Ukraine War

[Captainant 27442]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Just a suggestion, but maybe put a counter on the board discussion forum for posters with most reported posts and posters issuing the most reports.  Would be interesting, esp back during the dark days of the [serious] thread persecutions. 

IMO, I think it would be interesting to have some sort of diminishing return on repeated rep to the same user to prevent one or two posters like sack or GRUhorn from keeping bad actors and trolls on the board. Folks like bravo and 4doorsmorewhores exist solely because of a circle jerk of other deplorables repping each other.

Ultimately the whole [serious] thing happened because of a rash of fucking trolls just looking to shitsling that crowded out any discussion. It was a shit system, but it was less shitty than every marginally controversial thread getting derailed by the same four or five people.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Captainant

[Junior Miller 1502]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

From Molly McKew:

Nice speech but she failed to mention what it is she would like Biden to do here. 

Russia is getting bled out militarily Ukraine. He's got so much shit on his hands there he won't be able to invade any other countries unless he goes full withdrawal from Ukraine. He's stuck. Why throw him a lifeline? Just let him keep fucking himself while telling him he can leave Ukraine at any time and keep his people in Russia and the sanctions will be pulled back. 

How do these people not understand that just because the US government isn't having conferences declaring how they're fighting Putin right now doesn't mean they aren't fighting him. This case calls for clandestine operation not vocal belligerence. The lives of 300+ million Americans and billions in North America, Europe, and Asia are at stake. 

[Anastasis 23393]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Ultimately the whole [serious] thing happened because of a rash of fucking trolls just looking to shitsling that crowded out any discussion. It was a shit system, but it was less shitty than every marginally controversial thread getting derailed by the same four or five people.

Something to that.  But all I know is that absent transparent and objective data, the moderation appeared capricious and influenced by reporting bias during that episode.  

[David Dennison 18652]

10 minutes ago, Bravo said:

You can't have any opinion in this forum painting Trump in a positive light and you know that. You're being obtuse. I'll stick to the DT thread tonight. More intelligent conversation there anyway. 

Have fun in the right wing CR.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2786]

22 minutes ago, immamac said:

How else are we going to push harder? Shooting at them? That gets us into a war. We are putting BILLIONS worth of weapons in their hands fast as hell and we are providing all kinds of intelligence. What else do you want America to do? Invade Russia? 

Agree that much of the work is going to be clandestine, so very well understand the argument that "we are doing all we can".  At this early stage I'm just not convinced that we are doing everything we can short of no fly and no troops. 

Multiply what we are doing by two or three. Make it clear that we are going to replenish the stockpiles of any ally providing tactical arms to Ukraine.  Replenish the aircraft that the allies will be providing.

In short, do everything we can to kill Russian invaders short of pulling the trigger.

I'm open to any link that says we're tapped out and Ukraine says they don't need anything else.

Edited March 10, 2022 by The Original Greaser Bob

[The Original Greaser Bob 2786]

Use the ignore function and stop bitching.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

3 minutes ago, Bravo said:

I could create the list of the people reporting me and be 90% accurate. I wonder why that is? It's so stupid. Amazing how my discussion about Ukraine is received so differently in 2 different threads. Wonder why? BTW this is probably one of the few things I likely agree with most in the CR on. 

Negged for being a whiny cunt.

[Huckleberry 32694]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

Same with negs then too. I'd be fine with that in that case. 

You'd be fine with a system where you could overcome being a shitty poster by simply increasing the volume of your shitty posts? No way.

[immamac 42516]

2 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Multiply what we are doing by two or three. Make it clear that we are going to replenish the stockpiles of any ally providing tactical arms to Ukraine.  Replenish the aircraft that the allies will be providing.

In short, do everything we can to kill Russian invaders short of pulling the trigger.

I'm open to any link that says we're tapped out and Ukraine says they don't need anything else.

You don't seem to realize what it is we are doing for Ukraine. We are doing everything short of legitimately entering the war or giving putin a reason to say we directly entered the combat. We ARE doing all those things already. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2786]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

You don't seem to realize what it is we are doing for Ukraine. We are doing everything short of legitimately entering the war or giving putin a reason to say we directly entered the combat. We ARE doing all those things already. 

