Kids - to have them or not

[LTbear 4209]

Long story short, I'd love to hear honest pros and cons of having kids. My wife and I are getting closer to the age where we need to make the call. We both have always said we wanted kids, but we're also considering now how much of that is because we truly want kids, vs how much is because we grew up in a society that just expects that you want kids. We both grew up in places where it was "obvious" that being a parent is the greatest calling/ purpose one can strive for, and it's hard, sometimes, to separate what we want form what we've been taught we should want. 

I also think our society does an awful job of allowing parents to actually vent on the negatives of having kids. It seems that unless you know someone really, really well, that someone almost feels obligated to give you an answer that's some form of "the best thing I've ever done...". Yet when I speak with those who know they can trust me and know they won't be judged, their answers are much different. 

What say the Surlies - both with and without kids. What made your decision? What regrets do you have? Etc. Any and all thoughts are greatly appreciated. 

[mdmost 43848]

My wife had a decent line once when someone without kids who was thinking about trying asked her what it's like having a kid. She said, take the best parts of you and your spouse. Then add the absolute worst parts of you and your spouse. Then put them into a little small human who is completely dependent on you that has no ability to reason and no ability to communicate what they want from you. It's your job to keep that small human alive. If you're up for that challenge then you're ready to be a parent. 

Parenting can be very rewarding. It also can be incredibly challenging and amazingly thankless. I say that as the father of a teen girl who has had multiple issues and ongoing issues with depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety, anorexia, and self-harm. The pandemic and puberty brought a lot of terrible things out in my kid. Things that maybe were always there. She has ADHD and is possibly bi-polar. I've had to change my parenting style greatly in the past year because there are scary moments where things were hanging on by a thread. We've had a couple stays in inpatient facilities and tons of group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and doctors visits that have uprooted our lives considerably. My challenge right now is just keeping this kid alive because there's something there that's just making it hard for her to stay focused on the future. She has friends, she has interests, she's going to a magnet high school next year that she had to work hard to get into. She has a lot to live for. She is incredibly smart but that intelligence can be a massive problem because she's argumentative constantly. Then there's some weird thing that eats away at her in the latter parts of the day that causes the self-harm and suicidal thoughts to come out. This kid has had issues all her life, even going back to being a baby that couldn't sleep through the night without massive measures undertaken by the wife and I. She almost made us decide to not have another kid. But I'm so glad we did because my younger kid is the exact opposite. Easy to deal with, no issues with mental health (yet), very empathetic, loves the small things in life and finds beauty in most things. They are very yin and yang. The older one is definitely going to be successful in life if we can get her past this small moment in teendom. 

I love my kids. They've given me a sense of purpose that I didn't previously have. But it's definitely not all it's cracked up to be and that's okay. That's life. If you're unsure you want that then just delay further. Kids are definitely not for everyone and not everyone should have them. There's a lot you give up by being a parent. There's a lot more you get back by being a parent. My only regret is we didn't travel more before we had kids. I say that as we're packing to leave for Palo Duro Canyon today.  

[Guest]

^^^^^^^^^^ captures a lot of my sentiment as well.

 

My life would not be nearly as fulfilling and rewarding without my 2 sons, now 28 and 23.  When oldest son was 16-17 he asked us if he was "worth it," with some of the things we gave up because of the unplanned pregnancy that resulted in his birth( our wedding was 6 months before his birthday.)  No, i wouldn't change a fucking thing, even though some of the financial stuff was tougher than it otherwise would have been, later down the road.   I love everything about what it means to be a dad.  After their mom, I love nobody more on this hunk of rock than our sons.

That being said, I have no problem with people who choose not to have kids.  I honestly wish more people would make the same choice if they are not totally bought-in on being a parent. As with most big decisions in life, make sure you're doing it because it's what you and your S/O want.  It is too much freaking work and investment to be out of "duty" to someone else, or to give someone grandkids because that's what the script said.

 

[immamac 44198]

How much do you like your current life? If you still have a large social life and those friends don’t have kids and don’t plan to have kids soon you are going to be in for a serious change if you don’t want to be a bad parent. 
 

being a parent sucks (so far for 2 years). Your schedule completely revolves around a person who can’t tell you anything and needs structure to have healthy brain development. Sleeping in past 8AM on a good day is not even a thing. There is no such thing as spontaneous anything, example from just today: Monster Truck Jam is in austin at FEC, thought oh shit that would be cool and almost bought tickets, then realized I would have to go to Walmart with him to get ear protection (shopping with toddlers is hell)then park and get there only for it to be lunch time around the time we arrive, then I remembered you can’t take diaper bags and shit into FEC and everything needs to be in a clear backpack, which I don’t have because why the fuck would I. That means I’d have to be chasing a 2 year old who probably wants to walk around downtown austin with headphones in hand and trying to juggle that and buy food to give him. On top of all that he goes down for a nap after he eats at 1ish which is when the shit starts and who knows how he would react could be full meltdown could be awesome. Regardless it’s going to be awful when we leave because he’s going to fall asleep for 30 minutes on the way home if lucky and be cranky as fuck the rest of the day. I just decided fuck it we aren’t doing that. 

