Ukraine War

[PsychMike 1537]

10 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Putin will have to resign after this. 

I wish I could believe otherwise...and I pray for your statement to come true.

[PsychMike 1537]

nm

Edited March 13, 2022 by PsychMike
dp derp.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19074]

Brent Renaud, an award-winning American filmmaker and journalist, was killed in Ukraine on Sunday while reporting in a suburb of the capital, Kyiv, according to Ukraine’s Interior Ministry.

Mr. Renaud, 50, had worked for a number of American news and media organizations in the past, including HBO, NBC and The New York Times. The Ukrainian authorities said he was killed in Irpin, a suburb that has been the site of intense shelling by Russian forces in recent days, but the details of his death were not immediately clear. Ukrainian officials said another journalist was wounded as well.

Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister, said in a statement that Mr. Renaud “paid with his life for attempting to expose the insidiousness, cruelty and ruthlessness of the aggressor.”

Mr. Renaud had contributed to The Times in previous years, most recently in 2015, but he was not on assignment for the company in Ukraine. Early reports that he was working for The Times in Ukraine circulated because he was found with a Times press badge that had been issued for an assignment years ago.

“We are deeply saddened to hear of Brent Renaud’s death,” said Danielle Rhoades Ha, a spokeswoman for The Times. “Brent was a talented filmmaker.”

Mr. Renaud often worked with his brother, Craig, and won a Peabody award for a Vice News documentary about a school in Chicago. The two have worked on film and television projects from conflict zones and hot spots around the world.

Over the past decade, the brothers have covered the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the earthquake in Haiti, cartel violence in Mexico and youth refugees in Central America, according to their website.
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/13/world/europe/brent-renaud-irpin.html

[Biff Tannen 45477]

20 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Say it again

Tolstoy?

[bolverk 29360]

What a complete crock of shit.

 

[Hornius Emeritus 12403]

 

[Hagbard Celine 10734]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Brent Renaud, an award-winning American filmmaker and journalist, was killed in Ukraine on Sunday while reporting in a suburb of the capital, Kyiv, according to Ukraine’s Interior Ministry.

Mr. Renaud, 50, had worked for a number of American news and media organizations in the past, including HBO, NBC and The New York Times. The Ukrainian authorities said he was killed in Irpin, a suburb that has been the site of intense shelling by Russian forces in recent days, but the details of his death were not immediately clear. Ukrainian officials said another journalist was wounded as well.

Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister, said in a statement that Mr. Renaud “paid with his life for attempting to expose the insidiousness, cruelty and ruthlessness of the aggressor.”

Mr. Renaud had contributed to The Times in previous years, most recently in 2015, but he was not on assignment for the company in Ukraine. Early reports that he was working for The Times in Ukraine circulated because he was found with a Times press badge that had been issued for an assignment years ago.

“We are deeply saddened to hear of Brent Renaud’s death,” said Danielle Rhoades Ha, a spokeswoman for The Times. “Brent was a talented filmmaker.”

Mr. Renaud often worked with his brother, Craig, and won a Peabody award for a Vice News documentary about a school in Chicago. The two have worked on film and television projects from conflict zones and hot spots around the world.

Over the past decade, the brothers have covered the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the earthquake in Haiti, cartel violence in Mexico and youth refugees in Central America, according to their website.
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/13/world/europe/brent-renaud-irpin.html

plaintext

Brent Renaud, an award-winning American filmmaker and journalist, was killed in Ukraine on Sunday while reporting in a suburb of the capital, Kyiv, according to Ukraine’s Interior Ministry.

Mr. Renaud, 50, had worked for a number of American news and media organizations in the past, including HBO, NBC and The New York Times. The Ukrainian authorities said he was killed in Irpin, a suburb that has been the site of intense shelling by Russian forces in recent days, but the details of his death were not immediately clear. Ukrainian officials said another journalist was wounded as well.

Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister, said in a statement that Mr. Renaud “paid with his life for attempting to expose the insidiousness, cruelty and ruthlessness of the aggressor.”

Mr. Renaud had contributed to The Times in previous years, most recently in 2015, but he was not on assignment for the company in Ukraine. Early reports that he was working for The Times in Ukraine circulated because he was found with a Times press badge that had been issued for an assignment years ago.

“We are deeply saddened to hear of Brent Renaud’s death,” said Danielle Rhoades Ha, a spokeswoman for The Times. “Brent was a talented filmmaker.”

