West Point Football players OD on Fentanyl-laced cocaine on SB in Florida

[NeverMarryAStripper 21875]

34 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

 and attempting to drown his ex wife in a bath tub.

is that considered wrong?

[Al_4_ISU 12452]

1 minute ago, Texzilla58 said:

Addictions run in both my wife’s family and mine. Our son is 41 and overcame his issues about ten years ago. Anyway when he started 2nd grade he had a shitty teacher. For some reason we were getting calls about behavior problems which he had not exhibited in first grade or daycare previous.

Wife went to meet the fairly new teacher. She complained about his behaviors and it was basic 6 yr old stuff. Fidgeting, running outside, talking too much to his friends. She said all the boys were “bad” and needed to act like the girls. Then produced some brochures and wanted her to sign a release to give him adderall at school. My wife got in her face and told her if she touched our son or ever gave him as much as a cookie she would fuck her up so bad she’d be in the hospital for a year wishing she had just killed her.

No more issues. And that was the only problem with a teacher he ever had. We had great relationships with all his teachers the rest of the way. We’re always supportive but the drugging of kids is way overboard.

100%.  Your son is 5 years older than me and a lot of kids from our era just had ADD meds shoved down their throat in school.  My brother was put on it in college (a frequent source for my recreational use) and it seemed to help for a month before he just quit going to class and started to spend entire days smoking cigarettes and playing guitar.  Eventually he flunked out of ISU, and then spent a year out west where he quit Adderall, and then came back to ISU where he graduated on the Dean's list.

[Al_4_ISU 12452]

Just now, NeverMarryAStripper said:

is that considered wrong?

[Paco 1934]

Wasn’t expecting this many people to support loud obnoxious military types buying shitty drugs from randos during spring break

Show us on the doll where the mean army man touched you

[Eggo 3977]

3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

100%.  Your son is 5 years older than me and a lot of kids from our era just had ADD meds shoved down their throat in school.  My brother was put on it in college (a frequent source for my recreational use) and it seemed to help for a month before he just quit going to class and started to spend entire days smoking cigarettes and playing guitar.  Eventually he flunked out of ISU, and then spent a year out west where he quit Adderall, and then came back to ISU where he graduated on the Dean's list.

He got a demo tape I could snag? 

[Al_4_ISU 12452]

4 minutes ago, Eggo said:

He got a demo tape I could snag? 

Playing guitar all day doesn't make you good at it if you don't have any underlying musical talent.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Al_4_ISU

[StassneyHorn 6574]

2 hours ago, Paco said:

On 3/15/2022 at 5:23 PM, StassneyHorn said:

Wasn’t expecting this many people to support loud obnoxious military types buying shitty drugs from randos during spring break

Show us on the doll where the mean army man touched you

It’s well known that military personnel are dregs on society

[Texzilla58 4732]

100%.  Your son is 5 years older than me and a lot of kids from our era just had ADD meds shoved down their throat in school.  My brother was put on it in college (a frequent source for my recreational use) and it seemed to help for a month before he just quit going to class and started to spend entire days smoking cigarettes and playing guitar.  Eventually he flunked out of ISU, and then spent a year out west where he quit Adderall, and then came back to ISU where he graduated on the Dean's list.

This gets back to this “pharmaceuticals are medicine” and “doctors approve” mentality that folks put so much faith in this crap. Teachers demanding use of brain chemistry altering powerful drugs and fucking speed to 6 year olds. Had some parents defend it. “But it’s not like they’re pushing ‘drugs!’

My wife has PTSD from seeing her 5yr old brother set afire accidentally at a family cookout by her father when she was 10. The stories she tells of his screams as they debrided his burns at the country ER is the most horrific story I’ve ever heard. Why they kept her in the room I’ll never understand, but her mother was a diagnosed narcissist schizophrenic (no one in the family knew until wife got POA for her ten years ago). Her father was just a spineless broken drunk. After the fire there was no family counseling, therapy, or training. No PTSD treatment as it didn’t exist. It turned into a house of horrors that my wife escaped to a marriage at 16.

