Kids - to have them or not

[Guest Lobo]

'Miracle of Birth' occurs for 70 billionth time.  Or some Onion headline.  Miracles are when college kids beat Soviet pros on ice.  That I happened up on this rock hurtling through space at the time I did, and met my wife, and have these two amazing little girls is beyond a miracle.  There is no word to describe it, actually.  It's also fucking horrifying and I regret it frequently.  

But I can say this without arrogance...I have always tried to make everything and everywhere a little bit better than I found it.  And my track record is pretty fucking stellar.  Except as a father.  It's a fucking grind.  But it makes me want to try harder.  And I know I'll never get there.  But maybe that's the fucking point.  When you accept that glorious demise, I guess you're ready.  But don't do it just to biologically procreate the species.  We're beyond that point.  Don't do it for other family.  Don't do it for religion.  Don't do it for tax credits.  Don't do it for yourself.  Don't even do it for your wife.  Do it for the smaller person you haven't met yet.  Maybe you'll make somebody wonderful.  Probably not, but sometimes it's worth a shot.  But seriously, listen to the above posters...it's a fucking beating most days.  Every once in awhile though, you see right to the core of the universe in their smile.  Then it's back to the shit.  

[DCLonghorn 244]

I've got two in college, one of them from home, and three in HS, and a ten year old. So four teenagers in the house right now. Well five for the moment since oldest is home for spring break. 

I assumed on the statistical chances alone, I'd have some real problems in the teen years. And there's still plenty of time if that manifests, but by grace or luck or both, we have had almost no issues with the teenagers. One bout of eating disorder...that's all so far, at least that we know about.

I feel simply typing this will jinx the mother loving hell out of it moving forward, but I felt I should post as all/most references to teenagers above give the sense it's a given there will be big issues.

Serious good vibes and prayers for those dealing with that stuff. Tough as hell.

One unexpected benefit to a large family is that the family is the center of gravity. Keeps the kids occupied and relatively out of trouble. So far.

[Goofyboy 3,269]

I have a ten year old. I have had to take everything I thought I knew about parenting and throw it out the window. He’s terribly different than damn near every kid his age.

Whatever you decide, make sure you want to be a parent. It gets hard. Tears, stress, frustration, FEAR… it all happens.

That said - my wife and I are very happy to have our son. He’s fun to travel with. He loves board games and movies with us. I have no clue what the teen years hold, but they will be interesting.

Good luck.

[LTbear 4,168]

Want to thank everyone for the thoughts shared thus far; honestly, many of you gave much more detail than I expected, which is greatly appreciated. 

[troph 24,781]

I now have fishing buddies that feel obligated to listen to me wax and wane about life through the lens of fly fishing, that’s pretty bad ass. River runs through it and shit.

tonight my 14 year old and I sang little bird by JJW sitting at the kitchen bar while waiting for my partner to finish dinner. Put my arm around him and we sang out of tune. 
 

there’s a subtle richness to home life that sometimes occurs that’s indescribable with older kids and something I’d rather not miss out on.  Trick is you gotta stop right then and see it. Oh man it’s spectacular though. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by troph

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

First LT, as a fellow photographer, I can say that your hobby will take a hit. It won’t disappear, but will definitely change. Before having kids, if I wanted to spend the whole day out taking photos, my wife didn’t mind if I came home at midnight from a long day trip shooting. Now, I feel obligated to be home in time to pick them up from their after school program. It’s not I don’t being there and doing that, I actually do. By I would be lying if I said there were times where I wish I didn’t have to hurry back. So much of my shooting happens at the worse part of the day in the shittiest lighting.

So, having said that, I love my girls. I love teaching them things, their smiles, how they are developing their own personalities. It’s pretty fucking amazing. So, at this point I could not imagine life without them. I was 38 when my first one was born, so I had done a lot of living. Could I have traveled more, yep, but it is what it is. Yes, I travel with them now, but traveling with a family is very different than the kind of traveling I did before.

