Ukraine War

[RomaVicta 29756]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

How the hell is the misguided invasion of Iraq, based on intelligence community fabrications that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, the same as supporting a smaller independent nation on the verge of getting run over by a superpower?

I mean, could you get it more backwards?  With Iraq, WE were "Russia", or at least closer to it.

It would be nice if we applied the objections we have to Putin's invasion of Ukraine to our own invasions of other nations. There's really a simple lesson here:

People don't like it when you invade their country. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Are you arguing in favor of the rest of the world dictating to Ukraine, a recognized sovereign nation, that they must cede their territory to an invading nation so we can have our carbs? 

No, but we are arming them so I feel we have more input than just some innocent bystanders. I wouldn’t have asked them to initiate talks or anything either. They’re already doing it on their own. 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Seems like this needs posting every day now.

 

[kevwun 15595]

And you're a covid disinformation spreading piece of crap.

Edited March 25, 2022 by kevwun

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

1 minute ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

No, but we are arming them so I feel we have more input than just some innocent bystanders. I wouldn’t have asked them to initiate talks or anything either. They’re already doing it on their own. 

 

 

 

News flash, we are strategically arming damned near anyone aligned with our interests, as are all the other countries who have armaments worth a shit.  

[Hookah Horns 3058]

35 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Fucking cope cage.  Another post as a cope cage. 
 

Putin isn’t a diabolical madman. He had bad assumptions driven by bad information because of his authoritarian system. Ukraine wasn’t on the verge of joining NATO and he knew that. He told you and the Russian nation why he invaded Ukraine- he thinks it’s not a real country, he wanted it, and he thought it would be easy and the West would fracture. He was wrong. 
 

GTFO out of here with your bullshit about Russia not really shelling corridors or taking hostages. Putin has done this shit for 20 fucking years in Grozny and Syria. It’s the playbook.  But you have said you watch RT for their perspective. Do you have barber shop floor sweepings inside your skull cavity? Cause that’s the only reason I can see to watch RT. 

Agree with all of this except the part where you said Putin's not a diabolical madman. 

[F250 28659]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Someone upthread hailed this as the comeback for Neocon foreign policy. Comeback to what? When were the glory days? Where are the success stories?

 

That was me and I didn't hail it as a come back, just observing what is happening. I lean towards non-intervention even before the war on terror. I understand your point of view and consider it reasonable but I have to say that you are terrible at messaging.

The same thing occurred in the thread about social media filtering the news.

 

You tend to get worked up and come off like this.

 

[Gidnik 3250]

Get fucked putin

[Scheiss Meister 8398]

3 hours ago, bangkok said:

i'd hate to see this drag on for months, and it seems to be heading that direction. the longer this continues, the more desperate putin becomes. even the discussion of nukes possibly being used is a discussion that shouldn't be happening.

we'll keep sending tons of weapons to ukraine, and that pisses putin off as much as the sanctions do. we'll do everything we can to give ukraine support while closely watching putin's reaction to avoid crossing the line.

it's clear we have some intelligence closely tied to the kremlin. but.. is that best?

i think we should throw out a lifeline, where both sides can walk away and claim victory or at least a draw, a stalemate, a treaty?

how do we do that?

a 50km or so demilitarized / peacekeeping zone 50km deep into the ukrainian side of the border.

anyone russia wanted to "liberate" can move freely into russia if they choose.

no violence within. if you want russian rule, go to that side. if you don't, go to the other side.

treaty signed includes no nato for ukraine for some-odd number of years, but no promises either if nato countries further bolster ukrainian defenses or support democracy there. and i'm sure russia would also counter with their own shit like "ok, fine, but no promises from us either and we'll support pro-russia government there and regroup for our next moves too." under the table, of course. kind of a fuck you, yea fuck you too, but lets fuck off for awhile.

thats better than status quo from both sides, and russia could walk away claiming they liberated ukraine from the neo nazi's and end most of the sanctions.

then putin could propagandize that to the general population and claim success. ukraine would also be able to say they successfully defended themselves and gained alot of support from the west, defensively, politically, and financially.

something like that on the cards, or am i an ignorant idiot?

tl;dr: can putin be given a face-saving out, and what does that entail? or are we committed to making mad vlad prove he's actually, truly mad and accepting the consequences of that?