Anyway back around 2002 she started having various health issues emanating from fibromyalgia (which I believe emanates from the PTSD). She would go to different docs and all of them gave her different diagnoses: depression, woman issues, bipolar, adhd, personality disorder, and kept pushing her all kinds of fucking antidepressants that made her fucking crazy. The more I researched I kept telling her that she had a thyroid problem. Her docs would tell her but your test came back fine. Doctors hate thyroid issues because they are a pain in the ass and in the end most remedies are a 12 cent pill. Finally she went to an endocrinologist. Fucking thyroid cancer. Thanks docs for fucking with my wife’s brain for no reason. I am of the opinion that antidepressants should be harder for a doctor to prescribe than pain meds, and that primary care docs should be banned from handing them out. Only trained psychiatrists should be using them. The reality is that most of these conditions can be solved with sunshine, exercise, diet, good activities and behavioral therapies. And using them for off card treatments should be carefully monitored. I’ve had docs want to give me anti depressants for restless leg, nerve pain, and nail fungus. Fuck that shit. No I don’t need cymbalta, or Effexor, Or Prozac for that. Do you get a spiff on your scripts for that shit?

[Al_4_ISU 12452]

6 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

It’s well known that military personnel are dregs on society

[Leeroy Jenkins 2402]

49 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

It’s well known that military personnel are dregs on society

Yep.  We sure are that type.  Sorry I blew my load on your moms face.  I can see it still hurts.  

[StassneyHorn 6574]

Yea that response really proved to the board I was wrong

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

5 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

Addictions run in both my wife’s family and mine. Our son is 41 and overcame his issues about ten years ago. Anyway when he started 2nd grade he had a shitty teacher. For some reason we were getting calls about behavior problems which he had not exhibited in first grade or daycare previous.

Wife went to meet the fairly new teacher. She complained about his behaviors and it was basic 6 yr old stuff. Fidgeting, running outside, talking too much to his friends. She said all the boys were “bad” and needed to act like the girls. Then produced some brochures and wanted her to sign a release to give him adderall at school. My wife got in her face and told her if she touched our son or ever gave him as much as a cookie she would fuck her up so bad she’d be in the hospital for a year wishing she had just killed her.

No more issues. And that was the only problem with a teacher he ever had. We had great relationships with all his teachers the rest of the way. We’re always supportive but the drugging of kids is way overboard.

I wish I had been put on them at some point. Not six -- who gives a shit about grades then? And yeah, at that age it's more about making shit easy for horrible teachers than really helping kids. But I am legit ADD, and I really believe it would have helped me in HS and college. I just can't focus on shit I don't find interesting, like most science and most math, under normal circumstances, but on Adderall and such, I find everything interesting. And I am able to slow my brain down and take things step by step.

My son is the same, and we have similar stories, though not as dramatic, about his teachers. And after HS he was going off the rails -- experimenting with every drug under the sun but mainly just smoking weed and playing video games. We got him a script for Vyvanse and that helped him a lot, but he still needed something more 'cause he was still fucking around. Total lack of confidence because most of his life up to that point had been sort of low-key disappointments and little failures....So he was still being a pain in the ass so we forced him into the army and they turned his ass around in boot camp, permanently. He's just had an entirely different demeanor ever since. He's still the same smartass and very kind kid he ever was, but he walks tall now and has a confident swagger. Still taking Vyvanse and is now back in college and kicking ass on the school newspaper -- over all my objections, he is following me into my shitty career choice. Oh yeah, and his a total dreg on society. (Fuck right the way off, @StassneyHorn; I am sorry your parents didn't care enough about you to raise you right.)

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Playing guitar all day doesn't make you good at it if you don't have any underlying musical talent.

Raises hand sheepishly. I did this in HS. Played "along with" my albums until my fingers literally bled and developed calluses just like Stevie Ray Vaughan but never learned to even tune a guitar or more than like two chords. Which I played out of tune. I might as well have been destroying my fingertips on sandpaper for all those many hours of "practice" did me on guitar.

On the other hand, when I am on Adderall, I can actually play harmonica. It stuns other people and myself when I've picked one up high and actually played well. Again, it's about focus. I can narrow down to my role in a band rather than trying to play everybody's part at the same time. 

[XYZ 2154]

I understand why somebody would potentiate a depressant such as heroine with a more powerful depressant like fentanyl, but would somebody lace a stimulant (cocaine) with fentanyl? Doesn’t make sense. Must be accidental contamination.

[Texzilla58 4732]

Raises hand sheepishly. I did this in HS. Played "along with" my albums until my fingers literally bled and developed calluses just like Stevie Ray Vaughan but never learned to even tune a guitar or more than like two chords. Which I played out of tune. I might as well have been destroying my fingertips on sandpaper for all those many hours of "practice" did me on guitar.
On the other hand, when I am on Adderall, I can actually play harmonica. It stuns other people and myself when I've picked one up high and actually played well. Again, it's about focus. I can narrow down to my role in a band rather than trying to play everybody's part at the same time. 

