Ukraine War

[Gengs1 2583]

Well now,

Germany has also woken up and started to get its military funded, they doubled or tripled their funding, I think 200 billion in 22, in other news, Poland just shit themselves 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Gengs1

[David Dennison 18608]

14 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

WOW.

 

This folks, this is what it looks like when the United States and it's leadership is respected.  

[cactusflinthead 27593]

 

[Dahobbs 17420]

Just now, TexArcher said:

Sure they have a choice.  They can sit there peacefully and make a shitload of money selling natural gas to Europe and wheat to the whole world.  It's not as if NATO is baiting them into this shit.

Putin isn't wrong about one thing. We have a shit ton of missiles around his country and aimed at his country. And that hasn't changed despite the collapse of the Soviet Union. I get that we feel like we aren't going to just attack Russia. But that isn't how it feels to Russians. And they are justified in feeling that way. We need a way to breakthrough that. Again, what's our end game? Starting a dialogue where it becomes clear NATO doesn't exist to get Russia, and that a different Russia would be welcomed, is critical to avoiding catastrophe (sooner or later). 

[TexArcher 37455]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Putin isn't wrong about one thing. We have a shit ton of missiles around his country and aimed at his country. And that hasn't changed despite the collapse of the Soviet Union. I get that we feel like we aren't going to just attack Russia. But that isn't how it feels to Russians. And they are justified in feeling that way. We need a way to breakthrough that. Again, what's our end game? Starting a dialogue where it becomes clear NATO doesn't exist to get Russia, and that a different Russia would be welcomed, is critical to avoiding catastrophe (sooner or later). 

If Russian leaders think NATO is out to get them, it's because they're paranoid as fuck and because they're out to get everyone else so they expect that from others because it's how they're wired.  NATO is a self-defense organization that has never threatened Russia in any way.  If Russia would stay in their lane, they could exist for a thousand years next to NATO and there would never be a problem.  The only reason Russia views NATO as a threat is because Russia has no intention of staying in their lane, obviously.

We're just not gonna agree on this.  Russia has no business in NATO.  Russia is the main reason NATO is still required in 2022.

[Hagbard Celine 10734]

RTX is up 4%

[cactusflinthead 27593]

Fuck Putin

[Sbbruin 21697]

As a kid who grew up with a singular enemy, the Soviet Union and the Red Scourge, this whole thing has made me a bit nostalgic.  It’s good to have those assholes back in our crosshairs.  Let’s all watch “Miracle” to fire ourselves up.

[T-shirt Sip 2096]

4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

First response 

 

[henrygandorf 29174]

9 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

If Russian leaders think NATO is out to get them, it's because they're paranoid as fuck and because they're out to get everyone else so they expect that from others because it's how they're wired.

 

[brakeman 28214]

[Sbbruin 21697]

6 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Fuck Putin

It seems so simple, doesn’t it?  

[cactusflinthead 27593]

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

It seems so simple, doesn’t it?  

Yet, here we are. Buttercream is in MTG's district. We saw the official GOP tweet a little bit ago. We aren't going to see Reps singing the anthem. Rubio, Romney, and Liz Cheney. Anyone else?

[brakeman 28214]

[RomaVicta 29756]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

It's brilliant leadership and collaboration. Fuck the insecure, pimply, adolescent-brained fuckwads that have to see the US strutting out in front. This ain't how it's done:

 

Russian-owned Trump (and GQP), go fuck yourself!

 

[Gengs1 2583]

The Russian mail order brides gonna be virtually free soon, the right wing males may actually get wives soon, Tim pool will be happy 

[henrygandorf 29174]

19 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Fuck Putin

what if i don't want them to put their party aside?  what if i want them to continue to show their ass?

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

Where’s that Putin apologist Sack?  We should fatwa his ass.  It doesn’t fix much but I’d feel better.  Fuck him and his ilk.  

Edited February 28, 2022 by ChiTownDoc

[cactusflinthead 27593]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

what if i don't want them to put their party aside?  what if i want them to continue to show their ass?

Well, there is that. They seem to be quite willing to do so.

