Fuck cops and their enablers, reason elentybillion

[crash_davis 23096]

Video of the incident. Read the article. Fuck that police department, fuck the mayor.

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/putnam/brewster/2022/03/10/brewster-police-officer-caught-camera-violent-confrontation/6915561001/

Quote

Alexander King didn't like how he was treated when Brewster police Officer Fernando Quinones gave him a traffic ticket one afternoon last fall.

So King went to police headquarters to file a civilian complaint against Quinones, prompting a confrontation in the parking lot that ended with King's arrest.

A short video recording of the encounter, made by King, appears to show Quinones with his hand at King's neck and raises questions about the officer's account in the criminal charges. 

King now intends to sue Brewster, the police department and Quinones, alleging false arrest and excessive force and accusing the cop of filing a false complaint to cover up what he contends was the wrongful arrest.

"He wears a gun and a badge but that doesn't give him the authority to make up lie after lie about people," King said in an interview. "This guy does not get to ruin my life over multiple, multiple lies."

The video led New York State Police to investigate Quinones. The investigation was closed in February with no criminal charges brought against the officer.

District Attorney Robert Tendy would not comment on the state police probe, but said there was still an ongoing investigation by his office.

 

Quinones faced no discipline and likely will not based on the investigation, police Chief John Del Gardo told The Journal News/lohud. Mayor James Schoenig, shown the video on March 2, defended the officer's actions and said he thought the video showed Quinones grabbing King by the shoulder, not the neck.

"That's a tactic you use to arrest somebody," Schoenig said. "Does Freddy's hand slide? You can't tell." 

Shortly before 3 p.m. on Oct. 28, 2021, Quinones pulled King over on Route 22 and gave him a ticket for using a cellphone while driving. Schoenig said the body cam footage from the traffic stop included King getting out of his car and going to his trunk despite the officer's directive to stay inside.  

There was no alleged crime at the scene. But according to the criminal complaint Quinones later filed, King yelled profanities and made obscene gestures at him and then followed the officer back to headquarters. In the parking lot, the officer claimed, King again cursed at him and told him he was waiting for his lawyer.

As King walked to the police station, Quinones pulled up in his patrol car and got out.

"I'd watch what you do, I'm going in to see your supervisor," King warned Quinones, according to the video.

"Are you?"

"Yeah. Yeah I am."

"Go ahead. Go ahead. Because if you ..."

"I'm going in because you said you were going to bash my face."

The video shows Quinones then grabbed at the cellphone and moved to arrest King, with his hand near King's neck before getting King to the ground.

King was handcuffed and taken inside. He was charged with third-degree attempted assault, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct.

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It's unclear whether Quinones knew King was recording, and if he did, whether or not he believed the confrontation had been captured on video. 

But in the court document, he claimed to have told King that the chief was inside to take the complaint and that the "Defendant then advanced at officer with his fist clenched yelling (two-word expletive)." Quinones, "fearing for his safety," then told King to get on the ground, that he was under arrest. The officer claimed to have grabbed King by the shirt and pulled him down to control him.

Whatever King may have said initially in the parking lot, the video did not show him utter any expletive right before the officer became aggressive. And while the recording does not show King's hands the entire time, it does show him holding car keys and a driver's license in his right hand and the phone in his left.

King said he managed to turn the phone off as he was on the ground – otherwise he believes Quinones would have been able to erase the video. 

The recording, though limited, does appear to back up King's version of events and suggests that "the officer was the aggressor" in this instance, according to Gideon Orion Oliver, a New York City-based civil rights attorney who frequently handles cases involving police misconduct. (He is not connected to this case.)

"The narrative that the officer gave in the last few sentences of the [criminal] complaint was about the alleged physical aggression," he noted. "We just don't see that in the video. It's just not there."

Oliver said that police officers are generally trained on a use-of-force continuum, where the expectation is that they will deploy less aggressive tactics before escalating into more serious displays of force.

"You start with the minimum amount of force that you need to meet the threat and then you escalate if you need to, in order to gain compliance," he explained. However, Quinones "goes from zero to 60 in a very short period of time."

Quinones did not respond to messages left for him on his phone and at police headquarters. 

He has been a Brewster police officer since 2016. He retired in 2012 after 23 years in the Yonkers Police Department. His annual pension from that job is $114,000 and he earns $25 an hour for the part-time work in Brewster.