Mr. Renaud often worked with his brother, Craig, and won a Peabody award for a Vice News documentary about a school in Chicago. The two have worked on film and television projects from conflict zones and hot spots around the world.

Over the past decade, the brothers have covered the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the earthquake in Haiti, cartel violence in Mexico and youth refugees in Central America, according to their website.

[disgustipated 39]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:41 AM, Brisketexan said:

Ecuador? No. Honduras? Pretty close to it. Whether your family lives under the constant specter of falling artillery or out of control criminal violence doesn’t make much difference - broken dead bodies is broken dead bodies. You should have a similar amount of fear for your family’s safety in Honduras as you would in Ukraine. Neither of which are your fault, and in both cases, you just want to get them someplace safe.
That kid isn’t fleeing Honduras because his family is greedy. He’s fleeing because they want him to live.

Yeah but the gangster in Russia also has nukes. Not saying it excuses the distinction, but it's the reality.  Ukraine is also better at marketing. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by disgustipated

[SizzleChest 8275]

2 hours ago, PsychMike said:

I wish I could believe otherwise...and I pray for your statement to come true.

Narrarator: It won't.

[SizzleChest 8275]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

What a complete crock of shit.

 

RELEASE TEH LADYBUGS!!!

[disgustipated 39]

I have seen several assessments that indicate that Putin has no political off ramps at this point. If that is true, the question is longer if but when we will take military action.  Talks of chemical weapons is driving more ambiguity in US responses.  And new airstrikes into western Ukraine is upping the ante. Shouldn’t we be mobilizing a credible response on the Poland border in the event entry into Ukraine is warranted or at least as a credible counterattack deterrent to Putin?  

Btw, anyone remember the time, the US undertook a military operation that entered the airspace of another nuclear power?

[RomaVicta 29756]

21 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

If I were a Russian Bazillionaire, my yacht would have traditional old-school rigging and I would buy actual tar-crusted humans to clamber up and down ratlines during high storms, and amuse me with their rum-fueled antics when becalmed.

Don't forget rum, sodomy, and the lash! You could name it Churchill.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

4 minutes ago, disgustipated said:

I have seen several assessments that indicate that Putin has no political off ramps at this point. If that is true, the question is longer if but when we will take military action.  Talks of chemical weapons is driving more ambiguity in US responses.  And new airstrikes into western Ukraine is upping the ante. Shouldn’t we be mobilizing a credible response on the Poland border in the event entry into Ukraine is warranted or at least as a credible counterattack deterrent to Putin?  

Btw, anyone remember the time, the US undertook a military operation that entered the airspace of another nuclear power?

this guys mission. 
 

Edited March 13, 2022 by BehoId, The Underminer!

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

when, not if, Ukraine prevails - will NATO help them become a nuclear power?  Do the silo locations still exist? The equipment stored in warehouses?

I say let Ukraine re-nuke. Let Russia try something then. 

[RomaVicta 29756]

 

Negotiators signal progress in recent Kyiv-Moscow talks

Return to menu

By Kim Bellware and David Stern12:28 p.m.

 

Quote

“Russia is starting to talk constructively; I think we will reach some concrete results, literally, in a few days,” Mykhailo Podolyak, a Ukrainian presidential adviser and a member of Kyiv’s delegation in peace talks with Russia, said in a video posted online Sunday.

Podolyak’s hopeful outlook was echoed by his Russian counterpart, Leonid Slutsky. In an interview with Russian state media Saturday, Slutsky announced “significant progress” in the negotiations with Ukraine and suggested it could develop into an agreement between the two sides, and ultimately, “documents for signing.”

Podolyak in his video remarks said Moscow had become more “sensitive” to Ukraine’s stance, which he said had been made clear “on the battlefield.”

“Our proposals on the table are very tough and above all concern the withdrawal of troops and the cease-fire,” Podolyak said. He told viewers that Ukraine won’t budge on principle on any of the proposals, a stance he said “Russia already understands.”

I'm very surprised to read this. Washington Post about an hour ago.

Putin may not have carte blanche after all. Sources seem reliable. Fingers crossed. Putin's furious attack right now could be about bargaining.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

 

Negotiators signal progress in recent Kyiv-Moscow talks

Return to menu

By Kim Bellware and David Stern12:28 p.m.

