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Posted
17 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Trump asking Ukraine for 50% of its Minerals per MSNBC.

Zelensky should sign it.

Because -- and this is important -- a promise made TO Trump is as valuable as a promise made BY Trump.

Get what you need right now.  Then bail on the deal and negotiate different terms later.  The prospect of "oh no, the US will invade us to enforce their right to 50% of our minerals per the agreement with Trump" really only matters as long as Trump or a Trump-toady is in office.  Granted....that could be for a LONG time, but play the odds.  Maybe it won't be that long.  In the meantime, get Trump doing what you want with your utterly meaningless, never-intended-to-keep promise.

That's how you negotiate with someone who doesn't keep their word.  A play as old as time.

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Posted

Who was the poster that is/was a super Trumper that was adamant that Trump was going to support Ukraine despite all the evidence to the contrary? He claimed to have spent time in Ukraine on the front lines. Was wondering if he still feels as strongly about Trump.

Posted
13 minutes ago, royiv said:

Who was the poster that is/was a super Trumper that was adamant that Trump was going to support Ukraine despite all the evidence to the contrary? He claimed to have spent time in Ukraine on the front lines. Was wondering if he still feels as strongly about Trump.

We also had tons of Trump supporters saying we were fear mongering about project 2025. Haven't seen them around much lately either.

Mostly what I get from Trump people now is how great it is somebody is doing something about government spending. But I don't see what good that is going to do with all the big tax cuts in that tax bill. But granted, that bill isn't law yet.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, royiv said:

Who was the poster that is/was a super Trumper that was adamant that Trump was going to support Ukraine despite all the evidence to the contrary? He claimed to have spent time in Ukraine on the front lines. Was wondering if he still feels as strongly about Trump.

There was a wiesbeir guy. He came, got laughed at, and left I believe.

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Posted (edited)

Zelensky better not go to the Saudi negotiation. Like fuck that. Send someone in his place because trust is a major issue. First and lastly, since a bone saw deal previously happened involving the saudis and Trump, I’d broker that shit from far away. 

Edited by Mdhorn
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Posted
On 2/15/2025 at 12:07 PM, InkaUtexas said:

There was a wiesbeir guy. He came, got laughed at, and left I believe.

He got crowdsourced after saying the Greeks would have enslaved us (a pretty big hint that the dude was probably a pedo).

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Posted

Since Trump is going to sell out Ukraine, what are we getting in exchange? Open up the oil production by Russia and OPEC? I feel like Trump only wants to see < $2 gas in America if only for one day. Of course that would stop all drilling in Texas. And hurt US energy independence efforts. But MAGA even in Texas won’t be able to comprehend that logic.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Since Trump is going to sell out Ukraine, what are we getting in exchange? 

For one thing, Trump's demand that the US get 50% of Ukraine's mineral resources. I know they've been successful in flooding the zone to where no scandal or outrage or absurdity gets the attention it should but I feel that demand is a real low point in our nation's history.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Bojack said:

For one thing, Trump's demand that the US get 50% of Ukraine's mineral resources. I know they've been successful in flooding the zone to where no scandal or outrage or absurdity gets the attention it should but I feel that demand is a real low point in our nation's history.

The US is becoming a mafia version of countries that demand tribute for “protection.” Perhaps not a perfect analogy because we most likely wouldn’t attack Ukraine directly if they didn’t pay up. Then again if Ukraine rejects a peace deal, maybe Trump has the US military join the Russians to stop the ukraines.

 

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Posted
For one thing, Trump's demand that the US get 50% of Ukraine's mineral resources. I know they've been successful in flooding the zone to where no scandal or outrage or absurdity gets the attention it should but I feel that demand is a real low point in our nation's history.

Welcome to season two of “The Quid Pro Bros”
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Posted
23 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Fucking disgusting. The keys to Trumps "agreement" with Ukraine are coming to light.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/

This...

A new Versailles

If this draft were accepted, Trump’s demands would amount to a higher share of Ukrainian GDP than reparations imposed on Germany at the Versailles Treaty, later whittled down at the London Conference in 1921, and by the Dawes Plan in 1924. At the same time, he seems willing to let Russia off the hook entirely.

