Ukraine War

[Bozo_Casanova 26488]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

None of that absolves Russia for the invasion. It does not absolve war crimes being conducted in Ukraine.  It does not absolve Vladimir Putin. Just tries to promote some self reflection on the role that we played in the world during the unipolar moment and the role that we play in how the geopolitical pieces are currently arranged.

No doubt, and yet, it was by deliberately undermining American leadership and implicitly the American guarantee of the post-WWII rules based international system (for all of its ironies and clumsy inhumanity) that led us to this moment.
And I say without malice or irony- you and others like you who knew and know what was at stake and voted for it anyway because you thought there was some kind of exposure or greater good to be achieved should reflect on what has been lost. You are one citizen, but it really did matter. Pandora’s box is open.

[Brisketexan 105156]

1 hour ago, Horn Dog said:

Having a really shitty day guys.  Forgot to let the dog out last night so she pooped in the hallway.  Also could not find my car keys this morning.   If not for the fucked up US foreign entanglements and policies of the 80's and 90's, none of this would have happened.

[Brian Fantana 6689]

@Anastasis I strongly agree with the need to objectively examine our own actions with regard to global geopolitics, and I think most people here would agree with that as well. Hell, I wouldn't bat an eye at anyone flat out describing us as a terrorist state in a lot of situations that have arisen due to our [mostly] awful foreign policy. We've caused a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering in the name of capitalist ideals, and forced a lot of hands against us in the process.

That being said, wielding that position like a blunt instrument repeatedly in a thread like this is not really very useful to the discussion at hand.

[Brisketexan 105156]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No doubt, and yet, it was by deliberately undermining American leadership and implicitly the American guarantee of the post-WWII rules based international system (for all of its ironies and clumsy inhumanity) that led us to this moment.
And I say without malice or irony- you and others like you who knew and know what was at stake and voted for it anyway because you thought there was some kind of exposure or greater good to be achieved should reflect on what has been lost. You are one citizen, but it really did matter. Pandora’s box is open.

 

This.  For all of its faults -- and there are many -- the "liberal postwar order" and the attacks on and decline of same are quite relevant.   If you want to connect these current events to the United States and its actions or inactions, it would be intellectually dishonest to fail to account for the complicity of millions upon millions of Americans in happily assaulting and undermining that order, setting the stage for what is happening right now.

A sizeable chunk of America, including an entire political party, has worked in parallel (if not direct cooperation - I know, "Russia, Russia, Russia!" - shove that up your ass, it's beyond argument that the messaging, rhetoric, and near-term goals of Russia and their GQP sycophants are in such close parallel that it ain't a goddamned coincidence)  with the goals and strategies of the quasi-fascist authoritarian manipulative populism of Russia, Hungary, etc.  Every message and manipulation communicated by Russia found champions here, and the goal of all of those was a weakened America, NATO, and the idea of liberal democratic governance (again, flawed as our model may be in the execution).

This outcome -- a perceived weakened West, an emboldened Russia, and then the action Russia has taken based on those expectations, is EXACTLY what you and millions of others wanted.  As Bozo said in another post, this is what "burn it down" looks like.  You may have problems with the western approach, but when you undermine it and force it to retreat.....this is EXACTLY what fills the void:

 

These are your wishes coming true.  Those of us who have repeatedly warned about the cost of such wishes are getting really fucking tired of being right.

[PsychMike 1552]

51 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Russian soldiers are receiving frightening text messages: indeed, after the war, we will find you; revenge by Ukrainians is imminent; neither you nor your family members are safe, even if you never depart Russia.  One message reads, "Maybe not today, but tomorrow or in a year, you will die.  We are coming after you."

[wildcat09 29355]

As a reminder, this was Ana's response to a lot of people expressing disgust on Monday at Putin's war crimes:

Quote

Good stuff here guys.  Will be fun to unpack in a few years when we create some distance. 

I don't think a single poster had even expressed a desire to invade Russia, nuke Moscow, kill Russians, or anything like that. It was simply a unified reaction of disgust as the evidence from Bucha came to light. And that was how Ana chose to comment on it.

Now he's back making a post that sounds perfectly reasonable, but it's just cover for his shitposting. Because he's a broken person who is so internet poisoned he's incapable of expressing any sincerity and compulsively needs to dunk on anyone else who does express sincerity. 

