Ukraine War

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Just so we get it out there in plain language, y'all notice that literally every single position that is in Putin's interest, Immaculate Vibes/GRUHorn carries the banner, and has since he showed up on this board.  Y'all all see that, right?

We see you, GRU.  You think you're clever.  You're not.  You're as stupid and blind as your masters.

A truer statement has yet to be uttered on this board.

I mean the guy claims he lives in San Antonio yet prefers grocery shopping at wal mart over HEB. What more proof would you need that he’s a complete fraud? 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

My masters? Cmon. 
 

Disagreeing with any policies we have is not inherently pro-Putin. Speaking of propaganda, much of this board has been propagandized to think just that. Simplistic. 
 

Here’s a policy disagreement I have with our leaders here and in the West that is decidedly anti-Russia/Putin. 
 

The US and Western Europe should/should have maintained/pursued energy independence. If we’re not reliant on Russia for energy then he has less leverage geopolitically and his country is poorer. I would like that specifically. Weaken Russia while strengthening ourselves versus weakening Russia while weakening ourselves via undermining the USD. 

Quit farting in here. It’s really starting to stink. 

[bolverk 29394]

Re: Kremlin Kentucky Konnection

You guys do recall the aluminum plant investment that was made after McConnell & Rand voted to end Russian sanctions.

US Senate report says Russian investor in Braidy Industries' mill is a proxy for the Kremlin

A Russian company that has invested in Braidy Industries' planned aluminum rolling mill in Eastern Kentucky was identified as a proxy of the Kremlin in a new report the Senate Intelligence Committee released this week.

The Russian firm, United Co. Rusal, agreed last year to invest $200 million in the mill, which is expected to create hundreds of long-term jobs in a struggling region of the state if Braidy is able to raise enough financing to build the facility, which will cost well over $1.5 billion.

The Republican-led Senate committee released a report Tuesday that detailed extensive connections between President Donald Trump's 2016 campaign advisers and people with ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin's regime.

And it points to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska — a part-owner of Rusal, which is a major aluminum company that operates internationally — as a key figure.

The Senate committee's report, which examines Russian efforts to interfere in America's 2016 presidential election, says: "Deripaska's companies, including RUSAL, are proxies for the Kremlin, including for Russian government influence efforts, economic measures, and diplomatic relations."

The Courier Journal sent Braidy Industries a request for comment concerning the Senate committee's report. It also asked about the status of Rusal's investment in the mill, whether Braidy intends to continue its business relationship with that firm, and how Braidy's efforts to secure financing for the mill are proceeding.

Braidy — which recently brought a new acting president and CEO, Don Foster, on board — responded through a spokeswoman with the following statement: "Don Foster ... is hard at work every day, utilizing his expertise and expansive network built during his 40 years in the metals industry to finalize financing and build the mill in Ashland, KY."

A U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission report Braidy filed in June said Rusal had provided $75 million so far for the mill project as of Dec. 31, 2019, but had discontinued further contributions until Braidy secures another $300 million in funding. 

Kentucky's state government also has a financial stake in the mill's future, following a direct investment it made in Braidy in 2017. State officials, including Gov. Andy Beshear, have said they hope the mill project will succeed and create job opportunities in the commonwealth.

The U.S. government previously imposed sanctions on Rusal and its parent company, EN+ Group.

Rusal's decision to invest in Braidy's mill was announced in April 2019, a few months after the federal government lifted the sanctions against the Russian firm. Several Democrats in Congress quickly expressed concern about the planned investment.

The U.S. Senate voted down a measure opposing the plan to end the sanctions against Rusal and EN+ Group in January 2019. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, as well as Sen. Rand Paul, both Kentucky Republicans, voted against that attempt to keep the sanctions in place.

The Kentucky Democratic Party on Wednesday questioned McConnell's decision to support lifting the sanctions on Rusal, in light of the Senate Intelligence Committee report's identification of Rusal as a proxy for the Kremlin.

The Democratic Party also mentioned a 2019 Politico report about how two people who used to work on McConnell's staff lobbied the federal government on Braidy's behalf. 