We had to do IVF for our first. Prior to that my wife was taking various fertility drugs but it wasn’t working. She was getting upset and frustrated. That made me feel the same. But I told her, that if we ended up not having kids, I would be fine with it. I could be happy without having kids, it would just a different kind of happy and different kind of life. She had a much stronger maternal drive.

So no, I don’t regret having kids. Life with them is amazing. It is just a lot different than not having kids. You can find balance, but it will never be the same.

[troph 24,781]

When they get older your kids can share in your hobbies. That’s where we are now and it’s pretty incredible, well, except for a 17 year old that’s 17 years old. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by troph

[mdmost 43,001]

39 minutes ago, troph said:

When they get older your kids can share in your hobbies. That’s where we are now and it’s pretty incredible, well, except for a 17 year old that’s 17 years old. 

Agreed. For as much as my original post was definitely about giving the OP the possible negative reality you can face when having kids, I wouldn’t trade my kid for anything. She’s so amazing in so many ways. My job is to make her the best possible adult she can be before she’s supposed to move on in 4+ years. It’s not all doom and gloom, just in case my post indicated that. Today was f’ing great. I got her to hike 5 miles and go up a steep hill to get to this. And she loved it. This is what makes all the pain, heartache, and worry worth it.

 

[pearlandhorn 3,269]

Years 0 - 3 absolutely suck.  Years 4 and 5 have been pretty badass.  Kids change you and make you realize what's really important in life: family, love, care, and support.  My wife and I embraced the suck that were years 0 - 3 and have grown as a couple because of it.  Our relationship is better now than it was before we had a kid due to long-term financial planning, priorities, and just a better open line of communication between the both of us.

[baboso 6,054]

That swinger lifestyle would go out the window, also.

[LTbear 4,168]

8 minutes ago, baboso said:

That swinger lifestyle would go out the window, also.

My penis is disgruntled 

[baboso 6,054]

1 minute ago, LTbear said:

My penis is disgruntled 

Shit, kids even manage to cock-block marital sex.  

[Guest Lobo]

9 minutes ago, baboso said:

That swinger lifestyle would go out the window, also.

I always wondered what those couples told the babysitter back in the days before cell phones?  

"Thanks for babysitting tonight, Deb.  We should be home by 11:00p.  There's a pizza on the way, have a good time."

"Which restaurant will you bet at in case of an emergency?"

"Uh, if that happens...you can reach us at 512-370-8555 but only in an emergency!"

"Isn't that the number for the Thompson's house?"

"Nobody likes a lot of questions, Deb.  Also, your parents will be arriving at the same time we do to give you a lift home."

"What?" 

[royiv 9,272]

15 hours ago, troph said:

When they get older your kids can share in your hobbies. That’s where we are now and it’s pretty incredible, well, except for a 17 year old that’s 17 years old. 

That would be a little awkward if one's hobbies included banging whores and lots of blow.

[royiv 9,272]

On 3/13/2022 at 9:45 AM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There is no right answer to this question. And pretty much impossible for anyone post-decision to comprehend what their life could have been.

Very few will easily admit that having/not having kids was a mistake for them. It’s either depressing or they would feel guilty expressing it. The few that I know that imply regrets are the extremes. Examples, having kids was their main focus for an extended time, and for whatever reason the inability to get to that result mentally damaged them. Or I know some parents who’s kids have put them through the ringer. Drugs, prison, etc. 

52, no kids. here are some hot takes about not having kids.

• doesn’t mean you live your 25yo self’s life indefinitely. Unless that is what someone wants. I don’t.
• You can still have a relationship (no chris Hansen jokes) with children or young adults. Being an aunt/uncle, cousin or even friend of the kid’s parents can be rewarding. This can allow you to experience some of the positives. Not all which I acknowledge.
• you can be pretty freaking selfish in life. I don’t consider this a negative.
• Some friends (or you depending on the perspective) will fall to the wayside as they have kids. But I’ve reconnected with some I care about as their children are going off to college.

100% opinion but if someone is on the fence about kids and not just cold feet fears, I would advise to not have them.