instead we get to pay 60 dollars to go to dinner and hang out for a few hours sans kid because there’s a parents night out thing at daycare. 
 

the pros are you have a cool human that you get to have a rewarding relationship and bond with, so far that’s pretty much the only pro I’ve experienced. I also don’t like kids generally speaking. I genuinely have no interest in monster jam, but it’s cool to see him experience things for the first time or experience things he likes. There is no way to feel the feelings you get when your kid is experiencing pure joy - it’s fascinating and incredible. Seeing them develop and seeing yourself and the mom in them is also mind bottlingly cool. Your brain gets rewired to get dopamine rushes from seeing your kid happy. You constantly thing of cool things to experience and do with them or teach them. It’s unbelievably rewarding. 
 

I just want to reiterate that it also destroys your “life”, your job now is to make sure their life doesn’t suck and your life becomes completely secondary. that trip to key west was the last time I had real alone adult time to myself to just do whatever the fuck I wanted without having to worry about anything. I get that freedom once every 2 years since the baby was born so far. 

[LTbear 4209]

17 minutes ago, mdmost said:

There's a lot you give up by being a parent. There's a lot more you get back by being a parent. My only regret is we didn't travel more before we had kids. I say that as we're packing to leave for Palo Duro Canyon today.  

I appreciate this. This is one of my primary concerns/ thoughts - it seems to me that when kids are young, for several years, your life IS your kids, which I'm not sure I can handle. I have an amazing and fulfilling life, doing things I could not do with young kids (for example, spending each weekend in freezing temperatures photographing and videoing wildlife in Yellowstone and Glacier). I worry about my mental ability to handle giving up so much that I've worked so long and hard for. 

Enjoy Palo Duro - absolutely amazing place. And if you have time on the trip, squeeze in a visit to Caprock Canyons, which is also gorgeous and has a bison herd.

[LTbear 4209]

7 minutes ago, slorch said:

 

That being said, I have no problem with people who choose not to have kids.  I honestly wish more people would make the same choice if they are not totally bought-in on being a parent. As with most big decisions in life, make sure you're doing it because it's what you and your S/O want.  It is too much freaking work and investment to be out of "duty" to someone else, or to give someone grandkids because that's what the script said.

 

Appreciate this too. I think a lot of people jump into having kids without 5% the thought and consideration they should have put in before making such a decision, because they simply believe it's "what you're supposed to do." I don't want to be like that. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Will she make the world's best mom?

[DCLonghorn 244]

 

*Disclaimer. I have six kids, always wanted kids, married a lady that always wanted kids. It was always the plan/goal/whatever for us. 

Can't imagine life without the kids. With hindsight, it didn't feel like life before kids was real life. Just practicing and growing up a bit. 

Kids are extremely malleable, durable, and adaptable. If you are into something you fear you might lose with kids, you just do it with the kids. Most don't...we don't. We molded our life around the kids and their activities. But many keep on doing what they love and drag the kids along. That's more of a choice than a requirement. If your dream is to follow the F1 circuit around the world, you can easily take the fam and homeschool or take a year off.  You want to sail around the world...plenty do that with kids.

But you will find that once you have kids, they way you analyze, prioritize, or even maintain you dreams/hobbies shift. Not because it has to, but because you want to. 

I used to travel to all the MLB ball parks. Now I'd rather watch my kids play sports then drag them to do my thing they may or may not give two shits about. 

[immamac 44198]

5 minutes ago, DCLonghorn said:

 

*Disclaimer. I have six kids, always wanted kids, married a lady that always wanted kids. It was always the plan/goal/whatever for us. 

Can't imagine life without the kids. With hindsight, it didn't feel like life before kids was real life. Just practicing and growing up a bit. 

Kids are extremely malleable, durable, and adaptable. If you are into something you fear you might lose with kids, you just do it with the kids. Most don't...we don't. We molded our life around the kids and their activities. But many keep on doing what they love and drag the kids along. That's more of a choice than a requirement. If your dream is to follow the F1 circuit around the world, you can easily take the fam and homeschool or take a year off.  You want to sail around the world...plenty do that with kids.

But you will find that once you have kids, they way you analyze, prioritize, or even maintain you dreams/hobbies shift. Not because it has to, but because you want to. 

I used to travel to all the MLB ball parks. Now I'd rather watch my kids play sports then drag them to do my thing they may or may not give two shits about. 

That’s because you are a good parent. Parents that do what you are saying is possible are bad parents for the most part 

[LTbear 4209]

14 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

Will she make the world's best mom?

She'd be a great mom, no doubt whatsoever

[mdmost 43848]

25 minutes ago, LTbear said:

I appreciate this. This is one of my primary concerns/ thoughts - it seems to me that when kids are young, for several years, your life IS your kids, which I'm not sure I can handle. I have an amazing and fulfilling life, doing things I could not do with young kids (for example, spending each weekend in freezing temperatures photographing and videoing wildlife in Yellowstone and Glacier). I worry about my mental ability to handle giving up so much that I've worked so long and hard for. 