Party spokeswoman Marisa McNee said McConnell needs to publicly explain what he knows concerning how Rusal became a vital source of funds for a project that will be built in the state he has represented in Congress for decades.

"It’s time for Moscow Mitch to tell the truth to the people of Kentucky. There are just too many unanswered questions, and too many people from McConnell’s orbit who have been exposed as playing a big role in this deal for him to continue to play dumb," McNee said. "What did he know, and when did he know it?"

Robert Steurer, a spokesman for McConnell, told The Courier Journal last year that the senator has said Rusal's investment in Braidy's mill did not play a role in his stance on the sanctions against the Russian company. And McConnell told reporters in May 2019 that his decision to support lifting the sanctions was unrelated to "anything that might happen in my home state."

Steurer said in an email Wednesday that previous comments McConnell has made about Rusal still stand. He also referred The Courier Journal to a statement McConnell released Tuesday that praised the Senate Intelligence Committee's members for keeping their investigation "out of the partisan spotlight and focused on the facts."

“The Committee’s findings, along with other information recently released by the Intelligence Community, confirm what we already knew: Russia, China, Iran, and other foreign actors want to influence our politics, interfere with our elections, and stoke fear and division among Americans," McConnell said.

Deripaska, the Rusal co-owner, pops up many times in the Senate committee's report.

The report says Paul Manafort — Trump's former campaign chairman — worked for Deripaska in the past and was in close contact with a Russian intelligence officer, Konstantin Kilimnik, whom the report describes as having been "Manafort's primary liaison to Deripaska ..." 

"The Committee found that Manafort's presence on the Campaign and proximity to Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over, and acquire confidential information on, the Trump Campaign," the report says.

"Taken as a whole, Manafort's high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services, particularly Kilimnik and associates of Oleg Deripaska, represented a grave counterintelligence threat," it also says.

Manafort resigned from Trump's campaign in August 2016 and later was convicted of financial fraud.

[jimmyjazz 45538]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

Quit farting in here. It’s really starting to stink. 

Starting?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33831]

meanwhile, in Germany

 

[Zeus 5945]

4 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

This will be one of the larger effects to come out of all of this. 
 

I hope it was really worth triggering the final descent of the USD as global reserve currency. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

“What is money?” is a question that economists have pondered for centuries, but the blocking of Russia’s central-bank reserves has revived its relevance for the world’s biggest nations—particularly China. In a world in which accumulating foreign assets is seen as risky, military and economic blocs are set to drift farther apart.

After Moscow attacked Ukraine last week, the U.S. and its allies shut off the Russian central bank’s access to most of its $630 billion of foreign reserves. Weaponizing the monetary system against a Group-of-20 country will have lasting repercussions.
 

The 1997 Asian Financial Crisis scared developing countries into accumulating more funds to shield their currencies from crashes, pushing official reserves from less than $2 trillion to a record $14.9 trillion in 2021, according to the International Monetary Fund. While central banks have lately sought to buy and repatriate gold, it only makes up 13% of their assets. Foreign currencies are 78%. The rest is positions at the IMF and Special Drawing Rights, or SDR—an IMF-created claim on hard currencies.

 

 

Many economists have long equated this money to savings in a piggy bank, which in turn correspond to investments made abroad in the real economy.
 

Recent events highlight the error in this thinking: Barring gold, these assets are someone else’s liability—someone who can just decide they are worth nothing. Last year, the IMF suspended Taliban-controlled Afghanistan’s access to funds and SDR. Sanctions on Iran have confirmed that holding reserves offshore doesn’t stop the U.S. Treasury from taking action. As New England Law Professor Christine Abely points out, the 2017 settlement with Singapore’s CSE TransTel shows that the mere use of the dollar abroad can violate sanctions on the premise that some payment clearing ultimately happens on U.S. soil.