 

These are pretty much the points that my wife and I covered when we made a conscious decision to not have kids. We heartily enjoy the freedom we have by not having kids. I have a number of people in my life that are great parents, but I’ve also had a number of friends confide in me that they wish they had our life. Not to say those folks don’t love their kids, but they envy the freedom that comes along with not having them.
 

I admire the parents on this thread that have posted very heartfelt and meaningful things about what being a parent means to them. I read those things and it further reinforces to me that I would not be a great parent. I’m just not wired that way and I’m okay with that.

[Sbbruin 21,830]

Like others, I can't imagine my life without my kids.  They truly give you a sense of purpose.  They really become your world.  I would never change the decision to have them.

The biggest drawback?  For me, it is financial.  Sending them both to private schools from Pre-K to now my oldest getting ready to graduate HS, I have spent my hundreds of thousands on their education, and now college is staring down the barrel at me.  I would be a much wealthier person without them.  But much poorer of spirit.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,509]

I've never really understood the phrase, "I can't imagine my life without my kids."  Sure, I get the sentiment and no one is suggesting that they're taken away from the parents. 

Once we make almost any major decision (where to live, who to marry, career path, kids, etc.) it's impossible to fully comprehend your life if you had made a different choice.  I can't imagine my life if I had decided to live in NYC over Houston in the 90s.

If someone has 2 kids, they can't imagine what their life would be like with 4.  But that doesn't mean stopping at 2 was the right decision. It's possible that there really isn't a right decision when it comes to having kids. It just is what it is.

 

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

 

My risk aversion is much, much better now than before kids.  I still do a lot of questionable shit, but I am still alive. 

[horn4life 3,759]

My old joke was that you need TWO KIDS!  Mainly so your odds are better off potentially having one of them come turn you in the nursing home one day.  You have just one, they might just say "fuck it" call me when its over.  Dark... but darkly true.

I also think that women always want kids more than men.  Men want the freedom, women like the stability.  It's always been that way since the beginning of time.

I think the main thing is to understand that having kids... is almost exactly like being married.  If you are having kids to check a perceived box on facebook, then you will be a very shitty parent, and please I beg you, do not procreate.  The other thing that is important to know that there are no guarantees in life, and this is especially true in children.  You pray that they are healthy. You pray they stay safe. You pray they make good choices. Hope, after hope, after hope, for their well being.  It helps a lot if you have family that can give you some mental support.  Our first had severe colic, and no lie, I did not sleep more than maybe 2-1/ hours at a stretch for nearly 6 weeks before I begged my father to come spend two nights and let me get a couple straight house of sleep. My field of vision was actually starting to slightly close from fatigue.  She's the most successful and kind kid a parent could wish for.  But she was hell at first.  She was so scary plans for 3 went to plans for 2 and a larger gap in between. 

Second one was much easier early and much more difficult after that.  But she too is finding her way and a lot of here issues were due to us not realizing her issues because she was performing so well despite struggling. Bad parents did not get ADHD/ Dyslexia diagnosis until middle of junior year.  Having a near perfect sister was also a burden I would not wish upon any child.  

I know that for my wife and I NOT having children would have only been the case had we not been able to have kids.  I of course (as the guy) was not saying, "hey honey lets stop happy hours, weekend soccer games, and traveling and pop out a few puppies!"  She wanted them sooner but I put her through college and Pharmacy school so it was a choice of education or school.  I don't think she (we) could have survived both.  There is no doubt that your life completely and permanently changes because you now truly hold the life of another in your hands.  You love them more than anything, and burn inside wanting the absolute best for them.  

For us it was the best thing that ever happened to us.

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,100]

I have always been firmly in the no kids camp. Just never wanted to have them.  Have broken up with ex-boyfriends because of that (they wanted kids, I did not).  

Ultimately, there is no wrong answer here, though many will think there is.  Not everyone is built to be a parent.  