King's notice of claim that he intended to sue came a month after an unrelated scandal broke involving a 15-year veteran of the department. Wayne Peiffer was suspended following his arrest on federal charges accusing him of protecting a prostitution and sex trafficking ring in exchange for sexual favors. That case is pending.  

 

Quinones previously pulled King over during a traffic stop on Oct. 4. After King drove off, Quinones went to his Brewster home to give him additional tickets for how he pulled away. King wasn't there but his father then brought him to headquarters, where he was charged with reckless driving, after Quinones said he had fishtailed away from the traffic stop, ran a red light and sped off. 

The notice of claim alleges that Quinones assaulted him at that time. King said that Quinones hit his head against a wall while he was handcuffed to a bench. 

King suggests that Del Gardo, who was present at the time, knew his officer was out of line because he told Quinones to just release King on a desk appearance ticket.

Del Gardo said last week that was not the case, that he just wanted King out of the station because he was unruly.

"It was mind-boggling," Del Gardo said. "He was on our bench screaming his head off."

Del Gardo said last week he had not been informed the state police had wrapped up their probe. Quinones has faced no disciplinary action as a result of King's complaint and Del Gardo said he almost certainly wouldn't if cleared of criminal wrongdoing. 

But the chief acknowledged that the first time he saw the entirety of King's recording was last week when reporters showed it to him. He said he had previously only viewed a snippet shown him by state police.

He was noncommittal about the recording. And he wouldn't answer specific questions about it while the investigation was pending.

"Officers some times have to do things when making an arrest, if the person isn’t wanting to be arrested," he commented.

The department does not yet have body cameras for every employee, but Quinones and another officer use their own "for their protection," Del Gardo said. Footage from the body cams is logged on police department computers.

Both the chief and the mayor said it was their understanding that Quinones' body cam was not turned on during the confrontation in the parking lot. Del Gardo said Quinones turns on the body cam when he makes traffic stops and that he did so to issue King the ticket for cellphone use.

But when The Journal News/lohud filed a Freedom of Information Law request seeking any of Quinones' dashboard-cam and body-camera footage from Oct. 4 and Oct. 28, the village's terse reply was that it was "not in possession of any document or record responsive to this request."

Del Gardo suggested the request should have been denied because of the ongoing investigation. But he also did not think village officials ever told him about the FOIL request or asked him if there was footage from those two days. 

The Journal News/lohud has appealed the village's denial of access to any of Quinones’ dashboard- and body-camera video footage from the two dates requested, which is currently under review.

A state police spokesman said only that the investigation covered both King's allegation of excessive force and whether Quinones filed a false complaint and that it was closed in February with no criminal charges filed. The Journal News/lohud also submitted a FOIL request to the state police for any video footage in this case, which is under review.

King had taken the video he captured on his cellphone to state police but said he wasn't surprised they chose not to charge Quinones.

"It's the Blue backing the Blue," King said.

A day after a cordial conversation about the case in his office with The Journal News/lohud, Del Gardo was at the front desk when he told a reporter he was refusing to talk further about it, suggesting the press "twists his words."

Two other police officers at the desk area reiterated that the chief wasn't supposed to say anything. One even shuttled the chief into his office after Del Gardo said he hadn't been told the investigation was closed. 

The mayor, Schoenig, said the department handled the matter properly by letting an outside agency investigate King's claim to show it wasn't "being brushed under the carpet." He said he supported Quinones and that his actions were justified if state police found no crime was committed.

In charging King with disorderly conduct, Quinones referenced a highway department employee who witnessed the confrontation and thought Quinones was going to be assaulted. That was the basis for the disorderly conduct charge against King.

The mayor would not identify the employee but said King had gone to the highway department three times to confront who he thought was the witness. King denies doing that. 

The mayor said that after hearing the witness' account and seeing King's behavior on the body cam footage, "I'm leaning very favorably towards my cop."

 

[crash_davis 23096]

another cop from the same PD was busted for protection and sex trafficking. was doing it for more than 8 years.

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/crime/2021/12/14/brewster-police-officer-arrested-prostitution-sex-trafficking-ring/8893779002/

[52-80 19144]

Fuck that guy. Enjoy your unemployment, fatty

[crash_davis 23096]

Just now, 52-80 said:

Fuck that guy. Enjoy your unemployment, fatty

nothing is going to happen to him. already found to have done nothing wrong, especially with the eye witness accounts of other upstanding police officers who witnessed the interaction that the victim was the aggressor. yea, fuck that whole lot.