To be sure, the West has frozen Russia’s stock of foreign exchange, but hasn’t blocked the inflow of new dollars and euros. The country’s current-account surplus is estimated at $20 billion a month due to exports of oil and gas, which the U.S. and the European Union want to keep buying. While these balances go to the private sector, officials have mobilized them. Stopping major banks like Sberbank from using dollars and excluding others from the Swift messaging system still plunges the economy into chaos, especially if foreign businesses are afraid to buy Russian energy despite the sector’s explicit exclusion from sanctions. But hard currency will probably keep gushing in through energy-focused lenders like Gazprombank, and can theoretically be used to pay for imports and buy the ruble.
 

Yet the entire artifice of “money“ as a universal store of value risks being eroded by the banning of key exports to Russia and boycotts of the kind corporations like Appleand Nike announced this week. If currency balances were to become worthless computer entries and didn’t guarantee buying essential stuff, Moscow would be rational to stop accumulating them and stockpile physical wealth in oil barrels, rather than sell them to the West. At the very least, more of Russia’s money will likely shift into gold and Chinese assets. 

Indeed, the case levied against China’s attempts to internationalize the renminbi has been that, unlike the dollar, access to it is always at risk of being revoked by political considerations. It is now apparent that, to a point, this is true of all currencies.

 

The risk to King Dollar’s status is still limited due to most nations’ alignment with the West and Beijing’s capital controls. But financial and economic linkages between China and sanctioned countries will necessarily strengthen if those countries can only accumulate reserves in China and only spend them there. Even nations that aren’t sanctioned may want to diversify their geopolitical risk. It seems set to further the deglobalization trend and entrench two separate spheres of technological, monetary and military power.

China itself owns $3.3 trillion in currency reserves. Unlike Russia, it cannot usefully hold them in renminbi, a currency it prints. Stockpiling commodities is an alternative. The conundrum creates another incentive for Beijing to reduce its trade surplus by reorienting its economy toward domestic consumption, though it has proven challenging. 

What can investors do? For once, the old trope may not be ill advised: buy gold. Many of the world’s central banks will surely be doing it.

“Even nations that aren’t sanctioned may want to diversify their geopolitical risk. It seems set to further the deglobalization trend and entrench two separate spheres of technological, monetary and military power.”

That's the plan, Great Reset after the internet goes out for a couple days.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/cyberattack-nato-could-trigger-collective-defence-clause-official-2022-02-28/

 

[Zeus 5945]

[Huckleberry 32694]

The political cartoon thread exists for a reason. Use it. 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

2 things which don't seem right:

1.  seizing assets of Russian billionaires. While this feels good as a "gotcha!", what is the legal justification? Sure, the government can make up their own rules at will against foreigners, but what about due process? This may move the needle against Putin but if the subjects are not Russian government officials, seems like a shady move by the governments involved. 

2. Not letting Ukranian men 18-60 leave. What if the man needs to support his 5 kids? But dies in a Russian bombing. His worth is destoryed which leads to another level of humanitarian disasters (no more breadwinner). The men should be allowed to leave. 

[WhatTheBuck 28703]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

The political cartoon thread exists for a reason. Use it. 

And remember that just because it’s in cartoon form it doesn’t mean it’s funny or insightful. 

[ChiTownDoc 21097]

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Aside from the fact that Trump wants to gobble his crank, why in the name of God would a dipshit real estate developer think it appropriate to write a letter to a world leader about that.

Even though Putin is a petty, small-dick tyrant of a ginormous shitsplat country, he's still a world leader.  The fantasy by Donald Trump that any world leader would want or give a flying fuck about his congratulations on something trivila like Time man of the year is astounding.

Only slightly less astounding than the fact that stupid motherfucker would go on to become the most powerful man in the world for a full 4 years.  

[Huckleberry 32694]

4 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

2 things which don't seem right:

1.  seizing assets of Russian billionaires. While this feels good as a "gotcha!", what is the legal justification? Sure, the government can make up their own rules at will against foreigners, but what about due process? This may move the needle against Putin but if the subjects are not Russian government officials, seems like a shady move by the governments involved. 

2. Not letting Ukranian men 18-60 leave. What if the man needs to support his 5 kids? But dies in a Russian bombing. His worth is destoryed which leads to another level of humanitarian disasters (no more breadwinner). The men should be allowed to leave. 

