Ukraine War

[Guest Lobo]

No, the Jim Carrey movie.  Dammit man, I told you to read a fucking book! 

(I sent you an email earlier this morning, need a reply stat)

[Hagbard Celine 10,756]

On 4/5/2022 at 10:42 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

starwars

CONCLUSION:  we should have built it anyway

 

['stache 21,770]

I’m struggling to follow this thread, but it seems to me that the same people who called those criticizing American foreign policy in real time since WWII unpatriotic and unAmerican are now the ones saying “ we should consider Russia today in the critical context of poor US foreign policy since WWII.” It sounds like an excuse to be against the current president who happens to be of the other political party. And at a time that we’re actually exercising restraint after decades of Team America fuck ‘em all up diplomacy. Disingenuous and hypocrisy are the terms that come to mind, and their words today are illegitimate and hollow as a result.

[Tuco 5,076]

Wishing death for the soldiers of an enemy army is not a controversial opinion. Seriously, wtf?

[Huckleberry 32,699]

Just now, Tuco said:

Wishing death for the soldiers of an enemy army is not a controversial opinion. Seriously, wtf?

You have to put yourself in his shoes, you know, where they aren't the enemy. 

[Guest Lobo]

"We're having a hard time identifying the enemy.  So we walk up to folks and ask them, 'Are you the enemy?'  And if they say 'yes', then we shoot them."  /adrian

[bangkok 89]

cheers to all of you with a peace-oriented viewpoint.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,841]

why they were ever on it is a head scratcher

 

[Neonmoon 38,127]

 

24 voted no

Basically just a list of the bad guys in the world

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Neonmoon

[InkaUtexas 25,507]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

 

24 voted no

Basically just a list of the bad guys in the world

 

 

Cut any and all aid to everyone of them. 

[Brisketexan 104,596]

1 hour ago, bangkok said:

cheers to all of you with a peace-oriented viewpoint.

I pos-repped this, and I meant it when I did so.

I am glad that we have voices that argue -- with passion, sometimes rightminded, sometimes wrong-headed -- for peace.  Because what's happening now is not a "win" for anyone.  Every outcome possible, once Russia invaded, was just an option from a menu of hideous, awful outcomes.  And we are rooting for the best hideous outcome.  No good choices.  Only varying degrees of bad ones.

Which is why shit like this should be avoided, and when it happens......met with overwhelming force and fury to deter it, for at least some period of time.  Because allowing it  to happen with no consequence is unacceptable.

I saw some images of Ukrainian families returning to their homes.  Their shattered, destroyed homes.  Some with dead family members buried in the yard.  There's a generation of Ukrainian kids who will have the scars of this war burned into their brains for the rest of their days.  The raw wounds of today will turn to scars.  Someday, they'll have peace.  But not today.  And never without the memory of these moments.

Several years ago, my daughter was friends with some german schoolgirls who came here on a music tour -- they sang with local groups, learned some American songs, etc.  They put on a performance at Threadgills that we attended.  Their family members and friends who had come with them were in the audience as well.  They sang some American songs (including some country songs) that were a blast, and sometimes funny as hell.  Then they sang a song we'd never heard, by a German group called Silbermond -- "Weiße Fahnen" (White flag).  I'll paste the lyrics in a box below, but in summary, it's a song about a child of war.  He knows of destruction, he knows of death, but he knows little else of life, and little else of peace.  Even understanding very little German, it's a beautiful song.  But there's a moment near the end, after the chorus, when the song just rolls into a "whoah, oh, oh, whoah oh, oh" chorus.  And at that moment, all the Germans in the crowd began to sing along, and they pulled out handkerchiefs, napkins, what have you, and waved them in time with the music.  It was powerful, to say the least.

Those girls are of fighting age now.  Their Ukrainian counterparts are fighting and dying for their home, their families, right now.   The children of Ukraine are living this song right now.....at least the first verses of it.  They haven't made it to the last verse yet.  Many of them won't live that long. 