[hobbes2702 13029]

Weird that such a thing would get covered up and buried by the police. I wonder if this is some kind of systemic issue and it just bad apples. If only we could do something about this. We probably could but then everyone would spend all their time arguing about the slogan instead of fixing the problems.

[Captainant 27625]

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Fuck that guy. Enjoy your unemployment, fatty

Lmao. Cops don't face consequences. He'll get a couple weeks paid vacation, worst case scenario is he moves to a smaller and more desperate town to continue his career in bullying.

[crash_davis 23096]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

Weird that such a thing would get covered up and buried by the police. I wonder if this is some kind of systemic issue and it just bad apples. If only we could do something about this. We probably could but then everyone would spend all their time arguing about the slogan instead of fixing the problems.

if you don't suck cop dick, you hate freedom. i think the further a dude can swallow, the more he loves freedom.

[52-80 19144]

4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

nothing is going to happen to him. already found to have done nothing wrong, especially with the eye witness accounts of other upstanding police officers who witnessed the interaction that the victim was the aggressor. yea, fuck that whole lot.

At minimum the report he filed was false

[DigglerontheHoof 21175]

Cops are scumbags, example #...too many to count. 

[SL Xpress 7513]

Law enforcement is inherently going to attract people who are more inclined to abuse power. 

They can rationalize it by feeling like they put their lives on the line for everyone else and are entitled to a higher level of respect simply for wearing the uniform. 

I don’t know that the current strategy of society demonizing police officers is a good solution, either, however. Not every cop is a bad cop. Most of them are just trying to do their jobs. Some of them feel like de-escalation shows weakness, or puts police officers’ lives at risk. 

I do know it makes little sense to me to do anything that risks being seen as an escalation when involved with law enforcement. My strategy has always been to be as non threatening and excessively polite as possible. I’d recommend it for anyone. 

I also have a great deal of respect for people who choose law enforcement for a career. It always shocks me to a certain degree when that sentiment isn’t shared, especially when it’s violently not shared, but I’ve seen it enough to know it’s a common point of view these days. I hope somehow we figure out a way to turn that around in the future, whatever that may take. It’s not healthy for a functioning society to have an automatic hate for people responsible for maintaining order. It’s not healthy to have an automatic love regardless of what they do, either, so it goes both ways. 

[Doc Reeves 6434]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

another cop from the same PD was busted for protection and sex trafficking. was doing it for more than 8 years.

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/crime/2021/12/14/brewster-police-officer-arrested-prostitution-sex-trafficking-ring/8893779002/

 

The city of Leon Valley laughs at this

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

17 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

I don’t know that the current strategy of society demonizing police officers is a good solution, either, however. Not every cop is a bad cop. Most of them are just trying to do their jobs. Some of them feel like de-escalation shows weakness, or puts police officers’ lives at risk. 

 

If you consider cops who actively pull bad shit, I would agree that not every cop is a bad cop. If you broaden this to cops who don't do anything to stop/curb this behavior, re-hire bad cops, back-the-blue over all else, etc., I don't know how you can draw any conclusion other than the large majority of cops are bad cops. How many times do bad cops actually receive any consequences of note?

[hobbes2702 13029]

1 hour ago, SL Xpress said:

Law enforcement is inherently going to attract people who are more inclined to abuse power. 

They can rationalize it by feeling like they put their lives on the line for everyone else and are entitled to a higher level of respect simply for wearing the uniform. 

I don’t know that the current strategy of society demonizing police officers is a good solution, either, however. Not every cop is a bad cop. Most of them are just trying to do their jobs. Some of them feel like de-escalation shows weakness, or puts police officers’ lives at risk. 

I do know it makes little sense to me to do anything that risks being seen as an escalation when involved with law enforcement. My strategy has always been to be as non threatening and excessively polite as possible. I’d recommend it for anyone. 

I also have a great deal of respect for people who choose law enforcement for a career. It always shocks me to a certain degree when that sentiment isn’t shared, especially when it’s violently not shared, but I’ve seen it enough to know it’s a common point of view these days. I hope somehow we figure out a way to turn that around in the future, whatever that may take. It’s not healthy for a functioning society to have an automatic hate for people responsible for maintaining order. It’s not healthy to have an automatic love regardless of what they do, either, so it goes both ways. 

