Ukraine War

[927 E. 41st 1124]

14 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Other posters are disemboweling your attempt to smear the defense of Ukraine by means of footnote (*they're Nazis! Clutch pearls!)

If your pals the Russians invaded the US, I'd welcome every neo-Nazi group in America to join in the fight to expel them. If I were drowning and a neo-Nazi tossed me a line, I'd take it and thank him/her.

I've joined in negging you. You're an incompetent amateur operative, but that's no cause for sympathy. 

Don't choke on the pearl necklace you clutch so righteously.

RomaVicta, once again you prove to be one of the few people on here I'd like to have a coffee with. 

There is no perfection where humans are involved, on either the micro or macro level. Looking for that perfection, especially at the political extremes is immature folly. 

Also, "DON'T FUCK WITH UKRAINE" is that a copyright infringement on "DON"T MESS WITH TEXAS"?

Edited May 1, 2022 by 927 E. 41st

[PsychMike 1553]

As I recall, most surly posters on this thread expressed skepticism of the "Ghost of Kyiv" story while appreciating the legend regardless.

 

Ukraine acknowledges that the ‘Ghost of Kyiv’ is a myth.

Lynsey Addario for The New York Times

He shot down numerous Russian planes, survived enemy attacks and became a symbol of Ukraine’s surprisingly effective air defenses, earning a bold wartime moniker: The Ghost of Kyiv.

He is also, it turns out, a myth.

“The ghost of Kyiv is a superhero-legend, whose character was created by Ukrainians!” Ukraine’s Air Force Command wrote on Facebook on Saturday, dispelling a monthslong rumor — fueled by Ukrainian authorities themselves — that had invigorated the resistance to Russia’s invasion.

The Ukrainian statement came after some news outlets, including the Times of London, identified the Ghost of Kyiv as Major Stepan Tarabalka, an actual 29-year-old who died in an air battle in March. The claim echoed across social media and tabloid publications in Ukraine and the West, seeming to confirm that the story of the heroic fighter was real.

Instead, it has turned out to be one of the more successful pieces of propaganda in an information war that, at times, Ukraine has fought as fiercely as it has on the battlefield.

It was only a day after the beginning of Russia’s invasion that the Ukrainian media started reporting that an unknown pilot of a MIG-29 fighter jet had downed six enemy planes in 30 hours. Memes and illustrations started circulating online with the hashtag #ghostofkyiv, collecting hundreds of millions of views.

Even a former president of Ukraine, Petro O. Poroshenko, tweeted a picture of a pilot who he said was the Ghost of Kyiv and who had “six victories over Russian pilots!”

“With such powerful defenders, Ukraine will definitely win!” Mr. Poroshenko wrote. (The photo, it turned out, was from a 2019 Twitter post by the Ukrainian Defense Ministry.)

The Ukrainian government also joined in. On Feb. 27 it relayed on Twitter the story and the photo, calling the unknown pilot “a nightmare for invading Russian aircrafts.” It posted a video praising the pilot that included a clip from a combat flight simulator.

People call him the Ghost of Kyiv. And rightly so — this UAF ace dominates the skies over our capital and country, and has already become a nightmare for invading Russian aircrafts.

Around the same time, when the Ukrainian Defense Ministry announced on Facebook that dozens of discharged military pilots were returning to the Air Force, it referred to the fascination with the anonymous pilot: “Who knows, maybe one of them is the air avenger on the MIG-29.”

The stories proliferated and overlapped. After reports in early March that the Ghost of Kyiv had been shot down, Ihor Mosiychuk, a former Ukrainian lawmaker, reported that the pilot survived, went back to his base, took off in another jet and downed another enemy plane.

“The ghost is alive!” he wrote on Facebook. The Kyiv Post reported that he had destroyed as many as 49 planes.

Skepticism spread in some quarters. But the legend only grew. Artists produced NFTs, or nonfungible tokens, with the pilot’s image. Blue and gold “Ghost of Kyiv” fliers and illustrations circulated online.