Fuck Putin's face.  He should have considered that before he started this shit.  I was raised that I should never start a fight, but I better be ready to emphatically end a fight on my terms.  Ukraine deserves no less.

[mchookem 16094]

umm so maybe i missed it but i don't recall seeing anybody on either thread 'war mongering' and advocating for the US or UN or whomever to jump right into the fray here. 

so, like...wtf are some of you guys even talking about?? i feel like i'm taking crazy pills. 🤨

[Huckleberry 32685]

17 minutes ago, F250 said:

That was me and I didn't hail it as a come back, just observing what is happening. I lean towards non-intervention even before the war on terror. I understand your point of view and consider it reasonable but I have to say that you are terrible at messaging.

The same thing occurred in the thread about social media filtering the news.

 

You tend to get worked up and come off like this.

 

Mugatu was making an accurate statement. 

You (kindly) responded to an accusation that again demonstrated he doesn't understand what he's reading. If he has a messaging problem it's based on his comprehension issues. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Huckleberry

[Caponata 151]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

 I get that you think you're being funny, but the fact that you think Neo-Cons like Kristol are the same as leftists and progressives reveals far more about you than the intended target. Hey, at least Kristol didn't abandon everything he stood for just because Donald Trump told him to.

Leftists & progressives are the ones who criticize the likes of Kristol. Wildcat is neither of those.

 

[RomaVicta 29756]

18 minutes ago, Caponata said:

Leftists & progressives are the ones who criticize the likes of Kristol. Wildcat is neither of those.

Ahhhh, you're a liberal spokesperson in the tradition of Rush Limbaugh. Kristol is key in the Lincoln Project, do you suppose the ebil libs that haunt your delusional rage dreams disapprove of the Lincoln Project?

I don't know whether I may be a leftist or a progressive because dissemblers like you destroy language. You only know leftists and progressives as the hate engine has defined them for you on the movie screen in your head. They hate America. They're socialists who want to destroy the rich you and your family! They have...agendas!

[Hermanator 6916]

4 hours ago, bangkok said:

 

why do that, if we can offer a peaceful alternative where both sides can agree to disagree and find support on either spectrum.

What about Putin's actions through the last several years suggests he's open to agree to disagree and withdraw his troops peacefully? 

He's all in. Ukraine is all in. We better be all in too. This ends when Putin is deposed or pulls a GWB and declares mission accomplished when he realizes not doing so will cause him more harm than good. If that's even possible at this point. 

[Caponata 151]

37 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Ahhhh, you're a liberal spokesperson in the tradition of Rush Limbaugh. Kristol is key in the Lincoln Project, do you suppose the ebil libs that haunt your delusional rage dreams disapprove of the Lincoln Project?

I don't know whether I may be a leftist or a progressive because dissemblers like you destroy language. You only know leftists and progressives as the hate engine has defined them for you on the movie screen in your head. They hate America. They're socialists who want to destroy the rich you and your family! They have...agendas!

Rush Limbaugh is terrible and left a stain of hate, vitriol, & divisiveness. Trump, also, is terrible. Trump being a POS doesn"t mean you need to endorse & tout ghouls like Bill fucking Kristol. Also your boy Biden in his words "Beat the socialist". Can't have things like universal healthcare which he is fervently against.

 

[immamac 42492]

2 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

What about Putin's actions through the last several years suggests he's open to agree to disagree and withdraw his troops peacefully? 

He's all in. Ukraine is all in. We better be all in too. This ends when Putin is deposed or pulls a GWB and declares mission accomplished when he realizes not doing so will cause him more harm than good. If that's even possible at this point. 

Except this time after mission accomplished they get no sanctions lifted. They are just permanently fucked until they give Ukraine completely back and have a regime change. 

[Tuco 5076]

Ask the people of Crimea where they would rather be. This is about popular demand, right?

