Ukraine War

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

14 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

How about one of them goes and jabs an ice pick or at least a ballpoint into Lavrov’s ear instead?

Sounds great but Lavrov wasn’t actually there, b/c he’s banned from EU airspace.

[BigHorn'13 3494]

15 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Someone’s gonna get censured. 

Still can't get over the irony in Romney's presidential debate comments about Russia in 2012, and the general scoff in which he received for them. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

I'm sure Ewok's computer machinery gift is nice and all, but I would have had a LOT more respect for him had he used his fortune to outbid all comers for the services of Erik Prince's private gang and

EITHER

A) Popped Putin

OR

B) One-by-one began using Russian oligarchs as bait for the creatures in the Marianas trench. Would not take too many expeditions for the message to become crystal clear.

For Musk, he may lose a few acquaintances on the party circuit but he also loses some competition so win-win there.

And it does make one wonder, where in the world is Erik Prince right now anyway?

[jimmyjazz 47196]

9 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Still can't get over the irony in Romney's presidential debate comments about Russia in 2012, and the general scoff in which he received for them. 

Well, let's tell the whole truth.  We were neck deep in Afghanistan at the time, so it could be argued that Russia was NOT our biggest foe, and then Romney undercut his own stance by sucking off Trump the moment Trump won the election.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, let's tell the whole truth.  We were neck deep in Afghanistan at the time, so it could be argued that Russia was NOT our biggest foe, and then Romney undercut his own stance by sucking off Trump the moment Trump won the election.

He voted to convict twice which is more any other Republican can say. 

[Horn80 6359]

4 hours ago, TexLonghorn said:

I continue to be impressed by the Ukrainian people and their fight. 

See these two tweets - Car occupants doing a drive-by molotov cocktailing of a broken down russian tank that is being towed back (passenger even accidentally sets herself on fire for a second while doing it).

And then second tweet showing where to throw the molotov cocktails on different types of russian vehicles.

 

Brings new meaning to happy hour.

[6th Street 6692]

I have nothing against Mitt. He seems like one of the last remaining sane members of the GOP. His undoing was that stupid "corporations are people too, my friend" comment. 

[TexArcher 39072]

I love the Ukrainians for their resolve and I'm rooting hard for them.

But I'm afraid this is about to go from bad to fucking awful for them when that convoy gets there.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

I love the Ukrainians for their resolve and I'm rooting hard for them.

But I'm afraid this is about to go from bad to fucking awful for them when that convoy gets there.

what's frustrating is that the convoy is an absolute joke if you've got the right weapons.  we have to sit here handcuffed to help on something that wouldn't be more than 10 minutes of work.

[henrygandorf 29225]

38 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

what's frustrating is that the convoy is an absolute joke if you've got the right weapons.  we have to sit here handcuffed to help on something that wouldn't be more than 10 minutes of work.

on cnn last night, clapper was saying that seeing the convoy makes “you drool” over how easy it would be to take out. horrible convoy discipline, etc. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by henrygandorf

[TexArcher 39072]

58 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

what's frustrating is that the convoy is an absolute joke if you've got the right weapons.  we have to sit here handcuffed to help on something that wouldn't be more than 10 minutes of work.

Seriously.  I know nothing about how to convoy military equipment, but they sure do look like sitting ducks for drone strikes or cruise missiles or whatever, all bunched together in a line like that.

[horn4life 3838]

1 hour ago, 6th Street said:

I have nothing against Mitt. He seems like one of the last remaining sane members of the GOP. His undoing was that stupid "corporations are people too, my friend" comment. 

I would say it was more the "binders full of women." 

 

[Red Five 41738]

1 minute ago, horn4life said:

I would say it was more the "binders full of women." 

 

The whole "I don't care about 47% of you" thing on camera was pretty bad. Mitt was kind of like Hillary in that they both would have been better presidents than candidates for president. 

[Anastasis 23718]

2 minutes ago, Red Five said:

The whole "I don't care about 47% of you" thing on camera was pretty bad. Mitt was kind of like Hillary in that they both would have been better presidents than candidates for president. 

I think that Romney is a good bet on predictit for GOP nomination. Not saying in any way that he will win, but you could pick up shares @ 2 cents yesterday and if he decides to take a crack at it could easily run to 2 digits. Seems like one of the only adults in the room on that side.  Which means he doesn't have a chance, but still might take a swing at it.  

[Huckleberry 34647]

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

what's frustrating is that the convoy is an absolute joke if you've got the right weapons.  we have to sit here handcuffed to help on something that wouldn't be more than 10 minutes of work.

I've been wondering how all of the military and civilian leadership brainpower on the right side of this situation can't come up with a method to deal with the convoy while maintaining plausible deniability of direct involvement. Even though it seems it's about to happen I still can't believe that convoy is going to get to Kyiv unmolested. 

