Ukraine War

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

Progressives: I’m going to write the dumbest letter 

 

Gosar: Hold my can of piss  

 

[kevwun 15764]

Wonder how much money he got to send that letter?

[956 Worldwide 34701]

My favorite part of that letter is “problematic” as a descriptor of tens of thousands of civilian casualties, burned homes, wrecked cities. Usually you see that word on progressive Twitter as a descriptor of some comrade-in-arms who is not ideologically pure— but yeah, sure Paul. Putin’s murder of civilians is “problematic.” 

[RDCanecutter 26381]

24 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Progressives: I’m going to write the dumbest letter 

 

Gosar: Hold my can of piss  

 

Pretty clever actually. If I wanted to impress someone with the idea of a post-nuclear-blast hellscape full of roaming bands of mutants, Arizona might be perfect.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33860]

 

[Tuco 5076]

6 hours ago, kevwun said:

Wonder how much money he got to send that letter?

He has always been about peace, love, and murdering immigrants. 

 

 

[Pescado_Rojo 19413]

6 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Progressives: I’m going to write the dumbest letter 

 

Gosar: Hold my can of piss  

 

Let's not forget this is the guy who's whole family took out a full page newspaper ad in his district urging people to vote for his opponent. 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

Quote

Some translated excerpts from the interview (in Spanish):

They are friends and regimental comrades. They arrived together and intend to leave together, as a brotherhood. They are tough, easy smiling and athletic. The Canary Islander, nicknamed Cuervo, is 185 centimeters tall and weighs 77 kilograms. Willy from Málaga, 179 cm and 75 kg. Ruko, from Cádiz, is about 170 cm and weighs 70 kg. They fire assault rifles. They are officially part of the Ukrainian Army. They defend with their lives their adopted territory.

Chronicle asked them why they are fighting. "It's the least we could do amid the savagery the Russians have been inflicting on so many killed innocent women and children," they answer without hesitation on Tuesday, October 11.

They are well-trained, battle-experienced military men. And they were accepted as one of their own in Zelensky's army. "We are on the front line and our main mission is position holding, assault, clearing, community protection and destruction and elimination of targets."

[...]

"My nickname is Willy and I am 34 years old. I come from Málaga, Spain. My main motivation was to prevent the massacre the Russians have been committing here. We were deeply disturbed by the murder of so many defenseless people."

"I am Ruko, I am 32 years old, and I am from Cádiz. I have been living in Madrid for the last few years. My impulse to come here was, basically, the injustice that the Ukrainian people are going through."

"I am Cuervo, 37 years old, I was born in Venezuela, but I have been in Tenerife since I was 15. I have military experience with them in the same unit, a pretty powerful one in Spain. We have the knowledge and we can help..." His colleagues chorused, "he is Spanish, even though he has a slight Venezuelan accent, he is Spanish."

[...]

The great mobilizer was Willy. He is the one who forged this modern Spanish tercio. Also with the idea of a triangle of friendship. You can feel that there is chemistry between them, that there is a unity, that they are a family of arms. They undertook this journey with their savings. They left behind parents and siblings, Cuervo even left behind a daughter. The weather has not yet besieged them. They are at a comfortable 15 degrees.

[...]

Q: Have you been close to dying?

- By artillery fire. When that happens, we get in the trench and pray.

- They say that's the worst moment, when it starts raining fire from the sky and you don't know where the fire is coming from.

- One hides where one can and let that gale of terror pass.... Well, recently we were greeted by some fighters with a couple of missiles. And the truth is we didn't even know where to run. We took the first mound we saw, then we crouched down and covered our heads with our hands and, well, God help us.

[...]

Q: Do you have the perception of victory today?

- We are moving forward quite fast. And we also see that the resistance right now is virtually nil. There are dozens of kilometers per day that we are taking up again. We have been like this for a month now.

Q: What has moved you the most once you have liberated an area?

- Entering the houses to clear them from enemies and seeing the daily life that has been left behind. The children's toys, the beds made, the memories of life... You can tell they didn't even have time to think.

And they... (Willy holds a puppy dog in his hands. He looks affable and loved. He gives grateful licks to the Spanish soldier. The three of them love animals, in his profile picture, Ruko has two dogs...)

- They are the other victims.

- There are too many of them lost and disoriented. We have taken care of the poor little dogs we see out there. We try to take care of them and feed them until the moment we leave. They are not to blame for this war either.