They already had this vote in 1991. 92.3% of Ukraine as a whole voted for independence from Russia, with 54.2% of Crimea voting for it. Putin doesn’t get to dictate a fucking do-over through invasion 30 years later.

Out of curiosity , did you already know that?

[jimmyjazz 45513]

4 minutes ago, Tuco said:

They already had this vote in 1991. 92.3% of Ukraine as a whole voted for independence from Russia, with 54.2% of Crimea voting for it. Putin doesn’t get to dictate a fucking do-over through invasion 30 years later.

Out of curiosity , did you already know that?

Maybe it's like Austin and public transportation -- keep voting until the results flip.

[Guest Lobo]

14 minutes ago, Caponata said:

Rush Limbaugh is terrible and left a stain of hate, vitriol, & divisiveness. Trump, also, is terrible. Trump being a POS doesn"t mean you need to endorse & tout ghouls like Bill fucking Kristol. Also your boy Biden in his words "Beat the socialist". Can't have things like universal healthcare which he is fervently against.

 

Whoah, whoah, whoah.  I know everybody that ever held a conservative thought in their head is an evil piece of shit...but do not conflate Bill Kristol and Rush Limbaugh.  They have nothing to do with one another.  Also, I invited George Will to UT next month and he accepted.  Y'all fucking behave!!!!!!!!

[jimmyjazz 45513]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

Whoah, whoah, whoah.  I know everybody that ever held a conservative thought in their head is an evil piece of shit...but do not conflate Bill Kristol and Rush Limbaugh.  They have nothing to do with one another.  Also, I invited George Will to UT next month and he accepted.  Y'all fucking behave!!!!!!!!

Do you have 9 different jobs, or do you just act like you have 9 different jobs?

[Guest Lobo]

I do not have 9 different jobs.  I just volunteer a lot.  Keeps me from spinning into infinity.  

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1258]

2 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

No, but we are arming them so I feel we have more input than just some innocent bystanders. I wouldn’t have asked them to initiate talks or anything either. They’re already doing it on their own. 

 

 

 

Not nearly as clever as "Let's Go Brandon," da?

[Willfully Horn 7913]

20 minutes ago, Lobo said:

but do not conflate Bill Kristol with Satan’s fluffer

Never cast a general election vote for an R, and I agree with this.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Willfully Horn

[Hermanator 6916]

29 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Do you have 9 different jobs, or do you just act like you have 9 different jobs?

I just assumed he was a professor of logcat posts 

[Guest Lobo]

Nope, my post length...over my history is only slightly longer than the average poster (that's what she said).  The ability for so many other posters to recall what I posted years ago combined with their ability to constantly bitch over and over again about my posting style/length does mean I do not have 9 jobs, but rather 9 wives on here.  The gift some of y'all have to instantly recall something I said 4 years ago and take issue with the prose and volume with which i said it, is simply stunning.  Some of y'all will make fine brides one day.  But I still like the place, makes me laugh and I hope I make a few others laugh.  The cunt that is clapclapcalp notwithstanding.  

[cactusflinthead 27593]

43 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I do not have 9 different jobs.  I just volunteer a lot.  Keeps me from spinning into infinity.  

Wait. You took that info from the test your buddy gave you and did the exact opposite? Joined every dang bunch you could find.

Figures

[Guest Lobo]

Just now, cactusflinthead said:

Wait. You took that info from the test your buddy gave you and did the exact opposite? Joined every dang bunch you could find.

Figures

Like I said, giving back keeps me tethered to this planet.  That and my daughter's smile.  Otherwise, whoah.  I'm a big believer in "leave it better than you found it" 

[cactusflinthead 27593]

Just giving you shit. Keep on rocking

[hookemATL 11596]

24 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Nope, my post length...over my history is only slightly longer than the average poster (that's what she said).  The ability for so many other posters to recall what I posted years ago combined with their ability to constantly bitch over and over again about my posting style/length does mean I do not have 9 jobs, but rather 9 wives on here.  The gift some of y'all have to instantly recall something I said 4 years ago and take issue with the prose and volume with which i said it, is simply stunning.  Some of y'all will make fine brides one day.  But I still like the place, makes me laugh and I hope I make a few others laugh.  The cunt that is clapclapcalp notwithstanding.  