[Brisketexan 105156]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

As a reminder, this was Ana's response to a lot of people expressing disgust on Monday at Putin's war crimes:

I don't think a single poster had even expressed a desire to invade Russia, nuke Moscow, kill Russians, or anything like that. It was simply a unified reaction of disgust as the evidence from Bucha came to light. And that was how Ana chose to comment on it.

Now he's back making a post that sounds perfectly reasonable, but it's just cover for his shitposting. Because he's a broken person who is so internet poisoned he's incapable of expressing any sincerity and compulsively needs to dunk on anyone else who does express sincerity. 

Oh, full disclosure -- as to the bolded, I sure as fuck have.  Without shame or apology.  It's long been a flaw of mine -- I think that murderous fascists should die.  I want every Russian soldier who raped a woman, shot a civilian in the back of the head, etc., to die, preferably in pain.  And the same for all Russian soldiers who supported him in doing so.  I'll just have to live with that personal flaw, I guess.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

32 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

“I tried to stand up and fly straight, but it wasn't easy with that sumbitch Reagan in the White House. I dunno. They say he's a decent man, so maybe his advisors are confused.”

[956 Worldwide 34715]

This thread is perfection. 

[VRHorn 718]

29 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

This.  For all of its faults -- and there are many -- the "liberal postwar order" and the attacks on and decline of same are quite relevant.   If you want to connect these current events to the United States and its actions or inactions, it would be intellectually dishonest to fail to account for the complicity of millions upon millions of Americans in happily assaulting and undermining that order, setting the stage for what is happening right now.

A sizeable chunk of America, including an entire political party, has worked in parallel (if not direct cooperation - I know, "Russia, Russia, Russia!" - shove that up your ass, it's beyond argument that the messaging, rhetoric, and near-term goals of Russia and their GQP sycophants are in such close parallel that it ain't a goddamned coincidence)  with the goals and strategies of the quasi-fascist authoritarian manipulative populism of Russia, Hungary, etc.  Every message and manipulation communicated by Russia found champions here, and the goal of all of those was a weakened America, NATO, and the idea of liberal democratic governance (again, flawed as our model may be in the execution).

This outcome -- a perceived weakened West, an emboldened Russia, and then the action Russia has taken based on those expectations, is EXACTLY what you and millions of others wanted.  As Bozo said in another post, this is what "burn it down" looks like.  You may have problems with the western approach, but when you undermine it and force it to retreat.....this is EXACTLY what fills the void:

 

These are your wishes coming true.  Those of us who have repeatedly warned about the cost of such wishes are getting really fucking tired of being right.

Honestly, this is a little histrionic - it's not like CPAC is about to start in Hungary or anything.

As a 2016 "soft" burn it down person, the actions of certain people like Ana are sickening to me.

Edited April 6, 2022 by VRHorn

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

 

[sidis 9832]

16 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No doubt, and yet, it was by deliberately undermining American leadership and implicitly the American guarantee of the post-WWII rules based international system (for all of its ironies and clumsy inhumanity) that led us to this moment.
And I say without malice or irony- you and others like you who knew and know what was at stake and voted for it anyway because you thought there was some kind of exposure or greater good to be achieved should reflect on what has been lost. You are one citizen, but it really did matter. Pandora’s box is open.

 

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

This.  For all of its faults -- and there are many -- the "liberal postwar order" and the attacks on and decline of same are quite relevant.   If you want to connect these current events to the United States and its actions or inactions, it would be intellectually dishonest to fail to account for the complicity of millions upon millions of Americans in happily assaulting and undermining that order, setting the stage for what is happening right now.

A sizeable chunk of America, including an entire political party, has worked in parallel (if not direct cooperation - I know, "Russia, Russia, Russia!" - shove that up your ass, it's beyond argument that the messaging, rhetoric, and near-term goals of Russia and their GQP sycophants are in such close parallel that it ain't a goddamned coincidence)  with the goals and strategies of the quasi-fascist authoritarian manipulative populism of Russia, Hungary, etc.  Every message and manipulation communicated by Russia found champions here, and the goal of all of those was a weakened America, NATO, and the idea of liberal democratic governance (again, flawed as our model may be in the execution).