[Satchel 6908]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, I certainly don't think anyone else should strike first.  That said, there needs to be (and I expect there is) actions behind the scenes to get him ousted, preferably in the most permanent way.  The financial noose the west is tightening on Russia makes that an increasingly more likely possibility.

Yeah. The Russian people will have to make the most of this can’t miss opportunity. And they must not miss.

[brakeman 28214]

Maybe this goes in here.

 

[Dahobbs 17420]

40 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

If Russian leaders think NATO is out to get them, it's because they're paranoid as fuck and because they're out to get everyone else so they expect that from others because it's how they're wired.  NATO is a self-defense organization that has never threatened Russia in any way.  If Russia would stay in their lane, they could exist for a thousand years next to NATO and there would never be a problem.  The only reason Russia views NATO as a threat is because Russia has no intention of staying in their lane, obviously.

We're just not gonna agree on this.  Russia has no business in NATO.  Russia is the main reason NATO is still required in 2022.

No, it's because a shit ton of nuclear missiles are pointed at them. NATO exists to fight Russia. That's just the truth. We need to admit that. And if we can't move beyond that, then there is no way out but one or both not existing anymore. 

We aren't going to get the Russian people to replace Putin with anything besides another Putin unless we change. I think opening that door Russian membership with NATO instead of in opposition to NATO is exactly what is needed.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Dahobbs

[brakeman 28214]

[Shaddie 1634]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No, it's because a shit ton of nuclear missiles are pointed at them. NATO exists to fight Russia. That's just the truth. We need to admit that. And if we can't move beyond that, then there is no way out but one or both not existing anymore. 

We aren't going to get the Russian people to replace Putin with anything besides another Putin unless we change. I think opening that door Russian membership with NATO instead of in opposition to NATO is exactly what is needed.

It’s simple. Never turn your back on a dog that is growling at you until IT relaxes its position. Can you show me a time when this dog hasn’t bared its teeth at us?

[Dahobbs 17420]

3 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

It’s simple. Never turn your back on a dog that is growling at you until IT relaxes its position. Can you show me a time when this dog hasn’t bared its teeth at us?

That goes both ways. 

Look, I'm not saying disarm and ignore Russia. I'm saying tell the Russian people that we don't have to be enemies, in fact, we can be allies. All you have to do is get rid of this shit stain and then let's talk. Isn't that what we want? 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

Admitting Russia into NATO is the dumbest idea I have ever heard.  It's literally antithetical to the mission.

[Shaddie 1634]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

That goes both ways. 

Look, I'm not saying disarm and ignore Russia. I'm saying tell the Russian people that we don't have to be enemies, in fact, we can be allies. All you have to do is get rid of this shit stain and then let's talk. Isn't that what we want? 

Yes we want that. Let us know when they have a democratic government. 

[Satchel 6908]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That goes both ways. 

Look, I'm not saying disarm and ignore Russia. I'm saying tell the Russian people that we don't have to be enemies, in fact, we can be allies. All you have to do is get rid of this shit stain and then let's talk. Isn't that what we want? 

Here’s President Obama’s Russia Reset Fact Sheet. How many resets do we need to understand that Russia, with Putin at the helm, is not an honest broker:

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/us-russia-relations-reset-fact-sheet

[Dahobbs 17420]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Admitting Russia into NATO is the dumbest idea I have ever heard.  It's literally antithetical to the mission.

That's my fucking point. As long as NATO's mission is to fight Russia, the Russian people have no choice but to embrace people like Putin. How do y'all not see that? Let's give them another option, or at least the hope of one. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

4 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Here’s President Obama’s Russia Reset Fact Sheet. How many resets do we need to understand that Russia, with Putin at the helm, is not an honest broker:

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/us-russia-relations-reset-fact-sheet

The whole fucking premise of my proposal is that they get rid of Putin. We want the Russian people to do that. Let's give them an incentive. Right now they don't have a realistic alternative because we have them surrounded by the largest military machine to ever exist, with it's sole purpose being to fight Russia. 