Tldr

[Longhorn_Fan68 33825]

 

[TexArcher 37455]

Had a heart attack on his way down the elevator shaft?

[RomaVicta 29756]

1 hour ago, Caponata said:

Rush Limbaugh is terrible and left a stain of hate, vitriol, & divisiveness. Trump, also, is terrible. Trump being a POS doesn"t mean you need to endorse & tout ghouls like Bill fucking Kristol. Also your boy Biden in his words "Beat the socialist". Can't have things like universal healthcare which he is fervently against.

 

I'm now thoroughly convinced that you are an honest intellectual striving for impartiality. You hate Trump and Rush, so we're buds!

You say I endorse and tout ghouls such as Kristol and "my boy" Biden. I'm not sure your English teacher steered you right on some of those words, tovarisch.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

For the record, the only failure of intelligence that led to the Iraq War was the failure of intelligence in the Oval Office. The Iraq War was going to happen. It was a foregone conclusion as soon as Dubya got elected. Bush basically told the CIA that he only wanted justification to go to war. If you think the Iraq War was the fault of the CIA then you are horribly uninformed on the subject. There were members of the intelligence community, both ours and our allies’, fighting against Bush’s & Cheney’s deception at every step along the way. Sadly, George Tenet wasn’t one of them. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

Thing is, we haven’t invaded and laid waste to any adjacent lands.  Have we waged war by proxy, sure, but so have they.  There is a line and that dipshit has crossed it.  If you don’t like the rules go play someplace else.  Good luck finding it.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Thing is, we haven’t invaded and laid waste to any adjacent lands.  Have we waged war by proxy, sure, but so have they.  There is a line and that dipshit has crossed it.  If you don’t like the rules go play someplace else.  Good luck finding it.  

Mexico 1845? Snatched half the nation and ravaged the other half. I am grateful because it means I get to live in America but it was a brutal land grab. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Fucking cope cage.  Another post as a cope cage. 
 

Putin isn’t a diabolical madman. He had bad assumptions driven by bad information because of his authoritarian system. Ukraine wasn’t on the verge of joining NATO and he knew that. He told you and the Russian nation why he invaded Ukraine- he thinks it’s not a real country, he wanted it, and he thought it would be easy and the West would fracture. He was wrong. 
 

GTFO out of here with your bullshit about Russia not really shelling corridors or taking hostages. Putin has done this shit for 20 fucking years in Grozny and Syria. It’s the playbook.  But you have said you watch RT for their perspective. Do you have barber shop floor sweepings inside your skull cavity? Cause that’s the only reason I can see to watch RT. 

 

3 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

Why won't you explain how a fucking defensive alliance threatens Russia unless they start rampaging through Europe? I asked nicely. 

I really want to hear this retarded reasoning.

Here is that lack of empathy: Russia does not view NATO as a defensive alliance. Russia has an eternal paranoia about their borders dating back to Genghis Khan. We -- meaning the west -- have rolled back their "defensive alliance" on every front except for the shortest route to Moscow. Instead of settling for bringing Romania, the Baltics, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria into the west, we had to prick-tease Georgia and Ukraine too. It got a bunch of Georgians killed in 2008 and it's getting a bunch of Ukrainians killed today.

 

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

They already had this vote in 1991. 92.3% of Ukraine as a whole voted for independence from Russia, with 54.2% of Crimea voting for it. Putin doesn’t get to dictate a fucking do-over through invasion 30 years later.

Out of curiosity , did you already know that?

1991? Really? A vote in Houston would have nothing in common with a vote that old and it's not because Putin manipulated the electorate. In a just world Crimea would be given back to the Tatars but that's not the world we live in.

[immamac 42492]

13 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

Here is that lack of empathy: Russia does not view NATO as a defensive alliance. Russia has an eternal paranoia about their borders dating back to Genghis Khan. We -- meaning the west -- have rolled back their "defensive alliance" on every front except for the shortest route to Moscow. Instead of settling for bringing Romania, the Baltics, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria into the west, we had to prick-tease Georgia and Ukraine too. It got a bunch of Georgians killed in 2008 and it's getting a bunch of Ukrainians killed today.