Q: Do you have any political ties? Pro-Russians will claim that you are neo-Nazis...

- We respect all views here. We call Cuervo the Negro (laughs). And he is one of us. Just kidding... Seriously, we are certainly right-wing, but by no means Nazis. Pro-Russians will always tell lies about the defenders of Ukraine. What motivates us is protecting these children and women, who are being killed, that can't be allowed to happen. We have given up everything for that.

[...]

Q: Date of return?

- We don't have a return ticket. We will return only after victory.

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20390]

This did not end well for these Russian soldiers.
 

 

[The Dog 44019]

 

[wildcat09 29345]

19 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

I really don't get the point in leaking this for a story now.

[Gengs1 2583]

25 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I really don't get the point in leaking this for a story now.

Midterms and getting people raged up. Seems like Republican playbook right there 

[wildcat09 29345]

3 minutes ago, Gengs1 said:

Midterms and getting people raged up. Seems like Republican playbook right there 

But the leak would've come from someone in this administration. They think it helps them in the midterms, but I'm not sure why.

[956 Worldwide 34701]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

But the leak would've come from someone in this administration. They think it helps them in the midterms, but I'm not sure why.

The Ukrainians are super effective at keeping the lines of communication open with the administration and Congress— both parties. My bet is this is a R Congressional leak designed to distract from McCarthy’s recent comments.

[The Dog 44019]

This is from the appeasement faction of the Democratic party IMHO. 

Just another stunt along the lines of that ridiculous letter they released last week.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

This is from the appeasement faction of the Democratic party IMHO. 

Just another stunt along the lines of that ridiculous letter they released last week.

I think that's right.

[956 Worldwide 34701]

“Sources familiar with the call” is a lot of wiggle room, journalistically speaking. I absolutely believe it’s coming out of Congress and not the White House. 

[The Dog 44019]

4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

“Sources familiar with the call” is a lot of wiggle room, journalistically speaking. I absolutely believe it’s coming out of Congress and not the White House. 

Yeah but you need to understand one of the more underreported things has been the pressure Biden has been under from within his own administration to give Putin an "off ramp." Guys like Angry Staffer and some OSINT guys have been complaining about this. It got blown out into the open last week with that letter (even though it was from congress) and now this. 

The problem is the vatniks from the GOP suck all of the oxygen out of the room (and McCarthy is a tool) so it's easy to not know it's going on.

This is another shot across Biden's bow from that camp IMHO.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33860]

oh no! he got angry? did he also blackmail him too? oh, no? well stfu then

Edited October 31, 2022 by Longhorn_Fan68

[kevwun 15764]

What was Hitler or Napoleon's off ramp?  Putin rubbed shit on his own face and he's the only one who can wipe it off.

Edited October 31, 2022 by kevwun

[Tuco 5076]

5 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

But the leak would've come from someone in this administration. They think it helps them in the midterms, but I'm not sure why.

I agree.  It's weird.  

There are two elements to the story: 1. Biden pushed back on more aid.  2. Biden "lost his temper."

On the first one, that is a relatively objective statement.  Whether it makes Biden bad depends on how you view the aid.  Using the terms loosely, if you are a hawk, it makes Biden look bad and if you are a dove, it makes him look good.  

On the second point, it's pretty anti-Biden.  It's pretty rare that you would describe "losing your temper" as a favorable statement.  "Biden passionately objected.." would certainly sound better.  

And, another difference on it is it would be difficult to determine if "Biden lost his temper" from reading a transcript.  It would imply direct observation, although it's possible a Republican leak would infer, reasonably or cynically, that Biden was angry.  

So, with all that in mind...

....I think it's unlikely it's the House Dems.  I could see them possibly leaking the pushback, but it's along different lines (money) than what their letter pushed.  But the second part is straight up self defeating.  There is benefit in dragging Biden down before an election. Public disagreement is one thing - demonstrating you are not just a party stooge.  But anonymously hurting the brand before an election is silly. 

...I think it's unlikely it's Meadows' branch.  It is counter to their argument - that Biden is just a blank check. 

...I think it's unlikely it was an intentional leak from Biden loyalists in the administration.  Ok, it does undermine Meadows' argument about the blank check, but it builds the "Biden is an angry old man" image that fits tightly how Republicans try to paint him.  If they leaked it, they did so incompetently.  And they don't seem incompetent. 

