Ukraine War

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

16 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Pretty fucking disappointed in Merkley and Sanders.

Not sure what merkley’s reasoning was but Bernie’s is on brand. 

[Fastbreak 3971]

29 Rs
 

If you told me that this list was those involved in the insurrection I wouldn’t bat an eye.

[kevwun 15746]

That list is a who's who of assholes.

[TexasEd 8066]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Not sure what merkley’s reasoning was but Bernie’s is on brand. 

If a Jewish Senator is calling out Israel then maybe we should scrutinize a little more.

Isn't the Biden Administration ask that Israel allow for evacuation of families from Raffa before the army goes in?  Is that a bad policy?  WTF, are we trying to create another Putin in the region?

 

It's like republicans are taking crazy pills:

1. Putin bombs apartment buildings - don't let the Ukrainians have anything to defend themselves
2. Civilians are trapped in Raffa - Don't ensure they can evacuate before Israel bombs them

These are really the Republican positions on these matters.

Edited February 13 by TexasEd

[Foosters 17801]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:54 PM, Boss Hogg said:

Because Rs know their voters prioritize the border over Ukraine and Israel?

Boy, can't wait to see the blowback from their voters after they killed the border deal.

[Fastbreak 3971]

It’s been really cost efficient for Putin to have funded online misinformation for the past 15 or so years. Whoever came up with the plan and the infrastructure deserves a Nobel Prize (although they probably fell out of a window).

[DDD Dad 14313]

11 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

It’s been really cost efficient for Putin to have funded online misinformation for the past 15 or so years. Whoever came up with the plan and the infrastructure deserves a Nobel Prize (although they probably fell out of a window).
 

I clicked on that hoping it was satire.  I was disappointed.

[Gil Bang 25906]

literal nazis that elected a Jew as president.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

What do they mean when they say that?  Is it just the same as saying supporting the US is supporting Nazis because we have a couple thousand neoNazis? Or is there some policy they reference that is somehow Nazi-like eg genocidal?

[Brisketexan 104938]

1 minute ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

What do they mean when they say that?  Is it just the same as saying supporting the US is supporting Nazis because we have a couple thousand neoNazis? Or is there some policy they reference that is somehow Nazi-like eg genocidal?

Dude.  Read the rest of this guy's stuff.  He's all in on the biolabs shit, the US always lies and Putin speaks the truth, and Putin is a true defender of the faith vs. the US which is a degenerate society with queers and trans people.  I swear to god, I am not making ANY of that up.  That is where these people come from.

Russian disinformation campaigns were perhaps the most successful, cost-effective military operation in human history.  They damned near brought down the most powerful country in the world, and they still have a shot at doing so.  Oh, and millions of our fellow Americans are willing accomplices.

[Neonmoon 38129]

11 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

What do they mean when they say that?  Is it just the same as saying supporting the US is supporting Nazis because we have a couple thousand neoNazis? Or is there some policy they reference that is somehow Nazi-like eg genocidal?

Putin said he invaded for De-Nazification. It’s dumb and easily disprovable, but when a dictator says something, everyone that supports the insane dictator has to argue the dumbest shit.

also see:

Greatest Economy Ever, Ivermectin, Election Rigged, I didn’t rape her, etc.

 

[Dahobbs 17511]

14 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

What do they mean when they say that?  Is it just the same as saying supporting the US is supporting Nazis because we have a couple thousand neoNazis? Or is there some policy they reference that is somehow Nazi-like eg genocidal?

@956 Worldwide can provide you an in depth answered and covered this in the DT thread. The short answer is that Nazi means something different in Russia and isn't as intrinsically linked with anti-Semitism as it is here. Folks like this are adopting the Russian view of the term whether they are aware of it or not. 

[Fastbreak 3971]

It’s brilliant that Putin makes these people in bumfuck, Iowa believe that it is their patriotic neighbor down the street posting these things on Facebook and Twitter, when in reality it is 23 year old Dmitri running 73 machines at the Troll Factory in St Petersburg.

[bolverk 29637]

In case anyone missed this discussion of Ukraine last night of the Daily Show last night. I do like how she (editor-in-chief of the Economist) discusses the various factions within the GOP and other opponents of aid to Ukraine.  

 

[956 Worldwide 34675]

38 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

@956 Worldwide can provide you an in depth answered and covered this in the DT thread. The short answer is that Nazi means something different in Russia and isn't as intrinsically linked with anti-Semitism as it is here. Folks like this are adopting the Russian view of the term whether they are aware of it or not. 

Yep.  Soviet and subsequent Russian historiography framed the decisive features of Nazism and Fascism as anti-Soviet and anti-Russianism and not totalitarianism or antisemitism.  The war is understood as primarily a war between the Nazis and the Soviets (then Russians), in fact in Russian schools they do not teach about a “Second World War” from 1939-1945, they teach the “Great Patriotic War” of 1941-1945.

