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Posted
6 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

And what interest are those? Why do you give a shit what the rest of Europe thinks about us? Are they going to attack us or write a strongly worded letter about it? It’s great that they are picking up their end of the slack trying to stabilize their own region. I’m totally fine with people being embarrassed to be an American because we aren’t being empathetic enough to give some crybaby more money because he wants to hide behind big brother instead of actually broker peace. We have given Ukraine much more than they deserve and are owed by us. Time to put the big boy pants on and accept concessions…unless they can find someone else to meet their terms. If so…great! Win/win for everyone.

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Posted
18 minutes ago, bluto said:

Surely there’ll be an announcement the us is suspending aid to Israel any minute right?

That would be great. But, seeing how they actually provide value to American interests, I get it. 

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Posted
48 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

And this is a bad thing because…why? Other countries have to pick up their end of the couch and fund non-NATO members instead of letting America pay the check all the time? Clutch the pearls! Maybe we can start paying off some of that escalating debt with the money we are saving sending billions of $ to Ukraine and getting nothing in return. 

https://open.substack.com/pub/thebulwark/p/america-first-is-a-lie-a76?r=3agz2m&utm_medium=ios

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Posted
47 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

And this is a bad thing because…why? Other countries have to pick up their end of the couch and fund non-NATO members instead of letting America pay the check all the time? Clutch the pearls! Maybe we can start paying off some of that escalating debt with the money we are saving sending billions of $ to Ukraine and getting nothing in return. 

 Debt? You don’t know history, bucko. Republican presidents explode the debt. The tax cuts are well in excess of the lie of savings.

turnip stopped all cyber surveillance of Putin’s own tech bros. I hope it is your bank account that gets wiped clean, and not mine. I voted for economic growth, which Biden did deliver, and so would have Harris.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

 Debt? You don’t know history, bucko. Republican presidents explode the debt. The tax cuts are well in excess of the lie of savings.

turnip stopped all cyber surveillance of Putin’s own tech bros. I hope it is your bank account that gets wiped clean, and not mine. I voted for economic growth, which Biden did deliver, and so would have Harris.

But there were 10 trans athletes out of 500,00 in the NCAA. You have to think of the kids...

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

But, seeing how they actually provide value to American interests, I get it. 

Not unlike almost a century of benefit America has reaped allying itself with Western liberal democracies, the difference being for the price of almost nothing.

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Posted
2 hours ago, gernblansten said:

No, shit Sherlock. TUSK is saying it because TRUMP has been announcing for months that he’s backing Putin’s play. TUSK is saying the USA is not who we used to be and Europe is going to have to be a bigger player on the world stage while the United Fucking States of America surrenders our position as the world’s leader. 

lol this guy thought we were confused because he had the same first name. You can't make up the level of maturity and discourse that people are willing to have in 2025.

Moving on, Dealbook had an interesting artile today about how Euro Defense stocks are rallying and up along with the Euro in response to the region vowing, coming off of the Starmer meeting that Europe is going to do a lot more of the heavy lifting financially and militarily.

I thought this was the most prescient pundit analysis I've seen since the ill-fated meeting last week-- especially around the realities of Europe NOT being as papered up as us (sad) and saying the quiet part outloud about the end game for the "troika" of Trump, Putin, and Xi being the 3 strongmen to carve up the world again like it's a land grab:

Quote

 

Even before the summit, credit agencies had warned about Europe’s finances. For example, increasing NATO members’ defense spending to 3 percent of G.D.P. — which is still short of the 5 percent that Trump wants — could force European governments to make unpopular spending cuts that weaken social safety nets, Fitch Ratings has warned.

Other political options include loosening fiscal rules to allow for greater defense, rerouting unspent NextGenerationEU funds to military buildup and or raising taxes.

Borrowing would carry a hefty cost, too. European bond yields ticked higher today, a sign that investors were growing worried about potential growth in public spending. Analysts are divided on whether such commitments could muddle the European Central Bank’s plans to cut interest rates; the central bank meets later this week.

The stakes are huge. Failure to help Ukraine could eventually push European nations into accepting a deal that favors President Vladimir Putin of Russia. That could test E.U. cohesion, analysts say — but might be welcomed by those interested in seeing a divided Europe.