 

I'm very surprised to read this. Washington Post about an hour ago.

Putin may not have carte blanche after all. Sources seem reliable. Fingers crossed. Putin's furious attack right now could be about bargaining.

or his usual bluff and stall tactics. 

[RomaVicta 29756]

3 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

when, not if, Ukraine prevails - will NATO help them become a nuclear power?  Do the silo locations still exist? The equipment stored in warehouses?

I say let Ukraine re-nuke. Let Russia try something then. 

Whatever tacos you're eating, I ain't buyin'. 

Nuclear proliferation as almost always had the prefix anti-.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

What a complete crock of shit.

 

FOX is trash mirroring much of our culture.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

Just now, RomaVicta said:

Whatever tacos you're eating, I ain't buyin'. 

Nuclear proliferation as almost always had the prefix anti-.

Ukraine gave up nukes in the 1990s, now look at the consequences.  They deserve them and the US should help in the effort. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

Just now, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

Ukraine gave up nukes in the 1990s, now look at the consequences.  They deserve them and the US should help in the effort. 

“Gave up nukes” isn’t really right though. They were legacy Soviet nukes under Russian control as I understand. 

[Woodrow Call 494]

Best piece I've seen on the conflict and explains why the economic pressure may not mean shit. In fact, Putin may welcome economic isolation. Half of the talking heads opining on Russia have never even been there, so it is nice to hear from someone with extensive firsthand experience.

https://www.ft.com/content/503fb110-f91e-4bed-b6dc-0d09582dd007?shareType=nongift

[disgustipated 39]

22 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

when, not if, Ukraine prevails - will NATO help them become a nuclear power?  Do the silo locations still exist? The equipment stored in warehouses?

I say let Ukraine re-nuke. Let Russia try something then. 

Are you assuming that the lead up to resolution doesnt involve the use of nukes?  If it does, do we abide by the 1994 Budapest Memorandum?

2-23-22_ukraine-the_budapest_memo.pdf (harvard.edu)

Edited March 13, 2022 by disgustipated

[TexArcher 37455]

2 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

when, not if, Ukraine prevails - will NATO help them become a nuclear power?  Do the silo locations still exist? The equipment stored in warehouses?

I say let Ukraine re-nuke. Let Russia try something then. 

The only way Ukraine prevails is if Putin backs down or NATO joins with boots on the ground, neither of which is likely to happen, and that's an understatement.

The most likely outcome by far is hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainian civilians within six months.

I hope I'm wrong.  But I think we all need to be prepared for this to get fucking awful in ways well beyond what we've seen so far.

[RomaVicta 29756]

14 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

Ukraine gave up nukes in the 1990s, now look at the consequences.  They deserve them and the US should help in the effort. 

I'll let somebody else argue in more detail, but Ukraine did not develop a nuclear war program and install it as a defense against any country beyond it's borders. 

They also didn't just "give them up." When the USSR fell apart, they lost the old Soviet personnel who manned the sites. Ukraine hadn't the means or desire to take on the responsibility of an arsenal of nuclear missiles. 

Imagine the US breaking up. Would you argue that Nebraska was now a legit nuclear power? Would the world want the governor of Nebraska having the codes? Would Nebraska want to maintain a nuclear arsenal? Rockets and warheads and nuclear materials and having the rest of the world's nukes pointed at them?

Ukraine happily allowed Russia to take it's missiles and go home. We wouldn't be happier today if the Ukraine president was threatening to go nuclear and Putin was saying, "go for it, tovarisch."

You are right in your previous post about what may be Putin's game. It's all guessing now. Putin could be setting up a scenario where he tells his people Ukraine chose war instead of peace. On the other hand, he has people in his country that want out of this war; wouldn't announcing peace as a possibility only encourage them?

I can't imagine a development more promising than what's in the WP article. Who knows what will happen.

Edit to write: Behold was concise. Compliments.

Edited March 13, 2022 by RomaVicta

[Scheiss Meister 8398]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

What a complete crock of shit.

 

Hey, Senator Dumbass.  President Biden is thinking about both Ukraine and after, as well as keeping this war from spreading.  As much as it sucks to say this, Putin's defeat is more important to US and European security than Ukrainian victory.  Getting both would be double icing on the cake.

[Bullneck 18976]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

What a complete crock of shit.