Donald Trump told Fox News that Ukraine had “essentially agreed” to hand over $500bn. “They have tremendously valuable land in terms of rare earths, in terms of oil and gas, in terms of other things,” he said.

He warned that Ukraine would be handed to Putin on a plate if it rejected the terms. “They may make a deal. They may not make a deal. They may be Russian someday, or they may not be Russian someday. But I want this money back,” he said.

Trump said the US had spent $300bn on the war so far, adding that it would be “stupid” to hand over any more. In fact the five packages agreed by Congress total $175bn, of which $70bn was spent in the US on weapons production. Some of it is in the form of humanitarian grants, but much of it is lend-lease money that must be repaid.

It's unconscionable.  But Zelensky should make the deal.  Find a way to sell it publicly.  Survive.  Then re-negotiate once survival is assured.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

It's unconscionable.  But Zelensky should make the deal.  Find a way to sell it publicly.  Survive.  Then re-negotiate once survival is assured.

Yes. He should basically promise Trump anything to get a good peace deal. Better it go to the US than Russia.

But what does Ukraine get out of this? Will Russia withdraw to the pre-invasion borders (obviously the pre-2014 borders would be best but I am not holding my breath)?

Can Ukraine join the EU or some kind of European treaty organization?

Edited by Valmy77
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Posted
5 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

It's unconscionable.  But Zelensky should make the deal.  Find a way to sell it publicly.  Survive.  Then re-negotiate once survival is assured.

But the US doesn’t have this much leverage…? Ukraine should walk away from the deal, and have European partners buy US equipment and transfer them to Ukraine. Hell, Ukraine can offer fair mineral rights deals to Europe. 

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Posted
Just now, B00M said:

But the US doesn’t have this much leverage…? Ukraine should walk away from the deal, and have European partners buy US equipment and transfer them to Ukraine. Hell, Ukraine can offer fair mineral rights deals to Europe. 

I'd be cool with that too.  If Europe can offer a better deal, then they should and Ukraine should take it.  

But the world needs to see that the US is an unreliable partner.  Not because I want the US to fail, but because if our allies finally stand up and say, "No!" then we're that much closer to excising the ultimate cancer from our body politic.  

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Yes. He should basically promise Trump anything to get a good peace deal. Better it go to the US than Russia.

But what does Ukraine get out of this? Will Russia withdraw to the pre-invasion borders (obviously the pre-2014 borders would be best but I am not holding my breath)?

Can Ukraine join the EU or some kind of European treaty organization?

All great questions to which I don't have the answer.   

Posted
9 minutes ago, B00M said:

European partners buy US equipment and transfer them to Ukraine.

I'm waiting for Europeans to stop buying American defense items, and pull out of the F-35 program, to buy European arms instead. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Schulz2.0 said:

I'm waiting for Europeans to stop buying American defense items, and pull out of the F-35 program, to buy European arms instead. 

oh-realization.gif

That would be something, but I'm not sure they have the industrial base for it.  At least, not right now...

Posted
14 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Yes. He should basically promise Trump anything to get a good peace deal. Better it go to the US than Russia.

But what does Ukraine get out of this? Will Russia withdraw to the pre-invasion borders (obviously the pre-2014 borders would be best but I am not holding my breath)?

Can Ukraine join the EU or some kind of European treaty organization?


Russia will not withdraw unless they’re forced out. 

this whole “negotiation” is a shameful trump cry for attention. He’s unwilling to do anything to actually stop the conflict (nato membership, US boots). If he does reach a deal with Russia, Ukraine will not recognize it. 

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, B00M said:


Russia will not withdraw unless they’re forced out. 

this whole “negotiation” is a shameful trump cry for attention. He’s unwilling to do anything to actually stop the conflict (nato membership, US boots). If he does reach a deal with Russia, Ukraine will not recognize it. 

 

Russia gets to keep when it captured plus Ukraine pays a ton to the US is not a peace deal. That is a surrender.

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Posted

Ukraine will reject this "deal" and rightfully so.  He tried to bring peace.  But Ukraine wants to keep fighting.  TFG will then declare Ukraine is being unreasonable and stop all assistance.  That's where this is heading, right?