...it could just be a admin official - maybe someone on the military side - getting frustrated and going off script.  There are more than just the two parties in Washington.  The Trump White House leaked like a sieve.  There is no reason to believe everything comes out of the Biden White House is intentional.  But the fact the cited multiple people makes that less likely unless there are several hawks getting pissed.  And it happened in June. 

...Another strong possibility would be Republican hawks who inferred Biden was angry if the transcripts were shared with them.  If Ukraine does ultimately prevail, it will be an accomplishment cited by Biden 2024 campaign, rightly or wrongly.  The Republicans have an interest in painting it as Zelensky winning the war despite Biden, instead of because of him.  And, of course, it helps with the angry old main image they are cultivating.  

 

[Pescado_Rojo 19413]

16 hours ago, Tuco said:

I agree.  It's weird.  

There are two elements to the story: 1. Biden pushed back on more aid.  2. Biden "lost his temper."

On the first one, that is a relatively objective statement.  Whether it makes Biden bad depends on how you view the aid.  Using the terms loosely, if you are a hawk, it makes Biden look bad and if you are a dove, it makes him look good.  

On the second point, it's pretty anti-Biden.  It's pretty rare that you would describe "losing your temper" as a favorable statement.  "Biden passionately objected.." would certainly sound better.  

And, another difference on it is it would be difficult to determine if "Biden lost his temper" from reading a transcript.  It would imply direct observation, although it's possible a Republican leak would infer, reasonably or cynically, that Biden was angry.  

So, with all that in mind...

....I think it's unlikely it's the House Dems.  I could see them possibly leaking the pushback, but it's along different lines (money) than what their letter pushed.  But the second part is straight up self defeating.  There is benefit in dragging Biden down before an election. Public disagreement is one thing - demonstrating you are not just a party stooge.  But anonymously hurting the brand before an election is silly. 

...I think it's unlikely it's Meadows' branch.  It is counter to their argument - that Biden is just a blank check. 

...I think it's unlikely it was an intentional leak from Biden loyalists in the administration.  Ok, it does undermine Meadows' argument about the blank check, but it builds the "Biden is an angry old man" image that fits tightly how Republicans try to paint him.  If they leaked it, they did so incompetently.  And they don't seem incompetent. 

...it could just be a admin official - maybe someone on the military side - getting frustrated and going off script.  There are more than just the two parties in Washington.  The Trump White House leaked like a sieve.  There is no reason to believe everything comes out of the Biden White House is intentional.  But the fact the cited multiple people makes that less likely unless there are several hawks getting pissed.  And it happened in June. 

...Another strong possibility would be Republican hawks who inferred Biden was angry if the transcripts were shared with them.  If Ukraine does ultimately prevail, it will be an accomplishment cited by Biden 2024 campaign, rightly or wrongly.  The Republicans have an interest in painting it as Zelensky winning the war despite Biden, instead of because of him.  And, of course, it helps with the angry old main image they are cultivating.  

 

[RomaVicta 29902]

 

As for the off ramp, I'll quote this well known pacifist.

Quote

Sun Tzu said 'When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard'.

The Art of War

You may disagree with the policy, but it's neither stupid nor weak. 

On the story of Biden's loss of temper, I think his people want to ensure that Biden is not perceived as a doormat to Zelensky. It also shows that Biden is being judicious with aid. I think that strengthens the perception of his leadership. The "losing temper" part is likely exagerrated, IMHO, to appeal to the people who like that sort of thing. 

Just another angle.

Edited November 1, 2022 by RomaVicta

[Captainant 27633]

1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

As for the off ramp, I'll quote this well known pacifist.

You may disagree with the policy, but it's neither stupid nor weak. 

I mean, Putin isn't trapped in Ukraine. He can leave whenever he wants lol. You're soft arguing that the west should throw some appeasement to the fascist to make it less difficult to continue to hoodwink and conscript his people in future conflicts. 

 

Leaders like putin are a cancer. You can't just wave a magic wand and hope they'll go away because you gave them an avenue for escape. They play for fucking keeps. You gotta destroy the cancer before it metastasizes into another cycle of authoritarian/fascistic leadership.