A couple of weeks ago, Silbermond performed Weiße Fahnen at the Sound of Peace concert in Berlin, in front of the Brandenburg gate.  Some of that concert was hopelessly naive -- having a person with a russian flag hug someone with a ukrainian flag, for example -- but it was an exercise in aspiration and hope.  And I am glad that those voices are out there.  I am glad that there are voices who will go over the edge to cry out for peace.  Because the cost of war is unbearable.  It always has been.

Here's the performance:

 

Translated lyrics:

Spoiler

It`s a cold day
in his hot heart
and a loud fire
lights the sky again

And he`s running for his life
his whole young life
never started the war
of his fathers

And everytime he falls asleep
he dreams himself far away
dreams of the silence
dreams himself away
A gentle wind blows
and the sky is wide
This war is over
the soldiers are going home
And white flags fly
and everybody is free, free, free
Tonight my friend
I dreamt of peace

And he wakes up
in the rain of fire
the night`s paralyzed
no stars to see

Red sand runs
through his little hands
he knows how lives end
but not how they start

And everytime he falls asleep
he dreams himself far away
dreams of the silence
dreams himself away
a gentle wind blows
and the sky is wide
This war is over
the soldiers are going home
And white flags fly
and everybody is free, free, free
Tonight my friend
I dreamt of peace

There are so many buried dreams
but he`s never stopped
dare dreaming
Now he`s far away
with healed wounds
His small hands
have found peace

 

So, as I wish for Ukrainian victory, and everything it takes to achieve it, I too wish for eventual peace.  Not only are they not mutually exclusive, one must come before the other.  In any case, I hope that the dreams of peace do eventually come true.  I just know that hell on earth will continue before they do.

And everytime he falls asleep
he dreams himself far away
dreams of the silence
dreams himself away
A gentle wind blows
and the sky is wide
This war is over
the soldiers are going home
And white flags fly
and everybody is free, free, free
Tonight my friend
I dreamt of peace

[jimmyjazz 45,554]

Wow.  That's a gorgeous song.  Thank you.

[Macanudo 12,926]

And the location.....   Smack dab in front of the Brandenburg Gate.

Powerful.

[Hagbard Celine 10,756]

On 4/6/2022 at 8:28 AM, Lobo said:

Go ahead, pick out any country in Eastern Europe and I'll lift it up, clean over my head!  

 

Don't where to put this, but register for this if you're in Austin.  Clements Center talk regarding Russia next week: 

https://www.clementscenter.org/events/item/2391-threat-of-the-first-throne-russia-s-challenge-to-european-security-and-political-order

would

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, she's smart, beautiful, and anti-Putin.  Trump would fuck her if he could figure out how they were related. 

[Brisketexan 104,596]

Yeah, she's smart, beautiful, and anti-Putin.  Trump would fuck her if he could figure out how they were related. 

Damn, I light like to go to that. Pissed I had to miss todays talk.

[staboner 4,957]

5 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

 

24 voted no

Basically just a list of the bad guys in the world

 

 

<snacks_pleasedon'tbeblack> please don't be cyprus <snacks_pleasedon'tbeblack>

[F250 28,682]

11 hours ago, Lobo said:

(I sent you an email earlier this morning, need a reply stat)

Dick pics?

 

[Guest Lobo]

No, you don't open with that.  I'm not a savage.  We build to that

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Oof.

[956 Worldwide 34,429]

Today Russia launched a tactical ballistic missile strike on a railway station in east Ukraine. The station and platforms were full of people fleeing Donbas in advance of an expected offensive. At least 30 people died, including many children.

Early Russian propaganda points the finger at Ukraine, saying they attacked the station. I expect that at some point we will hear that it was a dual use facility and that the Ukrainians were using human shields.

The Russians wrote “(to avenge) our children” on the rocket booster.

I will repeat— this is not a war over hypothetical NATO expansion.