Part of this is helped along by the complicated relationships that Eastern European national movements had with occupying Nazi forces. Part of it is also the truly beastly behavior of the Wehrmacht on the eastern front. But most of it comes from a framing of that war as primarily a war against Russians and thus any opposition to Russian preeminence in Eastern Europe can be framed as Naziism, in this telling the Jews were targeted not for being Jews but rather as Soviet citizens.  This tendency got more entrenched over time but started during the war as Stalin realized Russians would fight for Mother Russia and icons but cared rather less about the Revolution and Communism.

Interestingly, previous generations before Putin talked about fighting “fascists” more than they talked about “Nazis,” Putin shifted these terms as he realized that “Nazi” was the worst thing a Westerner could imagine. And they NEVER talked about fighting the “Germans” as in popular American or British discourse because the East Germans had to be brought into the fold of brotherly socialist peoples— Bonn was the heir to fascism and Nazisim.

[bolverk 29637]

Never heard of the Weimar Triangle before.

Poland, France and Germany vow to make Europe stronger as fears grow over Russia and Trump

PARIS (AP) — The governments of Poland, France and Germany vowed Monday to make Europe a security and defense power with a greater ability to back Ukraine, as fears grow that former U.S. President Donald Trump might return to the White House and allow Russia to expand its aggression on the continent.

The foreign ministers of the three countries met in the Paris suburb of La Celle-Saint-Cloud to have talks about Ukraine, amid other issues. They discussed reviving the so-called Weimar Triangle, a long dormant regional grouping that was designed to promote cooperation between France, Germany and Poland.

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, who met with French President Emmanuel Macron in Paris and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz in Berlin on Monday, said he wanted to “revitalize” his nation’s relations with its key European partners.

“There is no reason why we should be so clearly militarily weaker than Russia, and therefore increasing production and intensifying our cooperation are absolutely indisputable priorities,” Tusk said in arguing for the European Union to become “a military power” in its own right.

The diplomatic push came after Trump shocked many in Europe over the weekend by appearing to invite Russia to invade any NATO member not spending enough on its own defense.

“‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” Trump recounted telling an unidentified NATO member during his presidency. “‘No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”

The Republican front-runner’s words at a campaign rally were particularly shocking for front-line NATO countries like Poland, which experienced both German and Soviet occupation during World War II and later spent decades under Soviet control. Anxieties run high there over the ongoing war just across Poland’s eastern border.

Speaking alongside Tusk in Berlin, Scholz blasted Trump’s comments.

“NATO’s promise of protection is unrestricted — ‘all for one and one for all,’” Scholz said without mentioning the former president by name. “And let me say clearly for current reasons: Any relativization of NATO’s support guarantee is irresponsible and dangerous, and is in the interest of Russia alone.”

“No one can play, or ‘deal,’ with Europe’s security,” the chancellor added.

Earlier Monday, Scholz inaugurated a new ammunition factory, underlining Europe’s efforts to ramp up weapons production.

Tusk also urged European nations to invest more in military projects in order “to achieve as quickly as possible… in the next dozen or so months, much greater air defense capabilities, much greater production capabilities in terms of ammunition.”

Asked about Trump’s remarks, Tusk said they “should act like a cold shower for all those who continue to underestimate this increasingly real threat which Europe is facing.”

Macron, speaking alongside Tusk in Paris, said Europe’s will “to further supply and meet Ukrainian needs is crucial,” after leaders of the 27 EU member nations sealed a deal to provide Ukraine with 50 billion euros ($54 billion) in support for its war-ravaged economy.

This “will enable us to make from Europe a security and defense power that is both complementary to NATO and a pillar of the Atlantic alliance, Macron said.

Trump’s remarks raised concerns that if reelected, he could embolden Russia to attack other countries besides Ukraine. NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg issued a statement Sunday saying that Trump’s remarks put American troops and their allies at greater risk.

NATO does not require its 31 members to pay bills, but they are expected to invest a certain percentage of their own budgets — ideally, 2 percent of their gross domestic product — on defense.

Some countries, like Poland, have long met the target. Other European nations ramped up their military spending after Russia invaded Ukraine almost two years ago.

Germany, with a post-World War II political culture of military caution, was a frequent target of Trump’s ire during his presidency for falling short of the 2 percent target, But Berlin announced plans to step up military spending after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine and plans to hit the benchmark this year.

France’s military budget grew in recent years and reached the level of about 2 percent of GDP.

Tusk returned to power as prime minister of his central European nation in December after eight years of rule by a national conservative government that often took an antagonistic stance with European allies, particularly Germany. As a result, Warsaw’s influence in Europe diminished.