Im not saying these drugs don’t have their place, they certainly do and kids with these symptoms should be thoroughly tested and prescribed the right meds. ADHD is a spectrum just like autism. At the same time some kids might just need glasses, or an engaging teacher, or hearing aids, or be dealing with total shit at home. Back in the 80’s these drugs came out in prominence and many teachers were eager to dive in. That’s bullshit. We were prepared to withdraw our son for private school had the school been adamant about dosing kids. Back then some districts with expel kids if parents refused teacher diktat.

Our son joined the Air Force on graduation at 17 and it was the best thing ever for him. The amount of responsibility and accountability the military piles on young folks is what they need; at 18 he was a crew chief on a B52 with a team reporting to him. The only real issue I had with the military was it encourages drinking to build camaraderie; my kid lived that part too much.
I paid his GI Bill and he’s gotten his BA and Masters when he got out; he’s a civilian with the Air Force now and they’ll send him for an MBA.

[crash_davis 23101]

The situation is pretty fucking serious. UT Austin giving students, staff and faculty free Narcan.

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/education/university-of-texas/university-of-texas-narcan-students-staff-faculty-free/269-c48ea0db-409b-47c9-988d-30dd6256d7eb

Quote

AUSTIN, Texas — The University of Texas said it is now providing a potentially life-saving medication used to reverse the effects of an opioid overdose for free to everyone on campus.

In addition to being available for emergency access in all on-campus residence halls, Narcan, or naloxone, is now available for free to UT students, faculty and staff at the Perry-Castañeda Library in the form of a nasal spray.

 

The move comes after Austin-Travis County EMS (ATCEMS) saw at least 12 people taken to the hospital early this month due to drug overdoses. There were a total of seven incidents in the downtown area, and two people died on the scene.

RELATED: Veterinary drug identified in series of overdoses in Downtown Austin

Healthyhorns tweeted on Thursday that the Perry-Castañeda Library is both a distribution hub and emergency access point, meaning it can be picked up for immediate use or to take home for potential later use.

 

[crash_davis 23101]

tried to delete but too late. i posted that in a thread in Daily Texas forum. this topic is probably better served there and not in the football board.

[Sgt Hulk 13713]

On 3/17/2022 at 3:14 PM, StassneyHorn said:

It’s well known that military personnel are dregs on society

Which one of me and my boys fucked your wife mom and sister at the same time fgt

[Sgt Hulk 13713]

On 3/17/2022 at 4:04 PM, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Yep.  We sure are that type.  Sorry I blew my load on your moms face.  I can see it still hurts.  

High five 

[StassneyHorn 6574]

1 hour ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Which one of me and my boys fucked your wife mom and sister at the same time fgt

Proving my point. How’s your partial disability?

[Guest Lobo]

Can somebody with a pharma/medical background explain how Narcan and Fentanyl (and the drugs is laced upon) interact?  And wether this is a good idea or not from a public health standpoint? 

[Sawbonz 27542]

27 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Proving my point. How’s your partial disability?

Clearly not as bad as yours 

[Austinvines 316]

Can somebody with a pharma/medical background explain how Narcan and Fentanyl (and the drugs is laced upon) interact?  And wether this is a good idea or not from a public health standpoint? 

Just to be clear- you only want a pharma/med to answer whether it is a good idea “from a public health standpoint” to stop accidental overdoses through the use of Narcan?

[Guest Lobo]

I mean, what are the downsides to deploying narcan in a broader context?  Don’t act like Methadone clinics didn’t get all kinda blowback at first.  

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I mean, what are the downsides to deploying narcan in a broader context?  Don’t act like Methadone clinics didn’t get all kinda blowback at first.  

I am far from an expert in this area, but the biggest criticism I have seen of this is not from a direct medical interaction but rather that this can encourage use of narcotics if there is a "safety blanket" available. 

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, makes sense.  
 

thankfully we don’t give morbidly obese people insulin because doing so could cause them to continue over indulging in sugar.  

[Reynolds Woodcock 4739]

On 3/17/2022 at 8:58 AM, Al_4_ISU said:

 Pretty much every time I've done coke it was one line and then moving on with my night.

 

That is some serious willpower, my man.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

12 hours ago, Lobo said:

Can somebody with a pharma/medical background explain how Narcan and Fentanyl (and the drugs is laced upon) interact?  And wether this is a good idea or not from a public health standpoint? 