 

[956 Worldwide 34,429]

I posted on the DT thread— I believe the train station attack was planned to cause maximum loss of civilian life.  I think that Russia wants to terrify people in unoccupied Donbas to flee east to Russia or to the DPR/LPR to exploit that direction of refugee flow.  They want to frame it as people fleeing Ukraine and Russians protecting them.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

This pic represents what I would love to see for Ukraine:

Standing tall, robust, unmolested by outsiders from either side. The idea that one side or the other can "win" is illusory. Peace may hold for a few years but then trouble will start from within or without and potentially from either side. The idea that everyone to the rear of Ukraine is going to be friendies with them forever is new and untested. For the last time, let's work toward a ceasefire, get to the peace table, and find a way for Ukraine to operate under its own power and not ours or theirs, but with the protection of ours. 

 If your first response to this is "But Putin won't allow that," then okay, then the use of force is necessary. But we've not yet given him a chance to keep to his word. Instead he's kept to his pattern of wrecking countries on his borders that get uppity with Russia in the NATO way, like Georgia. Who we encouraged and then abandoned. Let's get him to the peace table, talk him into a withdrawal, and see what happens after that. 

At best, the approach we are on now will lead to another Russian Revolution. The last one had results we did not plan for and were rather regrettable. At worst, the approach we are on now leads to nuclear war. 

In the meantime....

We need to quit thinking of Ukraine it what we would like to see right now and what's best for them in the long run. And what's best for them in the long run is non alignment with protection.

[Captainant 27,447]

Petition to change MAC's handle to MaybeAChamberlain, he's slinging the exact same tripe as Neville did while the world watched the last fascistic invasion in Europe

[956 Worldwide 34,429]

21 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

This pic represents what I would love to see for Ukraine:

Standing tall, robust, unmolested by outsiders from either side. The idea that one side or the other can "win" is illusory. Peace may hold for a few years but then trouble will start from within or without and potentially from either side. The idea that everyone to the rear of Ukraine is going to be friendies with them forever is new and untested. For the last time, let's work toward a ceasefire, get to the peace table, and find a way for Ukraine to operate under its own power and not ours or theirs, but with the protection of ours. 

 If your first response to this is "But Putin won't allow that," then okay, then the use of force is necessary. But we've not yet given him a chance to keep to his word. Instead he's kept to his pattern of wrecking countries on his borders that get uppity with Russia in the NATO way, like Georgia. Who we encouraged and then abandoned. Let's get him to the peace table, talk him into a withdrawal, and see what happens after that. 

At best, the approach we are on now will lead to another Russian Revolution. The last one had results we did not plan for and were rather regrettable. At worst, the approach we are on now leads to nuclear war. 

In the meantime....

We need to quit thinking of Ukraine it what we would like to see right now and what's best for them in the long run. And what's best for them in the long run is non alignment with protection.

Bolded is word salad. Please explain what this means precisely and how it is achievable in the context of ongoing war crimes. 

[hookemATL 11,610]

Quote

But we've not yet given him a chance to keep to his word. 

Fucking lulz. Seriously, thank you for starting off my Friday with a goddamned gut buster. 
 

[956 Worldwide 34,429]

Please also place the following actions in the context of neutrality. What is/is not a violation of the neutrality you propose:

- Poisoning candidates for office

- Falsifying election results to your benefit

- Building infrastructure for an artificial separatist movement and threatening to activate it in response to internal political developments

- Threatening war over internal political developments

- Cyber attacks

- Corrupting and blackmailing elected and appointed high-ranking officials to influence internal political developments

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

Petition to change MAC's handle to MaybeAChamberlain, he's slinging the exact same tripe as Neville did while the world watched the last fascistic invasion in Europe

I can understand (but don't agree with) Chamberlains attempt at mollification, and peace.  (SEE:  WWI).

Edited April 8, 2022 by Onboard 2.0

[Brisketexan 104,596]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

And what's best for them in the long run is non alignment with protection.

Let me put that in terms that most people will understand -- "What's best for them in the long term is peace and love secured by a phalanx of unicorns and other faerie creatures."

What you typed are just words.  Fantasy-based words.  I mean, what's best for everyone is a Russia that focuses on its own self-determination, internal economic development under the Rule of Law, and good-faith engagement with its neighbors for mutual economic benefit.  What I just typed is 100% true.....and like what you typed, 100% fantasy.