The Weimar Triangle was created in 1991 as Poland was emerging from decades of communism as a platform for political cooperation among the three nations.

Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski noted Monday that he and his French and German counterparts “meet at a dramatic, but also solemn moment.” Russian President Vladimir Putin “must not be allowed to win this war. We must fulfill our obligations toward Ukraine.”

French Foreign Minister Stéphane Séjourné said “each minute counts to get Europeans prepared to absorb the shock of a scenario that has been well described by Donald Trump.”

[Fastbreak 3971]

WW2 started when Germany AND Russia invaded Poland. Most people forget that detail.

[tx 3 putt 76800]

Damn

Edited February 13 by tx 3 putt

[tx 3 putt 76800]

 

[atomheartbevo 89603]

3 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

What do they mean when they say that?  Is it just the same as saying supporting the US is supporting Nazis because we have a couple thousand neoNazis? Or is there some policy they reference that is somehow Nazi-like eg genocidal?

3 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Putin said he invaded for De-Nazification. It’s dumb and easily disprovable,

@956 Worldwide touched on it better, but putting aside the antisemitism we associate with Nazis, there is a sentiment that Ukrainian nationalism (naziism) includes the belief that Ukraine is a separate nation from Russia. Putin talks about his  views on this “nationalism”. 

[Macanudo 12973]

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

WW2 started when Germany AND Russia invaded Poland. Most people forget that detail.

Um, there's a case to be made that it started in 1937 in China.

[Anastasis 23445]

Slavs were considered untermenschen (subhumans) by the Nazis. And relatedly, the soviets as jewish-bolshevik subhumans.  

[Fastbreak 3971]

Um, there's a case to be made that it started in 1937 in China.

For sure.

Or 1919 in a palace outside of Paris.

[troph 24766]

48 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

@956 Worldwide touched on it better, but putting aside the antisemitism we associate with Nazis, there is a sentiment that Ukrainian nationalism (naziism) includes the belief that Ukraine is a separate nation from Russia. Putin talks about his  views on this “nationalism”. 

different kinda nationalism. different, not same. not same same at all.

[TeeDubya 3361]

3 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

WW2 started when Germany AND Russia invaded Poland. Most people forget that detail.

in the Hall of Mirrors in the Palace of Versailles

[atomheartbevo 89603]

10 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Russian disinformation campaigns were perhaps the most successful, cost-effective military operation in human history.  They damned near brought down the most powerful country in the world, and they still have a shot at doing so.  Oh, and millions of our fellow Americans are willing accomplices.

These Americans woild have sided with the Brits during the Revolution.

[cactusflinthead 27597]

Let me help you there Anne. It's because of an orange faced traitor.

[TeeDubya 3361]

Ukraine sunk the Russian Navy's large landing ship Caesar Kunikov with naval drones.  That's a 350' ship with a crew of 100. 

 

 

[elfenix 34218]

russian submarine force increases by 1

[Anastasis 23445]

David Frum AND Anne Applebaum. JFC. 

[RomaVicta 29878]

On 2/10/2024 at 2:06 PM, atomheartbevo said:

You ask what road the other goblin would say to take and then take the opposite.

 

I would ask one if I had four arms.

[DDD Dad 14313]

6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

These Americans woild have sided with the Brits during the Revolution.

My ancestors apparently did (and moved to Canada). 

[Nivek 16913]

13 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

These Americans woild have sided with the Brits during the Revolution.

They want Trump to be a king.  They are the real American Patriots.  Just like Washington.

[YGIFS 19449]

Cross-posting this from the DT thread, which I'm not sure I'm doing correctly but here goes:

 

I was thinking about this book the other day and Russia.  It's a wonderfully written novel by Russian author, Bulkagov called "The Master and Margarita" (our English translation).  It's probably not been read by 89% of Americans and 99% of Americans who oppose supporting Ukraine.  If you believe, as the Christianity claims, that the Devil is all around us and we must cast him out from our lives because he fools us into doing evil things.  You would do well to read it instead of just preaching to us about how the Devil has taken over our country and maybe even our planet.  

Long story, short (too late, Lobo).  The Devil takes on myriad forms throughout history from Ancient Rome to Christianity to eventually threatening the very existence of the Russian hierarchy.  He uses Russia against her enemies and her enemies against Russia.  It even forecasts that Russian evils (the book was eventually embargo'd by the USSR) will eventually be accentuated by even more powerful forces outside her borders (it obviously doesn't explicitly mention the United States but one could easily supplant that idea upon some of his metaphors and amalgamations).  One can also obviously see how Putin is a version of a few of the characters, though they are long and tired Russian fictional tropes.  But the trick is, seeing who the Devil can also be who you don't see coming.  If you really believe what your church and your bible tells you about how evil comes in the form of someone offering you comfort and validation if you'll only just support this unjust cause over here in my other hand...that's the true work of evil genius.  Be careful when you pull a lever for allowing Russia to expand this theater.  For the Devil is not the obvious guy committing the heinous acts, but instead could very well be the charismatic other guy who convinces us to look the other way while it's happening.  