I'm neither.  But, I believe the mode by which opiates/oids kill most often is respiratory arrest.  The central nervous system gets so depressed that essentially your autonomous nervous system stops functioning correctly and you "forget to breathe."

Naloxone and Naltrexone are closely related and I have actually taken naltrexone and drank on it.  They are opiate-antagonist drugs.  And that means they block the opiate receptors in the brain so they cannot be bonded by opiates and the CNS depressive effect is reduced.

From what I understand, Naloxone is extremely fast-acting and blocks more opiate receptors than Naltrexone, but it doesn't last very long.  So it is particularly suited to quickly halting the effects of an opiate drug in the short term.  Naltrexone blocks fewer receptors, but acts for a longer time, making it suitable to reduce the effects of alcohol and opiates on the brain over hours, thus reducing the 'reward" for using.  I can vouch for the fact that it is harder to get fucked up drinking while taking Naltrexone.

As far as I know, neither drug can be abused, or has any particular adverse effects.

They are not like methadone or suboxone, which are actually narcotics and are effective by binding a relatively small number of opiate receptors over a long term, thus reducing cravings and postponing withdrawal without euphoria and stupor.  I believe that naltrexone is part of the formula for suboxone.

Edited March 19, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Guest]

On 3/17/2022 at 7:59 PM, Texzilla58 said:

I paid his GI Bill 

Say what?

[Al_4_ISU 12452]

That is some serious willpower, my man.

I have a pretty high bar for physical addiction. It’s pretty common for me to chew through a guy’s weekend bender and not touch the stuff again for months or while sober at all.

It’s not will power so much as I don’t have that craving hook. I’m 20-30 lbs heavier than I should be because I lack the will power to say no to the 3rd slice of pizza.

[Sgt Hulk 13713]

5 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I have a pretty high bar for physical addiction. It’s pretty common for me to chew through a guy’s weekend bender and not touch the stuff again for months or while sober at all.

It’s not will power so much as I don’t have that craving hook. I’m 20-30 lbs heavier than I should be because I lack the will power to say no to the 3rd slice of pizza.

I know a way that you’re familiar with to remove that 20lbs with a quickness 

[MuellerHorn 4228]

20 hours ago, Lobo said:

Can somebody with a pharma/medical background explain how Narcan and Fentanyl (and the drugs is laced upon) interact?  And wether this is a good idea or not from a public health standpoint? 

 

8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm neither.  But, I believe the mode by which opiates/oids kill most often is respiratory arrest.  The central nervous system gets so depressed that essentially your autonomous nervous system stops functioning correctly and you "forget to breathe."

Naloxone and Naltrexone are closely related and I have actually taken naltrexone and drank on it.  They are opiate-antagonist drugs.  And that means they block the opiate receptors in the brain so they cannot be bonded by opiates and the CNS depressive effect is reduced.

From what I understand, Naloxone is extremely fast-acting and blocks more opiate receptors than Naltrexone, but it doesn't last very long.  So it is particularly suited to quickly halting the effects of an opiate drug in the short term.  Naltrexone blocks fewer receptors, but acts for a longer time, making it suitable to reduce the effects of alcohol and opiates on the brain over hours, thus reducing the 'reward" for using.  I can vouch for the fact that it is harder to get fucked up drinking while taking Naltrexone.

As far as I know, neither drug can be abused, or has any particular adverse effects.

They are not like methadone or suboxone, which are actually narcotics and are effective by binding a relatively small number of opiate receptors over a long term, thus reducing cravings and postponing withdrawal without euphoria and stupor.  I believe that naltrexone is part of the formula for suboxone.

I am of the background you asked for and TwiceHorn explained this very well.

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, he did.  And I repped him for it and I'm wiser now on the science side.  It was a question asked two slightly different ways, but yeah-maybe redundant.  But I really don't see the harm.  We can always google shit, but I like asking questions on this site because invariably somebody will chime in with not only the correct answer, but if given time...also a perspective from experience or humor or original insight.  Part of the reason I like this place.  And most folks are fun as hell to tailgate with.  Feel free to skip all my questions in the future.   There's this badass feature that Immamac spent months developing.  Called "scrolling past"  Despite his nuclear football theory, I find the man to be quite innovating.  

Edited March 19, 2022 by Lobo

[BrickTop 474]

Can somebody with a pharma/medical background explain how Narcan and Fentanyl (and the drugs is laced upon) interact?  And wether this is a good idea or not from a public health standpoint? 

