not to how bad Mexicans and Guatemalans are.  I’m watching the completely pathetic sight of the leader of the free world begging these creatures for .33 percent of GDP so the United States of Fucking America can beat Russia on the battlefield without firing a shot, and how happy they are to get this moment. 
 
America is fucked, y’all.  We are used to high-flown rhetoric, but it is not inaccurate to call this fight the defining moment of a generation.  We have the choice to show that the American century can continue, that the Free World is stronger than awful and absurd strongman sanctuaries that make no pretense of having any sort of ethos beyond repression.
And we’re going to lose. We’ve chosen to lose as a nation. Not just the array of clown-ass GOP voters, even those who say they support aid but haven’t made a bit of noise about it. Who will poll the lever with a shiteating grin, knowing that we are going to let Russia win, but maybe we will own some libs. We also have the milquetoast D leadership that had every chance to win this thing but erred on the side of escalation management and the absurdly facile belief that on this issue they could get the GOP to do the right thing.  

Trump may be right about one thing, we’re tired of winning. As a country, we’re tired of winning. Our best and brightest are paralyzed by fears and nuance and our stupidest and worst are the boldest and most willing to play for keeps. And so we’re going to lose. We got tired of winning, and so like a stupid and spoiled child who breaks his toy just because he got bored with it, we  are taking a hammer to the world we built just for the smug satisfaction of it. And the people who can stop it are watching and tutting, that Jimmy simply mustn’t do that, isn’t he naughty. 
 
Fuck this. 

Can't rep this enough.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

 

[tx 3 putt 77060]

 

 

[Brisketexan 105154]

52 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

From what I've read, seems like a good old local small town feud over money.  Not tied to the war in any way (other than, you know, in a country in active war, grenades are easy to come by).

[atomheartbevo 89727]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

From what I've read, seems like a good old local small town feud over money.  Not tied to the war in any way (other than, you know, in a country in active war, grenades are easy to come by).

Judging by the size of the room for their little council, a very small town.  Amazing only one or two were killed.

[TeeDubya 3362]

The protection offered by an infantry fighting vehicle is a bit more robust if the passengers are inside....
 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by TeeDubya

[tx 3 putt 77060]

 

[TeeDubya 3362]

Gee, what did the friendly drone drop?

 

 

[Schulz2.0 28960]

So Ukraine aid is tied to a border agreement. The Hill argues that Republicans are unlikely to agree to any deal due to "border security" being a central part of Trump's presidential run. Republicans don't want to sign off on any deal that helps Biden and that Trump would bash.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4385839-republicans-want-to-avoid-clash-with-trump-on-border-security-deal/amp/

Edited January 5 by Schulz2.0

[Brisketexan 105154]

1 hour ago, Schulz2.0 said:

So Ukraine aid is tied to a border agreement. The Hill argues that Republicans are unlikely to agree to any deal due to "border security" being a central part of Trump's presidential run. Republicans don't want to sign off on any deal that helps Biden and that Trump would bash.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4385839-republicans-want-to-avoid-clash-with-trump-on-border-security-deal/amp/

It's even better.  Russia is formalizing arms deal ties with North Korea and Iran, because it needs stuff that goes boom, and isn't able to manufacture much on its own.

To be clear: the war on Ukraine is being waged by Russia, aligned with North Korea and Iran.  Ukraine, on the other hand, is aligned with NATO and all of the western world.

And WHICH SIDE is our GQP picking in that fight?  Yeah....if you'd have told any of us 10 years ago that in that scenario, the GQP would be "team Russia/North Korea/Iran," 99.999999999% of Americans would have called you insane.  Yet, here we are.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

 

[Chad Fuck 17684]

 

That is squarely within the “Every accusation…” rubric.

[Captainant 27680]

3 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

we'll just file that under "shit that isn't allowed to be mentioned in DT"

[cactusflinthead 27601]

21 minutes ago, Captainant said:

we'll just file that under "shit that isn't allowed to be mentioned in DT"

That's why it's over here. I've got two warnings already.

[956 Worldwide 34715]

I am gruntled to report that “Coach Red Pill,” amateur Russian agent, full-time dipshit and propagandist, died in a Ukrainian jail.  As a reminder, he was allowed to be under house arrest but got tossed back in the joint when he tried to escape. Also Tucker Carlson is mad which makes it better.