On Friday, several publications identified the pilot as Mr. Tarabalka, an airman who died in battle on Mar. 13 and was posthumously awarded the military honor “Hero of Ukraine.” The Times of London also quoted Ukrainian sources as saying the pilot’s helmet and goggles were expected to go on sale at an auction in London.

The next day, the Air Force Command of Ukraine’s Armed Forces debunked the claims. “Hero of Ukraine Stepan Tarabalka is NOT ‘Ghost of Kyiv’ and he did NOT shoot down 40 planes,” it wrote on Facebook. But they still worked to keep the myth going.

“The #GhostOfKyiv is alive,” the Air Force wrote on Twitter. “It embodies the collective spirit of the highly qualified pilots of the Tactical Aviation Brigade who are successfully defending #Kyiv and the region.”

For many Ukrainians, that was all that mattered.

“He IS a legend,” Lesia Vasylenko, a Ukrainian lawmaker, wrote on Twitter, “He can’t be killed — he is a ghost.”

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

So nobody gonna mention Pelosi was in Kyiv yesterday?

 

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

So nobody gonna mention Pelosi was in Kyiv yesterday?

 

You mean like was already mentioned earlier?

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

8 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

You mean like was already mentioned earlier?

guess I missed it. figured there would be more discussion about it

[jimmyjazz 47203]

If anyone is interested in a reasonably in-depth treatise on the facts regarding far-right influence in Ukraine, including the Azov battalion, read this.  It lays out the numbers, which show that neo-Nazi and other right-wing extremist groups have almost no leverage within the country or its military.  You know, just in case your FOX News family cohort starts arguing otherwise on Mothers Day.

Far right influence in Ukraine

Edited May 2, 2022 by jimmyjazz

[Gil Bang 26240]

Navalny is a "Wire" fan

 

 

 

[F250 29201]

47 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

If anyone is interested in a reasonably in-depth treatise on the facts regarding far-right influence in Ukraine, including the Azov battalion, read this.  It lays out the numbers, which show that neo-Nazi and other right-wing extremist groups have almost no leverage within the country or its military.  You know, just in case your FOX News family cohort starts arguing otherwise on Mothers Day.

Far right influence in Ukraine

Quote

American officials, however, remain wary of the group. For several years, U.S. appropriations bills have specifically prohibited military aid from going to Azov. For example, on March 10, the Senate finalized a spending bill that provides $13.6 billion in new aid for Ukraine but specifically states, “None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to provide arms, training, or other assistance to the Azov Battalion.”

Interesting, the U.S. isn't allowing funds to be used for the Azov Battalion.

 

[Gil Bang 26240]

I really want this fucking guy to die.  Tonight would be good.

 

 

[B00M 6734]

On 5/1/2022 at 10:10 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Breaking: Safe passage for civilians to leave Mariupol under way

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61252785

Imagine how desperate you must be to evacuate with all the civilian murdering Russia has done after promising safe passage. 

[brakeman 28751]

 

[27-25 2085]

2 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I really want this fucking guy to die.  Tonight would be good.

 

 

"It's gotta be all Russia's Fault". Yeah Tucker.  You see, Russia invaded Ukraine.  Twice.  It IS all their fault.

I agree, Tucker needs to DIAF.

[Sawbonz 28222]

Tucker just parroting the party line

 

 

[Zeus 6864]

Just like that

I am forgotten

[Thatguy 9366]

On 4/29/2022 at 8:59 PM, Caponata said:

I'm sightly more than annoyed seeing a Neo-Nazi paramilitary being celebrated in U.S. soil. Grandparents fought them & whatnot. When this war is over you realize they're not magically going to disperse, right? And no criticizing Neo-Nazi paramilitary is not a endorsement of Putin & his fascist regime because I assume that is going to be your retort.

   I think you are a bit confused. So let me remind you that the reason we hate "Nazi" is because of the atrocities of WW2. Outside of that it is just a name. We are in opposition of the action not the name, and currently those same actions are being brought upon Ukraine by a Fascist Dictator named Vladimir Putin. Try to keep that in mind.

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

3 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

   I think you are a bit confused. So let me remind you that the reason we hate "Nazi" is because of the atrocities of WW2. Outside of that it is just a name. We are in opposition of the action not the name, and currently those same actions are being brought upon Ukraine by a Fascist Dictator named Vladimir Putin. Try to keep that in mind.