Narcan binds to the opioid receptors in the brain better than the actual opioid itself removing all opiod effects, the trick is you can’t give an addict the full dose or they’ll pretty much go into immediate withdrawals, they’ve been feathering it for years giving an apneic OD patient just enough to make them start breathing again but not wake up vomiting/fighting other withdrawal effects. It has a very short half life but pretty much erases all of the effects of opiod ingestion for that time.

[BrickTop 474]

Narcan binds to the opioid receptors in the brain better than the actual opioid itself removing all opiod effects, the trick is you can’t give an addict the full dose or they’ll pretty much go into immediate withdrawals, they’ve been feathering it for years giving an apneic OD patient just enough to make them start breathing again but not wake up vomiting/fighting other withdrawal effects. It has a very short half life but pretty much erases all of the effects of opiod ingestion for that time.

And yea it removes all the euphoric effects people who were very very high just moments before they tend to be highly confused/pissed off

[Guest]

On 3/17/2022 at 2:14 PM, StassneyHorn said:

It’s well known that military personnel are dregs on society

Interesting hill to die on.

My experience is that military folks seem to be like another general citizen... because that is who they are.

 

Now, if you want to badmouth Marines for having a shit-ton of stickers on the cars, well, we own that shit( although i have zero on my vehicle.) I wear Army or Navy shirts about 4 days out of the week because of my sons and have zero fucks to give about whether or not that bothers pissants like you..

Edited March 20, 2022 by slorch

[Texzilla58 4732]

Say what?

They had a program when he exited boot camp in 87 where if you paid up front you got your GI bill benefits without a payroll deduct. Cost me $1800. I was feeling a bit guilty he enlisted instead of going to school but it was the best decision for him.

He’s used it to get his BA and MA, and the Air Force wants to send him for an MBA. He’s weighing that option. Great bargain. No debt.

[StassneyHorn 6574]

25 minutes ago, slorch said:

Interesting hill to die on.

My experience is that military folks seem to be like another general citizen... because that is who they are.

 

Now, if you want to badmouth Marines for having a shit-ton of stickers on the cars, well, we own that shit( although i have zero on my vehicle.) I wear Army or Navy shirts about 4 days out of the week because of my sons and have zero fucks to give about whether or not that bothers pissants like you..

Thank you for your service

[Assman 1830]

On 3/17/2022 at 2:14 PM, StassneyHorn said:

It’s well known that military personnel are dregs on society

Be sure to let your pilots know this the next time you step on an airplane.

[USNALonghorn 5078]

On 3/17/2022 at 3:14 PM, StassneyHorn said:

It’s well known that military personnel are dregs on society

What branch does your wife’s boyfriend serve in?

[StassneyHorn 6574]

1 hour ago, Assman said:

Be sure to let your pilots know this the next time you step on an airplane.

Oh that’s where pilots come from

[Nicole44 22059]

I will say this. This was Brandon Lee’s last interview on the set of The Crow before he was shot and killed. I do not use or take drugs. More power to you if that’s your deal. I keep going back to watching this  guy (Bruce Lee’s son) so happy to be in a role that fit him. Last 45 seconds of the video ( prophecy?)  bc the next day he was shot accidentally on the set. You are just fooling yourself if you think  drugs are the answer. Getting off my shit box of being mean. Either you are experimenting or am addict. I get the social shit but that’s a joke.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20392]

44 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I will say this. This was Brandon Lee’s last interview on the set of The Crow before he was shot and killed. I do not use or take drugs. More power to you if that’s your deal. I keep going back to watching this  guy (Bruce Lee’s son) so happy to be in a role that fit him. Last 45 seconds of the video ( prophecy?)  bc the next day he was shot accidentally on the set. You are just fooling yourself if you think  drugs are the answer. Getting off my shit box of being mean. Either you are experimenting or am addict. I get the social shit but that’s a joke.

 

Why are you harshing my buzz?

[Thrill 1]

8 hours ago, MuellerHorn said:

 

I am of the background you asked for and TwiceHorn explained this very well.

Can you elaborate? I'm going to assume if medical no more then a PA or LNP?

I'm asking because I read some of Sam Quinones' work....and not only is he not objective....he is a moron. He has zero understanding regarding addiction. Literally....his stance is we are too accommodating and polite to addicts. he reinforces his "deductions" being of dire need since he likens a drug user as someone who has dedicated their life to purely the self and caring for nothing or no one.