I'm willing to bet that's not true.  Let's see what happens over the next two weeks, and if we do anything beyond what we are planning to do today, will you admit that you are overstating your case?

[Biff Tannen 45491]

19 minutes ago, Bravo said:

You can't have any opinion in this forum painting Trump in a positive light and you know that. You're being obtuse. I'll stick to the DT thread tonight. More intelligent conversation there anyway. 

Trump was objectively the worst president in American history and it's not close.  Quit crying.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2786]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Trump was objectively the worst president in American history and it's not close.  Quit crying.

Trump stepping on his infantile dick during the pandemic didn't seem to slow the development of the vaccines.

There, I said something nice.

[immamac 42516]

Just now, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I'm willing to bet that's not true.  Let's see what happens over the next two weeks, and if we do anything beyond what we are planning to do today, will you admit that you are overstating your case?

Sure, but there's no indication we aren't tightening every screw we can on Russia while at the same time passing massive Congressional approved military and humanitarian packages for Ukraine. I get it, it's horrible that they are bombing civilians - maternity wards it's absolutely unacceptable. That's why we are doing what we are doing - it would be a whole different level of atrocious if we got involved and nukes entered the fray. 

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

38 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Anyone with any suggested charities?  I just finished reading Doing Good Better so now I am all getting tied in knots on GiveWell and Charity Watch trying to find the best charities  (Give Well always tends to argue you should just give your money for mosquito netting.)

Anyway, seems like Docs Without Borders and Direct Relief might be good choices.

 

[brakeman 28228]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

Sure, but there's no indication we aren't tightening every screw we can on Russia while at the same time passing massive Congressional approved military and humanitarian packages for Ukraine. I get it, it's horrible that they are bombing civilians - maternity wards it's absolutely unacceptable. That's why we are doing what we are doing - it would be a whole different level of atrocious if we got involved and nukes entered the fray. 

Putin wants to get us into the taint.

[Sawbonz 27398]

55 minutes ago, Bravo said:

LOL you're so brainwashed you don't even know or blocked it out. BTW Obama sent blankets after Putin took Crimea. 

Yeah Trump’s a wonderful guy

In 2018, Trump did sign off on a $47 million sale of 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles and 37 launchers to Ukraine. But when Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he wanted to buy more Javelins the following year, Trump withheld nearly $400 million in aid authorized by Congress while he pressured his counterpart to announce an investigation into Joe Biden and his son Hunter. The U.S. Government Accountability Office found that the Trump administration broke the law by withholding this aid.

[Captainant 27442]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Something to that.  But all I know is that absent transparent and objective data, the moderation appeared capricious and influenced by reporting bias during that episode.  

(This should really be in PDTB but the relevant thread is ironically the shitting spot for another sock)

IMO - surly mods could do better with transparency. When posts are moderated they're usually deleted, so there's no record to point back to later and there's no signal for the offending poster for what it was that crossed the line.

The DT George Floyd/police violence and COVID threads were straight up right wing meme threads for a good while, and anyone who posted against it got reported en masse, and the moderation was similarly biased towards the volume of reports.

I get it. It's a football message board. Nobody should have to treat moderation like a job and get second guessed left and right. But damn if isn't opaque as hell

(I'll stop derailing sorry lol)

[F250 28680]

49 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Meh, they are totalitarians that pretend they are going to transition to communism.  That will never ever happen.  Only the rubes believe that they are communist or will ever transition into becoming communists.  

Probably not but that doesn't exclude them from being communist it's just a different interpretation of Marx. Of course totalitarianism and communism are not mutually exclusive either.

If Xi ever shuts down the politburo and disbands the Communist party then we could probably start talking about China not being communist but as of now the transition of power flows through the CCP.

[Gil Bang 25897]

Anyone with any suggested charities?  I just finished reading Doing Good Better so now I am all getting tied in knots on GiveWell and Charity Watch trying to find the best charities  (Give Well always tends to argue you should just give your money for mosquito netting.)
Anyway, seems like Docs Without Borders and Direct Relief might be good choices.

World central kitchen

[F250 28680]

54 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

she's calling for us to get some balls and push on Putin a bit

But what does that mean? Specifically what should the U.S. do that it already isn't doing?