Assuming these are actually genuine questions, which seems questionable itself

1. They are being careful to refer to "oligarchs" for a reason. Their wealth is corrupt Kremlin money. Also, non-US citizens don't have due process rights. Whether they should is another question but it's well-established. I figure other countries are the same. 

2. Are you serious? This is a war for the nation's survival. If the United States were ever invaded and fighting for its existence no draft-eligible person would be allowed to just leave. 

[ChiTownDoc 21097]

9 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

And remember that just because it’s in cartoon form it doesn’t mean it’s funny or insightful. 

Avatar checks out.  

[WhatTheBuck 28703]

4 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Avatar checks out.  

You’re wrong. But you wouldn’t know. It’s not meant to be funny or insightful. If you weren’t reading The Lantern in the 80’s then you wouldn’t get it.

Oh, but also, if you were reading The Lantern in the 80’s, it was kind of funny. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by WhatTheBuck

[ChiTownDoc 21097]

Just now, WhatTheBuck said:

You’re wrong. But you wouldn’t know. It’s not meant to be funny or insightful. If you weren’t reading The Lantern in the 80’s then you wouldn’t get it. 

Whoooooshhhhhh

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

17 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

2 things which don't seem right:

1.  seizing assets of Russian billionaires. While this feels good as a "gotcha!", what is the legal justification? Sure, the government can make up their own rules at will against foreigners, but what about due process? This may move the needle against Putin but if the subjects are not Russian government officials, seems like a shady move by the governments involved. 

2. Not letting Ukranian men 18-60 leave. What if the man needs to support his 5 kids? But dies in a Russian bombing. His worth is destoryed which leads to another level of humanitarian disasters (no more breadwinner). The men should be allowed to leave. 

I’m fine with #1. Their support is what helps maintain Putin’s hold on power. Going after this doesn’t hurt the average civilian. Go after Putin’s assets too. 
 

I even understand why they’re doing the Swift sanctions. They have carve outs to not be totally devastating and they’ve been done before. 
 

The freezing of central bank assets is a totally different deal. It’s a crossing of the Rubicon in the financial world. Besides the bearish effect it has on the dollar system long term, it’s punitively impoverishing an entire country. A historically belligerent one at that. When has that ever gone wrong?

Edited March 4, 2022 by Immaculate Vibes

[JimmyJames 12271]

18 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

2 things which don't seem right:

1.  seizing assets of Russian billionaires. While this feels good as a "gotcha!", what is the legal justification? Sure, the government can make up their own rules at will against foreigners, but what about due process? This may move the needle against Putin but if the subjects are not Russian government officials, seems like a shady move by the governments involved. 

2. Not letting Ukranian men 18-60 leave. What if the man needs to support his 5 kids? But dies in a Russian bombing. His worth is destoryed which leads to another level of humanitarian disasters (no more breadwinner). The men should be allowed to leave. 

You have many question grasshopper. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

I’m fine with #1. Their support is what helps maintain Putin’s hold on power. Going after this doesn’t hurt the average civilian. Go after Putin’s assets too. 
 

I even understand why they’re doing the Swift sanctions. They have carve outs to not be totally devastating and they’ve been done before. 
 

The freezing of central bank assets is a totally different deal. It’s a crossing of the Rubicon in the financial world. Besides the bearish effect it has on the dollar system long term, it’s punitively impoverishing an entire country. A historically belligerent one at that. When has that ever gone wrong?

Are you talking to yourself again? 

[DigglerontheHoof 21044]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Are you talking to yourself again? 

No he’s answering “questions”.

[WhatTheBuck 28703]

12 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Whoooooshhhhhh

No, I don’t think so.

Oh wait, unless you meant that was the sound of your swing and a miss in which case it fits. 😛

Edited March 4, 2022 by WhatTheBuck

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

17 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Assuming these are actually genuine questions, which seems questionable itself

1. They are being careful to refer to "oligarchs" for a reason. Their wealth is corrupt Kremlin money. Also, non-US citizens don't have due process rights. Whether they should is another question but it's well-established. I figure other countries are the same. 