 

There's the Lindsey we know. Choices are:

 - Can't say anything relevant, so stay quiet and out of the press,

OR

 - Make up red meat bullshit for your morons in SC and get on Tee Vee

I'm not going to any fucking road games in Columbia. 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Bullneck

[RomaVicta 29756]

Yea, how dare Biden put American (and NATO) interests ahead of Ukraine's!

The GЯP has its ass in a wringer along with Putin. 

Again, what kind of an organization will say or do anything to survive? 

Yes, a criminal organization.

[4th&Five 41457]

Nsiap 

[Neonmoon 38127]

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

43 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

“Gave up nukes” isn’t really right though. They were legacy Soviet nukes under Russian control as I understand. 

after Russia withdrew, the Russians did not "control" the nuke program. Roma details that in a post downthread (not upthread). 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

34 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'll let somebody else argue in more detail, but Ukraine did not develop a nuclear war program and install it as a defense against any country beyond it's borders. 

They also didn't just "give them up." When the USSR fell apart, they lost the old Soviet personnel who manned the sites. Ukraine hadn't the means or desire to take on the responsibility of an arsenal of nuclear missiles. 

Imagine the US breaking up. Would you argue that Nebraska was now a legit nuclear power? Would the world want the governor of Nebraska having the codes? Would Nebraska want to maintain a nuclear arsenal? Rockets and warheads and nuclear materials and having the rest of the world's nukes pointed at them?

Ukraine happily allowed Russia to take it's missiles and go home. We wouldn't be happier today if the Ukraine president was threatening to go nuclear and Putin was saying, "go for it, tovarisch."

You are right in your previous post about what may be Putin's game. It's all guessing now. Putin could be setting up a scenario where he tells his people Ukraine chose war instead of peace. On the other hand, he has people in his country that want out of this war; wouldn't announcing peace as a possibility only encourage them?

I can't imagine a development more promising than what's in the WP article. Who knows what will happen.

Edit to write: Behold was concise. Compliments.

if Nebraska was surrounded by evil enemies, Oklahoma and Iowa, yes the Huskers need nukes.   Nukes do keep the peace, as inconvenient & ugly a truth as that. 

[disgustipated 39]

24 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

if Nebraska was surrounded by evil enemies, Oklahoma and Iowa, yes the Huskers need nukes.   Nukes do keep the peace, as inconvenient & ugly a truth as that. 

Then it follows more nukes equals more peace, kinda like more guns equals less gun violence. Green light for NK and Iran, right?  Just asking the question.

Edited March 13, 2022 by disgustipated

[pyrohornIII 4801]

On 3/12/2022 at 12:18 PM, Hagbard Celine said:

150 in 10th grade

the hot typing teacher had to stop doing her bright red nails to watch me fly....   mrs. walker, but no ring, probably 27ish at the time

if i was smart i would have exploited the situation

she had that "wet" look on her face

Damn, my typing teacher was some dried up spinster.  I only passed because i agreed to go plant her easter lily bulbs during christmas break.  Still just eked by with like 60 wpm with extended time.  

23 hours ago, hookemATL said:

Let’s work out a trade where each immigrant is swapped out for any American citizen that does not return the cart to the designated area at the grocery store.

I mean seriously.   I'm in the parking lot headed into the store.  Why not take a basket back in with me?  Need the damned exercise anyway.  

17 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

I have tried to remember the podcast of him and I can't. He was a postman between getting out of the army and doing music full time. Most of his early stuff was written while he was delivering mail. If you haven't heard Sam Stone...well go find it.

Hello in There.  

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

What a complete crock of shit.

 

So scared if Putin goes down Biden looks good and people start uncovering all the russian money trails into the red coffers.   (this statement probably deserves a comma or two, but fuck it if I can figure out where.)

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by pyrohornIII

[Hornius Emeritus 12403]

42 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Nsiap 

I don't know why but that just killed me.

[David Dennison 18608]

1 hour ago, disgustipated said:

I have seen several assessments that indicate that Putin has no political off ramps at this point. If that is true, the question is longer if but when we will take military action.  Talks of chemical weapons is driving more ambiguity in US responses.  And new airstrikes into western Ukraine is upping the ante. Shouldn’t we be mobilizing a credible response on the Poland border in the event entry into Ukraine is warranted or at least as a credible counterattack deterrent to Putin?  