You don't get to say "what" without also posing a viable "how."  How do Russia and Ukraine get to the place you described? Here's the hard, painful truth: in the current circumstances, they do not get there.  No amount of talking, hoping, wishcasting, etc., will change that.  Nothing like that will happen until BOTH sides are ready for it to happen.  And Russia isn't anywhere close to ready.  In its mind, it still has a lot of killing and conquering to do.  So, until someone disabuses Russia of such notions -- which can be done only by killing, stopping, and humiliating Russia militarily -- everything you typed is fantastical unicorn fart bullshit.

[wildcat09 29,237]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

This pic represents what I would love to see for Ukraine:

 

Quote

We need to quit thinking of Ukraine it what we would like to see right now

Don't think I even need to comment on this contradiction.

Quote

If your first response to this is "But Putin won't allow that," then okay, then the use of force is necessary. But we've not yet given him a chance to keep to his word.

What the fuck are you talking about? What fucking word? You want to know what not fighting back gets Ukrainians right now? Their hands tied behind their backs and a bullet to the back of the head. From a man who repeatedly lied about his intentions and invaded a neighbor because he doesn't like that they speak a different language. What fucking word do you think we haven't given him an opportunity to keep? Why do you think Ukrainians should trust him to keep to any promises he makes if they surrender?

The fact that you still can't see how intellectually incoherent and morally abhorrent your perspective on this is after what we've learned this week about Bucha means there is something deeply wrong with you.

[sidis 9,743]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

This pic represents what I would love to see for Ukraine:

Standing tall, robust, unmolested by outsiders from either side. The idea that one side or the other can "win" is illusory. Peace may hold for a few years but then trouble will start from within or without and potentially from either side. The idea that everyone to the rear of Ukraine is going to be friendies with them forever is new and untested. For the last time, let's work toward a ceasefire, get to the peace table, and find a way for Ukraine to operate under its own power and not ours or theirs, but with the protection of ours. 

 If your first response to this is "But Putin won't allow that," then okay, then the use of force is necessary. But we've not yet given him a chance to keep to his word. Instead he's kept to his pattern of wrecking countries on his borders that get uppity with Russia in the NATO way, like Georgia. Who we encouraged and then abandoned. Let's get him to the peace table, talk him into a withdrawal, and see what happens after that. 

At best, the approach we are on now will lead to another Russian Revolution. The last one had results we did not plan for and were rather regrettable. At worst, the approach we are on now leads to nuclear war. 

In the meantime....

We need to quit thinking of Ukraine it what we would like to see right now and what's best for them in the long run. And what's best for them in the long run is non alignment with protection.

Seriously dude…what is your deal? You have too long a posting history to just be some random astroturfing dipshit…what is your connection to all this? Because you sound insane in a way that could only be attributed to some sort of personal connection to all this. Is your income/business in some way degraded due to sanctions? Are you one of Putin’s kids? Familial ties to russia or Belarus? 

[jimmyjazz 45,554]

Poor Vladimir Putin.  Never got the chance to keep his word.

[Brisketexan 104,596]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Poor Vladimir Putin.  Never got the chance to keep his word.

This.

There's some next-level "WTF" with this.  You mean the word like months upon months of swearing up and down that he had no intention of invading Ukraine?  Or how about the current lies that Russian atrocities are actually Ukrainian forces killing their own people?  

I am in the business of dealing with fights involving people who lie.  When you're up against someone who lies as habitually as Putin, let me tell you how often you trust him: never.  Not once.  Not ever.  Not unless and until you have a signed document and a court order enforcing same.  And even then...you don't trust HIM.  You trust the court to enforce things.

Putin will not make any agreement - at least not one he will keep for any length of time - until he is forced to.  This is why we have fistfights, lawsuits, and wars.  Some people literally will NOT do the reasonable thing unless and until they are forced to.  Putin has demonstrated amply that he is such a person.  Any discussion that does not start with "so, understanding that Putin will not agree to anything that he is not forced to agree to" is pure fantasy.