2. Are you serious? This is a war for the nation's survival. If the United States were ever invaded and fighting for its existence no draft-eligible person would be allowed to just leave. 

not really good answers.  Most big money and medium sized money in corrupt nations, which happens to be the norm for the global majority, is black money.  To discriminate against private individuals doesn't seem right, be it legal or not. Might as well kidnap and jail foreigners for a lifetime since they are not allowed any due process then. 

Letting women leave and not men is inherently sexist, just as bad as if done by race or religion.  That should be the first critique of this policy.  Not letting people leave certain death is exceptionally cruel. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

amazing

[Huckleberry 32694]

3 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

not really good answers.  Most big money and medium sized money in corrupt nations, which happens to be the norm for the global majority, is black money.  To discriminate against private individuals doesn't seem right, be it legal or not. Might as well kidnap and jail foreigners for a lifetime since they are not allowed any due process then. 

Letting women leave and not men is inherently sexist, just as bad as if done by race or religion.  That should be the first critique of this policy.  Not letting people leave certain death is exceptionally cruel. 

The answers were fine, you just don't like them. Your issues with the answers are extremely shallow. No shit most of it was always black money. But now the black money is financing an invasion. Changes things a bit for most people. And also no shit that war is sexist. Thanks for that insight. 

[RomaVicta 29769]

6 hours ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

2 things which don't seem right:

1.  seizing assets of Russian billionaires. While this feels good as a "gotcha!", what is the legal justification? Sure, the government can make up their own rules at will against foreigners, but what about due process? This may move the needle against Putin but if the subjects are not Russian government officials, seems like a shady move by the governments involved. 

 

The sanctions are shady moves? How does an alleged shady move stack up against an invasion content to use mass murder of civilians as a legitimate strategy? How does seizing a $600MM yacht compare to launching a guided missile to destroy a dormitory?

And "billionaires?" Russian oligarchs are billionaires but the words are not synonymous. Oligarchs are those who rule. They are the object of the seizures. I think I'll go back and neg you for distortion and dishonesty. 

6 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

 

The freezing of central bank assets is a totally different deal. It’s a crossing of the Rubicon in the financial world. 

So, the country doing the invading is not the one crossing the Rubicon? Interesting take.

Crossing the Rubicon with a Roman army was a violation of Roman law and tradition. The Romans didn't want to be invaded even by their own powerful armies. So, for whom is the Rubicon crossing comparison more apt? Who now would represent the historical parallel of acting against the lawbreaker?

I'll write again that these posts seem to be setting a future political position where, even if the world strategy to halt Russia works, Red Team members can crow about any repercussion. Biden hurt the banks! Biden is a communist who takes money from the rich! I hate Biden, but I'm glad he won even if he's destroying the American God was making great again!!

Fuck you guys. Maybe try being reasonable than merely trying make noises that superficially sound reasonable.

Edited March 5, 2022 by RomaVicta

[RomaVicta 29769]

28 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

Letting women leave and not men is inherently sexist, just as bad as if done by race or religion.  That should be the first critique of this policy.  Not letting people leave certain death is exceptionally cruel. 

Negged for trying to turn the tables dishonestly. Ukraine is sexist and cruel. Hell, they deserve to be invaded by the misunderstood Russians! 

[Woland 729]

Into the mind of Putin: Ivan Ilyin

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/2015-09-20/putins-philosopher

[Neonmoon 38127]

I'm shocked that Vibes is stanning for Russia. Shocked. 

[Foosters 17725]

46 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

not really good answers.  Most big money and medium sized money in corrupt nations, which happens to be the norm for the global majority, is black money.  To discriminate against private individuals doesn't seem right, be it legal or not. Might as well kidnap and jail foreigners for a lifetime since they are not allowed any due process then. 

Letting women leave and not men is inherently sexist, just as bad as if done by race or religion.  That should be the first critique of this policy.  Not letting people leave certain death is exceptionally cruel. 

Casually equating monetary sanctions to a sentence of life imprisonment is something. Also, I don't think you know what the word "discriminate" means. 