During the Vietnam war, there was a lot of concern in the states when it was realized how many service members were using heroin since that means we have all these heroin addicts coming back. Ironically, and to the dismay of Mr. Quinones' theories, almost all of them magically never touched the drug again when home. None of them needed "forced rehab under threat of criminal charges or force" as he contends. See, we're starting to understand that if you can get them to talk...you find that without fail an addict is someone who has something broken....whether from their past or something going on currently. And with people like that author out there saying anyone who uses a drug is unable to think for themselves and should be forcibly locked away....it can be hard to convince those people it's ok to ask for help. I'm sure he's an excellent law enforcement journalist (it's why he knows so many in LE), but he literally cites their opinions and obviously didn't care to educate himself. When he called P2P meth a new super drug invented to replace ephedrine reacted meth.....that alone told me he's not anyone worth listening to.

And no......cartels aren't putting fentanyl into drug to hook buyers in the states. Cartels generally prefer to avoid any "extracurricular" attention from US law enforcement, and adding an extremely dangerous synthetic opiate to everything they sell would do just that. Most deaths you hear about from opiate overdose, and I mean the vast majority, weren't caused by opiates. They were caused from mixing the opiate with some form of a benzo (xanax).

Granted, I'm not a doctor.....that's my wife. She's the MD. I'm just a automation robotics nerd. Still, I'm a bit disappointed after reading all posts as I was wondering if anyone else had seen the problem with the reported story as I had.....

They did not have that reaction from fentanyl or cocaine. Being as how all sources I can find reporting on the story can't confirm suspicion that fentanyl was present merely suspected makes the obvious even more glaring....they were inadvertently poisoned with something I'm sure the dealer thought would fool them into thinking they were getting real cocaine long enough for them to get their money and leave. Whatever they got stopped their hearts, which is not how an opiate overdose works. Opiates when taken too much will make you sleepy....and when you go to sleep your system is to suppressed to remember to breath..and you suffocate. You don't just fall over with your heart stopping. And while too much cocaine can cause cardiac arrest, those circumstances don't lead to people assuming there was anything in your cocaine but cocaine. And while technically possible to be affected by fentanyl just by virtue of being around it....you'd have to be indoors, poor ventilation, cramped quarters, and someone literally taking a bag of it and shaking it around to get it in the air. Which solidifies it more for me....they bought bad dope from a wannabe drug dealer.

But if people would rather have faith that there is an alliance of evil who wakes up hating "your freedoms" and are constantly trying to drug you to either kill or subjugate you....LOL....have it

[TwiceHorn 31440]

4 hours ago, Thrill said:

Can you elaborate? I'm going to assume if medical no more then a PA or LNP?

I'm asking because I read some of Sam Quinones' work....and not only is he not objective....he is a moron. He has zero understanding regarding addiction. Literally....his stance is we are too accommodating and polite to addicts. he reinforces his "deductions" being of dire need since he likens a drug user as someone who has dedicated their life to purely the self and caring for nothing or no one.

During the Vietnam war, there was a lot of concern in the states when it was realized how many service members were using heroin since that means we have all these heroin addicts coming back. Ironically, and to the dismay of Mr. Quinones' theories, almost all of them magically never touched the drug again when home. None of them needed "forced rehab under threat of criminal charges or force" as he contends. See, we're starting to understand that if you can get them to talk...you find that without fail an addict is someone who has something broken....whether from their past or something going on currently. And with people like that author out there saying anyone who uses a drug is unable to think for themselves and should be forcibly locked away....it can be hard to convince those people it's ok to ask for help. I'm sure he's an excellent law enforcement journalist (it's why he knows so many in LE), but he literally cites their opinions and obviously didn't care to educate himself. When he called P2P meth a new super drug invented to replace ephedrine reacted meth.....that alone told me he's not anyone worth listening to.

And no......cartels aren't putting fentanyl into drug to hook buyers in the states. Cartels generally prefer to avoid any "extracurricular" attention from US law enforcement, and adding an extremely dangerous synthetic opiate to everything they sell would do just that. Most deaths you hear about from opiate overdose, and I mean the vast majority, weren't caused by opiates. They were caused from mixing the opiate with some form of a benzo (xanax).

Granted, I'm not a doctor.....that's my wife. She's the MD. I'm just a automation robotics nerd. Still, I'm a bit disappointed after reading all posts as I was wondering if anyone else had seen the problem with the reported story as I had.....