“Trump, Putin (and possibly Elon Musk?) all seem to dislike the European Union,” Holger Schmieding, an economist at the German bank Berenberg, wrote in a research note this morning. “They would prefer to deal one-by-one with a panoply of minnows and middling countries than with a union that represents the second biggest market in the world.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/03/business/dealbook/europe-ukraine-defense-stock-market.html

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Spankytoes said:

And what interest are those? Why do you give a shit what the rest of Europe thinks about us?



Holy fuck.  Well, I come from a family of farmers. My dad was a farmer. I grew up on a farm. I used to get excused absences from school every fall here in Texas to harvest. The EU is the fourth largest buyer of U.S. agricultural goods, after ---- wait for it ----- China, Canada and Mexico, who Trump is also working hard to alienate and who have promised retaliatory trade measures.

Then there's jobs, generally speaking. The EU buys 370 billion dollars worth of goods from the U.S. every year and an even greater amount of services. My friends work for companies like Apple, Dell, IBM etc ... that sell a ton of services in the EU every year. Those services won't be needed if the EU is destabilized/sees economic dislocation.

Also, I love visiting Europe and, from my days at UT and a year that I did in the UT-Wuerzburg exchange program, have a ton of European friends.  Already they are souring on the U.S. One of my German friends was going to visit our national parks in Utah and Wyoming this year with her family but she's decided not to.  You go to any national park and half the visitors are foreigners, particularly Germans and French.  So people whose jobs depend on travel are also going to suffer.

TLDR: Fuck you, you ignorant dumbshit.



 

Edited by Horn Under a Bad Sign
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Trump, Putin, and Xi being the 3 strongmen to carve up the world again like it's a land grab:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/03/business/dealbook/europe-ukraine-defense-stock-market.html


If Putin, with his economy that's smaller than Texas and a population that's shrinking pretty rapidly now, thinks he's going to be dividing up anything with the U.S. and China, he's pretty fucking stupid. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:


If Putin, with his economy that's smaller than Texas and a population that's shrinking pretty rapidly now, thinks he's going to be dividing up anything with the U.S. and China, he's pretty fucking stupid. 

And nobody even knows how many nukes he has that works. Maybe add Modi/India in for Putin. How old is Putin anyways? Seems like without him Russia will go lose some steam with whomever succeeds him as I don't think I've ever heard of any real plan or attempt to groom a successor (probably because Putin is a paranoid android).

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, mchookem said:

NSIAP

The wrestling shit isn't new (still funny), which is absolutely true about how many of our least educated brethren see shit and has been mentioned multiple times in this and other CR threads. What I'm really glad about, though, is that Stewart eventually gets to some of the ideology that's in the mix here.

In fact, years ago (2014), Bannon gave a speech at some Vatican Council bullshit thing, basically laying out that Judeo-Christianity (Christendom, as defined by the Rechts) is in a clash of civilizations that's defined by the boundaries of religion, race, etc. Basically, that speech proposes the alignment of "the West" with Russia's assistance against other non-Christian cultures, especially Islam. 

This was an hour-long kind of speech whose audio I posted, maybe on the old site, but I can't find it now at the moment. 

 

2 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

I thought this was the most prescient pundit analysis I've seen since the ill-fated meeting last week-- especially around the realities of Europe NOT being as papered up as us (sad) and saying the quiet part outloud about the end game for the "troika" of Trump, Putin, and Xi being the 3 strongmen to carve up the world again like it's a land grab:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/03/business/dealbook/europe-ukraine-defense-stock-market.html

Yeah, I think this is, more or less, the vision/plan. The oligarchs will figure it out and agree to whatever terms. Regardless, the US pulls back from the rest of the world to focus on our "sphere of influence," as outlined by the Monroe Doctrine. Perhaps the intention is to make Europe part of Russia's sphere/turf (at least the eastern half) while China takes on eastern Asia and Taiwan, specifically, which I believe is being delayed to allow for Trump and Putin to sort our Euroshit out first and while TSMC ramps up chip production in Arizona.