['stache 21,770]

12 minutes ago, sidis said:

Seriously dude…what is your deal? You have too long a posting history to just be some random astroturfing dipshit…what is your connection to all this? Because you sound insane in a way that could only be attributed to some sort of personal connection to all this. Is your income/business in some way degraded due to sanctions? Are you one of Putin’s kids? Familial ties to russia or Belarus? 

He’s a republican. Just walking the new party line.

[Thatguy 8,495]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

This pic represents what I would love to see for Ukraine:

Standing tall, robust, unmolested by outsiders from either side. The idea that one side or the other can "win" is illusory. Peace may hold for a few years but then trouble will start from within or without and potentially from either side. The idea that everyone to the rear of Ukraine is going to be friendies with them forever is new and untested. For the last time, let's work toward a ceasefire, get to the peace table, and find a way for Ukraine to operate under its own power and not ours or theirs, but with the protection of ours. 

 If your first response to this is "But Putin won't allow that," then okay, then the use of force is necessary. But we've not yet given him a chance to keep to his word. Instead he's kept to his pattern of wrecking countries on his borders that get uppity with Russia in the NATO way, like Georgia. Who we encouraged and then abandoned. Let's get him to the peace table, talk him into a withdrawal, and see what happens after that. 

At best, the approach we are on now will lead to another Russian Revolution. The last one had results we did not plan for and were rather regrettable. At worst, the approach we are on now leads to nuclear war. 

In the meantime....

We need to quit thinking of Ukraine it what we would like to see right now and what's best for them in the long run. And what's best for them in the long run is non alignment with protection.

 

  Think about how animals behave and you get your answer on what Russia is. 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

5 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

 

  Think about how animals behave and you get your answer on what Russia is. 

A surly bear ?

[Genco 3,038]

3 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

This pic represents what I would love to see for Ukraine:

Standing tall, robust, unmolested by outsiders from either side. The idea that one side or the other can "win" is illusory. Peace may hold for a few years but then trouble will start from within or without and potentially from either side. The idea that everyone to the rear of Ukraine is going to be friendies with them forever is new and untested. For the last time, let's work toward a ceasefire, get to the peace table, and find a way for Ukraine to operate under its own power and not ours or theirs, but with the protection of ours. 

 If your first response to this is "But Putin won't allow that," then okay, then the use of force is necessary. But we've not yet given him a chance to keep to his word. Instead he's kept to his pattern of wrecking countries on his borders that get uppity with Russia in the NATO way, like Georgia. Who we encouraged and then abandoned. Let's get him to the peace table, talk him into a withdrawal, and see what happens after that. 

At best, the approach we are on now will lead to another Russian Revolution. The last one had results we did not plan for and were rather regrettable. At worst, the approach we are on now leads to nuclear war. 

In the meantime....

We need to quit thinking of Ukraine it what we would like to see right now and what's best for them in the long run. And what's best for them in the long run is non alignment with protection.

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,343]

Fuck Putin.

 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

26 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.

There's some next-level "WTF" with this.  You mean the word like months upon months of swearing up and down that he had no intention of invading Ukraine?  Or how about the current lies that Russian atrocities are actually Ukrainian forces killing their own people?  

I am in the business of dealing with fights involving people who lie.  When you're up against someone who lies as habitually as Putin, let me tell you how often you trust him: never.  Not once.  Not ever.  Not unless and until you have a signed document and a court order enforcing same.  And even then...you don't trust HIM.  You trust the court to enforce things.

Putin will not make any agreement - at least not one he will keep for any length of time - until he is forced to.  This is why we have fistfights, lawsuits, and wars.  Some people literally will NOT do the reasonable thing unless and until they are forced to.  Putin has demonstrated amply that he is such a person.  Any discussion that does not start with "so, understanding that Putin will not agree to anything that he is not forced to agree to" is pure fantasy.

Sub sonic bullet, meet Putins brain pan

Lord, hear our prayer

Well timed missile meet Putin in his dacha

Lord, hear our prayer

Opportunistic garrote around Putins neck

Lord, hear our prayer

Die, you bastard die

Lord, hear our prayer

Aaaaaaaaaaaaameeeeeeeeeeeennnnnn.....