No, I hate Nazis because they’re fascists and adhere to an ideology that is cruel and unjust. And dangerous. And not dedicated to democratic principles like the proposition that all men are created equal nor that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from this earth. It’s not “just a name.” It means something. Something that can be defined, something bad, something that should be avoided, something we should fight against.

[Thatguy 9366]

43 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

No, I hate Nazis because they’re fascists and adhere to an ideology that is cruel and unjust. And dangerous. And not dedicated to democratic principles like the proposition that all men are created equal nor that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from this earth. It’s not “just a name.” It means something. Something that can be defined, something bad, something that should be avoided, something we should fight against.

  You also are missing the point. How we felt about that name pre 1930's and how we feel about it now is directly related to what was done under its namesake circa WW2. My point is that those kinds of atrocities have been done under many different flags over history, and we should be much more concerned with the actions over the name. I guess as an African American I see things differently. I have learned to tolerate people's deranged views as long as it remains just that, a thought process. Do I like Satan worshippers? No, but more people have committed heinous crimes under the flag of Christianity. The African American community wasn't persecuted by Neo-Nazis, it was persecuted by regular folk who were sitting in pews on Sunday.

  I would love a world where everyone hugged a gay person and the world wasn't one big caste system based on skin color. However, since we cannot have that I will take civility for 600 Alex.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Thatguy

[jimmyjazz 47203]

Read the article I linked up the page.  It addresses @Caponata's gaslighting.  By focusing on "neo-Nazi paramilitary", it falsely implies that the Ukrainian military is largely comprised of neo-Nazis.  The opposite couldn't be more true.  The Azov battalion represents roughly 2% of Ukraine's national guard, and 0.4% of their total military.  That particular battalion has historically helped the Ukrainian cause, so their perspective is tolerated, almost in an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" manner (but not exactly).

[956 Worldwide 35594]

17 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I really want this fucking guy to die.  Tonight would be good.

 

 

Tucker’s Russian counterpart Solovyov is in Mariupol. I vote we send Tucker there too then pass the Ukrainians some of that sweet reconnaissance we’ve been sharing. 
 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by 956 Worldwide

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

So, yeah.

 

Remember, this is a guy who has helped hide pedophiles in the church.  What a piece of work.

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

6 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

So, yeah.

 

Remember, this is a guy who has helped hide pedophiles in the church.  What a piece of work.

What a monumental waste of time that would be.

Sort of like this:

[956 Worldwide 35594]

12 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

So, yeah.

 

Remember, this is a guy who has helped hide pedophiles in the church.  What a piece of work.

Francis has a soft spot for anti-American authoritarians, as any good Latin American quasi-intellectual would. He’s been very kind to Venezuela, Cuba, and especially China as well.  Always hides behind “dialogue” and “for peace, not for either side.”

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

18 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Francis has a soft spot for anti-American authoritarians, as any good Latin American quasi-intellectual would. He’s been very kind to Venezuela, Cuba, and especially China as well.  Always hides behind “dialogue” and “for peace, not for either side.”

And yet he’s still better than the former guy to hold that office. 

[Satchel 6982]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Francis has a soft spot for anti-American authoritarians, as any good Latin American quasi-intellectual would. He’s been very kind to Venezuela, Cuba, and especially China as well.  Always hides behind “dialogue” and “for peace, not for either side.”

It’s his bottom up view of Gospel praxis that gives him a soft spot for poor people under authoritarian rule.

[956 Worldwide 35594]

9 minutes ago, Satchel said:

It’s his bottom up view of Gospel praxis that gives him a soft spot for poor people under authoritarian rule.

Apparently it doesn’t offer a good view of poor people getting killed and raped by said authoritarians.

[Satchel 6982]

2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Apparently it doesn’t offer a good view of poor people getting killed and raped by said authoritarians.

And Francis is responsible for that in what way?

[956 Worldwide 35594]

2 minutes ago, Satchel said:

And Francis is responsible for that in what way?