[Gil Bang 25894]

['stache 21744]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Assuming these are actually genuine questions, which seems questionable itself

1. They are being careful to refer to "oligarchs" for a reason. Their wealth is corrupt Kremlin money. Also, non-US citizens don't have due process rights. Whether they should is another question but it's well-established. I figure other countries are the same. 

2. Are you serious? This is a war for the nation's survival. If the United States were ever invaded and fighting for its existence no draft-eligible person would be allowed to just leave. 

I always wonder how the mask whiners would act if the US was ever in a world war situation and the draft was activated and private industry subjected to the Defense Production Act. I saw a sign from one of the truck convoy supporters of "No Mandates Evar!!!" I'm sure these are the same people who all those years ago vilified Muhammad Ali and his conscientious objection to the draft. What a sad state this country has become.

[Sawbonz 27392]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Don Foster ... is hard at work every day, utilizing his expertise and expansive network built during his 40 years in the metals industry to finalize financing and build the mill in Ashland, KY."

So he’s working from early in the morning until late in the evening, making many calls and having many meetings? 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

33 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

 

So, the country doing the invading is not the one crossing the Rubicon? Interesting take.

Crossing the Rubicon with a Roman army was a violation of Roman law and tradition. The Romans didn't want to be invaded even by their own powerful armies. So, for whom is the Rubicon crossing comparison more apt? Who now would represent the historical parallel of acting against the lawbreaker?

 

It’s passing a point of no return. Yes could apply to Russian more literally, but we can no longer go back to a world countries FX reserves are 100% theirs in the global financial system that we dominate. This action will have substantial ongoing ripple effects. 
 

33 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

 

I'll write again that these posts seem to be setting a future political position where, even if the world strategy to halt Russia works, Red Team members can crow about any repercussion. Biden hurt the banks! Biden is a communist who takes money from the rich! I hate Biden, but I'm glad he won even if he's destroying the American God was making great again!!

Fuck you guys. Maybe try being reasonable than merely trying make noises that superficially sound reasonable.

I’m not setting the table for anything. I guess I just look at the financial side of these things from more of a long term perspective based on my personal interest and knowledge. Repercussions should be part of the calculation for any aggressive actions we take. 
 

25 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I'm shocked that Vibes is stanning for Russia. Shocked. 

Disagreeing with one sanction on Russia while supporting the rest, supporting Ukraine’s sovereignty while acknowledging  there are limits on our support of it=stanning for Russia. Great. 
 

 

[Zeus 5945]

[Gil Bang 25894]

FFS.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Or, ya know, we aren’t telling the world we are supplying intelligence the enemy doesn’t know we have.

Either or.

And quit posting dumb memes in this thread. They’re so unfunny they’re offensive to anyone with even the barest sense of humor.

[Brisketexan 104537]

19 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Disagreeing with one sanction on Russia while supporting the rest, supporting Ukraine’s sovereignty while acknowledging  there are limits on our support of it=stanning for Russia. Great. 

Which sanctions do you support? List them.

If you support Ukrainian sovereignty, what specific actions to you support that Ukraine can take to try to actually preserve that sovereignty?  Be specific.

[ChiTownDoc 21097]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

No, I don’t think so.

Oh wait, unless you meant that was the sound of your swing and a miss in which case it fits. 😛

Nice edit, bro.  J/K, I have no idea what we're even talking about by now.  Cheers to a no nuke Friday...

[956 Worldwide 34411]

1. The individuals being sanctioned are not just wealthy private individuals, it’s well known that Putin distributes lots of his own money to these allies so it can’t be traced to him and to make it harder to hit. Sanctions on them are sanctions on Putin.

2.  The second point is so unbelievably stupid that now I regret giving a real response to answer (1).

[henrygandorf 29174]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Which sanctions do you support? List them.

If you support Ukrainian sovereignty, what specific actions to you support that Ukraine can take to try to actually preserve that sovereignty?  Be specific.

dude, back off.  he already said obama was right about something and that he's glad biden won.

what more evidence do you fucking need?!?!?!!111

[ChiTownDoc 21097]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

dude, back off.  he already said obama was right about something and that he's glad biden won.

what more evidence do you fucking need?!?!?!!111

I was hoping we could hear about the black friend I'm sure he has. 