[Huckleberry 34647]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I think that Romney is a good bet on predictit for GOP nomination. Not saying in any way that he will win, but you could pick up shares @ 2 cents yesterday and if he decides to take a crack at it could easily run to 2 digits. Seems like one of the only adults in the room on that side.  Which means he doesn't have a chance, but still might take a swing at it.  

Agreed, that's a great play to buy in early and low. Just have to time your sale for right after the great early media coverage and just before the trogloright* takes him down. 

* - copyright 2022 all rights reserved

[Dutchrudder 11243]

3 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Still can't get over the irony in Romney's presidential debate comments about Russia in 2012, and the general scoff in which he received for them. 

And then Russia invades Crimea not even 2 years later...

If you go back and watch that clip, I think it was a bit of a misunderstanding of the words. Romney said Russia was our greatest "Geopolitical" threat, which he likely meant more as an organized government/country threat. Obama's response was simply "ISIS is our biggest threat" and nobody would really argue with that in 2012. Both of those answers can be true at the same time, but given the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan, ISIS was certainly the more obvious issue. Obama was just better at throwing the answer in Mitt's face to score debate points, and Mitt just wasn't savvy enough to talk his way through it. Plus Russia had been on the backburner for a while post-9/11, so I don't think many Americans were really concerned with them.         

[Native Horn 3581]

5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I've been wondering how all of the military and civilian leadership brainpower on the right side of this situation can't come up with a method to deal with the convoy while maintaining plausible deniability of direct involvement. Even though it seems it's about to happen I still can't believe that convoy is going to get to Kyiv unmolested. 

A real damned-if-you-do, fucked-if-you-don't type situation.

[wildcat09 29579]

5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I've been wondering how all of the military and civilian leadership brainpower on the right side of this situation can't come up with a method to deal with the convoy while maintaining plausible deniability of direct involvement. Even though it seems it's about to happen I still can't believe that convoy is going to get to Kyiv unmolested. 

Maybe the solution is just to buy the convoy:

 

 

[horn4life 3838]

11 minutes ago, Red Five said:

The whole "I don't care about 47% of you" thing on camera was pretty bad. Mitt was kind of like Hillary in that they both would have been better presidents than candidates for president. 

Now that figure of 47% can be applied to the Percent of the GOP supporting Putin more than Biden.  (it's fallen to that level since the war started 😉 )

[jimmyjazz 47196]

If that convoy were headed up by Good 'Murican Truckers, they wouldn't be quitting.  Freedumb!

[Mdhorn 6166]

13 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

This is just the opening drive. The pick 6 was fun, but Ukraine has a long ass way to go before the W

Well, Ukraine's got the home field advantage and the free world's fan base cheering them on.  

[Celery Man 21098]

13 hours ago, Deej said:

 

more accurately

 

trogloright is great, unfortunately it will fly over their empty fucking heads

[Mdhorn 6166]

16 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Maybe the solution is just to buy the convoy:

 

 

Putin is going to use nukes isn't he?  And Sean Penn better not let that happen.  

[wildcat09 29579]

4 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Putin is going to use nukes isn't he?  And Sean Penn better not let that happen.  

Well, the last time large parts of the Russian military refused en masse to fight, it ended up resulting in the Tsar and his entire family being brutally executed. So...Putin has nothing to worry about and things are great, is what I'm saying.

[Ojo Rojo 2054]

10 hours ago, Updawg said:

Or start ww3

Or accept negotiated terms to save face.  Something like Ukraine won't enter NATO for ten years or somesuch.  Throw in a gas pipeline to Germany or two.

[Gil Bang 26239]

45 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

If that convoy were headed up by Good 'Murican Truckers, they wouldn't be quitting.  Freedumb!

*only if they have a fat gofundme

[RomaVicta 30585]

Last night I was thinking about this road full of targets. I wondered if we could have a drone fly over telling the Russian soldiers to flee their vehicles to avoid being killed. Then we blast the column in an almost humane way. And just flat out deny we did it just as Putin would do. 

Now, I wonder if just having the announcement drone fly over would do the trick and cause mass desertion.

Further, I watched some of the drone strike footage last night. The Ukes are pretty good at targeting the vehicle for the most bang for their buck. I think once they hit one of those hyperbaric gas missile trucks. Big results.

Now, I'm thinking of the Russians actually using those missiles against civililan targets and city buildings. Can we in good conscience not stop that from happening? Will we congratulate ourselves on lighing up our buildings in Ukraine national colors but sort of just not think about something real we should've done?

I remain conflicted about how far the US should go here. There must be some balance between calling Putin's bluff about nukes and starting a nuclear exchange. I profoundly do not want to watch the brave Ukrainians hammered by a massive, bloody, indiscriminate Russian assault.