Fuck, I'm not saying do it right now. I'm saying start that discussion. Let the Russian people know we aren't against them. We can be on the same side if they just get rid of Putin. But if NATO must always be the no Russia club, then we can never have a constructive relationship with Russia. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Dahobbs

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

19 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

It’s simple. Never turn your back on a dog that is growling at you until IT relaxes its position. Can you show me a time when this dog hasn’t bared its teeth at us?

WWII?

[TexArcher 37455]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's my fucking point. As long as NATO's mission is to fight Russia, the Russian people have no choice but to embrace people like Putin. How do y'all not see that? 

No one is agreeing with that because it's a straw man.  NATO's mission is not, and has never been, to fight Russia.

That's like saying my home security system's mission is to hunt down burglars.

[Shaddie 1634]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's my fucking point. As long as NATO's mission is to fight Russia, the Russian people have no choice but to embrace people like Putin. How do y'all not see that? Let's give them another option, or at least the hope of one. 

U keep saying that and we agree. Give us a plan that involves us turning NATO downward BEFORE they make the a move. 
You don’t seem to realize Despots keep power by having a built in enemy. 
Why do you think Iran and NK constantly run programs saying USA is their enemy. 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's my fucking point. As long as NATO's mission is to fight Russia, the Russian people have no choice but to embrace people like Putin. How do y'all not see that? Let's give them another option, or at least the hope of one. 

There's no reason to believe that they would replace Putin with a carbon copy.  Yeltsin, Medvedev, Gorbachev, Krushchev, etc. were all different.  The financial screws are our best bet.

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

The whole fucking premise of my proposal is that they get rid of Putin. We want the Russian people to do that. Let's give them an incentive. Right now they don't have a realistic alternative because we have them surrounded by the largest military machine to ever exist, with it's sole purpose being to fight Russia. 

Fuck, I'm not saying do it right now. I'm saying start that discussion. Let the Russian people know we aren't against them. We can be on the same side if they just get rid of Putin. But if NATO must always be the no Russia club, then we can never have a constructive relationship with Russia. 

Why have we never attacked Russia? We’ve spent decades building an army designed to defeat them. If we’re such a threat to them, why haven’t we invaded them? We could’ve done that before they had nukes, when we did, but we didn’t do that. Why?

I don’t agree with your assessment. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

No one is agreeing with that because it's a straw man.  NATO's mission is not, and has never been, to fight Russia.

That's like saying my home security system's mission is to hunt down burglars.

Dude, NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union. That's just the way it is. That shouldn't be controversial. Here:

Quote

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was created in 1949 by the United States, Canada, and several Western European nations to provide collective security against the Soviet Union

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/nato

Just now, Shaddie said:

U keep saying that and we agree. Give us a plan that involves us turning NATO downward BEFORE they make the a move. 
You don’t seem to realize Despots keep power by having a built in enemy. 
Why do you think Iran and NK constantly run programs saying USA is their enemy. 

What? The entirety of my plan is just to let the Russian people know that they need not be enemies with NATO. We would be open to membership if Russia replaces Putin and changes its behavior. I'm not suggesting we do anything else but make that message known. I want the Russian people to know they options other than Putin or annihilation. 

[pyrohornIII 4801]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

Fuck Putin

There are a lot of good people out there who still get to learn how many of our politicians are owned by Putin and his goons.   I guess I keep repeating it, because there are guys like this who think people like Hawley and Cruz and many more aren't tied to nationalistic shit like Putin pushes.   Folks who just haven't been paying attention the past 4 years and are coming to the table now.  They've got a lot of catching up to do.   I know this guy is more aware than most, but still, this seems pretty naive to me.

I'm with henrygandorf on this.  Let them keep exposing themselves every damn day.  They never have had any conviction other than winning office and holding it.   Fuck em.  Let them expose themselves, and those idiots who prop them up, be they MAGA turds or Insurrectionists or whomever.  This is a litmus test for humanity and democracy.  Time to clean house.   