That makes them a bad cop. 
Their job isn’t to “maintain order”. Thinking like that is why cops act like they do.

Edited March 11, 2022 by hobbes2702

[SL Xpress 7513]

8 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

That makes them a bad cop. 
Their job isn’t to “maintain order”. Thinking like that is why cops act like they do.

That is absolutely any law enforcements’ job. That is their role in the system. Any system. 

[Jerry Callo 8695]

3 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

That is absolutely any law enforcements’ job. That is their role in the system. Any system. 

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.

[SL Xpress 7513]

55 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

If you consider cops who actively pull bad shit, I would agree that not every cop is a bad cop. If you broaden this to cops who don't do anything to stop/curb this behavior, re-hire bad cops, back-the-blue over all else, etc., I don't know how you can draw any conclusion other than the large majority of cops are bad cops. How many times do bad cops actually receive any consequences of note?

Not often. But the justice system is always going to do a terrible job of policing itself. And then you have the unions, of course. That’s a huge part of it. 

[hobbes2702 13029]

13 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

That is absolutely any law enforcements’ job. That is their role in the system. Any system. 

No it isn’t. Their job is to enforce the law. It’s a small difference in language but it is extremely important. “Maintaining order” is how we get cops acting outside the law

[Bigbend1812 12915]

Fuck that guy

[SL Xpress 7513]

9 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

No it isn’t. Their job is to enforce the law. It’s a small difference in language but it is extremely important. “Maintaining order” is how we get cops acting outside the law

A very small part of a police officer’s career is actually enforcing the law. In a well functioning society, their presence acts as a deterrent so the laws (the appropriate ones, at least) aren’t broken in the first place. The fewer needed for that, the better.  

The absence of police is not about the absence of enforcement. It’s about the absence of deterrence. There is no way for them to reasonably catch the ones responsible for most criminal acts in any case. 

We get cops acting outside the law because the profession tends to attract people with certain character traits. Those people form powerful tribes within the department at various levels, often including the top. Then you have an entire department whose culture tends toward abuse. 

If we’re committed to stopping that, pay higher wages and do better psychological screening. There will be unintended consequences, but each society has to figure out what it wants to prioritize, and frankly those priorities often change over time. 

[hookemATL 11701]

FAC. Fucking fascist pieces of shit. The only reason Colonel Fucktard did that shit is because he know he is getting off scot free, even with video evidence. Only reasonable and fair result here is for that shitbag to be in jail and to never work in LE again. We all know the opposite will happen. Fuck him and the bootlickers. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19187]

4 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.

 

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

6 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

 

I also have a great deal of respect for people who choose law enforcement for a career. It always shocks me to a certain degree when that sentiment isn’t shared, especially when it’s violently not shared, but I’ve seen it enough to know it’s a common point of view these days. 

 

4 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

We get cops acting outside the law because the profession tends to attract people with certain character traits. Those people form powerful tribes within the department at various levels, often including the top. Then you have an entire department whose culture tends toward abuse. 

 

I'm not sure this says what you think it does about what you respect.

[HOOKEM4 5036]

I rue the day I have to explain to my kids that their lives are nothing to the cops. I will tell the story of how I committed the smallest of traffic violations when i was 16 and ended up on the wrong end of a sheriff's bad day. Ended with me being choke slammed into the back of my suv and essentially reminded my life was worthless. Yes sir and compliance means nothing when they want to assert dominance over a minor. Godspeed young man.

Fuck the police.

[SL Xpress 7513]

19 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

 

I'm not sure this says what you think it does about what you respect.

I have a great deal of respect for people who choose to join the military, but there are plenty of folks with the same kind of character traits there, too. 

At the end of the day the human race is filled with a cornucopia of character traits passed down from evolution, both after it became a bipedal species and before. All of them have survived that journey through millions of years because they served a purpose. We have not evolved to build the kind of systems of civilization we have, other than our brain is a remarkable organ that is capable of reprogramming over some of our instincts in ways unavailable to any other species.

The key thing we do have are instinctual needs to bend to various socialization pressures. When people talk about the culture of entire police departments that countenance abuse, the socialization forces have gone in the wrong direction in terms of how the general public is viewed. To establish the kind of police departments we seem to want to exist, we have to create systems and incentives designed to produce that. Demonizing police work as a career path is not going to do that. 