Enjoy Palo Duro - absolutely amazing place. And if you have time on the trip, squeeze in a visit to Caprock Canyons, which is also gorgeous and has a bison herd.

I'll say this. We didn't do enough traveling with them as young kids and that was dumb. Texasdago takes his kids to Italy. It can be done. You may not get a lot of alone trips but if you have a good support system, you can try to find time for small getaways. We've done some great trips as a family and my wife and I have done great trips as a couple since having kids. It's not all Disneyworld and kid only things. We've gone to Yosemite, Big Bend, and plan to go to more National parks in the next few years. It can be done. You just have to try it. We have friends with 2 boys and all they do is camping vacations. You may not have that ability to go everywhere for the initial infant years but you can take trips. If you love something, you absolutely get your kids into the things you love. You have such a magical window from about 3 to 11 where they think everything is awesome and everything you do is the greatest thing ever. Then they hit the teen years and everything is super gay and uninteresting. 

[Baboontyme 2875]

I don't know if others feel this, but having kids also makes for some complicated matters of self reflection. 

If you plan on being a good parent, take whatever part of you is unique to you, that you self identify with, and realize that a big part of that is going to die off. You will no longer be LT Bear. You will be LT Bear in charge of his family. It changes you - in a good way. Your identity is now family man and Dad, first and foremost. There is room for other stuff if you keep healthy boundaries but it's very hard to keep healthy boundaries. This transition is wonderful, and eventually you likely will find yourself totally embracing it. There is nothing more rewarding (and challenging and difficult) than parenting children. It is the best thing I've ever done and at the end of the day my purpose on this planet is going to be to produce two other people that hopefully can help make this a better place. 

However, I've been Baboon the Dad for 12 years now. And my oldest just started middle school and my youngest is 9 and more mature than he is. And I find they don't really need me as much as they used to, sometimes hardly at all. I used to be up at school all the time doing stuff and it gave me great joy. Now I'm just kinda lost. There are days they don't really even think to talk to me other than if they need something. 

Childhood is sacred. You spend your entire life reminiscing about how much fun it was to be a child with no responsibilities. I see this in my 12 year old as he gets older. I remember feeling it myself. I STILL feel it. There are great times ahead for a 12 year old - perhaps girlfriends, college, Senior Trips, whatever. But nothing will ever be like childhood. Ever. It's sad. 

I never thought about what it was going to be like to see that childhood ending in my kids, and I never thought about what it was going to be like for me, either. I am still Dad first, but I have a lot more time on my hands and I don't really know who I am anymore. 

[LTbear 4209]

52 minutes ago, mdmost said:

If you're unsure you want that then just delay further.  

Also should say we can't delay forever; she's 33. 

[justhookit 4205]

I think the bigger question is if any of y’all’s girlfriends wants kids or not.

[Dbeasy 15526]

Just remember, whatever you decide, your parenting can make a positive difference for that kid….or not. Parents who had nothing but great behaving kids think they are super parents, when in reality they really just hit the lottery. I know a lot of really great parents with really screwed up kids. They won the anti-lottery. 

[Francisco 2.0 32542]

I can't expand upon some of the answers that have already been given out, but needless to say; it's an absolute joy to spend your days teaching your children to do something.  Anything.  Ride a bike, catch a ball, play Zelda, brush their teeth, tie their shoes, whatever.

It's little things, but to have your child look up to you after they have accomplished something that you helped them to learn and do on their own...you can't put a price or an emotion or feeling or whatever on it.  It just makes everything, even all the stuff like losing sleep, time to do what you want, whatever seem insignificant.

Look at it this way; you listed some of the things you enjoy doing currently; you can share those experiences and knowledge with your children, when they are ready, and know you passed down something, possibly that they will enjoy for life.  You can't top that.

 

 

[LTbear 4209]

7 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

I can't expand upon some of the answers that have already been given out, but needless to say; it's an absolute joy to spend your days teaching your children to do something.  Anything.  Ride a bike, catch a ball, play Zelda, brush their teeth, tie their shoes, whatever.

It's little things, but to have your child look up to you after they have accomplished something that you helped them to learn and do on their own...you can't put a price or an emotion or feeling or whatever on it.  It just makes everything, even all the stuff like losing sleep, time to do what you want, whatever seem insignificant.

Look at it this way; you listed some of the things you enjoy doing currently; you can share those experiences and knowledge with your children, when they are ready, and know you passed down something, possibly that they will enjoy for life.  You can't top that.

 

 

I understand, conceptually, what you're saying. But, to plays devil's advocate, literally everything I love and spend all my free time doing is the type of thing a kid wouldn't be able to do for a decade, if they're even interested in it at that point. 

[TurkeyChew 383]

Seinfeld did a bit about marriage vs single that I think you could say childless vs with children as well:

“When I was [without kids] I had friends with kids and I would not visit their home. I found their life pathetic and depressing. Now that I [have kids] I have no friends [without kids]. I find their lives to be meaningless and trivial experiences. In both cases I believe I was correct. Whichever side or the [kids] situation you are on; you don’t get what the other people are doing.”