 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2786]

10 minutes ago, F250 said:

But what does that mean? Specifically what should the U.S. do that it already isn't doing?

 

Get the MiG deal straight with Poland.

[tx 3 putt 76314]

1 hour ago, Bookman said:

If I die in a nuclear strike, it was nice knowing all you assholes.

 

if it comes to that, and I'm home....100% ill be toast. i live close to many high targets 

[immamac 42516]

Just now, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Get the MiG deal straight with Poland.

There is no way to get them jets without flying them in from some other country. What is hard about that to understand? You can't just say hey Ukrainians it's cool come get your jets from a NATO air base and fly them into Ukraine on a mission. You also can't just have someone from NATO fly them INTO Ukrainian airspace. Javelins and munitions can be driven in and dropped off at the border. Jets can't just magic themselves into Ukraine. I get it, I really do - we want them to get jets, all of us do. There is no real feasible way to get them fucking jets. 

[DDD Dad 14251]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

You can't have any opinion in this forum painting Trump in a positive light and you know that. You're being obtuse. I'll stick to the DT thread tonight. More intelligent conversation there anyway. 

Way to make this thread all about you. 
 

Like most of your posts on this site. 

[Captainant 27442]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

There is no way to get them jets without flying them in from some other country. What is hard about that to understand? You can't just say hey Ukrainians it's cool come get your jets from a NATO air base and fly them into Ukraine on a mission. You also can't just have someone from NATO fly them INTO Ukrainian airspace. Javelins and munitions can be driven in and dropped off at the border. Jets can't just magic themselves into Ukraine. I get it, I really do - we want them to get jets, all of us do. There is no real feasible way to get them fucking jets. 

Just thinking silly here because jets are fucking HUGE pieces of machinery, but what if they just put the things on trucks and rolled em across the border? 

[F250 28680]

4 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Get the MiG deal straight with Poland.

My guess is that the U.S. is telling Poland to STFU. Poland didn't need to announce that to the world and then say "hot potato" and toss it in our lap.

The U.S. does appear to be sticking to the proxy war playbook to provide cover but in the era of the internet everyone wants a fucking play by play announcement.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2786]

He asked what more we can do.  That's an answer.  Ukraine wants them and you and the Pentagon think it's a bad idea. Pretty easy, in fact, to understand.

[DDD Dad 14251]

Just now, Bravo said:

Is that what happened? Or was it someone making it about me? 

I remember when my grown kids had discussions like this with me. They were in junior high. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2786]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Just thinking silly here because jets are fucking HUGE pieces of machinery, but what if they just put the things on trucks and rolled em across the border? 

That's already been posed as a solution.

[bolverk 29397]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

None of your liberal CR buds like me. Plenty of people not in that category do. 

[Hagbard Celine 10752]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

Not true. Many heads blow up here at the mere mention of anything positive Trump may have done. That's what's going on.

wut?

[Hagbard Celine 10752]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

How about not take shit off the table because “Putin is scary.” The administration looks weak right now. When you publicly say you don’t want to escalate Putin reads that as a green light to keep escalating. 

You want to play that game?   Okay.

NUKES NOW!!

That's the sum of your logic.

[Hagbard Celine 10752]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

You can't have any opinion in this forum painting Trump in a positive light and you know that. You're being obtuse. I'll stick to the DT thread tonight. More intelligent conversation there anyway. 

you live in a reality tunnel where it's possible to "paint dotard in a positive light".

we live in an equally valid reality tunnel where it's impossible to "paint dotard in a positive light".

we, on this side, fully understand your position.

you, on the other side, refuse to acknowledge much less understand our position.

you are incapable of doing so precisely due to the programming which makes your reality tunnel "true" in your view.

NUKES NOW!  OWN THE LIBS!   Don't forget to like and forward!

 

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

39 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Just thinking silly here because jets are fucking HUGE pieces of machinery, but what if they just put the things on trucks and rolled em across the border? 

I thought I heard at one point that Ukrainian pilots would just go to Poland and fly the jets back home. I don’t know if that would make much of a difference to the war effort anyway. Every little bit helps, of course. But I don’t know what happened to that plan, assuming there ever was such a plan in the first place. There’s that whole “fog of war” thing and we can’t instantly assume anything we hear is true. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by WhatTheBuck

[Anastasis 23393]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

I went to Obama's website and it has recommendations.