I’ll also say that it’s not like police departments have suddenly gotten worse. Dynamics being described have existed since the birth of the country, and are present in every country in the world. This is a default setting of law enforcement in a society - period - so if we truly want it changed we have to be very deliberate and very specific about how it’s changed, and even then there will be unintended consequences. The least abusive police forces exist in highly developed, highly educated homogenous societies, which the US doesn’t have. So we’ll have to come up with a new formula if we’re committed to getting this done  

To me the biggest degree of polarization in this country is the divide between those who feel like the US has been a special place throughout its history, and though with obvious faults, has been a great country to be born in, and has been overall a force for good, versus people who feel like the country is steeped in evil, is abusive with its power, and needs to make fundamental changes. The arguments regarding how evil cops are dovetails with this. 

If people want to change the dynamics that exist within police forces, change the screening, and change the incentives for behavior. But the path we’re on merely leads to more polarization, more bitterness on both sides. And that inevitably leads to the breakdown of society. 

[achooloco 1067]

7 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

Law enforcement is inherently going to attract people who are more inclined to abuse power. 

They can rationalize it by feeling like they put their lives on the line for everyone else and are entitled to a higher level of respect simply for wearing the uniform. 

I don’t know that the current strategy of society demonizing police officers is a good solution, either, however. Not every cop is a bad cop. Most of them are just trying to do their jobs. Some of them feel like de-escalation shows weakness, or puts police officers’ lives at risk. 

I do know it makes little sense to me to do anything that risks being seen as an escalation when involved with law enforcement. My strategy has always been to be as non threatening and excessively polite as possible. I’d recommend it for anyone. 

I also have a great deal of respect for people who choose law enforcement for a career. It always shocks me to a certain degree when that sentiment isn’t shared, especially when it’s violently not shared, but I’ve seen it enough to know it’s a common point of view these days. I hope somehow we figure out a way to turn that around in the future, whatever that may take. It’s not healthy for a functioning society to have an automatic hate for people responsible for maintaining order. It’s not healthy to have an automatic love regardless of what they do, either, so it goes both ways. 

You don't think the piggy Quinones deserves to be demonized? Cause you sure white washed the entire incident with a bunch of tangential unnecessary info.

[HOOKEM4 5036]

9 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

I have a great deal of respect for people who choose to join the military, but there are plenty of folks with the same kind of character traits there, too. 

At the end of the day the human race is filled with a cornucopia of character traits passed down from evolution, both after it became a bipedal species and before. All of them have survived that journey through millions of years because they served a purpose. We have not evolved to build the kind of systems of civilization we have, other than our brain is a remarkable organ that is capable of reprogramming over some of our instincts in ways unavailable to any other species.

The key thing we do have are instinctual needs to bend to various socialization pressures. When people talk about the culture of entire police departments that countenance abuse, the socialization forces have gone in the wrong direction in terms of how the general public is viewed. To establish the kind of police departments we seem to want to exist, we have to create systems and incentives designed to produce that. Demonizing police work as a career path is not going to do that. 

I’ll also say that it’s not like police departments have suddenly gotten worse. Dynamics being described have existed since the birth of the country, and are present in every country in the world. This is a default setting of law enforcement in a society - period - so if we truly want it changed we have to be very deliberate and very specific about how it’s changed, and even then there will be unintended consequences. The least abusive police forces exist in highly developed, highly educated homogenous societies, which the US doesn’t have. So we’ll have to come up with a new formula if we’re committed to getting this done  

To me the biggest degree of polarization in this country is the divide between those who feel like the US has been a special place throughout its history, and though with obvious faults, has been a great country to be born in, and has been overall a force for good, versus people who feel like the country is steeped in evil, is abusive with its power, and needs to make fundamental changes. The arguments regarding how evil cops are dovetails with this. 

If people want to change the dynamics that exist within police forces, change the screening, and change the incentives for behavior. But the path we’re on merely leads to more polarization, more bitterness on both sides. And that inevitably leads to the breakdown of society. 

I imagine dealing with you on a daily basis is a joy. Jesus fucking christ. Wall of text. You are a beating.

[SL Xpress 7513]

Just now, achooloco said:

You don't think the piggy Quinones deserves to be demonized? Cause you sure white washed the entire incident with a bunch of tangential unnecessary info.