This outcome -- a perceived weakened West, an emboldened Russia, and then the action Russia has taken based on those expectations, is EXACTLY what you and millions of others wanted.  As Bozo said in another post, this is what "burn it down" looks like.  You may have problems with the western approach, but when you undermine it and force it to retreat.....this is EXACTLY what fills the void:

 

These are your wishes coming true.  Those of us who have repeatedly warned about the cost of such wishes are getting really fucking tired of being right.

 

i believe you two are conflating anastasis and phdhorn here.  phdhorn was the one that was the ultra-vocal trump supporter from late 2015 through 2016 cheering on the circus on the old site.  he, like many of the former cr posters that presently like to whine about the cr forum while feigning some superiority as a result of reading/repping the forum constantly but not having the fortitude to actually post (cheeseweasel, etc...), disappeared when he realized that being an apologist for an actual trump presidency was simply not possible while retaining any sense of dignity or decency.  but that wasn't anastasis as far as i remember.  i would be very surprised to learn that anastasis voted for trump despite his hollow message board "burn it all down" mantra...as well as being the resident conservative/libertarian apologist on most things.  i suppose i could be wrong.  i was actually disappointed to see him repping lame shit like clapclap's dumbfuck "why are liberals mad at elon...he's america's most successful african american lolololol" tripe...which i found out of character (a point on which wildcat and i disagree)...but i just can't see it.  there does seem to be some personal message board interpersonal dynamics driving a lot of the posting these days though...from a lot of fucking posters.

i do find what i used to call his blind spot on russia to be interesting...saturating the board with posts over the last two years posturing as if the pre-2016 electoral interference and the meetings between russian proxies and the trump campaign (who employed fucking paul manafort for fuck's sake) in trump tower just didn't happen and that anyone that thought there was anything from collusion to simple useful idiot shananigans were going on was foolish.  a particularly amusing one in light of trump openly asking for dirt on biden from putin in the midst of putin's invasion of ukraine which is so insane that we as a society don't even know how to process that one.  his constant callbacks to the russian bounty propaganda talk...his constant posting of the obama-putin flexibility after the election discussion video (as if the reality of that video was in any way actually scandalous)...a constant focus on the nord 2 pipeline...it just seems bizarre.  there's a weird theme there that makes him a bit of the inverse of hugo when it comes to russia...it's hard for me to discern.  in contrast, he expressed that he thought that trump should be impeached and convicted after the Helsinki fiasco with putin if i remember correctly.

i suspect i'm looking for a consistent thread where one doesn't exist though and that some of this may be fueled by petty message board nonsense.  it is not as obvious as fozz/dsa used to be or (apparently) maybeacoordinator...which was wildly out of nowhere.  there has to be some sort of russian history there to explain that shit.

ultimately, whether one chooses to simply inform themselves with remnick's "lenin's tomb," or goes beyond that in time and consumes all the scholarship on russian culture, politics, and the conditions giving rise to its current environment (i personally enjoyed "the new nobility" and mankoff's "russian foreign policy"), there is zero doubt that 20th century american interventionism has played a role in virtually every continent since the first world war and it is generally really nasty...something i have posted about a lot.  however, drawing an equivalence between the inevitability of ww2 germany as a result of the treaty of Versailles and the inevitability of russia being russia (and wanting a buffer in the sarmatic and northern European plains, as well as control of and ability to draw water down to crimean ports, certainty in its control of pipeline transportation across ukraine, access to Baltic energy exploration, control of Ukrainian agriculture and the immediate economic diversification as a result, and a bunch of delusional hegemony desires, etc...) because of the post-soviet collapse american foreign policy (really its lack of corporate and banking restraint) in the economic free-for-all that was the 1990's in russia is a fairly large stretch.  aggressive expansion of nato?  sure, maybe.  but russia's ambitions are and have always been russia's ambitions when it comes to ukraine and the baltic states for strategic and economic reasons.  where we are today is awful and i hope the russian establishment suffers greatly for it.  fuck them in every possible way...those fucking fucks.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

the cover up is beginning

 

[Hookah Horns 3083]

24 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This thread is perfection. 

"Russia is peaceful country surrounded by ceasefires."

[Hookah Horns 3083]

20 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

the cover up is beginning

 

Getting the sonderkommando back together. Really didn't think I'd see this kind of shit during my lifetime, and I'm a pessimistic person.