What I don't know is what is already planned by the US and NATO. Could the flood of anti-vehicle and anti-aircraft weapons be decisive? Is that column already doomed? Are unhappy Russian conscripts not guarding it well enough to allow for an historic ambush?

I'll just have to see. We too often think we know everything out here in Internet Napoleon World. I want to believe that the decision makers of Europe and the US, who have done brilliant work so far, feel similarly that Russia's massive attack on Kyiv shoiuld not be allowed to happen.

That battle group must be disrupted or shattered. We will all hate ourselves if Puting uses horrific battlefield weapons on a city, and we could have stopped it.

I welcome those who will automatically respond that we shouldn't for fear of being nuked. That counterbalancing argument should never be ignored. But to what degree do we allow ourselves to submit to a threat that we ourselves can make?

This is all so interesting. I'm glad the Chinese are not taking material interest.

Edited March 1, 2022 by RomaVicta

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

50 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

And then Russia invades Crimea not even 2 years later...

If you go back and watch that clip, I think it was a bit of a misunderstanding of the words. Romney said Russia was our greatest "Geopolitical" threat, which he likely meant more as an organized government/country threat. Obama's response was simply "ISIS is our biggest threat" and nobody would really argue with that in 2012. Both of those answers can be true at the same time, but given the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan, ISIS was certainly the more obvious issue. Obama was just better at throwing the answer in Mitt's face to score debate points, and Mitt just wasn't savvy enough to talk his way through it. Plus Russia had been on the backburner for a while post-9/11, so I don't think many Americans were really concerned with them.         

Let’s be honest here  Mr Obama ridiculed Me. Romney  onstage for making such a stoopid  statement 

his Comment was the 1980s called they want their foreign-policy back a single  ignorant thing for him to say and showed that he had no idea what he was talking about when it came to Geo political politics

[wildcat09 29579]

You can just say "geopolitics." 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[RomaVicta 30585]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Let’s be honest here  Mr Obama ridiculed Me. Romney  onstage for making such a stoopid  statement 

his Comment was the 1980s called they want their foreign-policy back a single  ignorant thing for him to say and showed that he had no idea what he was talking about when it came to Geo political politics

Well, let's also be honest in the fact that Russia did not pose much of a threat to the United States at the time of that debate. Since then, Russia has developed a threat that Romney didn't anticipate: the capability to undermine western democratice institutions without firing a bullet.

Russia's attack of the Crimea and even Ukraine don't represent the immediate threats to the United States that terrorist organizations have proven they do. Romney's response wasn't "stoopid" or "ignorant" nor indicative that he "had no idea what he was talking about" as you feel compelled to say about Obama. Obama was right about material threat. Romney's response merely off in priority.

China would have been the best traditional geopolitical opponent to name back then and certainly now. Romney chose Russia which was and is a distant number 2.

[Chopper 17431]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

This doesn’t mean much but you still love to see it.  (It will likely take years to fully incorporate Ukraine into the EU, assuming there is still a Ukraine)

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1279]

It’s going to be strange when pro-Putin US troops go into Ukraine to help put down the insurgency in 2025.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

LOOOONG OVERDUE

[David Dennison 19538]

18 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Let’s be honest here  Mr Obama ridiculed Me. Romney  onstage for making such a stoopid  statement 

his Comment was the 1980s called they want their foreign-policy back a single  ignorant thing for him to say and showed that he had no idea what he was talking about when it came to Geo political politics

It wasn't ignorant, it was contrived. And it worked.

[Chopper 17431]

I've seen a couple reporters online correcting a couple important things - the 4 mile long convoy was 40 miles away from Kyiv - translation issues led to it being read as a 40 mile long convoy.

Also the issue of whether Ukraine was given possession of fighter jets is unreported at this moment. The report was based on a very specific response to a question and some took it to mean more than it did. The response was that NATO isn't going to allow NATO bases to be used to enforce a No Fly Zone, not that they weren't giving fighters to Ukraine.

edit - here's a politico europe reporter on the ambiguity

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Chopper

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Well, let's also be honest in the fact that Russia did not pose much of a threat to the United States at the time of that debate. Since then, Russia has developed a threat that Romney didn't anticipate: the capability to undermine western democratice institutions without firing a bullet.

Russia's attack of the Crimea and even Ukraine don't represent the immediate threats to the United States that terrorist organizations have proven they do. Romney's response wasn't "stoopid" or "ignorant" nor indicative that he "had no idea what he was talking about" as you feel compelled to say about Obama. Obama was right about material threat. Romney's response merely off in priority.

China would have been the best traditional geopolitical opponent to name back then and certainly now. Romney chose Russia which was and is a distant number 2.

