Do you think the US military should protect Ukraine?

[SL Xpress 7,513]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

He’s sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars and nukes. He has a lot of leverage to negotiate his departure from power to somewhere that will take his money…if he isn’t murdered by one of his own.

Putin will only leave power when he's dead. There is no where he can go which could ensure his safety or his wealth. It's one of the key weaknesses of authoritarian regimes over democracy. Succession is very often a messy messy business.

[Underdog 28,632]

5th Option:  Fuck it.  Push the button, Joe. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

54 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

Putin will only leave power when he's dead. There is no where he can go which could ensure his safety or his wealth. It's one of the key weaknesses of authoritarian regimes over democracy. Succession is very often a messy messy business.

The dude just hosted an Olympics. There’s plenty of places that would be happy to take his money, and plenty of folks willing to “guarantee” his safety if he walks.

[CHIEF 5,087]

There needs to be a "bounty" on disabling Russian nukes. Any crew that renders a nuke inoperable gets to split $10,000,000 between them when they present the control circuitry to any NATO nation. They are free to spend it in the NATO nation of their choice. 

CHIEF

[SL Xpress 7,513]

Just now, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

The dude just hosted an Olympics. There’s plenty of places that would be happy to take his money, and plenty of folks willing to “guarantee” his safety if he walks.

I do not see this as a realistic possibility. He doesn't want to leave Russia. He's Russian through and through. If he had a choice between money and power, he's taking power every time.

Thinking about it, China would be safe. But does Putin want to live the rest of his life in China? I just don't see it. 

The amount of repressive dictators who get to live out their lives in peace after abdicating power is extremely short. People would come after his money in different ways. Plenty of people would want to see him killed to remove him as a potential threat or as revenge for what he did. Most importantly, Putin isn't want to give up power, and he's going to understand the risks. You feeling confident he'd be safe is not the same as Putin feeling he'd be safe. I don't see him taking the chance. He'll die in office.

[Wulaw Horn 19,070]

3 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

Putin will only leave power when he's dead. There is no where he can go which could ensure his safety or his wealth. It's one of the key weaknesses of authoritarian regimes over democracy. Succession is very often a messy messy business.

Narcos does a good job exploring this- how does a drug dealer retire or go legit?  It’s basically impossible. Same for dictators. 

[Buzzrock 14,920]

Earlier today:

[SL Xpress 7,513]

4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Narcos does a good job exploring this- how does a drug dealer retire or go legit?  It’s basically impossible. Same for dictators. 

That's an excellent point. Same reason. Give up your base of power, you give up any reasonable expectation of being secure. To get that power in the first place, and then keep it, requires you to do things that people aren't going to exactly forgive and forget.

Another segue, but that's one of the things I've felt was so remarkable about China's government for 30 years. 3 successive peaceful transfers of power by a totalitarian central committee until Xi took over. Krushchev living for 7 years after being deposed was also pretty remarkable, so it does happen. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,070]

2 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

That's an excellent point. Same reason. Give up your base of power, you give up any reasonable expectation of being secure. To get that power in the first place, and then keep it, requires you to do things that people aren't going to exactly forgive and forget.

Another segue, but that's one of the things I've felt was so remarkable about China's government for 30 years. 3 successive peaceful transfers of power by a totalitarian central committee until Xi took over. Krushchev living for 7 years after being deposed was also pretty remarkable, so it does happen. 

Yeah. But that’s a little different. It’s a first among equals kind of thing on the politburo. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,070]

9 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Earlier today:

Staggering. 4 days ago that was completely opposite. 

[SL Xpress 7,513]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah. But that’s a little different. It’s a first among equals kind of thing on the politburo. 

 

Kind of. It depends on whose on first, so to speak. I don't think anyone on Stalin's politburos felt like they were equals. Same thing with Xi. Not saying he has the same lock on power Stalin did. That's dumb. But depending on how things go over the rest of his life, he might. He certainly seems to aspire to it. Lots of corruption for him to weed out still, especially among political rivals. 

And Brezhnev died in office even while being increasingly ineffective towards the end of his life. The difference for Krushchev (and later Gorbachev) is that he simply wasn't seen as any kind of legitimate threat, so he was allowed to live.

[Wulaw Horn 19,070]

18 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

 

Kind of. It depends on whose on first, so to speak. I don't think anyone on Stalin's politburos felt like they were equals. Same thing with Xi. Not saying he has the same lock on power Stalin did. That's dumb. But depending on how things go over the rest of his life, he might. He certainly seems to aspire to it. Lots of corruption for him to weed out still, especially among political rivals. 

And Brezhnev died in office even while being increasingly ineffective towards the end of his life. The difference for Krushchev (and later Gorbachev) is that he simply wasn't seen as any kind of legitimate threat, so he was allowed to live.

Yeah- they purposely stepped back from the power Stalin had with the politburo and wanted to keep that from ever happening again, my suspicion is allowing K to live out his life after not running shit was calculated to that end. 
agree on china- they’ve passed the collegiality point that they saw from Mao to Xi and moved back to one man rule and away from first among equals collegiality/standard bureaucratic infighting and pettiness. That’s my read anyway. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

28 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Staggering. 4 days ago that was completely opposite. 

Yup.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

I think most people assumed it would be another Crimea. They would just give up and join Russia.

Once it was shown they are proud patriots who believe in democracy and were ready to fight against the fascist twats and die for their country. That pretty much gets everyone on board. 

[LongestHorn 759]

I’m all-in on US support of Ukraine 🇺🇦 insurgents with ammunition, explosives, TOW, Javelin, spike strips or anything else that will cripple Russia troops.  Paging Inka.