He is responsible for repeating Putin’s talking points, he’s responsible for refusing to use his moral authority to clearly state who is responsible, and for encouraging Catholic nations and politicians to clearly choose sides.  This is the starkest example of an unjust, unprovoked war of colonial aggression driven by one person in our lifetimes. He is hiding behind dialogue with a person who is not capable of dialogue. 
 

This shit is straight out of Prvy Kanal:

Quote

ROME — Pope Francis said that NATO “barking” at Russia’s door may have led to Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine — and said he has offered to meet the Russian president in Moscow.

In an interview with the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera, Francis reflected on Russia’s lethal aggression toward its neighbor and said while he might not go as far as saying NATO’s presence in nearby countries “provoked” Moscow, it “perhaps facilitated” the invasion.

And this is moral confusion- and cowardice. Not to mention abandoning his Catholic flock in Western Ukraine. 
 

Quote

In the interview, Francis ruled out going to Kyiv for now: “First I have to go to Moscow, first I have to meet Putin.”

 

[956 Worldwide 35594]

Honestly, this dude is a joke. 
 

Quote

Francis veered toward conspiracy theory as he blamed the international community for instigating the war. “You cannot think that a free state can make war on another free state,” he said. “In Ukraine, it seems that it was others who created the conflict. I am pessimistic but we must do everything possible to stop the war.

Quote

Francis repeated comments he has made in general audiences and in other interviews that the war is nothing more than a giant opportunity for a “trade in arms” and that it is still ongoing because of the constant shuttling of weapons to Ukraine. He has spoken twice by phone to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, but mostly to urge him not to fight back.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pope-francis-says-nato-started-war-in-ukraine-by-barking-at-putins-door

[Satchel 6982]

5 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

He is responsible for repeating Putin’s talking points, he’s responsible for refusing to use his moral authority to clearly state who is responsible, and for encouraging Catholic nations and politicians to clearly choose sides.  This is the starkest example of an unjust, unprovoked war of colonial aggression driven by one person in our lifetimes. He is hiding behind dialogue with a person who is not capable of dialogue. 
 

This shit is straight out of Prvy Kanal:

And this is moral confusion- and cowardice. Not to mention abandoning his Catholic flock in Western Ukraine. 
 

 

Let’s put all of his comments and actions in context:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-says-he-is-considering-trip-kyiv-2022-04-02/

"From the east of Europe, from the land of the sunrise, the dark shadows of war have now spread. We had thought that invasions of other countries, savage street fighting and atomic threats were grim memories of a distant past," the pope said.

Moscow denies targeting civilians in the action it launched on Feb. 24, which it dubs a "special military operation" designed not to occupy territory but to demilitarise and "denazify" its neighbour. Francis has already rejected that terminology, calling it a war.

"However, the icy winds of war, which bring only death, destruction and hatred in their wake, have swept down powerfully upon the lives of many people and affected us all," Francis said.

"Once again, some potentate, sadly caught up in anachronistic claims of nationalist interests, is provoking and fomenting conflicts, whereas ordinary people sense the need to build a future that, will either be shared, or not be at all," he said, without mentioning Putin by name

[956 Worldwide 35594]

6 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Let’s put all of his comments and actions in context:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-says-he-is-considering-trip-kyiv-2022-04-02/

"From the east of Europe, from the land of the sunrise, the dark shadows of war have now spread. We had thought that invasions of other countries, savage street fighting and atomic threats were grim memories of a distant past," the pope said.

Moscow denies targeting civilians in the action it launched on Feb. 24, which it dubs a "special military operation" designed not to occupy territory but to demilitarise and "denazify" its neighbour. Francis has already rejected that terminology, calling it a war.

"However, the icy winds of war, which bring only death, destruction and hatred in their wake, have swept down powerfully upon the lives of many people and affected us all," Francis said.

"Once again, some potentate, sadly caught up in anachronistic claims of nationalist interests, is provoking and fomenting conflicts, whereas ordinary people sense the need to build a future that, will either be shared, or not be at all," he said, without mentioning Putin by name

That’s a bunch of passive voice horseshit. Try this:

“President Putin has launched an brutal, unprovoked war against a nation and a people who posed no threat to Russia. The world should help Ukrainians defend themselves against the murders, rapes, and indiscriminate attacks launched by Russian forces and Putin should immediately withdraw his troops from Ukrainian territory”

Anyone who needs words put in context on this topic is doing it wrong. 