Posted
8 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

oh-realization.gif

That would be something, but I'm not sure they have the industrial base for it.  At least, not right now...

Rheinmetall, BAE, Saab, Dassault, etc. They would need to scale up, but they have the companies and designs to produce jets, tanks, IFVs, mortars. Makes more sense than buying from a country hitting you with tariffs.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, 27-25 said:

Ukraine will reject this "deal" and rightfully so.  He tried to bring peace.  But Ukraine wants to keep fighting.  TFG will then declare Ukraine is being unreasonable and stop all assistance.  That's where this is heading, right?

Full House 90S Tv GIF

Posted
10 minutes ago, 27-25 said:

Ukraine will reject this "deal" and rightfully so.  He tried to bring peace.  But Ukraine wants to keep fighting.  TFG will then declare Ukraine is being unreasonable and stop all assistance.  That's where this is heading, right?

The Czechs took a similar deal and got occupied and eliminated less than a year later.

But even if that hadn't happened Ukraine had been part of Russia for over two hundred years. They know what they are fighting to escape.

Posted
53 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

It's unconscionable.  But Zelensky should make the deal.  Find a way to sell it publicly.  Survive.  Then re-negotiate once survival is assured.

That is what Trump would do.

Musk would take the deal and then sell it to China.

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Posted
1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

That is what Trump would do.

Musk would take the deal and then sell it to China.

Yep--that's exactly how Ukraine should deal with this.  Sign on to whatever deal is needed to meet its immediate needs with absolutely no intention of ever fulfilling its side of the bargain.  Because that's exactly how Trump deals with the world.  So you might as well deal with him on equal terms.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yep--that's exactly how Ukraine should deal with this.  Sign on to whatever deal is needed to meet its immediate needs with absolutely no intention of ever fulfilling its side of the bargain.  Because that's exactly how Trump deals with the world.  So you might as well deal with him on equal terms.

The problem is getting Trump to pay upfront is impossible. 

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Posted
Yep--that's exactly how Ukraine should deal with this.  Sign on to whatever deal is needed to meet its immediate needs with absolutely no intention of ever fulfilling its side of the bargain.  Because that's exactly how Trump deals with the world.  So you might as well deal with him on equal terms.

Exactly. Tfg only gets the good when Russia is gone.
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Posted
Yep--that's exactly how Ukraine should deal with this.  Sign on to whatever deal is needed to meet its immediate needs with absolutely no intention of ever fulfilling its side of the bargain.  Because that's exactly how Trump deals with the world.  So you might as well deal with him on equal terms.

How did that work out for the Kurds?
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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yep--that's exactly how Ukraine should deal with this.  Sign on to whatever deal is needed to meet its immediate needs with absolutely no intention of ever fulfilling its side of the bargain.  Because that's exactly how Trump deals with the world.  So you might as well deal with him on equal terms.

I understand the deal will allow European troops to be stationed in Ukraine. If that is true then Ukraine ultimately got what it wanted out of the war and should sign, no matter the cost. That is as good as joining NATO. Better even.

And then the Europeans can work on building up their nuclear arsenal.

Edited by Valmy77
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Posted (edited)
On 2/15/2025 at 12:07 PM, Valmy77 said:

We also had tons of Trump supporters saying we were fear mongering about project 2025. Haven't seen them around much lately either.

Mostly what I get from Trump people now is how great it is somebody is doing something about government spending. But I don't see what good that is going to do with all the big tax cuts in that tax bill. But granted, that bill isn't law yet.

Government spending cuts are a “burn it to the ground” approach because the wealth tax grumblings were getting louder and the deficit is out of control. Billionaires ain’t standing for that. Keep taxes low, right size the deficit with arsonist like cuts to government budgets - after all billionaires don’t need government - and like magic avoid the wealth tax. Their job is almost done here…

Hand Rub Smiling GIF

Edited by troph
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Posted (edited)

CNN headline pretty much says it all.

  • US and Russia will create teams to negotiate end of Ukraine war, Rubio says

 

Us to Ulkraine:

6ed80aae668a1f9fd80c7e35641aaea9.gif

 

 

 

 

-

 

 

Edited by yoladu
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