Btw, anyone remember the time, the US undertook a military operation that entered the airspace of another nuclear power?

We won't be taking military action as long as this remains in Ukraine.

[jimmyjazz 45513]

43 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

I don't know why but that just killed me.

Beauty amid chaos.  Gets me every time.

[Underdog 28437]

18 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Hey grandpa why aren't you doing curbside pickup?

Order the shit on the app. 

Tell the wife you are going to nthe grocery store.

Hit nearby bar for 3 beers.

Curbside at HEB.

Go home.

 

 

 

[Satchel 6908]

57 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

I don't know why but that just killed me.

Me too…because this war makes no sense on any level.

[SaucyJack 3484]

1 hour ago, pyrohornIII said:

Damn, my typing teacher was some dried up spinster.  I only passed because i agreed to go plant her easter lily bulbs during christmas break.  Still just eked by with like 60 wpm with extended time.  

I mean seriously.   I'm in the parking lot headed into the store.  Why not take a basket back in with me?  Need the damned exercise anyway.  

Hello in There.  

So scared if Putin goes down Biden looks good and people start uncovering all the russian money trails into the red coffers.   (this statement probably deserves a comma or two, but fuck it if I can figure out where.)

 

You'll need a listing comma and an oxford comma.  I got your point, though.

[956 Worldwide 34314]

2 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

I don't know why but that just killed me.

Speaking Russian at home and when vulnerable, too.  This shit is important, to understand that the justifications of protecting Russian language and Russians are bullshit. 

[Hornius Emeritus 12403]

4 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

So scared, if Putin goes, down Biden looks good and, people, start uncovering all, the, russian money, trails into the re,d coffers.   (this statement probably deserves a comma or two, but fuck it if I can figure out where.)

 

FIFY

[cactusflinthead 27593]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

1 hour ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

,F,I,F,Y,

,F,I,F,Y,

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

,F,I,F,Y,

U

G

L

Y

 

You ain't got no alibi you ugly yeah yeah you ugly.

 

[Nivek 16808]

 

Olds love propaganda.

[Satchel 6908]

I learned earlier today that US pharmaceutical companies have a carve out and are still selling life saving drugs and medical equipment to Russia. Ethicists are split over the moral conundrum this arrangement presents. Some object to potentially withholding drugs to innocent Russians on moral grounds, while others support halting sales in a time of war. 

While acknowledging the difficulty of this situation, the US position should be to place the decision squarely in Putin’s hands. Either he stops targeting and killing innocent Ukrainians or drug and medical equipment sales to his people stop. We should make clear the choice is his to make.

[pyrohornIII 4801]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

I learned earlier today that US pharmaceutical companies have a carve out and are still selling life saving drugs and medical equipment to Russia. Ethicists are split over the moral conundrum this arrangement presents. Some object to potentially withholding drugs to innocent Russians on moral grounds, while others support halting sales in a time of war. 

While acknowledging the difficulty of this situation, the US position should be to place the decision squarely in Putin’s hands. Either he stops targeting and killing innocent Ukrainians or drug and medical equipment sales to his people stop. We should make clear the choice is his to make.

Or charge a hefty surcharge and excess profits go to fund Ukraine resistance. 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

6 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

Or charge a hefty surcharge and excess profits go to fund Ukraine resistance. 

So charge them American prices?

[Guest Lobo]

10 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

So charge them American prices?

Or you let Russia use your CVS rewards card.  They'll probably lose it though.

[Hookah Horns 3058]

20 hours ago, disgustipated said:

I have seen several assessments that indicate that Putin has no political off ramps at this point. If that is true, the question is longer if but when we will take military action.  Talks of chemical weapons is driving more ambiguity in US responses.  And new airstrikes into western Ukraine is upping the ante. Shouldn’t we be mobilizing a credible response on the Poland border in the event entry into Ukraine is warranted or at least as a credible counterattack deterrent to Putin?  

Btw, anyone remember the time, the US undertook a military operation that entered the airspace of another nuclear power?

The only possible off ramp I can see is Ukraine giving up the Donbas and Crimea, which they've pretty much already lost. I'm not sure if Ukraine will agree to that yet, but I suspect they will eventually. But a big question is whether Russia would agree to any terms that don't include the termination of sanctions. 

 

Regarding your last question....Pakistan doesn't have ICBMs that can make it here.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Hookah Horns