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,230]

16 hours ago, pearlandhorn said:

Years 0 - 3 absolutely suck.  Years 4 and 5 have been pretty badass.  Kids change you and make you realize what's really important in life: family, love, care, and support.  My wife and I embraced the suck that were years 0 - 3 and have grown as a couple because of it.  Our relationship is better now than it was before we had a kid due to long-term financial planning, priorities, and just a better open line of communication between the both of us.

While there were difficult periods, I loved the 0-3 years. Something about rocking a baby to sleep or just looking in awe at how quickly they learn things. My last of 4 is about to leave home and those early years are something I would do over again in a heartbeat.

[dlatin 328]

Very interesting thread. I never wanted kids but after 3 years of marriage we had our first and it was life changing that can’t really be explained or truly understood until you have kids. He was so good we decided to have another shortly after. #2 was not as easy and we decided to stop at 2. I agree with just about all that’s been said above with just one important addition. I owe a lot of how great being parent is to how amazing my wife is. She is an amazing mother and just an amazing person. Having a non-crazy wife is huge. She helps me be a much better dad. Also, it’s important to know if you are controlling, a neat freak, etc because if so, if either party is, it can be a real challenge.

I’m going through the teen years now and it’s pretty scary, you worry so much about them, about their future. You try to help teach from all your mistakes but the reality is that’s the only way to learn, by making mistakes so that’s challenging to know. You just have to have faith that you raised them well and all will be ok. And even if you did, there still will likely challenges. There’s nothing more heart breaking than your child in pain, physically or emotionally and that is a guarantee to happen. I am convinced my life wouldn’t be as fulfilled sans kids. However I’m sure I would be on a sailboat in the Caribbean right now if we were childless.

[Quagmire 2,147]

If you never want to have sex again then go ahead and have kids

[Jkwellborn 6,695]

If you never want to have sex again then go ahead and have kids

User name.

Seriously, kids are some cock blocking mofos.

[Homercles 10,205]

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I've never really understood the phrase, "I can't imagine my life without my kids."  Sure, I get the sentiment and no one is suggesting that they're taken away from the parents. 

Once we make almost any major decision (where to live, who to marry, career path, kids, etc.) it's impossible to fully comprehend your life if you had made a different choice.  I can't imagine my life if I had decided to live in NYC over Houston in the 90s.

If someone has 2 kids, they can't imagine what their life would be like with 4.  But that doesn't mean stopping at 2 was the right decision. It's possible that there really isn't a right decision when it comes to having kids. It just is what it is.

 

I remember feeling like I was so busy when I was single, with a reasonable social life and the usual ACL/ROT/etc every year.  Now I look back and wonder wtf I did all day.  I’d come home from work and do…what exactly?  Smoke weed and play Wii I guess.  Even after I got married, what was a ‘normal’ day like?  
 

There’s constantly dishes, laundry, cooking, cries of ‘daddy, bubba hit me’, a dozen birthday parties, scouts, etc…and if it is a rare Saturday with nothing going on, I need to take them to a park/bounce/playground/etc so they don’t go stir crazy.  I sometimes yearn for my single days but after a week I’d probably be bored shitless. 
 

And regarding number of kids I sorta reference the joke where everyone driving faster is a maniac and everyone slower is a moron…’everyone with 1 kid has it easy and those with 3+ kids are crazy’.  

[Guest]

On 3/12/2022 at 10:09 AM, LTbear said:

What say the Surlies - both with and without kids. What made your decision? What regrets do you have? Etc. Any and all thoughts are greatly appreciated. 

Was reaching the same point as you. Remember putting in my birthdate for health insurance at a new job and it autocompleted with my and my wife's ages in the early 30s. Realized that if we were going to do it, the time was now.

I was always in the "no" camp. I like my own time, don't have a lot of patience, but I'm also sort of a real-life version of Hank Hill, even when younger. So it wasn't like I partied a lot or had some crazy lifestyle. 