No, you can stop right there my friend. Russia is the same threat now as it was then.  Even if their military isn't what people thought it was, they still have the most nukes in the world pointed at us, and their doctrine has not changed at all (it's just now been re revealed).

To even say they they weren't a threat wasn't wise as if Putin was watching he would have said sing it sister, yeah we aren't a threat to you at all just go on thinking that.  He probably cast his absentee ballot for Mr. Obama the next day.

Russia is, and was trying to defeat us thru any means available, behind the scenes or thru overt, oblique, military action the day Putin came on the scene .  His comment did in fact show extreme  naivete'.

Both of those mafia run states have plans to take over the world.  Russia is just more blunt force to the knee cap, and China's more subtle about it.

The posts from Dahobbs about Russia joining NATO while Pollyanna, and all nice, and I'd love for the Russian people to wake up from over 1,000 years of total non democratic rule (it ain't happening g right now at least). His wish is not much different in ignorance than Mr. Obamas statement back then.

Russia has been, and continues to be an authoritative, oppressive state since before the US was even a colony.  Their goal since Lenin came to power was world domination, and it's still a fantasy of theirs, and hadn't ceased to be (the Yeltsin years not withstanding) when Mr. Obama made that comment.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It wasn't ignorant, it was contrived. And it worked.

Whatever you say.

[27-25 2085]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

LOOOONG OVERDUE

A few days ago I sent a strongly worded note via customer support at DirecTV to do just this.  You're welcome.

Seriously, it is just mind boggling that a direct mouthpiece of a geopolitical rival had such access to begin with.

[Neonmoon 38130]

Russia democracy is going well 

 

[TreatyOak 17375]

I saw a documentary about Ivan the Terrible (and he was really lived up to his name-sheesh) and a Russian professor said something revealing. He said in Russia, the choice is never between democracy and authoritarianism. It's between authoritarianism and chaos, so they always go with authoritarianism. 

[Brisketexan 106897]

9 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Russia democracy is going well 

 

And his approach will absolutely work.

Until it doesn't.

[Hornius Emeritus 12804]

4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, let's tell the whole truth.  We were neck deep in Afghanistan at the time, so it could be argued that Russia was NOT our biggest foe, and then Romney undercut his own stance by sucking off Trump the moment Trump won the election.

Plus China was is actually our biggest geopolitical foe.

[C-Man 27779]

54 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Let’s be honest here  Mr Obama ridiculed Me. Romney  onstage for making such a stoopid  statement 

his Comment was the 1980s called they want their foreign-policy back a single  ignorant thing for him to say and showed that he had no idea what he was talking about when it came to Geo political politics

Obama was just playing the political game. It was a putdown, just one million times smoother than anything the next dipshit could come up with.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Plus China was is actually our biggest geopolitical foe.

From an economic domination thing yeah, from a military we wanna kill you thing no, it's Russia still.  China wants us as a valuable economic vassal state. Russia wants to crush us, and take over our country physically.

[Huckleberry 34647]

20 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

No, you can stop right there my friend. Russia is the same threat now as it was then.  Even if their military isn't what people thought it was, they still have the most nukes in the world pointed at us, and their doctrine has not changed at all (it's just now been re revealed).

To even say they they weren't a threat wasn't wise as if Putin was watching he would have said sing it sister, yeah we aren't a threat to you at all just go on thinking that.  He probably cast his absentee ballot for Mr. Obama the next day.

Russia is, and was trying to defeat us thru any means available, behind the scenes or thru overt, oblique, military action the day Putin came on the scene .  His comment did in fact show extreme  naivete'.

Both of those mafia run states have plans to take over the world.  Russia is just more blunt force to the knee cap, and China's more subtle about it.

The posts from Dahobbs about Russia joining NATO while Pollyanna, and all nice, and I'd love for the Russian people to wake up from over 1,000 years of total non democratic rule (it ain't happening g right now at least). His wish is not much different in ignorance than Mr. Obamas statement back then.

Russia has been, and continues to be an authoritative, oppressive state since before the US was even a colony.  Their goal since Lenin came to power was world domination, and it's still a fantasy of theirs, and hadn't ceased to be (the Yeltsin years not withstanding) when Mr. Obama made that comment.

I'm extremely surprised that you jumped in at the mention of Romney to take Barack Obama to task for comments made 10 years ago understating the threat Russia has always posed to the United States. 

Is there anything that's happened in the decade since, specifically with respect to Presidential candidates and Presidents, regarding US public acknowledgement of the threat Russia poses that you may have forgotten to mention every day for over half that decade? Anything at all? 

[Captainant 28538]

@workswithseed this is what censorship looks like. Prosecution and police at your door.

[wildcat09 29579]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

From an economic domination thing yeah, from a military we wanna kill you thing no, it's Russia still.  China wants us as a valuable economic vassal state. Russia wants to crush us, and take over our country physically.

lol