[Brew 3,049]

16 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Staggering. 4 days ago that was completely opposite. 

People see the will of the people there standing up against the aggressor which changes sentiment. For so long we’ve been involved in regime change in places that may or may not want it, that defending the proverbial “David” sounds like a good idea at the moment. Now that everyone has seen that Ukraine isn’t just going to roll over, we’ll probably start hearing more of a call to up our level of help. Part of me would hate to ever see boots on the ground there, the other part of me says it’s time to wreck shop on Putin even though it is a terribly bad idea. 

[Buzzrock 14,920]

I think most people assumed it would be another Crimea. They would just give up and join Russia.
Once it was shown they are proud patriots who believe in democracy and were ready to fight against the fascist twats and die for their country. That pretty much gets everyone on board. 

I might be repeating myself, but there hasn’t been this clear-cut a case of good guys and bad guys on the Western world stage since WWII.

[Chad 1,728]

Supporting Ukraine with intelligence, fuel, ammo, medical supplies and anti tank munitions is fine. No boots on the ground, no air support.

[Bolero88 277]

20 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

Earlier today:

Jesus, that's scary. I have absolutely 0 interest in a war with Russia, and those that do are absolute fools. Talk about drinking the kool-aid.

[aggie08 21,504]

Yeah, but this is America: how many of that 77% truly understands that "NATO" means American soldiers going to war?

[SL Xpress 7,513]

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

I might be repeating myself, but there hasn’t been this clear-cut a case of good guys and bad guys on the Western world stage since WWII.

I don’t understand this. Maybe it’s your use of the Western stage. I certainly saw both Russia invading Afghanistan to prop up their puppet government and the US invading Afghanistan after the World Trade Center attack as very clear cut. I also saw the United Nations action in Korea as good versus bad. The British Falklands war against a corrupt regime in Argentina. The siege of Sarajevo. There are others, but the West wasn’t as involved. 

[Sgt Hulk 13,716]

I’m active duty. I’m tired of deploying. But I did tell the bosses boss I know for certain my skill set is going to go down range if/when it happens. So I said sign me up.  But I don’t see us going. I’ll save my opinions on leadership because of this sites left leaning roots. But we won’t go. We may provide support. Maybe a silent investor types. But this won’t be a Middle East thing If it does I’m retiring 

[Harrison Stafford 3,335]

Initially, I was a ‘Hell no’ vote.  However, watching the Ukrainians fight for their country, I’ve changed my mind.  Send in the special Ops and make the Russians eat shit.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

As the mother of a newly minted Marine, I can’t answer this question honestly.

Luckily, his MOS won’t have him on the frontlines and he’s still got 18 months at his schoolhouse before his first fleet deployment/PDS.

He finishes at Geiger on Wednesday and then is off to Pensacola.

He said his instructors “joked” that they should brush up on their Russian language skills.

When I spoke to him today he said he could feel a change in the atmosphere and attitudes of the higher ups over the weekend.

He also said he kind of wished he was going into Infantry because he absolutely loved the stuff they did during MCT.

I’ve never been more thankful that his recruiter salivated over his ASVAB score and pushed him into choosing the MOS he did.

[Guest]

On 2/26/2022 at 3:55 PM, Buzzrock said:

Earlier today:

Translation:  The Euros wish the US would do something militarily...but they want their name on it so they can claim they did something too.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

10 minutes ago, slorch said:

Translation:  The Euros wish the US would do something militarily...but they want their name on it so they can claim they did something too.

Would they not be sending their sons and daughters to war as well? You’ve always made clear your appreciation for those that serve and the sacrifice they and their families make…does that appreciation not extend to Allies?

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Would they not be sending their sons and daughters to war as well? You’ve always made clear your appreciation for those that serve and the sacrifice they and their families make…does that appreciation not extend to Allies?

The answer to your question is yes. But that was not the point of my post.

if everyone’s pulling their own weight, we’re good.  

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by slorch

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

16 minutes ago, slorch said:

The answer to your question is yes. But that was not the point of my post.

if everyone’s pulling their own weight, we’re good.  

 

Seems like this is one of those instances where everyone is, which shouldn’t be surprising as Europe has a lot more to lose than us in this case. As opposed to the ME wars we foolishly started and asked folks to throw in some token troops so we could pretend like it was a global campaign.

[StruggleBus 3,922]

On 2/26/2022 at 3:55 PM, Buzzrock said:

Earlier today:

That’s so unbelievably retarded

[troph 24,797]

On 2/26/2022 at 4:04 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

Staggering. 4 days ago that was completely opposite. 

I told folks on the main thread a few days ago to look forward a couple of days sentiment was going to change. It was moving rapidly in real time then.

Edited February 28, 2022 by troph

[gmr548 16,580]

No. Some of y’all have seen a few too many war movies.

[Gatorubet 30,238]

Big problem for many Americans if gas prices go up.
Bigger problem for all Americans is the dishonesty from politicians on why gas/anything prices go up.

I just recycled the 30 gallons in my hurricane season gas storage tank (old fuel in my cars, new bought today) - and refilled my six 5 gallon NATO steel cans. All no ethanol gas with fuel stabilizers. Good task after waking from my long afternoon drunk nap from early morning Fat Tuesday shenanigans.

A bit early for storm season, but it might be more expensive soon. And small chance of grid failure.

[Gatorubet 30,238]

Yes to weapons, supplies, money, intelligence, and advice for Ukraine.
Yes to any and all sanctions for Russia.
No to any physical involvement.