I've no shame in sounding like a conspiracist on this angle, even if it isn't entirely true. Aside from Krasnov/Trump aligning with authoritarian, culturally conservative, and affirmatively "Christian" Russia as some sort of "plan," I do honestly believe that a "deal" of some sort has been made.

Edit: I don't know if this is exactly what I was talking about, and I don't think it is, but it's at least a part of his thesis that Islam and Sharia Law are going to take over the West, which sounds so fucking quaint, and anti-capitalist, now.

 

 

Edited by bolverk
Posted
2 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

And what interest are those? Why do you give a shit what the rest of Europe thinks about us? Are they going to attack us or write a strongly worded letter about it? It’s great that they are picking up their end of the slack trying to stabilize their own region. I’m totally fine with people being embarrassed to be an American because we aren’t being empathetic enough to give some crybaby more money because he wants to hide behind big brother instead of actually broker peace. We have given Ukraine much more than they deserve and are owed by us. Time to put the big boy pants on and accept concessions…unless they can find someone else to meet their terms. If so…great! Win/win for everyone.

I'm going to do my best to answer this question in good faith, @Spankytoes.

It seems like you're okay with the war in Ukraine degrading the Russian military, you just think it's silly for the US to spend money on someone else's problems when we've got things to fix here at home. Additionally, cutting US funding might spur the EU into fully funding Ukraine's defense, meaning that we have our cake and get to eat it, too. Ultimately, though, even if it doesn't work out that way, the worst thing that happens is that Europeans get pissy about having to pay what you see as their own bills. Is this synthesis correct?

It seems like you're operating under a few misapprehensions.

First, your use of "empathetic enough" seems to imply that you think we're giving Ukraine support because we're trying to be the good guys, and protecting the weak is what the good guys do. It is what good guys do, and that's a great PR benefit, but if that was actually what we did, we'd be intervening in every humanitarian crisis worldwide. We don't. The US isn't heavily involved in conflicts in Myanmar or Sudan, for example, even though there's a ton of similar horrible shit going on. We do a bit, but it's nothing compared to our support of Ukraine. Why not? Because helping there would cost money, many Americans probably can't locate Myanmar on a map, and most importantly, we don't really give as much of a fuck. Sure, we can broker a talk or two and send some strongly worded letters, but we're not handing over F-16s.

So why the interest in helping Ukraine? Well, there's the obvious: it fucks over Russia, which frequently openly opposes US interests. They look immensely smaller on the world stage than they did before the start of this conflict. Other countries aren't as interested in their military tech, and they're less willing to pay heed to Russian interests. There are myriad reasons why this conflict is bad for Russia, and the more trouble they have with Ukraine, the less likely they are to do horrible shit like it in the future and/or cause other problems for us because they're busy spending their entire GDP there. You seem okay with this, but think it would just be better if the EU got off its collective ass and took charge of its own security, and all that could happen on their dime.

This leads to your second misapprehension, and it's a biggie: you seem to think events on the world stage like this happen in a vacuum. The United States didn't spring into being as the sole world superpower. We got there because we could outspend everyone else. We're the fucking Joneses. A single carrier strike group can take on entire countries' militaries. We have 11 of them. They are expensive as fuck. You think we need all those just to patrol our coastal waters? We have them so we can project power when and where we decide, and we don't really care what anyone has to say about it. This is true not just militarily, but economically and culturally. We are the world's reserve currency. We make the TV and the movies that people watch. McDonald's is ubiquitous. What the US wants, it generally gets, and if another country doesn't like it, too bad. They can go drink a Coke and be sad on Facebook about it.

Being seen as the world police is, for the most part, great for the United States. Countries give a shit what we do and say. They're polite to us. We get the friends and family discount. We can pull together coalitions to do, well, pretty much whatever we decide to do, even if they think it's a dumb idea. This is good for the US, and It makes us even richer - furthering our advantage - and it makes us more secure. Pulling back from the world stage lowers our importance to everyone else. And if you think that this one incident can't directly impact us, European stocks closed at a record high today. Why is money moving to the EU? Because people are investing in Dassault, and not in Lockheed. And the US stepping back from something that the EU - one of our biggest customers - thinks is important means that they'll just need to go make their own shit. We don't actually want them to. We want them to buy our shit and talk like us and think like us. It means we can keep getting our way.