[Napoleon 8600]

2 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Only slightly less astounding than the fact that stupid motherfucker would go on to become the most powerful man in the world for a full 4 years.  

If Putin was controlling him, then he wasn’t the most powerful man in the world, was he?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

3 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

I just cant imagine how you enforce a no-fly zone without this business getting out of control to the point we'd be lucky to survive it.

Set some parameters, restrictions on rules of engagement, get creative.  Maybe limit the zone to the western half of the country. Some ideas are out there on how to give willing pilots Ukrainian citizenship/passport as to avoid overt NATO/foreign involvement. This is a unique situation which requires unorthodox approaches.  I pray we are doing some of this behind the scenes. The Russians having less than zero credibility at the moment also helps. Whatever can be done to lessen the massacre, intercept those missiles, and contain the conflict. Don’t focus on what Putin is thinking, just do what needs to be done without risking damage to the NATO/EU alliance/credibility. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Hugo Stiglitz

[TwiceHorn 31240]

Point of order, non-US citizens are still entitled to due process.  

I support the seizure of such assets, despite my opposition to, inter alia, civil asset forfeiture.  But I am a bit curious about the legal basis for it and what sort of "procedure" will be applied after the seizure.

And, I am not comparing oligarchs to Japanese-Americans, but I think it is worth considering that "wartime zeal" is what gets you shit like Korematsu.

[ChiTownDoc 21097]

2 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

If Putin was controlling him, then he wasn’t the most powerful man in the world, was he?

Sorry, I should have put 'most powerful man in the world' in quotes as that position has traditionally been defined as just that...traditions are fucked - some of that is good, some not so good. 

[tx 3 putt 76294]

 

 

now why would Kentucky have sooooo many ties to Russian banks ???

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

27 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Which sanctions do you support? List them.

If you support Ukrainian sovereignty, what specific actions to you support that Ukraine can take to try to actually preserve that sovereignty?  Be specific.

I support freezing assets that we can of Putin and his oligarchs. Also visa restrictions on their families etc. I support the targeting of the known Russian disinformation distribution platforms. The Swift restrictions I’m ok with as well. Those are the ones off the top of my head. 
 

As far as support for Ukraine I support our supplying of them with weapons and I support our deployment of troops to neighboring NATO countries. 
 

Where I diverge from CR i guess is on freezing of central bank reserves. That and I’m more willing to question some of the stuff coming from the Ukrainian side. Zelensky is openly agitating for us to get more involved and it’s not always honest. We just had a nuclear war crime that wasn’t last night. I understand why he’s doing it, but I don’t get why it’s being force fed to us as if it’s true. Obviously social media makes it hard to stop disinformation especially from a war zone.
 

I just get uneasy when media and political establishment are so strongly aligned on one thing that really isn’t an existential threat. That’s when we get led into mistakes. 
 

It feels like we’re being led seamlessly from one crisis to another. I’m not down with that. 

[sidis 9731]

4 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

 

now why would Kentucky have sooooo many ties to Russian banks ???

see post 3081 on this page.

[pyrohornIII 4805]

Don't mind 3 putt.  He's been busy with his ladies.  Wonder if his Russian interest is still in good standing.

 

I know, I know, don't be sugar babying up CR.  Sorry.

[pyrohornIII 4805]

14 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Point of order, non-US citizens are still entitled to due process.  

I support the seizure of such assets, despite my opposition to, inter alia, civil asset forfeiture.  But I am a bit curious about the legal basis for it and what sort of "procedure" will be applied after the seizure.

And, I am not comparing oligarchs to Japanese-Americans, but I think it is worth considering that "wartime zeal" is what gets you shit like Korematsu.

It does raise a lot of questions. 

So if they hold those assets basically in escrow until the end of the conflict, seems like they would go after the owners as war criminals for financially backing Putin and the Kremlin?   Then the assets can be officially seized as part of the punishment?    

In the meantime, who pays the maintenance on those yachts?  I assume the countries who seize them?   

[Longhorn_Fan68 33831]

drone nerds, unite!