Wife wanted a child, and honestly, I love her so much that I refused to let her go without due to me. It's not in everyone, but there is something wired in our monkey brains for millennia to have children (insert all sorts of caveats here.) Especially after having a kid, I feel it is part of the human experience. While I wasn't amped up about it, to deprive my wife of that experience was a non-starter. 

Then you hear that heartbeat at the doctor. And it all changes. 

It's the hardest and most-rewarding job you'll ever have... and I'm only a third of the way through it. I honestly can't believe I was ready to miss out on it. Does it wear you out? Abso-fucking-lutely. But my kid always makes me laugh every day with something he does. Seeing him learn, grow, and experience is something that no amount of travel, fancy restaurants, or quiet evenings on my own could ever compare to. 

Plus, not being able to do those things at all times really makes them special and memorable when you do. I would still kill for a few nights here and there where the kid goes to sleep at 5 p.m. Unfortunately, we don't have grandparents close by that can give us a little more free time. If you do, I envy that situation.

 

2 hours ago, dlatin said:

Very interesting thread. I never wanted kids but after 3 years of marriage we had our first and it was life changing that can’t really be explained or truly understood until you have kids.

I owe a lot of how great being parent is to how amazing my wife is. She is an amazing mother and just an amazing person. Having a non-crazy wife is huge. She helps me be a much better dad. Also, it’s important to know if you are controlling, a neat freak, etc because if so, if either party is, it can be a real challenge.

There’s nothing more heart breaking than your child in pain, physically or emotionally and that is a guarantee to happen. I am convinced my life wouldn’t be as fulfilled sans kids. However I’m sure I would be on a sailboat in the Caribbean right now if we were childless.

These lines all jumped out at me. I feel like I'm a good dad, my wife runs fucking laps around me. Also, nothing worse than sick kids, and or when they say another kid was mean to them. It's crushing.

If for no other reason, have kids so that you can see how dumb it is when people talk about being a "dog parent" like it's even in the same fucking galaxy.

Edited March 14, 2022 by FirstTimeCaller

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Homercles said:

I remember feeling like I was so busy when I was single, with a reasonable social life and the usual ACL/ROT/etc every year.  Now I look back and wonder wtf I did all day.  I’d come home from work and do…what exactly?  Smoke weed and play Wii I guess.  Even after I got married, what was a ‘normal’ day like?  
 

There’s constantly dishes, laundry, cooking, cries of ‘daddy, bubba hit me’, a dozen birthday parties, scouts, etc…and if it is a rare Saturday with nothing going on, I need to take them to a park/bounce/playground/etc so they don’t go stir crazy.  I sometimes yearn for my single days but after a week I’d probably be bored shitless. 
 

And regarding number of kids I sorta reference the joke where everyone driving faster is a maniac and everyone slower is a moron…’everyone with 1 kid has it easy and those with 3+ kids are crazy’.  

Yep. The time thing is so funny. I haven't been "bored" in years. There's always something going on between family, house, business. 

[Celery Man 20,933]

On never being bored/having downtime and never having sex, important imo to be intentional about banging your wife, once there’s a bit of a rhythm and she’s open for business.  Right now if you said I could spend an hour alone playing Tony Hawk or spend an hour in bed with the wife, probably Tony Hawk wins. But that’s a sad road and keeping things working in the bedroom does a lot for how things are working elsewhere.

[Stunns38 3,460]

User name.

Seriously, kids are some cock blocking mofos.

If you can get to that point. they mentally drain your energy and libido and I have no desire many times. Never would have imagined this in my 20s.

[Sandman 3,403]

6 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Ultimately, there is no wrong answer here, though many will think there is.

I don't drink alcohol. I never have. No religious hang-ups or drunks in my family, I just don't like it. I cannot count the number of people that, when I informed them of this fact, reacted like I had stated that I don't breathe oxygen. They would get borderline offended and try to get me to drink all kinds of shit. These people are just like the "You're not having kids???" crowd.

I have never understood why so many people want to die on a hill that has no bearing on their own lives whatsoever. If a couple wants to be childfree, who gives a shit? I guess I can understand a parent that longs to be a grandparent but I don't get the busybody at work or a so-called friend that busts your chops about not having a kid. 