Sure. Looks like a typical cop abusing his authority to me, the system designed to back him doing so, and a naive kid not understanding how the real world works. I don’t think this is going to lead to a restructuring, which is what needs to happen. My guess is the people of that town - or at least the ones in power - likely have the kind of police force they want, but I don’t know that.

Abusive people suck in nearly every context. They’re also a part of life. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stand up to them. I’d just caution people to pick their spots, or else galvanize a lot of support first. Otherwise it’s going to make for a bad day.

I’m speaking to the general demonization of all police. Or did you not catch that theme reading the other posts on this thread?

[SL Xpress 7513]

7 minutes ago, HOOKEM4 said:

I imagine dealing with you on a daily basis is a joy. Jesus fucking christ. Wall of text. You are a beating.

Most of my time is spent figuring out how I can get you to like me more. 

[hookemATL 11701]

16 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

I have a great deal of respect for people who choose to join the military, but there are plenty of folks with the same kind of character traits there, too. 

At the end of the day the human race is filled with a cornucopia of character traits passed down from evolution, both after it became a bipedal species and before. All of them have survived that journey through millions of years because they served a purpose. We have not evolved to build the kind of systems of civilization we have, other than our brain is a remarkable organ that is capable of reprogramming over some of our instincts in ways unavailable to any other species.

The key thing we do have are instinctual needs to bend to various socialization pressures. When people talk about the culture of entire police departments that countenance abuse, the socialization forces have gone in the wrong direction in terms of how the general public is viewed. To establish the kind of police departments we seem to want to exist, we have to create systems and incentives designed to produce that. Demonizing police work as a career path is not going to do that. 

I’ll also say that it’s not like police departments have suddenly gotten worse. Dynamics being described have existed since the birth of the country, and are present in every country in the world. This is a default setting of law enforcement in a society - period - so if we truly want it changed we have to be very deliberate and very specific about how it’s changed, and even then there will be unintended consequences. The least abusive police forces exist in highly developed, highly educated homogenous societies, which the US doesn’t have. So we’ll have to come up with a new formula if we’re committed to getting this done  

To me the biggest degree of polarization in this country is the divide between those who feel like the US has been a special place throughout its history, and though with obvious faults, has been a great country to be born in, and has been overall a force for good, versus people who feel like the country is steeped in evil, is abusive with its power, and needs to make fundamental changes. The arguments regarding how evil cops are dovetails with this. 

If people want to change the dynamics that exist within police forces, change the screening, and change the incentives for behavior. But the path we’re on merely leads to more polarization, more bitterness on both sides. And that inevitably leads to the breakdown of society. 

Or they could just…you know…not brutalize and murder people for no reason. It’s not a high standard. Do your job, without committing what would be felonies for every other member of the public. When you have a monopoly on violence you don’t really get (or should get) the benefit of the doubt or any leeway whatsoever. Why do the individuals that should be held to the highest standard wrt their interactions with the public almost always seems to skate when they violate their “oath”?

 

Don’t like dealing with criminals and shitbag members of the public? Don’t be a cop. Especially if you are a mental midget that can’t handle stress without lashing out like a fucking child. FAC

[SL Xpress 7513]

22 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

Or they could just…you know…not brutalize and murder people for no reason. It’s not a high standard. Do your job, without committing what would be felonies for every other member of the public. When you have a monopoly on violence you don’t really get (or should get) the benefit of the doubt or any leeway whatsoever. Why do the individuals that should be held to the highest standard wrt their interactions with the public almost always seems to skate when they violate their “oath”?

 

Don’t like dealing with criminals and shitbag members of the public? Don’t be a cop. Especially if you are a mental midget that can’t handle stress without lashing out like a fucking child. FAC

Then hire people who are capable of that and incentivize them to behave that way. That’s not what the system does. That’s not what it’s ever done.

Screen. Pay more. Probably hire more. Train differently. The preponderance of training right now is about assuming hostility from anyone you come in contact with and how to aggressively manage it, Instead, recognize and reward people for deescalating. Acknowledge the cost of that could be more dead cops. 

We’ve always relied on meeting staffing needs, that part of the perk of the job is having power over others. It gets entrenched in the culture. The culture is going to inherently back one another in very powerful ways. 