Given all that, why in the actual fuck would you want to lessen our involvement in world affairs? To save some pocket change that is mostly going back into our own economy? When we do things like support Ukraine, we're not wasting money - we're making smart investments.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Sheep Have Wool said:

I'm going to do my best to answer this question in good faith, @Spankytoes.

It seems like you're okay with the war in Ukraine degrading the Russian military, you just think it's silly for the US to spend money on someone else's problems when we've got things to fix here at home. Additionally, cutting US funding might spur the EU into fully funding Ukraine's defense, meaning that we have our cake and get to eat it, too. Ultimately, though, even if it doesn't work out that way, the worst thing that happens is that Europeans get pissy about having to pay what you see as their own bills. Is this synthesis correct?

It seems like you're operating under a few misapprehensions.

First, your use of "empathetic enough" seems to imply that you think we're giving Ukraine support because we're trying to be the good guys, and protecting the weak is what the good guys do. It is what good guys do, and that's a great PR benefit, but if that was actually what we did, we'd be intervening in every humanitarian crisis worldwide. We don't. The US isn't heavily involved in conflicts in Myanmar or Sudan, for example, even though there's a ton of similar horrible shit going on. We do a bit, but it's nothing compared to our support of Ukraine. Why not? Because helping there would cost money, many Americans probably can't locate Myanmar on a map, and most importantly, we don't really give as much of a fuck. Sure, we can broker a talk or two and send some strongly worded letters, but we're not handing over F-16s.

So why the interest in helping Ukraine? Well, there's the obvious: it fucks over Russia, which frequently openly opposes US interests. They look immensely smaller on the world stage than they did before the start of this conflict. Other countries aren't as interested in their military tech, and they're less willing to pay heed to Russian interests. There are myriad reasons why this conflict is bad for Russia, and the more trouble they have with Ukraine, the less likely they are to do horrible shit like it in the future and/or cause other problems for us because they're busy spending their entire GDP there. You seem okay with this, but think it would just be better if the EU got off its collective ass and took charge of its own security, and all that could happen on their dime.

This leads to your second misapprehension, and it's a biggie: you seem to think events on the world stage like this happen in a vacuum. The United States didn't spring into being as the sole world superpower. We got there because we could outspend everyone else. We're the fucking Joneses. A single carrier strike group can take on entire countries' militaries. We have 11 of them. They are expensive as fuck. You think we need all those just to patrol our coastal waters? We have them so we can project power when and where we decide, and we don't really care what anyone has to say about it. This is true not just militarily, but economically and culturally. We are the world's reserve currency. We make the TV and the movies that people watch. McDonald's is ubiquitous. What the US wants, it generally gets, and if another country doesn't like it, too bad. They can go drink a Coke and be sad on Facebook about it.

Being seen as the world police is, for the most part, great for the United States. Countries give a shit what we do and say. They're polite to us. We get the friends and family discount. We can pull together coalitions to do, well, pretty much whatever we decide to do, even if they think it's a dumb idea. This is good for the US, and It makes us even richer - furthering our advantage - and it makes us more secure. Pulling back from the world stage lowers our importance to everyone else. And if you think that this one incident can't directly impact us, European stocks closed at a record high today. Why is money moving to the EU? Because people are investing in Dassault, and not in Lockheed. And the US stepping back from something that the EU - one of our biggest customers - thinks is important means that they'll just need to go make their own shit. We don't actually want them to. We want them to buy our shit and talk like us and think like us. It means we can keep getting our way.

Given all that, why in the actual fuck would you want to lessen our involvement in world affairs? To save some pocket change that is mostly going back into our own economy? When we do things like support Ukraine, we're not wasting money - we're making smart investments.

You have my vote, please run against Ted Cruz

Posted
5 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

Yes. And that’s a good thing. What does it have to do with funding Ukraine? 

How can you be so obtuse?

Posted

Ah, yes. The brave men of maga calling the Ukrainians crybabies and cowards after 3 years of repelling a full scale invasion by a far larger military that's bent on genocide. Whatever it takes to twist themselves into supporting the soft, moronic, criminal, serial sex abusing, draft dodging conman. And because they care so much about the debt. 

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