Which is to say, as others have said in their own way, It’s a profound shift in perspectives that will cascade down and impact, if not change, every form and function of your life as you know it now. 

 

[immamac 44198]

1 minute ago, LTbear said:

I understand, conceptually, what you're saying. But, to plays devil's advocate, literally everything I love and spend all my free time doing is the type of thing a kid wouldn't be able to do for a decade, if they're even interested in it at that point. 

Well the good news is you will no longer have free time. 

[Francisco 2.0 32542]

1 minute ago, LTbear said:

I understand, conceptually, what you're saying. But, to plays devil's advocate, literally everything I love and spend all my free time doing is the type of thing a kid wouldn't be able to do for a decade, if they're even interested in it at that point. 

 

And that's fine.  I have some things I can't show my 11 year old yet, because he's not old enough.  But the day will come that I can.

It gives me a little something to look forward to.  

My dad passed away 6 weeks ago or so.  He was 77.  I've spent the past 6 weeks thinking of the things he shared with me, and vice versa.  Those are some good memories.  I've relived them quite a bit since January 25th.

 

 

[TurkeyChew 383]

Also I will add, since you brought up “biological clock”:

I have 5 kids and have had them from mid 20’s to early 40’s. Having children “later in life” which I think is mid 30’s and later, is a completely different ball game than as a young man (and woman, but speaking to you as a man and from my perspective).

Your energy level, your activeness, your health, your ignorance all work together to make you bulletproof. The older you get the harder it is, to say nothing of where you might be in your career. It was way easier to be present and engaged as a 20 something dad when you are a young analyst or junior career person just starting off then as an older VP with a lot more pressure, hours, travel, responsibilities, etc. that fight for the time with your wife and newborn/child. Career and lifestyle have gravity and you need to account for that as an older guy.

[LTbear 4209]

3 minutes ago, TurkeyChew said:

Also I will add, since you brought up “biological clock”:

I have 5 kids and have had them from mid 20’s to early 40’s. Having children “later in life” which I think is mid 30’s and later, is a completely different ball game than as a young man (and woman, but speaking to you as a man and from my perspective).

Your energy level, your activeness, your health, your ignorance all work together to make you bulletproof. The older you get the harder it is, to say nothing of where you might be in your career. It was way easier to be present and engaged as a 20 something dad when you are a young analyst or junior career person just starting off then as an older VP with a lot more pressure, hours, travel, responsibilities, etc. that fight for the time with your wife and newborn/child. Career and lifestyle have gravity and you need to account for that as an older guy.

Fair. Career wise I'm in a much better position now (tenured biology prof with everything under control) than I was earlier (desperately spinning my wheels to get PhD, etc).

[JohnnyRage 1617]

47 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Also should say we can't delay forever; she's 33. 

I would say she's about 6 years past her wheelhouse. No offense intended, I'm sure she's beautiful. Check with a Dr., but I believe women aging is much more likely source for mishaps, genetic and behavioral issues in children. Guys less so until you really get up there.

Having said that I was 38, she was 34. She is a fantastic mom and rational. It didn't work out for us, but I know that I can count on her unconditionally when it comes to him. He has some ADHD issues. But I wouldn't change it for anything. My only regret is my body hurts from physical labor and now being 45. I've got a long way to go until he is a man and I can retire. And I also got to plan on being able to kick his ass in the future.

 

As stated above, he makes me a better human being.

 

The price of everything is about to go up. Does this affect your plans?

No - Do you need a purpose in life?

Yes - Go for it.

No - Profit

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by JohnnyRage

[Francisco 2.0 32542]

Regarding the biological clock; my oldest is 22 now, and when I remarried a younger woman without kids, I knew what I was getting into.

We compromised on 2 kids, and was blessed to have them relatively early in our marriage.  I'm 54 now with an 11 and 9 year old, and it's honestly been the greatest thing in my life.  I take them to school each day, pick them up afterwards, and generally get to play with them.  It's not the same dynamic that I had with my oldest when she was a child.  It's different, not better or worse.

 

 

 

 

[LTbear 4209]

7 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

I would say she's about 6 years past her wheelhouse. No offense intended, I'm sure she's beautiful. Check with a Dr., but I believe women aging is much more likely source for mishaps, genetic and behavioral issues in children. Guys less so until you really get up there.

She is a doctor. Age isn't an issue yet, but will begin to be in a couple years. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Nice ass for a Doctor.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10761]

A pro/con list for kids will lean towards con almost always unless you really feel you want kids of your own and would regret not doing so.

I've got 4 and couldn't think of not having kids. I'm at stage where I can't wait for grandkids. Society puts too much pressure on people to "have" kids. If you don't really, really want them, don't. There are plenty of ways to get "kid" time without having your own - friends, relatives, neighbors, babysitting, parties, trips, etc. Once you have a child your life has to change for it to work. The problem now is you are old enough to appreciate what you have and the things you are able to do and afford (money and time). You both are more set in your ways even if you don't know it.  All the songs and country songs about kids are correct... when you have one you can't wait for them to grow up.. once they start to grow up you wish time would slow down.  It goes by incredibly fast, but it can be an all in commitment. The pro's are are in the incredible moments shared, the con (/pro) is that you no longer are making decisions just for yourself.