They did not have that reaction from fentanyl or cocaine. Being as how all sources I can find reporting on the story can't confirm suspicion that fentanyl was present merely suspected makes the obvious even more glaring....they were inadvertently poisoned with something I'm sure the dealer thought would fool them into thinking they were getting real cocaine long enough for them to get their money and leave. Whatever they got stopped their hearts, which is not how an opiate overdose works. Opiates when taken too much will make you sleepy....and when you go to sleep your system is to suppressed to remember to breath..and you suffocate. You don't just fall over with your heart stopping. And while too much cocaine can cause cardiac arrest, those circumstances don't lead to people assuming there was anything in your cocaine but cocaine. And while technically possible to be affected by fentanyl just by virtue of being around it....you'd have to be indoors, poor ventilation, cramped quarters, and someone literally taking a bag of it and shaking it around to get it in the air. Which solidifies it more for me....they bought bad dope from a wannabe drug dealer.

But if people would rather have faith that there is an alliance of evil who wakes up hating "your freedoms" and are constantly trying to drug you to either kill or subjugate you....LOL....have it

I'm not sure what you're on about.

The quoted post responded to my post about the mechanisms of Narcan (naloxone) and naltrexone, which was prompted by a question about the wisdom of distributing Narcan "to the masses."

 

[Deej 76755]

On 3/19/2022 at 8:33 AM, Reynolds Woodcock said:

That is some serious willpower, my man.

To be fair, it was a really big line.

 

[Guest]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:46 AM, NeverMarryAStripper said:

is that considered wrong?

You just need to prove consent…

[UDontKnow 10440]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm not sure what you're on about.

The quoted post responded to my post about the mechanisms of Narcan (naloxone) and naltrexone, which was prompted by a question about the wisdom of distributing Narcan "to the masses."

 

I don't think he had an issue of any of your posts. Just MuellerHorn's citing of Sam Quinones who is by no means any expert on addiction. For that matter, I wonder about MuellerHorn's expertise as well. 

[MuellerHorn 4228]

22 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

I don't think he had an issue of any of your posts. Just MuellerHorn's citing of Sam Quinones who is by no means any expert on addiction. For that matter, I wonder about MuellerHorn's expertise as well. 

I never asserted Quinones was an expert on addiction. I never even talked about the science or psychophysiology of addiction. Quinones has covered the drug trafficking industry in depth - that is what I was talking about. Quinones aside, there are many resources that discuss fentanyl making its way into other drugs. Thrill can attack credentials however he wants, but he surely didn't read my posts closely enough if he opines that I ever mentioned Quinones as anything other than someone who has closely covered the manufacturing, distribution, and effects of the illicit drug market.

This is straight from the DEA's website:

"Illicit fentanyl, primarily manufactured in foreign clandestine labs and smuggled into the United States through Mexico, is being distributed across the country and sold on the illegal drug market.  Fentanyl is being mixed in with other illicit drugs to increase the potency of the drug, sold as powders and nasal sprays, and increasingly pressed into pills made to look like legitimate prescription opioids.  Because there is no official oversight or quality control, these counterfeit pills often contain lethal doses of fentanyl, with none of the promised drug.

There is significant risk that illegal drugs have been intentionally contaminated with fentanyl.  Because of its potency and low cost, drug dealers have been mixing fentanyl with other drugs including heroin, methamphetamine, and cocaine, increasing the likelihood of a fatal interaction."

https://www.dea.gov/resources/facts-about-fentanyl

Edited March 20, 2022 by MuellerHorn

[MuellerHorn 4228]

32 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

I don't think he had an issue of any of your posts. Just MuellerHorn's citing of Sam Quinones who is by no means any expert on addiction. For that matter, I wonder about MuellerHorn's expertise as well. 

I never asserted Quinones was an expert on addiction. I never even talked about the science or psychophysiology of addiction. Quinones has covered the drug trafficking industry in depth - that is what I was talking about. Quinones aside, there are many resources that discuss fentanyl making its way into other drugs. Thrill can attack credentials however he wants, but he surely didn't read my posts closely enough if he opines that I ever mentioned Quinones as anything other than someone who has closely covered the manufacturing, distribution, and effects of the illicit drug market.

This is straight from the DEA's website:

"Illicit fentanyl, primarily manufactured in foreign clandestine labs and smuggled into the United States through Mexico, is being distributed across the country and sold on the illegal drug market.  Fentanyl is being mixed in with other illicit drugs to increase the potency of the drug, sold as powders and nasal sprays, and increasingly pressed into pills made to look like legitimate prescription opioids.  Because there is no official oversight or quality control, these counterfeit pills often contain lethal doses of fentanyl, with none of the promised drug.