[Brisketexan 105156]

15 minutes ago, sidis said:

i do find what i used to call his blind spot on russia to be interesting...saturating the board with posts over the last two years posturing as if the pre-2016 electoral interference and the meetings between russian proxies and the trump campaign (who employed fucking paul manafort for fuck's sake) in trump tower just didn't happen and that anyone that thought there was anything from collusion to simple useful idiot shananigans were going on was foolish.  a particularly amusing one in light of trump openly asking for dirt on biden from putin in the midst of putin's invasion of ukraine which is so insane that we as a society don't even know how to process that one.  his constant callbacks to the russian bounty propaganda talk...his constant posting of the obama-putin flexibility after the election discussion video (as if the reality of that video was in any way actually scandalous)...a constant focus on the nord 2 pipeline...it just seems bizarre.  there's a weird theme there that makes him a bit of the inverse of hugo when it comes to russia...it's hard for me to discern.

It's not a blindspot, it's purposeful sleight-of-hand/whitewashing of any Russian role or malfeasance -- and certainly of any impact of same -- with respect to the US and the West.  The US is all-powerful, and can and should be indicted for everything that has happened in the world since 1776....but anything Russia has done is so trivial that the mere mention of it way overplays its impact.

I am not shy and never have been about standing for the idea that we should remain introspective and critical of our own roles and actions -- after all, whose actions can we control more effectively than our own?  I often voice it as a criticism of the "America's the best country evar, if you don't like it, LEAVE!" crowd -- no, fuck you, if I love this country, I can and should want to make it better, and that means dealing with the places where we are fucked up.

But Anastasis is on a whole 'nother plane.  No matter what the issue, it comes back to "blame America first," absolution of Russia in both thought and impact, and an end point of "burn it all down," without regard for the people who get their flesh burned off in the conflagration that follows.  It's lazy and intellectually dishonest, all while desperately trying to claim a mantle of being "above it all."  I call bullshit.

21 minutes ago, sidis said:

there is zero doubt that 20th century american interventionism has played a role in virtually every continent since the first world war and it is generally really nasty...something i have posted about a lot.  

100%.  American international involvement has some big wins, and some shameful losses.  I don't think anyone on this particular board disagrees with that.

23 minutes ago, sidis said:

 however, drawing an equivalence between the inevitability of ww2 germany as a result of the treaty of Versailles and the inevitability of russia being russia (and wanting a buffer in the sarmatic and northern European plains, as well as control of and ability to draw water down to crimean ports, certainty in its control of pipeline transportation across ukraine, access to Baltic energy exploration, control of Ukrainian agriculture and the immediate economic diversification as a result, and a bunch of delusional hegemony desires, etc...) because of the post-soviet collapse american foreign policy (really its lack of corporate and banking restraint) in the economic free-for-all that was the 1990's in russia is a fairly large stretch.  aggressive expansion of nato?  sure, maybe.  but russia's ambitions are and have always been russia's ambitions when it comes to ukraine and the baltic states for strategic and economic reasons.  

And most certainly this.  The implicit dismissal of Russian agency by the "first, let's figure out how to blame the US for this" crowd is amazing.  It's as if nobody else on this planet makes a move without the US pulling their strings.  By that lens, we aren't a country -- we're God.  It's bullshit, and it has the shittacular outcome of functionally absolving every other actor of culpability because, after all, "America made them do it."

[cactusflinthead 27601]

Logistics baby

[cactusflinthead 27601]

On the note about killing the Russians, sometimes you get better results with some hot food and meds.

I know it's tempting to kill every single one of them without regard to notions of decency, but sometimes it pays off.

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by cactusflinthead

[TwiceHorn 31496]

Also, to quote a Stephen King character, or the man himself:

Done bun can't be undone.

Sure, we've fucked up foreign policy w/r/to Russia and all over the place.  And so has everyone else.  

But we can't change that now.  And bemoaning that is not a lot of help in dealing with the "facts on the ground" right now.

Is it worthy of study and reflection in an academic sense, and beyond?  Absolutely.  But it probably doesn't bear belaboring in the immediate present, at least for those with decisions to make.

Probably the best thing to do in the immediate present would be to start another thread for those inclined to hash it over.

[Huckleberry 32998]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Probably the best thing to do in the immediate present would be to start another thread for those inclined to hash it over.