[Hookah Horns 3089]

Yeah sure, we caused the war to create a reason to give Ukraine free weapons. More like Nope, Francis.

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

Reportedly the death toll for Russian generals in Ukraine is up to 12 and the Ukrainians are using shared intelligence from the U.S. to target them. From the NYT (link inside):

Spoiler

U.S. Intelligence Is Helping Ukraine Kill Russian Generals, Officials Say

May 4, 2022, 7:40 p.m. ET
Julian E. Barnes, Helene Cooper and Eric Schmitt

WASHINGTON — The United States has provided intelligence about Russian units that has allowed Ukrainians to target and kill many of the Russian generals who have died in action in the Ukraine war, according to senior American officials.

Ukrainian officials said they have killed approximately 12 generals on the front lines, a number that has astonished military analysts.

The targeting help is part of a classified effort by the Biden administration to provide real-time battlefield intelligence to Ukraine. That intelligence also includes anticipated Russian troop movements gleaned from recent American assessments of Moscow’s secret battle plan for the fighting in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, the officials said. Officials declined to specify how many generals had been killed as a result of U.S. assistance.

The United States has focused on providing the location and other details about the Russian military’s mobile headquarters, which relocate frequently. Ukrainian officials have combined that geographic information with their own intelligence — including intercepted communications that alert the Ukrainian military to the presence of senior Russian officers — to conduct artillery strikes and other attacks that have killed Russian officers.

The intelligence sharing is part of a stepped-up flow in U.S. assistance that includes heavier weapons and tens of billions in aid, demonstrating how quickly the early American restraints on support for Ukraine have shifted as the war enters a new stage that could play out over months.

U.S. intelligence support to the Ukrainians has had a decisive effect on the battlefield, confirming targets identified by the Ukrainian military and pointing it to new targets. The flow of actionable intelligence on the movement of Russian troops that America has given Ukraine has few precedents.

Since failing to advance on Kyiv, the capital, in the early part of the war, Russia has tried to regroup, with a more concentrated push in eastern Ukraine that so far has moved slowly and unevenly.

Officials interviewed for this article spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss details of the classified intelligence being shared with Ukraine.

The intelligence sharing is part of a stepped-up flow in U.S. assistance that includes heavier weapons and tens of billions in aid, demonstrating how quickly the early American restraints on support for Ukraine have shifted as the war enters a new stage that could play out over months.

U.S. intelligence support to the Ukrainians has had a decisive effect on the battlefield, confirming targets identified by the Ukrainian military and pointing it to new targets. The flow of actionable intelligence on the movement of Russian troops that America has given Ukraine has few precedents.

Since failing to advance on Kyiv, the capital, in the early part of the war, Russia has tried to regroup, with a more concentrated push in eastern Ukraine that so far has moved slowly and unevenly.

Officials interviewed for this article spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss details of the classified intelligence being shared with Ukraine.

The administration has sought to keep much of the battlefield intelligence secret, out of fear it will be seen as an escalation and provoke President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia into a wider war. American officials would not describe how they have acquired information on Russian troop headquarters, for fear of endangering their methods of collection. But throughout the war, the U.S. intelligence agencies have used a variety of sources, including classified and commercial satellites, to trace Russian troop movements.
Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III went so far as to say last month that “we want to see Russia weakened to the degree it cannot do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine.”

Asked about the intelligence being provided to the Ukrainians, John F. Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, said that “we will not speak to the details of that information.” But he acknowledged that the United States provides “Ukraine with information and intelligence that they can use to defend themselves.”

After this article published, Adrienne Watson, a National Security Council spokeswoman, said in a statement that the battlefield intelligence was not provided to the Ukrainians “with the intent to kill Russian generals.”

Not all the strikes have been carried out with American intelligence. A strike over the weekend at a location in eastern Ukraine where Gen. Valery Gerasimov, Russia’s highest-ranking uniformed officer, had visited was not aided by American intelligence, according to multiple U.S. officials. The United States prohibits itself from providing intelligence about the most senior Russian leaders, officials said.