5 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

On the story of Biden's loss of temper, I think his people want to ensure that Biden is not perceived as a doormat to Zelensky. It also shows that Biden is being judicious with aid. I think that strengthens to perception of his leadership. The "losing temper" part is likely exagerrated, IMHO, to appeal to the people who like that sort of thing. 

I may be reading tea leaves too much, but I wonder if part of it is generating soundbites to fight the GQP accusations of giving Ukraine a blank check

[Chad Fuck 17659]

I may be reading tea leaves too much, but I wonder if part of it is generating soundbites to fight the GQP accusations of giving Ukraine a blank check

This is what it sounded like to me. 1. There is no blank check and 2. The “getting angry” about it sounds much more like an appeal to emotions on the right than on the left. So overall, an appeal to those on the right.

[RomaVicta 29902]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

I mean, Putin isn't trapped in Ukraine. He can leave whenever he wants lol. You're soft arguing that the west should throw some appeasement to the fascist to make it less difficult to continue to hoodwink and conscript his people in future conflicts. 

You're really not qualified to tell me what I'm arguing. What I argue is on the page. Fuck your presumption.

I merely point out what I point out. I don't state a position, in fact I say one can argue with it as policy.

You see me in a rigid position that I've not articulated. I think you project.

[Captainant 27633]

19 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

You're really not qualified to tell me what I'm arguing. What I argue is on the page. Fuck your presumption.

I merely point out what I point out. I don't state a position, in fact I say one can argue with it as policy.

You see me in a rigid position that I've not articulated. I think you project.

Well then you tell me what making an "off ramp" for Putin looks like without giving up significant portions of Ukraine's stolen territory. Putin is trying to save face, but he cannot save face with anything less than victory. 

As long as Putin is running Russia, this will not change. And even after Putin, the dynamic may remain just with new names

[RomaVicta 29902]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Well then you tell me what making an "off ramp" for Putin looks like without giving up significant portions of Ukraine's stolen territory. Putin is trying to save face, but he cannot save face with anything less than victory. 

As long as Putin is running Russia, this will not change. And even after Putin, the dynamic may remain just with new names

You have it all figured out. You don't need explanation from me.

[Humble Beast 258]

2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

 

On the story of Biden's loss of temper, I think his people want to ensure that Biden is not perceived as a doormat to Zelensky. It also shows that Biden is being judicious with aid. I think that strengthens the perception of his leadership. The "losing temper" part is likely exagerrated, IMHO, to appeal to the people who like that sort of thing. 

Just another angle.

This is 100% what this is. NBC would not run with something leaked by Rs to hurt Biden in any way. Pretty smart little leak imo. 

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

28 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Well then you tell me what making an "off ramp" for Putin looks like without giving up significant portions of Ukraine's stolen territory. Putin is trying to save face, but he cannot save face with anything less than victory. 

As long as Putin is running Russia, this will not change. And even after Putin, the dynamic may remain just with new names

I think he’s saying there is no spoon.

[atomheartbevo 89626]

 

[956 Worldwide 34701]

5 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

 

As for the off ramp, I'll quote this well known pacifist.

You may disagree with the policy, but it's neither stupid nor weak. 

Checked the recent updates and it turns out the Ukrainian military is not on the eastern border of Donetsk or Luhansk oblast and the Russians can take that exit any time they want. 

[RomaVicta 29902]

Swell. We're all badasses now who won't even entertain other perspectives. Appeasement of Hitler is the model for everything. 

I didn't bring up "off ramp." Somebody else did with scorn.

Ever wonder how we get into stupid wars for simplistic reasons? Supporting Ukraine is the right policy. Bleeding Russia is a good policy as they are our enemies. Sun Tzu's quote need not be strictly limited to a trapped army. 

I do think we don't want Russia desperate. Whether they are or not is beyond my knowledge. At some point bleeding may prove to have diminishing returns. It's important, evidently, that we not consider that situation in advance. We're badasses. Likely idiots, too.

Hooray America!

[atomheartbevo 89626]

21 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I do think we don't want Russia desperate.

Agreed fully, but the problem is that we aren’t talking about Russia, because Russia doesn’t make the decisions, and Russian national security is not threatened by a fully-intact Ukraine.  