That might work if genuine discussion was their goal rather than obfuscation. The Yemen thread could be updated with our continued missteps but why post about those there when you can sidetrack a discussion about Russia's misdeeds? 

(The last post on the Yemen thread was on December 3, 2020)

[956 Worldwide 34715]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

On the note about killing the Russians, sometimes you get better results with some hot food and meds.

I know it's tempting to kill every single one of them without regard to notions of decency, but sometimes it pays off.

 

It’s also a breakdown of good order and discipline and the propaganda value for Russia is immense, beyond being unjustifiable. 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It’s also a breakdown of good order and discipline and the propaganda value for Russia is immense, beyond being unjustifiable. 

I think this was for my other post? About trashing houses?

[wildcat09 29355]

So there's a tweet that appears to show that Russian soldiers butchered and ate people's pet dogs. Don't think it's been verified yet so don't want to link it, but if it is verified that'll pose quite the conundrum for a lot of Republicans. They were pretty clear in a lot of their talk about China after covid went pandemic that the Chinese were uniquely awful because they ate dogs, while they embraced Putin and Russia as the last bastion of Christian values. I'm sure they'll reconsider all their racial beliefs when presented with this contradictory information.

[tchookem 3900]

Even as a kid, I never gave Reagan full credit for bringing down the Soviet Union...my late father and a few decent schoolteachers educated me enough on that topic.  But Reagan distrusted them, he knew the menace they were, he knew their internal vulnerabilities and inward pointed daggers.  He knew their treatment of humanity was a farce, he knew their imperialism would not stop---particularly among vulnerable nations.  And he knew above all else, they had very little to lose and thus had to be kept on a short leash.  Reagan understood their strength came from the illusion of their strength.  And here I am, watching 25 million Americans jerk off to Putin, blaming us for this crime against humanity in Ukraine.  All because their dear leader thinks Vlad is just a misunderstood genius protecting his borders. 

I think you're still giving Reagan too much credit. The more I learn about Reagan the more I see him as Trump with better communication skills and the ability to pick smarter (but equally shitty) people. I'm sure he distrusted the Russians, but it was just the run-of-mill Commies are bad ideology that everyone believed. I don't think he had any great insight that wasn't fed to him by his smarter (but equally shitty) underlings.

TLDR - Reagan was a figurehead and a tool used by shitty people to do shitty things.

[Gatorubet 30246]

5 minutes ago, tchookem said:

 

 

I think you're still giving Reagan too much credit. The more I learn about Reagan the more I see him as Trump with better communication skills and the ability to pick smarter (but equally shitty) people. I'm sure he distrusted the Russians, but it was just the run-of-mill Commies are bad ideology that everyone believed. I don't think he had any great insight that wasn't fed to him by his smarter (but equally shitty) underlings.

TLDR - Reagan was a figurehead and a tool used by shitty people to do shitty things.

 

Well, maybe his Astrologer told him stuff. 

[tchookem 3900]

Well, maybe his Astrologer told him stuff. 

Considering the skills Nancy was rumored to have, I can forgive him listening to an astrologer at her urging.

[jimmyjazz 45977]

Reagan meddled in the Iran hostage release process to the point where it happened on the day of his inauguration.  Anyone who thinks he was some kind of statesman is sorely misinformed.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, tchookem said:

 

 

I think you're still giving Reagan too much credit. The more I learn about Reagan the more I see him as Trump with better communication skills and the ability to pick smarter (but equally shitty) people. I'm sure he distrusted the Russians, but it was just the run-of-mill Commies are bad ideology that everyone believed. I don't think he had any great insight that wasn't fed to him by his smarter (but equally shitty) underlings.

TLDR - Reagan was a figurehead and a tool used by shitty people to do shitty things.

 

And you're underestimating him.  He said communism is bad, and did something about it thru increased military spending, throwing Star Wars on the table. Calling out the leaders of the Soviet union in public with blunt in your face comments.  That's a cliffs note version of some of his strong points. He definitely had some issues, but on his rhetoric, and actions regarding the Soviet Union, he led the charge to bury them.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

5 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

the cover up is beginning

 

Seems like the exact opposite of de-Nazification.

[Woland 733]

And you're underestimating him.  He said communism is bad, and did something about it thru increased military spending, throwing Star Wars on the table. Calling out the leaders of the Soviet union in public with blunt in your face comments.  That's a cliffs note version of some of his strong points. He definitely had some issues, but on his rhetoric, and actions regarding the Soviet Union, he led the charge to bury them.