[WithoutAClue 15,341]

[fattyflattie 4,639]

Whole lotta truth up in this thread. Can’t believe so many of y’all aren’t getting laid tho? 
 

I’d like to parrot the point, having an amazing mother (of your children) is huge. I’d do, and many times do, anything for my kids. But my wife runs fucking laps around me.  

[Cacti 191]

On 3/12/2022 at 10:09 AM, LTbear said:

Long story short, I'd love to hear honest pros and cons of having kids

Pro:

Every woman of child-bearing years has to birth at least 2.1 children in order for the population to replace itself. The current U.S. rate is 1.7.

So, if you claim to be a patriotic American, then you and your wife will take one for Team America and have at least three children.

Unprotected sex tonight would be a good start, but future repetition is key.

[LTbear 4,168]

12 minutes ago, Cacti said:

Pro:

Every woman of child-bearing years has to birth at least 2.1 children in order for the population to replace itself. The current U.S. rate is 1.7.

So, if you claim to be a patriotic American, then you and your wife will take one for Team America and have at least three children.

Unprotected sex tonight would be a good start, but future repetition is key.

I'm afraid I'm firmly in the "there's too many people on this planet" camp.

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

I'm afraid I'm firmly in the "there's too many people on this planet" camp.

I can cum inside your wife for you (assuming my wife is cool with it).






















She isn’t. America is fucked.

[Baboontyme 2,809]

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

I don't drink alcohol. I never have. No religious hang-ups or drunks in my family, I just don't like it. I cannot count the number of people that, when I informed them of this fact, reacted like I had stated that I don't breathe oxygen. They would get borderline offended and try to get me to drink all kinds of shit. These people are just like the "You're not having kids???" crowd.

I have never understood why so many people want to die on a hill that has no bearing on their own lives whatsoever. If a couple wants to be childfree, who gives a shit? I guess I can understand a parent that longs to be a grandparent but I don't get the busybody at work or a so-called friend that busts your chops about not having a kid. 

I think this is bullshit. I'm on mobile. Who repped this? The childless or the not childless? I don't know a single person with children who gives a fuck what you do. We've got our own shit to worry about. 

Now do we scoff at your "responsibilities"? Hard yes.

Edit. My theory is that the persecution complex that is alluded to is more of a reflection of the semi-subtle dynamic about responsibilities mentioned above. Maybe not. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Baboontyme

[LTbear 4,168]

6 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

I think this is bullshit. I'm on mobile. Who repped this? The childless or the not childless? I don't know a single person with children who gives a fuck what you do. We've got our own shit to worry about. 

Now do we scoff at your "responsibilities"? Hard yes.

Edit. My theory is that the persecution complex that is alluded to is more of a reflection of the semi-subtle dynamic about responsibilities mentioned above. Maybe not. 

Must be different places we grew up. I know plenty of people like those @Sandman is describing. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by LTbear

[Guest]

I know a shit-ton more folks who I wished hadn't had kids than those who I think should have had them instead.

[Guest Lobo]

There are a lot of "you need to have children, it's God's plan" folks out there.  And they are incredibly vocal about it.  I think it's the same reason people evangelize their faith, their political beliefs, their family choices, etc.  If other people do what I do, think what I think, believe what I believe, then that validates my own choices and I look myself in the mirror.  There aren't that many of them anymore, but they exist and they won't shut the hell up.  

I could give a shit either way.  As stated above, only time I give a damn is when somebody with no children complains about being tired or busy, etc.  Wife has three sisters (no pics).  One chose long ago to not have children with her boyfriend of 19 years.  She constantly, every single fucking time the family is together, has to broadcast to everyone how tired she is, how she needs to spend time with her dog, and how annoying our children are.  Never fails.  Then there's another sister who just turned 40 and has had some reproductive issues.  And she would make an exceptionally great mother (and the husband is a good guy as well).  I've never vocalized it, but I really wish they would have children or adopt.  They would be a wonderful family, only couple on Earth I've ever concerned myself with as far as starting a family.  But I'll never say it out loud to anyone except maybe my wife, and only because I could easily help them expedite the adoption process.  