Did they include counseling and blankets?

It's amazing the decades of policy failure in the setting of centuries of historical context we choose to allow to fly right over our heads. 

American foreign policy has a particular track record for narrow and short-term thinking. 

China gonna bend us over.  Just a matter of time. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Anastasis

[Hagbard Celine 10752]

1 hour ago, Junior Miller said:

This case calls for clandestine operation not vocal belligerence. The lives of 300+ million Americans and billions in North America, Europe, and Asia are at stake. 

Since the public disclosure of the B-2 in 1988, the US has spent $25 billion a year starting around 1990 up to $90 billion a year in 2020, so, about Two Trillion Dollars, on undisclosed technology.  More than half of this went in to the cyber side of the house.   The remaining 40%?   I hope we don't have to find out what that was spent on.

[Hagbard Celine 10752]

1 hour ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I'm willing to bet that's not true.  Let's see what happens over the next two weeks, and if we do anything beyond what we are planning to do today, will you admit that you are overstating your case?

Thesis: today we are not using 99% of the non-cyber black options available.  Next week, we start using an available non-cyber black technology.  You and I will remain unaware of this.

[Hagbard Celine 10752]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

But what does that mean? Specifically what should the U.S. do that it already isn't doing?

 

Deploy the Jewish Space Lasers

[Horn Dogg 3807]

18 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I thought I heard at one point that Ukrainian pilots would just go to Poland and fly the jets back home. I don’t know if that would make much of a difference to the war effort anyway. Every little bit helps, of course. But I don’t know what happened to that plan, assuming there ever was such a plan in the first place. There’s that whole “fog of war” thing and we can’t instantly assume anything we hear is true. 

Just fucking put those Ukrainian pilots on the refugee train to Poland and leave the keys in the jets that day.  Or line the jets  up by the baby strollers.  The pilots can take it from there.

[F250 28680]

16 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Deploy the Jewish Space Lasers

[Hagbard Celine 10752]

poland has 23 MiG-29s

fly 1 by itself to the 23 largest consumers of Russian petro

tweet the hell out of the ceremonial painting of the ukraine flag on each bird

refuel

deploy sigint huff-duff jewish space lasers

assemble all of them at ____________ for a final refueling which is within range of the bosporus for a pre-dawn supersonic dash over the black sea

call it Operation Spartacus

[Captainant 27442]

4 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

poland has 23 MiG-29s

fly 1 by itself to the 23 largest consumers of Russian petro

tweet the hell out of the ceremonial painting of the ukraine flag on each bird

refuel

deploy sigint huff-duff jewish space lasers

assemble all of them at ____________ for a final refueling which is within range of the bosporus for a pre-dawn supersonic dash over the black sea

call it Operation Spartacus

Lmao transferring them through Finland would be a big time FAFO check

[Gidnik 3251]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

Vice President Kamala Harris just announced that we’ve delivered a bunch of Patriot missile batteries to Poland.

[Woodrow Call 494]

9 hours ago, Nivek said:

you are free to join the Ukrainian resistance.  

If I could get there, I would. Even at age 59. 

[Woodrow Call 494]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

And here's her little girl. 

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

I have flat feet, I’m asthmatic, I have bad knees and a bum shoulder. I haven’t shot a gun since my Daisy BB gun when I was about 10 years old. The thought that if I was Ukrainian I could be forced to stay in the country and fight scares me. I could do things to help. I could cook. I could clean. I could help render medical aid. But putting me on the front line would just make me cannon fodder and would be a waste of a gun. But if I could kill just two Russian invaders before they killed me then I would die a happy man. 

[Nivek 16853]

8 hours ago, F250 said:

Probably not but that doesn't exclude them from being communist it's just a different interpretation of Marx. Of course totalitarianism and communism are not mutually exclusive either.

If Xi ever shuts down the politburo and disbands the Communist party then we could probably start talking about China not being communist but as of now the transition of power flows through the CCP.

I don't know about that.  I tend to describe things in terms of what they are not what they pretend they are.  If we use just use the titles, than North Korea is a Democratic Republic because that is what they call themselves, even though their government is most assuredly despotic.