He also damn near got us into a nuclear war… which is a good example that foreign policy is a fucking messy endeavor and always comes with unforeseen consequences. The future is always a tough gamble. It’s easy to judge past actions.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Woland said:

He also damn near got us into a nuclear war… which is a good example that foreign policy is a fucking messy endeavor and always comes with unforeseen consequences. The future is always a tough gamble. It’s easy to judge past actions.

He did ?  Which event was that ?

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

1 hour ago, tchookem said:

1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

Well, maybe his Astrologer told him stuff. 

Considering the skills Nancy was rumored to have, I can forgive him listening to an astrologer at her urging.

I don’t care if she could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch. She was an idiot and “Just say no” was one of the dumbest campaigns ever. 

[tchookem 3900]

And you're underestimating him.  He said communism is bad, and did something about it thru increased military spending, throwing Star Wars on the table. Calling out the leaders of the Soviet union in public with blunt in your face comments.  That's a cliffs note version of some of his strong points. He definitely had some issues, but on his rhetoric, and actions regarding the Soviet Union, he led the charge to bury them.

You're mistaking being president when these things happened for being the mastermind behind those things. He was the face (I did say communicating was his strength), but he was never the brains. That goes for the good things and the bad... except the grifting. Adjusting for inflation, when it comes to grifting, he may have had Trump beat

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Reagan meddled in the Iran hostage release process to the point where it happened on the day of his inauguration.  Anyone who thinks he was some kind of statesman is sorely misinformed.

He also traded arms for hostages (not the embassy hostages) which resulted in more hostages being taken so Iran could get more arms.

[Nivek 16945]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, full disclosure -- as to the bolded, I sure as fuck have.  Without shame or apology.  It's long been a flaw of mine -- I think that murderous fascists should die.  I want every Russian soldier who raped a woman, shot a civilian in the back of the head, etc., to die, preferably in pain.  And the same for all Russian soldiers who supported him in doing so.  I'll just have to live with that personal flaw, I guess.

How do you feel about cops? /ducks and covers.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, tchookem said:

17 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And you're underestimating him.  He said communism is bad, and did something about it thru increased military spending, throwing Star Wars on the table. Calling out the leaders of the Soviet union in public with blunt in your face comments.  That's a cliffs note version of some of his strong points. He definitely had some issues, but on his rhetoric, and actions regarding the Soviet Union, he led the charge to bury them.

You're mistaking being president when these things happened for being the mastermind behind those things. He was the face (I did say communicating was his strength), but he was never the brains. That goes for the good things and the bad... except the grifting. Adjusting for inflation, when it comes to grifting, he may have had Trump beat

No, those were his acts, his words, and Star Wars was his shiny toy.  He's the one who told, Gorbachov to tear down the wall.  Not sure what you're trying to say. Reagan had a vision and it was anti communist and he did everything he could do to annoy, expose, and defeat them.

The secret to a good CEO is to surround yourself with people who carry out your plans. You don't have to be the smartest, you have to be smart enough to know to delegate. Mr. Carter one of the smartest presidents was a micromanager, which you can't be as a president.  I voted for Mr. Carter in my first presidential election.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

It was funny because everyone knew he was a dimwit.

 

[F250 28783]

17 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I don’t care if she could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch. She was an idiot and “Just say no” was one of the dumbest campaigns ever. 

Nothing will ever top "be best."

 

[Woland 733]

He did ?  Which event was that ?

After the KAL downing, the Soviets were convinced that Reagan was going to order a first strike. Soviet defenses incorrectly registered incoming missiles. If not for a low-level Soviet soldier questioning the data, the Soviet Union would have launched. The event spooked both sides and Reagan softened his rhetoric. The details were revealed when the Soviet archives were opened after 1991.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

Just now, F250 said:

Nothing will ever top "be best."

And plagiarizing Michelle Obama. And pretending to speak out against bullying while being married to an unrestrained bully. And the “I Really Don’t Care, Do U?” coat she wore when going to review migrant children separated from their families at the border.

 

[MirrOlure 14790]

So, I read we are Double Secret Probation Double Sanctioning Russia for real now that they killed people. I’m certain they’ll give up soon!

[956 Worldwide 34715]

7 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

I think this was for my other post? About trashing houses?