There is significant risk that illegal drugs have been intentionally contaminated with fentanyl.  Because of its potency and low cost, drug dealers have been mixing fentanyl with other drugs including heroin, methamphetamine, and cocaine, increasing the likelihood of a fatal interaction."

Similar to other opioid analgesics, Fentanyl produces effects such as relaxation, euphoria, pain relief, sedation, confusion, drowsiness, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, urinary retention, pupillary constriction, and respiratory depression.

 

https://www.dea.gov/resources/facts-about-fentanyl

 

- - - - -

 

Look, if you get too big of a dose, you lose your respiratory drive and stop breathing. It's that simple.

If you don't like the simplicity, here is how fentanyl kills you: it binds to the endorphin-releasing receptors and your body cannot respond to low levels of oxygen or high levels of carbon dioxide.

Those are the two things that tell your brain — which controls your lungs — that you need to breathe. If the opioid is bound to those receptors, it cannot tell if the oxygen is low, or the carbon dioxide is too high, and you eventually stop breathing and die.

If you are taking a drug orally, you swallow it. This can take a while before it gets absorbed into the body. If you are injecting it or snorting it, it can happen a lot quicker, which is why people can OD so quickly with other drugs laced/contaminated/whatever word y'all want to use. Additionally, this is why second-hand exposure to fentanyl during an intervention is a dangerous risk.

Edited March 20, 2022 by MuellerHorn

[MuellerHorn 4228]

6 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

I never asserted Quinones was an expert on addiction. I never even talked about the science or psychophysiology of addiction. Quinones has covered the drug trafficking industry in depth - that is what I was talking about. Quinones aside, there are many resources that discuss fentanyl making its way into other drugs. Thrill can attack credentials however he wants, but he surely didn't read my posts closely enough if he opines that I ever mentioned Quinones as anything other than someone who has closely covered the manufacturing, distribution, and effects of the illicit drug market.

This is straight from the DEA's website:

"Illicit fentanyl, primarily manufactured in foreign clandestine labs and smuggled into the United States through Mexico, is being distributed across the country and sold on the illegal drug market.  Fentanyl is being mixed in with other illicit drugs to increase the potency of the drug, sold as powders and nasal sprays, and increasingly pressed into pills made to look like legitimate prescription opioids.  Because there is no official oversight or quality control, these counterfeit pills often contain lethal doses of fentanyl, with none of the promised drug.

There is significant risk that illegal drugs have been intentionally contaminated with fentanyl.  Because of its potency and low cost, drug dealers have been mixing fentanyl with other drugs including heroin, methamphetamine, and cocaine, increasing the likelihood of a fatal interaction."

Similar to other opioid analgesics, Fentanyl produces effects such as relaxation, euphoria, pain relief, sedation, confusion, drowsiness, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, urinary retention, pupillary constriction, and respiratory depression.

 

https://www.dea.gov/resources/facts-about-fentanyl

 

- - - - -

 

Look, if you get too big of a dose, you lose your respiratory drive and stop breathing. It's that simple.

If you don't like the simplicity, here is how fentanyl kills you: it binds to the endorphin-releasing receptors and your body cannot respond to low levels of oxygen or high levels of carbon dioxide.

Those are the two things that tell your brain — which controls your lungs — that you need to breathe. If the opioid is bound to those receptors, it cannot tell if the oxygen is low, or the carbon dioxide is too high, and you eventually stop breathing and die.

If you are taking a drug orally, you swallow it. This can take a while before it gets absorbed into the body. If you are injecting it or snorting it, it can happen a lot quicker, which is why people can OD so quickly with other drugs laced/contaminated/whatever word y'all want to use. Additionally, this is why second-hand exposure to fentanyl during an intervention is a dangerous risk.

As for the original article, it explicitly states "were hospitalized after overdosing on fentanyl-laced cocaine... the other two became exposed to it while performing mouth-to-mouth on their friends. Paramedics who responded to the scene at a vacation home used opioid-overdose-reversing drug naloxone - also known as Narcan - on the patients. Two men were rushed to the hospital in critical condition and had to be intubated."

All of this points to respiratory arrest from a fentanyl OD. If respiratory arrest remains without any treatment, cardiac arrest will occur within minutes of hypoxemia (low oxygen), hypercapnia(high CO2), or both.

Edited March 20, 2022 by MuellerHorn