[Thatguy 8,495]

8 minutes ago, Genco said:

 

[Hornius Emeritus 12,419]

29 minutes ago, &#x27;stache said:

He’s a republican. Just walking the new party line.

LOL. He's most DEFINITELY not a Republican. I'd be very surprised if he's ever voted for a Republican in his life.

[Hornius Emeritus 12,419]

2 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Fuck Putin.

 

 

So very sad.

Putin must pay.

[Neonmoon 38,127]

3 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

This pic represents what I would love to see for Ukraine:

Standing tall, robust, unmolested by outsiders from either side. The idea that one side or the other can "win" is illusory. Peace may hold for a few years but then trouble will start from within or without and potentially from either side. The idea that everyone to the rear of Ukraine is going to be friendies with them forever is new and untested. For the last time, let's work toward a ceasefire, get to the peace table, and find a way for Ukraine to operate under its own power and not ours or theirs, but with the protection of ours. 

 If your first response to this is "But Putin won't allow that," then okay, then the use of force is necessary. But we've not yet given him a chance to keep to his word. Instead he's kept to his pattern of wrecking countries on his borders that get uppity with Russia in the NATO way, like Georgia. Who we encouraged and then abandoned. Let's get him to the peace table, talk him into a withdrawal, and see what happens after that. 

At best, the approach we are on now will lead to another Russian Revolution. The last one had results we did not plan for and were rather regrettable. At worst, the approach we are on now leads to nuclear war. 

In the meantime....

We need to quit thinking of Ukraine it what we would like to see right now and what's best for them in the long run. And what's best for them in the long run is non alignment with protection.

 

[Brisketexan 104,596]

39 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

LOL. He's most DEFINITELY not a Republican. I'd be very surprised if he's ever voted for a Republican in his life.

Correct.  Not a Republican at all -- he's a genuine peacenik.  And I have no problem with his hopes and goals, in the abstract.  Just like I have no problem with my goal to have a torrid affair with Sela Ward with my wife's blessing and permission, in the abstract.

It's the execution that's a bitch.  It may even make the goal impossible.  And of course, I'm talking about the Ukraine peace thing, not the Brisket and Sela Ward thing, which actually has a better chance of happening.

[Gatorubet 30,088]

4 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

 If your first response to this is "But Putin won't allow that," then okay, then the use of force is necessary. But we've not yet given him a chance to keep to his word. 

[956 Worldwide 34,429]

It is already clear beyond a reasonable doubt that Russia intends to engage in mass killings in areas it liberates or occupies.  It’s also completely clear that at this stage, Putin has territorial ambitions. 
 

@MaybeACoordinator and others advocating for extensive concessions by Ukraine for the sake of peace need to say the exact number of civilian executions Ukraine should settle for. 

[RomaVicta 29,781]

Please leave Vlad alone!

[WhatTheBuck 28,710]

3 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Fuck Putin.

This is from 2016. I posted it on the old site when it came out but I think it’s fitting to post it again. King Crimson doesn’t release many official videos. Robert Fripp doesn’t even like to be photographed. But he played guitar on the David Bowie song and here they are covering it. It commemorates Putin’s worst day. Hopefully the Russian people or some general will soon make it his second worst day.

“‘King Crimson performed Heroes at the Admiralspalast in Berlin as a celebration, a remembrancing and an homage. The concert was thirty nine years and one month after the original sessions at the Hansa Tonstudio overlooking the Berlin Wall. This is released in the Fortieth Anniversary year.’ - Robert Fripp.”

 

[Nivek 16,857]

21 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I pos-repped this, and I meant it when I did so.

I am glad that we have voices that argue -- with passion, sometimes rightminded, sometimes wrong-headed -- for peace.  Because what's happening now is not a "win" for anyone.  Every outcome possible, once Russia invaded, was just an option from a menu of hideous, awful outcomes.  And we are rooting for the best hideous outcome.  No good choices.  Only varying degrees of bad ones.

Which is why shit like this should be avoided, and when it happens......met with overwhelming force and fury to deter it, for at least some period of time.  Because allowing it  to happen with no consequence is unacceptable.