Was referring to the temptation of killing every Russian without regard to notions of decent…..Sorry for any confusion. There’s some video floating around of potential POW execution by Ukrainians and while anyone can understand the anger, Ukrainian leaders and officers have to make sure it doesn’t happen and respond when it inevitably will in a war of aggression and occupation. 

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

2 hours ago, MirrOlure said:

So, I read we are Double Secret Probation Double Sanctioning Russia for real now that they killed people. I’m certain they’ll give up soon!

What’s the threshold before we unleash our Navy to sink every Russian ship in the Black Sea? What about their subs? Could we quietly take them out without anyone ever knowing about it? What if you’re a moron like Donald Trump and think putting Chinese logos on American jets and using them to fight in Ukraine wound actually fool the Russians?

You sound like you’re critical of America’s response so far. What would you suggest we do that we aren’t already doing?

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

14 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, full disclosure -- as to the bolded, I sure as fuck have.  Without shame or apology.  It's long been a flaw of mine -- I think that murderous fascists should die.  I want every Russian soldier who raped a woman, shot a civilian in the back of the head, etc., to die, preferably in pain.  And the same for all Russian soldiers who supported him in doing so.  I'll just have to live with that personal flaw, I guess.

No that is not what you have been saying. You have been cheering on the death of every Russian conscript, war criminal or not, and you advocated the re-detonation of Chernobyl as a defensive measure. And wished you'd invested in Raytheon and Lockheed Martin at an opportune time to cash in on this war. 

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Also, to quote a Stephen King character, or the man himself:

Done bun can't be undone.

Sure, we've fucked up foreign policy w/r/to Russia and all over the place.  And so has everyone else.  

But we can't change that now.  And bemoaning that is not a lot of help in dealing with the "facts on the ground" right now.

Is it worthy of study and reflection in an academic sense, and beyond?  Absolutely.  But it probably doesn't bear belaboring in the immediate present, at least for those with decisions to make.

Probably the best thing to do in the immediate present would be to start another thread for those inclined to hash it over.

I tried. Immamac nuked it. 

8 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And you're underestimating him.  He said communism is bad, and did something about it thru increased military spending, throwing Star Wars on the table. Calling out the leaders of the Soviet union in public with blunt in your face comments.  That's a cliffs note version of some of his strong points. He definitely had some issues, but on his rhetoric, and actions regarding the Soviet Union, he led the charge to bury them.

He destroyed America in the process but who cares. 

8 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I don’t care if she could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch. She was an idiot and “Just say no” was one of the dumbest campaigns ever. 

Actually, she could. Peter Lawford said she was well known for giving the best head in Hollywood before she married Ronnie. No wonder he was grinning all the time. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by MaybeACoordinator

[Thatguy 8750]

22 hours ago, Captainant said:

I think it's moreso a warning to stop carrying Putin's water and actually fucking acknowledge that Russia alone is responsible for this aggression. That and those two posters are derailing the thread constantly. 

It's the Ukraine War thread, not class time for useful idiots

 

21 hours ago, SKJ said:

Or they could just start a different thread showing The Competitive Theories of  Everything through A History Professor's Means of Explanation of the World Through Minutiae and Weak Links.

 

 

18 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

That's not what is happening here.

I prefer "A Dick A-Day"

Regardless of their difference of opinion, these are our people not some Russian bots. They have been who they are on here for years. We never really muzzled our village idiots and we shouldn't now. I took the hill for Charlie Strong for a full year, mostly in protest of what I knew Tom Herman was, but I sure as shit planted my flag there like it was Iwo Jima. We all have our moments. We grow and move on. That's what makes this board great. There are people here that were in full on dick swinging, coke snorting, single dude benders for years some time back, who are no well adjusted parents. When I was a kid I thought Reagan was a good President, not knowing what he was doing to my people, or even what dog whistling was.

[DigglerontheHoof 21202]

16 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, full disclosure -- as to the bolded, I sure as fuck have.  Without shame or apology.  It's long been a flaw of mine -- I think that murderous fascists should die.  I want every Russian soldier who raped a woman, shot a civilian in the back of the head, etc., to die, preferably in pain.  And the same for all Russian soldiers who supported him in doing so.  I'll just have to live with that personal flaw, I guess.