 

[Prepuce of Doom 21258]

With respect to the biological clock issue, you also need to consider how many kids you might want, and how far apart in age you would like them to be. 

Stating the obvious here, but your options become increasingly limited as time goes by, and of course, you (presumably) don't know yet whether one or both of you may have some unknown fertility issues. 

We fucked around (multiple graduate degrees, moved to Miami and Los Angeles, partied and goofed off and kind of delayed honest adulthood for a while) and by the time we got down to it and had our first (with one earlier misfire), we were both 40.  It's been a blast, but there's a reason why biologically speaking, we should have begun the process 20 years earlier. It takes a lot out of you (and your wife) to have kids at that age, and we both later agreed that we were going to be one-and-done, even if that wasn't our original plan. So Doomlet will be an only child. 

I was an only child for 9 years, and I recall the profound jealousy I had towards all of my friends who had siblings close in age - always had someone to play with, never had to make do with "playing" with parents, etc. (we're close now, but by the time my brother came along, our age difference meant that we shared very little in terms of experiences and similar interests, etc., during either of our childhoods), so I am kind of sorry that we backed ourselves into a reproductive corner without realizing it (or at least without fully understanding it) at the time.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Prepuce of Doom

[Homercles 10206]

Mine are 8 (boy) and 5 (girl), and are very different.  I won’t write paragraphs on the subject as it’s well covered above but a few random anecdotes on The Great Adventure   

- I had traveled a lot, internationally, before marriage/kids…as mentioned above, grateful I got to do that in my 20’s so I don’t wishfully look back on missed opportunities 

- I believe no one really knows if they’ll be a ‘good’ parent or even what stages they’ll enjoy the most, until they do it.  Physically it’s a young persons game, but being in your 30’s = steadier income, maturity, and less likely to yearn for ‘wild’ days

- You have to make an effort to keep dating your spouse, once the newborn phase ends.  Too many become totally sucked into parenthood drones.  Do you have a good support system like in-laws/grandparents that want to watch them regularly?  We’ve had to build up a babysitter network as my folks don’t want to do overnight and my wife’s folks are passed away. 
 

- Note about biological ‘luck of the draw’ above is totally true.  You absolutely shape them, but genetics are a real thing and I find myself jealous of a close friend that has one kid who has always been chill, good listener and self reliant…my first born is that way, my daughter is incredibly imaginative but much harder to manage despite same parents / style.  Again, you won’t know until you know so not worth worrying about. 
 

- Wife was 34 and 37 when we had kids.  After 35 they often require genetic blood tests that give probabilities of serious genetic issues.  Thankfully we didn’t have to make awful decisions but the risk is never zero so you have to talk about these things ahead of time with your spouse…be prepared for what your threshold of risk is and how you’d make a decision if a test comes back a little scary.  
 

- Our pediatrician said something I quote often: long days and short years.  In some ways your life will feel like it slows to a crawl, but suddenly it’s time to plan another birthday party.  
 

- Your spouse will be exhausted, stressed and touched out a lot early on.  Sometimes being a good dad means being a good spouse…since they were babies I take my kids out regularly on my own, which makes everyone happy as mom gets a break, I bond with the kids, and those are some of my fondest memories.  Don’t be the guy who can’t change a diaper or feed them because you never do it by yourself.  
 

Damn didn’t mean to be this long.  Ultimately it’s up to you and those of us with kids can only share with you what we learned.  I always knew I wanted kids, not because I just love kids…I just knew.  I truly feel the meaning of life is to reproduce and I’m comfortable having a lot of my identity be a dad.  
 

The whole process, if you’re a realist kinda dude, will be terrifying…it’s stressful trying to conceive (if it doesn’t happen right away), the pregnancy has lots of doc visits and potentially stressful tests (ultrasounds, genetics, etc) where they may ‘find something of concern’, the delivery can go sideways (wife was pre eclamptic so rushed for a c section), not having a got damn clue how to manage a newborn is a wild ride, I worried the first year I was gonna kill them, year two I was worried they would kill them selves, year 3 there were times I wanted to kill them, and now with school it’s a whole different level of things to worry about.  
 

But I wouldn’t trade it for the world.  

[Sandman 3427]

I was 28 when my twins were born. I remember nothing from those first 3-4 months. Having 2 infants sucked so much, but then it got better whan they coud talk and communicate what they wanted/needed. Then it sucked again when they became moody middle-schoolers. Now they're 20 and it's so great. We talk about school, work, friends, how much of a trainwreck their mother is. So much fun.

But I'd be lying if I said that I never had moments of doubt, if there were never times where I tried to calculate how much money I'd have saved if I never had kids. Or what kind of fun shit I could've done instead of have kids. I don't think that makes me a bad parent, I do that hindsight shit with everything. 

Just be honest with yourself and each other. Neither choice you make will be wrong.