We have the law enforcement we deserve. If we want something different demonizing it as a career won’t give us that. Change how the system operates. It shouldn’t be defund the police. It should be give the police more funding but in ways that reduces the abuse. 

[achooloco 1067]

41 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

Sure. Looks like a typical cop abusing his authority to me, the system designed to back him doing so, and a naive kid not understanding how the real world works. I don’t think this is going to lead to a restructuring, which is what needs to happen. My guess is the people of that town - or at least the ones in power - likely have the kind of police force they want, but I don’t know that.

Abusive people suck in nearly every context. They’re also a part of life. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stand up to them. I’d just caution people to pick their spots, or else galvanize a lot of support first. Otherwise it’s going to make for a bad day.

I’m speaking to the general demonization of all police. Or did you not catch that theme reading the other posts on this thread?

I haven't demonized any pig that didn't deserve it. But can't say I agree that the real world should allow for battery of a civilian following the law and exercising their constitutional right to criticize/file a complaint. That's not the real world, thats dystopian hell hole.

[SL Xpress 7513]

The US is far from a dystopian hell hole. We could become one, but we’re not there yet. That said, the world is full of whistle blowers at all levels who did the right thing, stood against some kind of wrong doing they witnessed or experienced, and had their lives ruined for it. Which is why when the good guys win, it should be celebrated. Because it’s very far from a given. 

In general, the more aggressive, the more ambitious, the more confrontational personalities are going to be the most successful. Those personalities are the ones most prone to abuse. They also create environments where it’s countenanced and rewarded, so the cycle continues. We’re never getting rid of that dynamic. The best we can do is work within that constraint. I feel like we do that in this country to a remarkable degree. But it’s never going to be perfect. 

[Captainant 27625]

1 hour ago, SL Xpress said:

We have the law enforcement we deserve. If we want something different demonizing it as a career won’t give us that. Change how the system operates. It shouldn’t be defund the police. It should be give the police more funding but in ways that reduces the abuse. 

Just because something exists does not make it right or what we deserve. Law enforcement exists in the capacity of does today because of the war on drugs. The war on drugs exists because Nixon wanted a a way to target blacks and hippies.

We need to be honest and address that fact if there's ever going to be a meaningful change from the posture of an occupying force.

[SL Xpress 7513]

18 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Just because something exists does not make it right or what we deserve. Law enforcement exists in the capacity of does today because of the war on drugs. The war on drugs exists because Nixon wanted a a way to target blacks and hippies.

We need to be honest and address that fact if there's ever going to be a meaningful change from the posture of an occupying force.

So you think law enforcement was a different animal prior to Nixon? Newsflash - it wasn’t. 

The difference today is there are way more avenues for publicizing police abuse that used to get swept under the rug. Not the war on drugs. If you’re saying you wish you could rewind the clock to reinstate the Pollyanna police forces of the 60s, I have a lovely Manhattan area bridge I’d like to sell you. 

[Captainant 27625]

1 minute ago, SL Xpress said:

So you think law enforcement was a different animal prior to Nixon? Newsflash - it wasn’t. 

The difference today is there are way more avenues for publicizing police abuse that used to get swept under the rug. Not the war on drugs. If you’re saying you wish you could rewind the clock to reinstate the Pollyanna police forces of the 60s, I have a lovely Manhattan area bridge I’d like to sell you. 

Not sure how you could read my post and think I'm implying that police forces should go back to pre-civil rights era policing.

[crash_davis 23096]

ramblings of an old man.

[SL Xpress 7513]

Just now, crash_davis said:

ramblings of an old man.

Probably. But if what’s going on right now is an example of the country making progress I think it will be a progress we learn to regret unless the extremes on both sides can be marginalized somehow. And the extremes love using inflammatory language like fuck the police or make America great again. Same tribal behavior. Same hatred mobilizing action. Same demonizing. Same rhetoric of the other side representing existential threats. Same coin, just different sides of it. 

[SL Xpress 7513]

17 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Not sure how you could read my post and think I'm implying that police forces should go back to pre-civil rights era policing.

Not sure what you’re saying. You’re saying they exist the way they do because of the war on drugs. I’m saying that’s not true. It’s always been this way since people started forming communities large enough to require a police force. 

[Nicole44 22057]

@Constant has offered multiple times for a ride on. He’s one of the good guys! On our forum! 