You'll most likely know the story better in its more modern, and samba-like incarnation.  Pleased to meet you.  Hope you guessed my name?  

[956 Worldwide 34675]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

They want Trump to be a king.  They are the real American Patriots.  Just like Washington.

[Woland 730]

Cross-posting this from the DT thread, which I'm not sure I'm doing correctly but here goes:
 

I was thinking about this book the other day and Russia.  It's a wonderfully written novel by Russian author, Bulkagov called "The Master and Margarita" (our English translation).  It's probably not been read by 89% of Americans and 99% of Americans who oppose supporting Ukraine.  If you believe, as the Christianity claims, that the Devil is all around us and we must cast him out from our lives because he fools us into doing evil things.  You would do well to read it instead of just preaching to us about how the Devil has taken over our country and maybe even our planet.  

Long story, short (too late, Lobo).  The Devil takes on myriad forms throughout history from Ancient Rome to Christianity to eventually threatening the very existence of the Russian hierarchy.  He uses Russia against her enemies and her enemies against Russia.  It even forecasts that Russian evils (the book was eventually embargo'd by the USSR) will eventually be accentuated by even more powerful forces outside her borders (it obviously doesn't explicitly mention the United States but one could easily supplant that idea upon some of his metaphors and amalgamations).  One can also obviously see how Putin is a version of a few of the characters, though they are long and tired Russian fictional tropes.  But the trick is, seeing who the Devil can also be who you don't see coming.  If you really believe what your church and your bible tells you about how evil comes in the form of someone offering you comfort and validation if you'll only just support this unjust cause over here in my other hand...that's the true work of evil genius.  Be careful when you pull a lever for allowing Russia to expand this theater.  For the Devil is not the obvious guy committing the heinous acts, but instead could very well be the charismatic other guy who convinces us to look the other way while it's happening.  

You'll most likely know the story better in its more modern, and samba-like incarnation.  Pleased to meet you.  Hope you guessed my name?  

Great book, I’m biased.

[YGIFS 19449]

You're biased?  Lemme guess.  Because you've been around for a long, long year?  Stole many a man's soul and faith?  

I doubt you'll recall, but we met once in Toledo, Spain.  Outside the Basilica Cathedral.  

[HenryJames 65969]

[956 Worldwide 34675]

Woland (and maybe @Woland) is a very gnostic Satan who serves as much an agent of cosmic or even divine justice as he does a tempter or destructive force. His errand in Moscow is first to test the courage and integrity of Margarita and second to see how an officially atheist people react when the actual devil appears in their midst (the authorities successfully explain everything away).  He also metes out death to a NKVD informant.  The party where that happens was based on what Bulgalov had heard went on at Spasso House, the American ambassador’s residence. 

Master and Margarita is the greatest 20th century Russian novel and maybe top 5 period. It’s all about good and evil and integrity and courage. Heart of a Dog is the cutting political work by Bulgakov. 
 

 

Edited February 15 by 956 Worldwide

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20387]

'Cause every girl's crazy 'bout a sharp-dressed man!


 

[TeeDubya 3361]

25 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

'Cause every girl's crazy 'bout a sharp-dressed man!


 

Brioni suits run around 5,000-7,000 USD, cashmere around 10,000 USD

 

Edited February 16 by TeeDubya

[956 Worldwide 34675]

It’s very likely that Putin is the wealthiest person in the history of the planet. 

[TeeDubya 3361]

14 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It’s very likely that Putin is the wealthiest person in the history of the planet. 

without question.

[956 Worldwide 34675]

ChatGPT, please write the dumbest fucking tweet you can about Navalny’s death. 
 

 

[tx 3 putt 76800]

 

[tx 3 putt 76800]

 

[elfenix 34218]

The way I’m reading this is that McCaul has a lot of contempt for the Putin wing

Quote

The GOP chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee was bullish Friday on the chamber delivering U.S. military assistance to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan, despite the “brainwashing” of some within his caucus who oppose foreign spending because of the crisis at the southern border.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4473343-mccaul-johnson-ukraine-aid-floor-vote/

[Pescado_Rojo 19404]

At this point I think Mike Johnson is Russia’s best military commander 

[YGIFS 19449]

36 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

At this point I think Mike Johnson is Russia’s best military commander 

While true, not gonna be at all surprised when he is frag'd by his own troops later this year.

[MisterP 127]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/14/europe/putin-biden-better-for-russia-than-trump-intl/index.html

This should ruffle up some feathers 😁