[idigTexas 2321]

I'm not in the best position to answer this question, but the juxtaposition of these two threads may or may not be a sign.

[UTGrad98 2331]

If I didn't have my son I know I would have regretted it later in life as you only get one shot at living. If you choose to have them you will experience a love you never knew existed.

 

And I still get to do the same shit I did before it's just much more structured. Having time set aside for both parents to chill and do their own thing is paramount. Hell I still play video games with my brother online almost every weekend. The massive "change" in your life is kinda overdone imo unless you party every night with a bunch of single dudes. If you are settled you kinda just fall into it and adjust. 

[Not a cat 5804]

Obligatory I love my kids, they're my world, can't imagine life without them, yada, yada. And that is all true.

But if I'm being honest I'd also probably have enjoyed my life so far just fine if I had never had kids.  Especially if my wife was hot as shit and liked to swing.

This is one of those you'll probably be happy with either decision unless you've had a lifetime goal of being a parent.  Kind of like the kid that was rejected by UT and ends up at their backup choice, and 4 years later can't imagine wanting to go anywhere else.

[Bodhi 1133]

42 and no kids.  Wife and I always thought we would have one eventually but when she hit 35 I still didn't feel the desire.  Got a vasectomy and left the possibility for adoption open.  As another poster mentioned, energy started to become an issue.  I'm a senior leader in a large corporation and find myself pretty drained at the end of each day.  Not sure how I would have the energy to really invest into a small child at this point.  I think the parenting ship has completely sailed now. 

We have a lot of money compared to our peers with kids, act pretty spontaneous still, and spend time with our families kids often.  I doubt I will regret not having a child and there are plenty of pros (health, money, travel, spontaneous fun).  That said, if my wife or I drop dead of cancer at 60 we may find the world to be a very lonely place.  Probably not a good reason to have a child but certainly reinforces for us the importance of having a strong relationship network.  

[CooterBrown 18272]

I absolutely love my kids but if I had to do it all over again, with no guarantee I’d get the same kids, I wouldn’t do it.

You have to be willing to give up everything once you have kids. Your routine changes, your hobbies go away, your friends go away and your new friends are parents of your kids’ friends. Rarely is there doing anything on a whim. Money is burned left and right. Kid sports are the fucking worst because most other parents suck. Other kids suck. Planning travel around school sucks. Date nights are twice as expensive since a baby sitter costs more than you spend on dinner.

[fattyflattie 4640]

Got to watch my almost 6, 7, and 9 yo see their first mountains today, and the excitement with that was magical.  They will be skiing with us tomorrow for the first time. Have some of my hobbies dropped off, yeah.  Are they completely gone, no. My oldest is old enough to hit deer camp with me on the reg and she takes more shit from those guys than any 9 yo she knows, and hands it right back. I mean she absolutely eats it up. My boat hours split family time with fishing now, but it’s a whole other kind of fun teaching them to tube and ski.  

My kids are trending to be much smarter, more passionate, and much nicer people than I ever dreamed of being.  Sports are a beating but important (for them). You’ll spend a ton of money but you don’t sound like you are necessarily hurting.  I learned pretty early on I could live in a cardboard box, but do everything I can for them. So spending the $$$ for them to have the best life is my goal. I can understand the people that don’t want kids, and that’s perfectly fine.  But it’s literally the greatest thing I ever accomplished, and wouldn’t have it any other way.   I started while still climbing the ladder, and my career hasn’t missed a beat because of it.  

*years 0-2 should be cherished, because you will never get it back.  But that period is fucking difficult. Your world at that time is nothing but the kid, but by the time they are 4-5, you are back to normal, with the added benefit your kiddo wants to do whatever their hero (you) loves to do.  
 

My parents don’t have the ability to really babysit much, and the in-laws moved away right before we started, so we don’t get a lot of “date nights”.  We are a family, and that’s what it is. I was still (long hitch) traveling for a bit after the first 2, and that was the hardest thing with all of it. 

Had I started earlier, and it been biologically feasible for wife, we’d have had another.  All girls, btw.  
 

eta: teenagers seem very difficult. Have several friends and family struggling with all sorts of issues from meaningless to extremely serious with their teens right now.  Serious thoughts and prayers to those of y’all dealing with serious issues.   

Edited March 13, 2022 by fattyflattie

[Celery Man 21076]

I'm sitting here thinking about how I can probably sleep in till 8 tomorrow because how the fuck would the baby know about daylight savings.

[Stunns38 3763]

I have 3 kids , all daughters. It’s a challenge but no doubt that they’ll take care of daddy when I’m old and frail. Middle child syndrome is real.
Wife and I were 33 and 32 respectively when we had our first. Traveled all the time and lived the fast life. Now in our 40s, fully agree that stress with work and energy are big issues. My father was a huge help with the kids and unexpectedly passed away a while back. In-laws are in mid-70s so they are limited. Take all that into consideration.

Word of advice, raising 2 young children in Manhattan (first 2 born there) is NOT recommended, no matter how much you earn/have. Had kid #3 in Texas. She’s ironically the coolest and most level headed of the 3.

Good luck with your decision.