I saw some images of Ukrainian families returning to their homes.  Their shattered, destroyed homes.  Some with dead family members buried in the yard.  There's a generation of Ukrainian kids who will have the scars of this war burned into their brains for the rest of their days.  The raw wounds of today will turn to scars.  Someday, they'll have peace.  But not today.  And never without the memory of these moments.

Several years ago, my daughter was friends with some german schoolgirls who came here on a music tour -- they sang with local groups, learned some American songs, etc.  They put on a performance at Threadgills that we attended.  Their family members and friends who had come with them were in the audience as well.  They sang some American songs (including some country songs) that were a blast, and sometimes funny as hell.  Then they sang a song we'd never heard, by a German group called Silbermond -- "Weiße Fahnen" (White flag).  I'll paste the lyrics in a box below, but in summary, it's a song about a child of war.  He knows of destruction, he knows of death, but he knows little else of life, and little else of peace.  Even understanding very little German, it's a beautiful song.  But there's a moment near the end, after the chorus, when the song just rolls into a "whoah, oh, oh, whoah oh, oh" chorus.  And at that moment, all the Germans in the crowd began to sing along, and they pulled out handkerchiefs, napkins, what have you, and waved them in time with the music.  It was powerful, to say the least.

Those girls are of fighting age now.  Their Ukrainian counterparts are fighting and dying for their home, their families, right now.   The children of Ukraine are living this song right now.....at least the first verses of it.  They haven't made it to the last verse yet.  Many of them won't live that long. 

A couple of weeks ago, Silbermond performed Weiße Fahnen at the Sound of Peace concert in Berlin, in front of the Brandenburg gate.  Some of that concert was hopelessly naive -- having a person with a russian flag hug someone with a ukrainian flag, for example -- but it was an exercise in aspiration and hope.  And I am glad that those voices are out there.  I am glad that there are voices who will go over the edge to cry out for peace.  Because the cost of war is unbearable.  It always has been.

Here's the performance:

 

Translated lyrics:

  Reveal hidden contents

It`s a cold day
in his hot heart
and a loud fire
lights the sky again

And he`s running for his life
his whole young life
never started the war
of his fathers

And everytime he falls asleep
he dreams himself far away
dreams of the silence
dreams himself away
A gentle wind blows
and the sky is wide
This war is over
the soldiers are going home
And white flags fly
and everybody is free, free, free
Tonight my friend
I dreamt of peace

And he wakes up
in the rain of fire
the night`s paralyzed
no stars to see

Red sand runs
through his little hands
he knows how lives end
but not how they start

And everytime he falls asleep
he dreams himself far away
dreams of the silence
dreams himself away
a gentle wind blows
and the sky is wide
This war is over
the soldiers are going home
And white flags fly
and everybody is free, free, free
Tonight my friend
I dreamt of peace

There are so many buried dreams
but he`s never stopped
dare dreaming
Now he`s far away
with healed wounds
His small hands
have found peace

 

So, as I wish for Ukrainian victory, and everything it takes to achieve it, I too wish for eventual peace.  Not only are they not mutually exclusive, one must come before the other.  In any case, I hope that the dreams of peace do eventually come true.  I just know that hell on earth will continue before they do.

And everytime he falls asleep
he dreams himself far away
dreams of the silence
dreams himself away
A gentle wind blows
and the sky is wide
This war is over
the soldiers are going home
And white flags fly
and everybody is free, free, free
Tonight my friend
I dreamt of peace

While I was having the expected reaction to the post at first when I scrolled down and played the song and saw the lady, my thought was damn, Brisket sure does seem to have a type.  And I for one appreciate it.  

But worse, this will war will impact the children, their children, and their grandchildren.  Trauma changes our DNA (epigenetically) and that is kind of in keeping with a psychologists Bowen's work. 

[Brisketexan 104,596]

Just now, Nivek said:

when I scrolled down and played the song and saw the lady, my thought was damn, Brisket sure does seem to have a type.  And I for one appreciate it.  

Well, I mean......yeah.  But re this particular post, it was indeed beside the point.

But it's still a point worth making/acknowledging, so I just did.