Vladimir Putin is making the decisions, and he is threatened by a fully-intact Ukraine.  This is the result of a century (or more) of Russian society being beaten down/oppressed, with those who want freedom fleeing the country, whether it was the 1910s, 1920s, or 2022, leaving the uneducated and/or complacent behind.

edit: unfortunately we can’t separate Russia from Putin’s decision-making, and he has used state security to make sure there is nobody around who could organize and present a threat to his power.

Edited November 1, 2022 by atomheartbevo

[956 Worldwide 34701]

The family of criminals across the street is in my neighbor’s house and they’re raping all of the women, carting out TVs, and whacking the men with a pipe.
 

But have we considered the perspective of the head criminal? He’s offered to stop for a while if he can just have the swimming pool and backyard for himself and if my neighbor drops out of the neighborhood watch, hands over his guns, and lets one of the criminals be head of his household? 
 

Do we really want to make the gang leader desperate? It’s just a little bit of rape right now, and it’s only my neighbor. Imagine what he might do if he we didn’t let him do that? 
 

Fuck anyone who thinks this is about “badass,” Russia is murdering and raping their way across Ukraine, which is not and cannot be a threat to Russia. 

 

 

[elfenix 34223]

Headline missing important information. But what else should you expect from the failing lIbErAl MeDiA

Edited November 1, 2022 by elfenix

[TwiceHorn 31438]

On 10/28/2022 at 10:24 AM, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Progressives: I’m going to write the dumbest letter 

 

Gosar: Hold my can of piss  

 

Kind of amusing that all of the "depredations of war" he whinges about are pretty much all directly attributable to Putin and not at all to Ukraine:  civilian casualties and displacements, nuclear undertones, fighting centered on nuclear facilities, and unconventional military responses.

Maybe, Paul, DDS, that's why the right-thinking free world wants to see Putin defeated.  I dunno.

Edited November 1, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[956 Worldwide 34701]

The Noam Chomsky left continues to show its ass.  Here’s Bernie Sanders’ former SPOX  going on a podcast and being terrible but defending herself by saying the letter was reasonable and that the US shouldn’t do something in Ukraine because Haiti exists.

The thing is, she can’t— she just CANNOT maintain the facade that this is anything but latent sympathy for Russia and knee-jerk anti-Americanism.  Here she is asking why a Gray Zone (well-known Kremlin proxy outlet) reporter— one who alleges that the OPCW doctored its reports on Syria chemical attacks and who was found to be one of the most prolific spreaders of disinformation related to Syria— is not being given a platform. JuSt AsKiNg QuEsTiOns.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

Maybe don’t amplify and spread her message.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Brie is a certified grifting nut.

Even Bernie has disowned her and the majority of irritating wing of the “progressives” have dumped her too.

Her podcast is called “Bad Faith”, FFS.

[atomheartbevo 89626]

15 hours ago, elfenix said:

Headline missing important information. But what else should you expect from the failing lIbErAl MeDiA

Very misleading headline - the price of the Canon EOS R6 II should be mentioned in the headline, rather than throwing in clickbait language like “Pricing Shocks”

[The Dog 44019]

Goddammit Joe give them planes:

 

[RomaVicta 29902]

2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Brie is a certified grifting nut.

Even Bernie has disowned her and the majority of irritating wing of the “progressives” have dumped her too.

Her podcast is called “Bad Faith”, FFS.

When you're rage shopping, sometimes you have to go through the store and out the back to search the dumpster to find exactly what you need. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

Gosar and the Progressives getting a shout out from our friendly neighborhood propagandists. 
 

 

[atomheartbevo 89626]

 

[Brisketexan 105064]

 

Again, I see MAGA types who are denizens if a friends FB page. They are all-in on “Ukrainians are Nazis” and “Putin is awesome.”
The masturbatory fervor with which the MAGAs love fascist authoritarianism still blows me away. It shouldn’t anymore, but it still does.

[956 Worldwide 34701]

On 11/4/2022 at 3:34 AM, atomheartbevo said:

 

Was coming to post this.  You can’t even blame this on Russian influence operations, it’s simply what right-wing media decided to do.  “Our voters support the right, moral thing! This can’t be allowed to stand.”

[DigglerontheHoof 21176]

Republicans are enemies of America.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33860]

On 11/5/2022 at 7:31 AM, DigglerontheHoof said:

Republicans are enemies of America.

[Captainant 27633]

Edit: miller got it covered in DT. But since this is CR: no duh the Russians are promoting republicans lol. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Captainant