[Captainant 27680]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

Regardless of their difference of opinion, these are our people not some Russian bots. They have been who they are on here for years. We never really muzzled our village idiots and we shouldn't now. I took the hill for Charlie Strong for a full year, mostly in protest of what I knew Tom Herman was, but I sure as shit planted my flag there like it was Iwo Jima. We all have our moments. We grow and move on. That's what makes this board great. There are people here that were in full on dick swinging, coke snorting, single dude benders for years some time back, who are no well adjusted parents. When I was a kid I thought Reagan was a good President, not knowing what he was doing to my people, or even what dog whistling was.

As mentioned earlier, this isn't a difference in opinion. It's a difference in reality, and when pressed those posters fall back on whataboutism, rhetoric, and implication to avoid confronting their own lack of factual basis. These people are deep down the propoganda rabbit hole to the point of believing that Ukraine and the US are the aggressors and have culpability for the war. Or at least they've implied as much. 

Part of growing and moving on is addressing your deficiencies, not dragging everyone else down to your level. 

[Guest Lobo]

Another interesting policy dive into all this on Friday: 

https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_ZhkTFHv2S2eLRd-JEtmPRw

Keep in mind the Truman Center is centre-left, but its foreign policy/defense desk is based on Truman's neo-con/hawkish tendencies even though he's apparently been dead for some time.  Still, check it out over your lunch break tomorrow.  They bring absolutely top-flight experts to the panels.  

[Brisketexan 105156]

4 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

No that is not what you have been saying. You have been cheering on the death of every Russian conscript, war criminal or not, and you advocated the re-detonation of Chernobyl as a defensive measure. And wished you'd invested in Raytheon and Lockheed Martin at an opportune time to cash in on this war. 

1 - first point, on cheering every Russian military death: absolutely, no question, 100%, no shame, no apologies.  Every person wearing a Russian military uniform is part and parcel of a war of pointless destruction, rape, crime, and conquest.  There are only two honorable choices for any person wearing that uniform: desertion, or death.  I would have felt the same way about anyone wearing the uniform of the Wermacht in 1944.  It is an army of depravity and evil, performing a depraved and evil purpose, regularly using depraved and evil method.  If Ukraine was somehow able to slaughter each and every of the 150k Russian troops in the area, I would cheer it from the highest mountain.  That's war.  That's the way it goes.  Fuck around, find out.

2 - on detonating Chernobyl as a defensive measure....turns out I was wrong, Ukraine didn't need to resort to such a desperate measure, they had a fine defense ready to go.  But in an existential fight.....yeah, if I was in those shoes, I'd do whatever it took to survive.  Again, fuck around with me.....and find out.  

3 - on the Raytheon and Lockheed stock, I said that the same way I have repeatedly lamented not getting in on fleecing the MAGAs.  There's always money to be made in chaos.  But no, I have never invested in defense stocks or anything like that.  Just like I've never fleeced a MAGA.  I could....and it would be perfectly legal.  And shit, when it comes to the MAGAs, I may even have a moral obligation to do so, because every dollar I take from them is one they can't contribute to a treasonous movement.  But come on, you damned well know what I was getting at.

 

It's okay to accept the fact that there is a  criminal nationalist movement that is bad, and is doing bad shit, and stopping that movement/doing severe damage to it is a good thing.  It doesn't mean you're a warmonger, or that you prefer violence to peace.  It just means that when violence comes.....you play the cards that are there to be played in such situations.

I get in arguments all the time.  I haven't punched anyone in the face in 30+ years.  I am not a violent guy.  But if you walk up to me and punch me in the face today, I'm going to pop you in the face to try to break your nose, put a kick to your nuts, and then use my knee to bring up and break the shit out of your nose as you double over.  And then I might do more, until it is quite clear that you are incapacitated and won't be doing me any more harm.  Fuck around.  Find out.  Violence has its place.  Don't start fights.  But once they start....don't stop until the fight is finished.

[Brisketexan 105156]

36 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Another interesting policy dive into all this on Friday: 

https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_ZhkTFHv2S2eLRd-JEtmPRw

Keep in mind the Truman Center is centre-left, but its foreign policy/defense desk is based on Truman's neo-con/hawkish tendencies even though he's apparently been dead for some time.  Still, check it out over your lunch break tomorrow.  They bring absolutely top-flight experts to the panels.  

Truman?