But American intelligence was critical in the deaths of other generals, officials acknowledged.

The United States routinely provides information about the movement of Russian troops and equipment, and helps Ukraine confirm the location of critical targets. Other NATO allies also give real-time intelligence to the Ukrainian military.

The Biden administration is also supplying new weaponry that should improve Ukraine’s ability to target senior Russian officers. The smaller version of the Switchblade drone, which is now arriving on the battlefield, can be used to identify and kill individual soldiers, and could take out a general sitting in a vehicle or giving orders on a front line.

American officials have acknowledged publicly that the United States began giving Ukraine actionable intelligence in the run-up to Russia’s invasion on Feb. 24. Ahead of the invasion, for example, U.S. intelligence agencies warned of an impending attack on the Hostomel airport north of Kyiv. That allowed Ukraine to strengthen its defenses. Russian airborne forces were ultimately unable to hold the airfield.

While the information the United States has provided Ukraine has proved valuable, Russian generals have often left themselves exposed to electronic eavesdropping by speaking over unsecure phones and radios, current and former American military officials said.

“It shows poor discipline, lack of experience, arrogance and failure to appreciate Ukrainian capabilities,” said Frederick B. Hodges, the former top U.S. Army commander in Europe who is now with the Center for European Policy Analysis. “It is not hard to geo-locate someone on a phone talking in the clear.”

Russian military tactics have also left senior generals vulnerable. A centralized, top-down command hierarchy gives decision-making authority only to the highest levels — compared to the more decentralized American structure that pushes many battlefield decisions to senior enlisted personnel and junior officers — forcing Russian generals to make risky trips to the front lines to resolve logistical and operational issues.

“When there are problems, the general officers have to go sort it out,” said General Hodges.

Although the administration remains wary of inflaming Mr. Putin to the point that he further escalates his attacks — President Biden has said he will not send American troops to Ukraine or establish a “no-fly zone” there — current and former officials said the White House finds some value in warning Russia that Ukraine has the weight of the United States and NATO behind it.

Some European officials believe, despite Mr. Putin’s rhetoric that Russia is battling NATO and the West, he has so far been deterred from starting a wider war. American officials are less certain, and have been debating for weeks why Mr. Putin has not done more to escalate the conflict.
Officials said Moscow has its own calculations to weigh, including whether it can handle a bigger war, particularly one that would allow NATO to invoke its mutual defense charter or enter the war more directly.

“Clearly, we want the Russians to know on some level that we are helping the Ukrainians to this extent, and we will continue to do so,” said Evelyn Farkas, the former top Defense Department official for Russia and Ukraine in the Obama administration. “We will give them everything they need to win, and we’re not afraid of Vladimir Putin’s reaction to that. We won’t be self-deterred.”

But intelligence sharing is considered a safe form of help because it is invisible, or, at least, deniable. American intelligence has given secret information to Ukraine in a wide range of areas, from Russian troop movements to targeting data, officials said.

Last month, the United States increased the flow of intelligence to Ukraine about Russian forces in the Donbas and Crimea, as Kyiv’s military forces prepared to defend against a renewed offensive by Moscow in eastern Ukraine, U.S. officials said.

“There’s a significant amount of intelligence flowing to Ukraine from the United States,” Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Senate panel on Tuesday. “We have opened up the pipes.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/04/us/politics/russia-generals-killed-ukraine.html

And here’s a link to a non-paywalled report on the report:

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3477744-us-has-helped-ukraine-target-russian-generals-report/

 

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21551]

On 5/3/2022 at 2:36 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

He is responsible for repeating Putin’s talking points, he’s responsible for refusing to use his moral authority to clearly state who is responsible, and for encouraging Catholic nations and politicians to clearly choose sides.  This is the starkest example of an unjust, unprovoked war of colonial aggression driven by one person in our lifetimes. He is hiding behind dialogue with a person who is not capable of dialogue. 
 

This shit is straight out of Prvy Kanal:

And this is moral confusion- and cowardice. Not to mention abandoning his Catholic flock in Western Ukraine. 
 