[troph 25089]

Being a parent is the worst fucking thing imaginable, and teens are the toughest ride imaginable. The drive to have them is an awful trick played on us. But then I get to watch the horns fuck up SC tomorrow with some boys that I actually really like. Boys that I’ve helped mold into who they are and what they will become. There’s a profound sense of meaning there. It’s a total trip. I would hate to live without knowing it. I’d go back and not have kids, I’d not change a thing. It’s both/and not either/or, perpetual cognitive dissonance. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by troph

[Guest]

Disagree with a lot of folks saying you have to give up everything personal to have kids.  Hobbies still exist, even if the frequency might decrease.  One poster said they would have been swingers if they hadn't had kids- not sure if tongue in cheek, but if serious; THAT is what the trade off was?  SMDH.

As your kids grow up, guess what- you make more friends and get interested in what they grow into.  Are there some important personal level  changes necessary to being good parents?  Of course.  I never saw it remotely approaching a loss or even net-zero.  Not even close.

Edited March 13, 2022 by slorch

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

I love the single life. But I’d throw a lot less food away if I had kids. If I had kids then we could consume a loaf of bread or a head of lettuce before either goes bad. Or I wouldn’t have to either eat the same dish a few days in a row or freeze a bunch of it and then try to manage how I consume the food I’ve frozen.

Still, their probably more of a hassle than they’re worth. And I’d hate to have to try to explain to them why they really shouldn’t listen to anything their grandma says. 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

*they’re

[LTbear 4209]

9 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

I absolutely love my kids but if I had to do it all over again, with no guarantee I’d get the same kids, I wouldn’t do it.

You have to be willing to give up everything once you have kids. Your routine changes, your hobbies go away, your friends go away and your new friends are parents of your kids’ friends. Rarely is there doing anything on a whim. Money is burned left and right. Kid sports are the fucking worst because most other parents suck. Other kids suck. Planning travel around school sucks. Date nights are twice as expensive since a baby sitter costs more than you spend on dinner.

Thanks for this - like I said, I think our society does a really shitty job of letting parents feel like they're allowed to even think of uttering something like "I wouldn't do it." Appreciate the honesty. 

[Celery Man 21076]

I'm only 10.5 months in with the daughter. Past year has been a beating, but worth it. Everyone has made good points - as a mid thirties approaching late thirties, agree that this is a young man's game and given that we're probably going to try for at least one more we started not a moment too soon.  My wife is seven years younger and I thought maybe that granted me a reprieve on needing to get going soon (thinking that woman's biology is the driving thing) and I wasn't considering exactly how much... holding the baby, wearing the baby, spending hours on the floor, holding the baby with one hand while you try and fucking fill the humidifier thing with the other... just, I don't know how old people/super overweight people/people with physical issues do it.

I always imagined I'd have kids, but I also always imagined that at some point I'd be a different person than who I am and it's become clear that that's not how adulthood works really. Thinking about it again as I was getting into my thirties, my overall logic was that I'm an animal and I want to generally have the whole life experience, and for me fatherhood is part of that. I don't regret it at all. To be fair though, while I enjoy travel and adventure I'm not heavily self-motivated to get out there and do it, and already at 34 I was having thoughts of "ok so what am I really doing here". Like, alright 20 years of growing up, for me another 10 of destroying myself and putting myself back together, with some career building stuff, and sure lots more career stuff to do but thirty more years of this for what exactly and then I just putz around until I have a heart attack?

If I really wanted to climb every mountain, ski every slope, catch every fish, I don't know I'm trying to name life fulfilling accomplishments that I could spend a life working to enable my pursuit of, I think that would make sense to me. But for me, it felt like kids are what that is. And I don't think I was wrong. It is fucking bananas though - I wonder what it's like for people who have kids right off the bat, but having spent a slower adulthood period child and spouse free moving slowly doing whatever I feel, it is so weird to get back on the train of busy with other people's shit all of the time and there's a new challenge around every corner. I wanted to type up a response to this at like 5pm yesterday and now is when I'm actually getting a chance to do it, and really I need to finish it up because if I want to shower today and have more than 45 minutes of time to fuck around time tonight I gotta go do that now.

I think my overall advice would be to meditate on it and decide what you really want, but do it fast and then go.

Also man, I used to wear a hoodie for a week (more if I'm being real) between washes and now it's a day, tops.

Little bitty baby times were challenging because it was coming to grips with no longer being free. 2.5-5 months were the absolute worst because she required entertainment but didn't have any ability to do anything and couldn't be reasoned or negotiated with at all. It's been tiring and draining sometimes but great since then. She's so awesome. I love how much I make her laugh, stupid shit like being a zombie and eating her feet and she just never stops laughing that little baby laugh. Crawling around, starting to walk, she's playing peek-a-boo all on her own at me. She pops her head around a corner and just smiles and laughs, shit man.  I will say - it wasn't a "once I saw the baby i felt like a dad" thing for me - it took some time. But I understand all of that dad shit now.