[crash_davis 23096]

5 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

Probably. But if what’s going on right now is an example of the country making progress I think it will be a progress we learn to regret unless the extremes on both sides can be marginalized somehow. And the extremes love using inflammatory language like fuck the police or make America great again. Same tribal behavior. Same hatred mobilizing action. Same demonizing. Same rhetoric of the other side representing existential threats. Same coin, just different sides of it. 

That's a lot of cock sucking. All your bullshit is to excuse cops being a fucked up gang hiding behind a badge. You continue making excuses, we'll continue to prove you wrong time and again as these stories like those on this thread and on this forum come to light.

[RPM 26315]

16 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

Not every cop is a bad cop.

Just the ones with tiny dicks that were bullied throughout their lives. The rest cover for the former. But other that that, it's just a few bad apples.

[SL Xpress 7513]

18 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

That's a lot of cock sucking. All your bullshit is to excuse cops being a fucked up gang hiding behind a badge. You continue making excuses, we'll continue to prove you wrong time and again as these stories like those on this thread and on this forum come to light.

How is that proving me wrong? What’s your solution? 

I’m saying this same dynamic has existed since the very first enforcement group was created at the dawn of civilization. There’s nothing new here except the greater ability to document it. And yet what people are doing as a reaction will not only not change anything, it’s going to make this country worse.

Screen for the traits you want in a police officer, as well as the ones that you want kept off the force. Increase the pay substantially. Increase the training to deescalate. Incentivize successful deescalations. Measure the effects, both in terms of police abuse and in terms of crime rate, especially violent crime rates  

But demonizing every cop as a whole creates a bunker mentality. There will be a reaction, not just from cops, but from the more conservative segments of society. We see it every day. And then what they do creates another reaction. None of this is healthy. It’s very dangerous. We’re heading in the wrong direction as a society. Railing about how every pig is either a psychopathic scumbag or an enabler is not actually helpful. It’s destructive. 

[SL Xpress 7513]

22 minutes ago, RPM said:

Just the ones with tiny dicks that were bullied throughout their lives. The rest cover for the former. But other that that, it's just a few bad apples.

So how do you eliminate - or at least lessen the number of - the former from the police force?  I don’t agree that they were necessarily bullied all their lives. They might have been the bully. At any rate they liked the idea of feeling like they had power over other people. It’s actually an extremely common trait. 

[RPM 26315]

1 minute ago, SL Xpress said:

So how do you eliminate - or at least lessen the number of - the former from the police force?

Prosecute them (and those that cover for them) to the full extent of the law when they break it instead of giving them a paid vacation. Make the civil judgements against them be paid out of the police retirement fund instead of making the city foot the bill. That's 2 good places to start.

[SL Xpress 7513]

Sure. But I still say it’s better to screen at the outset. One of the issues is that violence and aggression are at the heart of many police cultures. And prosecutors feel like they’re killing their careers by going after law enforcement. It’s difficult to get convictions, and just the act of attempting it results in a frozen relationship with people needed to do your job. The only time it occurs is when the public outrage reaches a significant level.

But certainly more successful prosecutions would send a message. 

Not sure how you make it a law that civil judgements are paid out of the retirement fund. That sounds completely unrealistic. I understand what you’re going for there, but it wouldn’t ever fly. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21175]

Step 1:  Eliminate cop unions

[RPM 26315]

2 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

That sounds completely unrealistic.

So does taxpayers having to foot the bill for bad cops.

[Pam Cummings 9639]

I'm all about punishing bad cops. But it is a very interesting thing to me that a lot of the same people who bemoan the erosion of trust in our country's institutions also have an attitude of "fuck all cops" or "ACAB". 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, RPM said:

Prosecute them (and those that cover for them) to the full extent of the law when they break it instead of giving them a paid vacation. Make the civil judgements against them be paid out of the police retirement fund instead of making the city foot the bill. That's 2 good places to start.

Terminate the employment of the executive/ leadership level employees who have inexcusable "whoopsies" happen under their watch.  This shit isn't just rogue officers and outliers.

Change the culture from the top down.  Stop blaming/ excusing the pawns.

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

3 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

Increase the pay substantially

Why?  What’s wrong with the current level of pay?  It is also one of the few careers left  that has a pension. 
 

the subject of this very thread gets $114,000 in pension from his previous force and is out there getting paid by this current municipality and potentially building up another 20 year pension. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Pato del Muerto