 

1991? Really? A vote in Houston would have nothing in common with a vote that old and it's not because Putin manipulated the electorate. In a just world Crimea would be given back to the Tatars but that's not the world we live in.

I'm about to straight ban you. I'm tired of your fucking stupidity you sound like a Russian troll

[Willfully Horn 7913]

[cactusflinthead 27593]

We're going back Manifest Destiny for something to hang on Ukraine?

Really?

This is a time when DT has had a better handle on the storyline.

Look. This is a war of grunts with technology. Y'all can argue about the relative value of the war now with one nearly two centuries ago. But, this is what the war is about.

This is gutting Russia. Save the philosophical arguments. Get fucking real. One man is listening to his soldiers. One of the men at the far end of that long table had a heart attack. One of the best friends of the man at the other end.

Sweatergawd. Some focusness would be great.

[Scheiss Meister 8398]

As Russia is pushed further back, I wonder if we'll see more of the appeasement posts.  I bet we do.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

32 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Mexico 1845? Snatched half the nation and ravaged the other half. I am grateful because it means I get to live in America but it was a brutal land grab. 

Yeah in one respect it was.  I’m a little unclear on the invasion aspect there in 1836 though.  Pretty sure that was an internal conflict.   The other not so much.  
Fact remains Russia is clearly invading Ukraine and committing war crimes in order to annex territory and/or exert control.  This isn’t fucking 1845.  

[Tuco 5076]

1991? Really? A vote in Houston would have nothing in common with a vote that old and it's not because Putin manipulated the electorate. In a just world Crimea would be given back to the Tatars but that's not the world we live in.

Yeah, you’re a fucking troll.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

Siap. Hadn’t seen this anywhere here yet. This is reported on by the Financial Times in London. I think it’s important to see how they’re selling this invasion to their people. Looks like Putin is lowering everyone’s expectations. Setting up for the eventual way out?
 

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

I don’t get it apparently.  I stole a package of watermelon Now R Laters from the store when I was 10.  So now if someone wants to kill a bunch of people and level their country, I have no moral high ground.  Fucking ridiculous.  Wrong is wrong.  I surrender my candy.  

[cactusflinthead 27593]

There's some history. Considerably more pertinent than the Mexican War.

[Guest Lobo]

Good for Russia getting rid of CRT books the ole' fashioned way! 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Probably already posted but lol 

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Hugo Stiglitz

[bolverk 29359]

53 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

1991? Really? A vote in Houston would have nothing in common with a vote that old and it's not because Putin manipulated the electorate. In a just world Crimea would be given back to the Tatars but that's not the world we live in.

What few Tatars were left in Crimea after the peninsula had been -- over decades -- ethnically cleansed by Russia boycotted that referendum where voters were virtually held at the point of a gun and OSCE observers were told to leave. Moreover, a "blue hat" UN resolution was adopted (100 to 11) that declared the election was invalid and affirmed Crimea still belonged to Ukraine.

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

30 days in and Russia still hasn’t encircled Kyiv. I’m hearing reports on tv news that the Russians are changing tactics, pulling back their soldiers and are going to just lob shells at Ukrainian civilians. I can’t confirm that. But I have heard that the Ukrainians have retaken some ground from the Russians on the outskirts of Kyiv. Everyone should redouble their efforts to supply them with weapons. And give them those MIGs.

I heard on CBS News yesterday that the body count of Russian generals killed in Ukraine is up to six. Last I heard it was four. That seems like a big deal. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

In the interest of humanity and peace on earth, please watch:

 

 

[cactusflinthead 27593]

@SimonBolivar over there in DT rolling out lobs.

I mean Tucker Carlson is a lead story on Russian TV. 

There are definitely worthy topics. Tulsi's views took a nosedive anyone?

Maybe a discussion of the relative value of a functional NCO oriented army via Hertling et al?

No? Pallets and tires then? Telenko Bwahaha what a hoot!

Y'all can do better than this.