[XYZ 2154]

I’m one of those who had kids because my family and society in general expected it. My youngest is now 19. Overall parenting was not good for me. Especially with my youngest, who from ages 16 to 18 checked all the “troubled teenager” boxes. All of them including suicide attempts (plural), drugs, being arrested, running away, dropping out of school, attempting to steal my car, etc, etc, etc. I was left scarred from all that shit and now that I’m an empty nester I wonder if I will ever be able to be a happy person again. 

[Bevo&Pevo 5507]

^^^ You hang in there XYZ. Good things happen to good people.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13706]

There is no right answer to this question. And pretty much impossible for anyone post-decision to comprehend what their life could have been.

Very few will easily admit that having/not having kids was a mistake for them. It’s either depressing or they would feel guilty expressing it. The few that I know that imply regrets are the extremes. Examples, having kids was their main focus for an extended time, and for whatever reason the inability to get to that result mentally damaged them. Or I know some parents who’s kids have put them through the ringer. Drugs, prison, etc. 

52, no kids. here are some hot takes about not having kids.

• doesn’t mean you live your 25yo self’s life indefinitely. Unless that is what someone wants. I don’t.
• You can still have a relationship (no chris Hansen jokes) with children or young adults. Being an aunt/uncle, cousin or even friend of the kid’s parents can be rewarding. This can allow you to experience some of the positives. Not all which I acknowledge.
• you can be pretty freaking selfish in life. I don’t consider this a negative.
• Some friends (or you depending on the perspective) will fall to the wayside as they have kids. But I’ve reconnected with some I care about as their children are going off to college.

100% opinion but if someone is on the fence about kids and not just cold feet fears, I would advise to not have them.

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Prepuce of Doom 21258]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I love the single life. But I’d throw a lot less food away if I had kids. If I had kids then we could consume a loaf of bread or a head of lettuce before either goes bad. Or I wouldn’t have to either eat the same dish a few days in a row or freeze a bunch of it and then try to manage how I consume the food I’ve frozen.

Still, their probably more of a hassle than they’re worth. And I’d hate to have to try to explain to them why they really shouldn’t listen to anything their grandma says. 

Point generally taken, but I think you vastly underestimate the amount of food that kids cause to be thrown out. 

[Celery Man 21076]

54 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Point generally taken, but I think you vastly underestimate the amount of food that kids cause to be thrown out. 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

2 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I'm only 10.5 months in with the daughter. Past year has been a beating, but worth it. Everyone has made good points - as a mid thirties approaching late thirties, agree that this is a young man's game and given that we're probably going to try for at least one more we started not a moment too soon.  My wife is seven years younger and I thought maybe that granted me a reprieve on needing to get going soon (thinking that woman's biology is the driving thing) and I wasn't considering exactly how much... holding the baby, wearing the baby, spending hours on the floor, holding the baby with one hand while you try and fucking fill the humidifier thing with the other... just, I don't know how old people/super overweight people/people with physical issues do it.

I always imagined I'd have kids, but I also always imagined that at some point I'd be a different person than who I am and it's become clear that that's not how adulthood works really. Thinking about it again as I was getting into my thirties, my overall logic was that I'm an animal and I want to generally have the whole life experience, and for me fatherhood is part of that. I don't regret it at all. To be fair though, while I enjoy travel and adventure I'm not heavily self-motivated to get out there and do it, and already at 34 I was having thoughts of "ok so what am I really doing here". Like, alright 20 years of growing up, for me another 10 of destroying myself and putting myself back together, with some career building stuff, and sure lots more career stuff to do but thirty more years of this for what exactly and then I just putz around until I have a heart attack?

If I really wanted to climb every mountain, ski every slope, catch every fish, I don't know I'm trying to name life fulfilling accomplishments that I could spend a life working to enable my pursuit of, I think that would make sense to me. But for me, it felt like kids are what that is. And I don't think I was wrong. It is fucking bananas though - I wonder what it's like for people who have kids right off the bat, but having spent a slower adulthood period child and spouse free moving slowly doing whatever I feel, it is so weird to get back on the train of busy with other people's shit all of the time and there's a new challenge around every corner. I wanted to type up a response to this at like 5pm yesterday and now is when I'm actually getting a chance to do it, and really I need to finish it up because if I want to shower today and have more than 45 minutes of time to fuck around time tonight I gotta go do that now.

I think my overall advice would be to meditate on it and decide what you really want, but do it fast and then go.

Also man, I used to wear a hoodie for a week (more if I'm being real) between washes and now it's a day, tops.

Little bitty baby times were challenging because it was coming to grips with no longer being free. 2.5-5 months were the absolute worst because she required entertainment but didn't have any ability to do anything and couldn't be reasoned or negotiated with at all. It's been tiring and draining sometimes but great since then. She's so awesome. I love how much I make her laugh, stupid shit like being a zombie and eating her feet and she just never stops laughing that little baby laugh. Crawling around, starting to walk, she's playing peek-a-boo all on her own at me. She pops her head around a corner and just smiles and laughs, shit man.  I will say - it wasn't a "once I saw the baby i felt like a dad" thing for me - it took some time. But I understand all of that dad shit now.

Blah blah blah.

Pics of wife?