 

A Catholic pope being a POS dirtbag?  Who'da thunk it. 

[Anastasis 23720]

Echo chamber thread really showing out for you @immamac

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Echo chamber thread really showing out for you @immamac

what are you on about now?

[Anastasis 23720]

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

what are you on about now?

Mostly just laughing at the unopposed propaganda platform that has been created here. 

[jimmyjazz 47203]

3 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

what are you on about now?

something something carveout something proxy something broken brain

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Mostly just laughing at the unopposed propaganda platform that has been created here. 

feel free to fuck off somewhere else

[Anastasis 23720]

2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

feel free to fuck off somewhere else

roger. 

[Hornius Emeritus 12804]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Mostly just laughing at the unopposed propaganda platform that has been created here. 

What propaganda platform is that? The platform that opposes the Russian decimation of Ukraine, finding it morally repugnant?

 

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

11 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

what are you on about now?

Supporting Putin and Russia just like always?

[Thatguy 9366]

12 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

What propaganda platform is that? The platform that opposes the Russian decimation of Ukraine, finding it morally repugnant?

 

[wildcat09 29579]

I'd been wondering why we haven't seen Ana spiking the football over Roe's impending demise. I guess it's because he's been so distraught over his boy Putin's failure to conquer Ukraine that he can't think about anything else.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

reading that Russia lost another warship to a country that has no navy.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

seems like everyone is still up in the air about that.  can't get any real confirmation.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

neat (video in 2nd tweet)

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

Putin loses another ship!

 

[Deej 77827]

On 5/3/2022 at 2:15 PM, Satchel said:

It’s his bottom up view of Gospel praxis that gives him a soft spot for poor people under authoritarian rule.

He likes a bottom up view, alright, just not of the Gospel.

[Satchel 6982]

1 minute ago, Deej said:

He likes a bottom up view, alright, just not of the Gospel.

 

mmkay.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

Spoiler

If you just followed news reports on Ukraine, you might think that the war has settled into a long, grinding and somewhat boring slog. You would be wrong.

Things are actually getting more dangerous by the day.

For starters, the longer this war goes on, the more opportunity for catastrophic miscalculations — and the raw material for that is piling up fast and furious. Take the two high-profile leaks from American officials this past week about U.S. involvement in the Russia-Ukraine war:

First, The Times disclosed that “the United States has provided intelligence about Russian units that has allowed Ukrainians to target and kill many of the Russian generals who have died in action in the Ukraine war, according to senior American officials.” Second, The Times, following a report by NBC News and citing U.S. officials, reported that America has “provided intelligence that helped Ukrainian forces locate and strike” the Moskva, the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet. This targeting assistance “contributed to the eventual sinking” of the Moskva by two Ukrainian cruise missiles.

As a journalist, I love a good leak story, and the reporters who broke those stories did powerful digging. At the same time, from everything I have been able to glean from senior U.S. officials, who spoke to me on condition of anonymity, the leaks were not part of any thought-out strategy, and President Biden was livid about them. I’m told that he called the director of national intelligence, the director of the C.I.A. and the secretary of defense to make clear in the strongest and most colorful language that this kind of loose talk is reckless and has got to stop immediately — before we end up in an unintended war with Russia.

The staggering takeaway from these leaks is that they suggest we are no longer in an indirect war with Russia but rather edging toward a direct war — and no one has prepared the American people or Congress for that.

Vladimir Putin surely has no illusions about how much the U.S. and NATO are arming Ukraine with material and intelligence, but when American officials start to brag in public about playing a role in killing Russian generals and sinking the Russian flagship, killing many sailors, we could be creating an opening for Putin to respond in ways that could dangerously widen this conflict — and drag the U.S. in deeper than it wants to be.

It is doubly dangerous, senior U.S. officials say, because it is increasingly obvious to them that Putin’s behavior is not as predictable as it has been in the past. And Putin is running out of options for some kind of face-saving success on the ground — or even a face-saving off ramp.