Edited February 28, 2022 by pyrohornIII

[Dahobbs 17420]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Why have we never attacked Russia? We’ve spent decades building an army designed to defeat them. If we’re such a threat to them, why haven’t we invaded them? We could’ve done that before they had nukes, when we did, but we didn’t do that. Why?

I don’t agree with your assessment. 

Why has Russia never attacked us? They've spent decades building an army designed to defeat us. If they are such a threat, why haven't they invaded us? 

I don't think you even understand my assessment. It is historical fact that NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union. It is a fact that NATO has surrounded Russia with nuclear missiles. But, I know we don't intend to use them except in self defense. My point is that it doesn't feel that way to Russians. Let's give them some hope of something different so that they replace Putin. If we aren't willing to do that, then we might as well just start the fireworks because it's all leading to the same place.  

[TexArcher 37455]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Dude, NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union. That's just the way it is. That shouldn't be controversial. Here:

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/nato

What? The entirety of my plan is just to let the Russian people know that they need not be enemies with NATO. We would be open to membership if Russia replaces Putin and changes its behavior. I'm not suggesting we do anything else but make that message known. I want the Russian people to know they options other than Putin or annihilation. 

I know what NATO is, dude.

I'm not entirely sure you do if you actually believe that "NATO's mission is to fight Russia."

That is patently false.

But I'm done with this conversation.  Have fun inviting the bandit into the castle, and so on.

 

[SizzleChest 8275]

25 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Admitting Russia into NATO is the dumbest idea I have ever heard.  It's literally antithetical to the mission.

You mean like how Germany was never part of NATO?

I keed, I keed.  But there could be some interesting things happen as China digs in over the next 20-30 years.

[Nivek 16808]

Imagine the force it takes to do this?
 
 

Are their tanks made out of bronze? They are getting obliterated.

[Shaddie 1634]

Ok dahobbs 

We will ask very nicely that their media for the last 75 years quit broadcasting mean things about us. 
 

You ask a well adjusted Russian and they probably don’t think USA wants to hurt them. Just as in this country about half or more are not well adjusted. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

I know what NATO is, dude.

I'm not entirely sure you do if you actually believe that "NATO's mission is to fight Russia."

That is patently false.

But I'm done with this conversation.  Have fun inviting the bandit into the castle, and so on.

 

I have no idea how you define NATO as anything other than an entity designed to fight back against Russian aggression. I know it is defensive in purpose.

And I'm not saying bring Russia in, right now, no conditions asked. I'm saying let the Russian people know that we can be allies if their country changes. Why would that be bad? Why would it be and to have Russia as an ally at some point in the future? Why must we have this fatalistic view that Russia can never be a part of NATO? 

 

[The Ace of Aces 5106]

Speaking of NATO, right now tens of millions of Europeans sure are glad Trump’s continued attempts to kill it on behalf of Putin failed. 

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

11 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Dude, NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union.

Defense, not offense. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

1 minute ago, Shaddie said:

Ok dahobbs 

We will ask very nicely that their media for the last 75 years quit broadcasting mean things about us. 
 

You ask a well adjusted Russian and they probably don’t think USA wants to hurt them. Just as in this country about half or more are not well adjusted. 

What's your end goal Shaddie? Like, 50 years from now, should we still be having the same nuclear stand off with Russia? Should we still have nuclear missiles pointed at each other constantly? Is there no room for maybe hoping for something different? 

Russia needs to change. But 70 years of nuclear tension has just led us back again to the precipice of global annihilation. Let's try something new. Short term, my plan maybe creates a window for some general to off Putin. Long term, maybe we can stop this stupid dance. 

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Why has Russia never attacked us?

You think they haven’t? Seriously?

[Brian Fantana 6654]

8 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I know what NATO is, dude.

I'm not entirely sure you do if you actually believe that "NATO's mission is to fight Russia."

That is patently false.

But I'm done with this conversation.  Have fun inviting the bandit into the castle, and so on.

 

I'm not sure you could point to any other organization that is more of a "fuck Russia club" than NATO.

[SizzleChest 8275]

 

[Neonmoon 38127]

It’s going to take a long time to remove the Russian tentacles from the GOP.