It is hard to exaggerate what a catastrophe this war has been for Putin so far. Indeed, Biden pointed out to his team that Putin was trying to push back on NATO expansion, and he’s ended up laying the groundwork for the expansion of NATO. Both Finland and Sweden are now taking steps toward joining an alliance they’ve stayed out of for seven decades.

But that is why U.S. officials are quite concerned what Putin might do or announce at the Victory Day celebration in Moscow on Monday, which marks the anniversary of the Soviet Union’s defeat of Nazi Germany. It is traditionally a day of military parades and celebration of the prowess of the Russian Army. Putin could mobilize even more soldiers, make some other provocation or do nothing at all. But no one knows.

Alas, we have to be alive to the fact that it’s not only the Russians who would like to involve us more deeply. Have no illusions, President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine has been trying to do the same thing from the start — to make Ukraine an immediate member of NATO or get Washington to forge a bilateral security pact with Kyiv. I am in awe of Zelensky’s heroism and leadership. If I were him, I’d be trying to get the U.S. as enmeshed on my side as he is.

But I’m an American citizen, and I want us to be careful. Ukraine was, and still is, a country marbled with corruption. That doesn’t mean we should not be helping it. I am glad we are. I insist we do. But my sense is that the Biden team is walking much more of a tightrope with Zelensky than it would appear to the eye — wanting to do everything possible to make sure he wins this war but doing so in a way that still keeps some distance between us and Ukraine’s leadership. That’s so Kyiv is not calling the shots and so we’ll not be embarrassed by messy Ukrainian politics in the war’s aftermath.

The view of Biden and his team, according to my reporting, is that America needs to help Ukraine restore its sovereignty and beat the Russians back — but not let Ukraine turn itself into an American protectorate on the border of Russia. We need to stay laser-focused on what is our national interest and not stray in ways that lead to exposures and risks we don’t want.

One thing I know about Biden — with whom I traveled to Afghanistan in 2002 when he was a senator heading the Foreign Relations Committee — is that he is not easily romanced by world leaders. He has dealt with too many of them over his career. He’s got a pretty good sense of where U.S. interests stop and start. Ask the Afghans.

So where are we now? Putin’s Plan A — taking Kyiv and installing his own leader — has failed. And his Plan B — trying just to take full control of Ukraine’s old industrial heartland, known as the Donbas, which is largely Russian speaking — is still in doubt. Putin’s freshly reinforced ground forces have made some progress, but it’s still limited. It is springtime in the Donbas, meaning the ground is still sometimes muddy and wet, so Russian armor still has to stay on roads and highways in many areas, making them vulnerable.

As America navigates Ukraine and Russia and tries to avoid being ensnared, one bright spot in the effort to avoid a wider war is the administration’s success at keeping China from providing military aid to Russia. This has been huge.

After all, it was just Feb. 4 when China’s president, Xi Jinping, hosted Putin at the opening of the 2022 Winter Olympic Games, where they unveiled all sorts of trade and energy agreements, and then issued a joint declaration asserting that the friendship between Russia and China “has no limits.”

That was then. After the war started, Biden personally explained to Xi in a lengthy phone call that China’s economic future rests on access to the American and European markets — its two largest trading partners — and should China provide military aid to Putin, it would have very negative consequences for China’s trade with both markets. Xi did the math and has been deterred from helping Russia in any military way, which has also made Putin weaker. The Western restrictions on shipping microchips to Russia have begun to really hobble some of his factories — and China has not stepped in, so far.

My bottom line echoes my top line — and I can’t underscore it enough: We need to stick as tightly as possible to our original limited and clearly defined aim of helping Ukraine expel Russian forces as much as possible or negotiate for their withdrawal whenever Ukraine’s leaders feel the time is right.

But we are dealing with some incredibly unstable elements, particularly a politically wounded Putin. Boasting about killing his generals and sinking his ships, or falling in love with Ukraine in ways that will get us enmeshed there forever, is the height of folly.

 

 

I’d love to know who’s leaking intel about the extent of our involvement. The “deep state” or military industrial complex at its worst. Even if you want us balls deep in the conflict but under the radar it’s no benefit to us to broadcast it. Those people want escalation, anonymously of course. Scumbags. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Immaculate Vibes
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