Make your choices.  Nobody, especially the government or the church, should be involved.  Be happy.  but if you don't have kids, and I ask how you've been and you say, "Oh man, just been super busy."  Know that you're a fucking child and we mock you the moment you walk away.  Other than that, we are all on this rock together...god bless.  

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

The boss that has no kids and nothing but their stupid, meaningless career is the fucking worst. Especially if he/she has no self awareness. Get a hobby you fucking dork. No one wants to work 80 hours a week. Stop taking pride in that. You are still a cog in the machine.


LT, it is very likely you will be a good parent and enjoy it. But don’t do it if your only driving factor is external forces (society).

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,509]

25 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

The boss that has no kids and nothing but their stupid, meaningless career is the fucking worst. Especially if he/she has no self awareness. Get a hobby you fucking dork. No one wants to work 80 hours a week. Stop taking pride in that. You are still a cog in the machine.


LT, it is very likely you will be a good parent and enjoy it. But don’t do it if your only driving factor is external forces (society).

Why do you care if your boss works 80 hours? Unless they’re forcing you to reply to emails at 10pm, it doesn’t impact you. I’ve known a few hard-working bosses that basically produce/highlight the results of their team and therefore put money in the pockets of their employees.

I’ve had bosses that work 80 hours and some that really put in 10. I’ll take the 80 any day. And many of them don’t expect their employees to put in those hours.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Nice Guy Eddie

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,975]

Don't think that your hobbies will entirely go away. They will change and adapt, but it won't be something you regret. I've always been an outdoors type and used to love going on backpacking trips with friends, but I haven't been on one since our first was born (five and a half now). On the other hand, we spent a month traveling around the country and visiting National Parks and stuff while living out our van two years ago, camping at whatever free spot we could find on USFS and BLM land. Our oldest was almost four and our youngest was almost ten months old when we left. It was the greatest experience of our life and our kids love the outdoors because we have made it a point to do stuff like that with them, even though most people would think it is crazy to take a trip like that with such small children. Children are amazingly adaptable and malleable. They will love whatever you do, and you just have to decide to do it and figure out the logistics of how you will do it. Before our third came along we were tentatively planning on doing some easy overnight backpacking trips with the other two. We wouldn't have been able to hike several miles a day on an extended trip, but we could do a couple miles in easy terrain. Looking back at my experiences in the outdoors, doing them with my kids is much more satisfying than it ever was before them.

[troph 24,781]

Hobbies can increase when kids get older. If you are the type that needs a reason or needs something to live for kids are great for that. Covid hit and we had two choices - fight or flight. We chose fight - I wanted my kids to know how to work though adversity. So we tackled outdoor hobbies and together we learned fly fishing, sailing, scuba and dry camping. Our hobbies exploded mostly because I felt an obligation to them. Of course if you follow the standard route of sports and school sanctioned extracurriculars then you’ll have less time but we’ve chosen club tennis and wake surfing for sports and band in school leaving plenty of time when the kids are out of school to pursue our hobbies. If you teach them right, when they have down time they will want to go and do. So in a way, my kids have increased my hobby time not decreased it. 

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Why do you care if your boss works 80 hours? Unless they’re forcing you to reply to emails at 10pm, it doesn’t impact you. I’ve known a few hard-working bosses that basically produce/highlight the results of their team and therefore put money in the pockets of their employees.
I’ve had bosses that work 80 hours and some that really put in 10. I’ll take the 80 any day. And many of them don’t expect their employees to put in those hours.

You answered your own question.

[Jkwellborn 6,695]

If you can get to that point. they mentally drain your energy and libido and I have no desire many times. Never would have imagined this in my 20s.

Yeah, it’s hard to get away from them while they’re young. Especially if they are colicky and don’t sleep well.

[Celery Man 20,933]

No practical reason a boss working a fuck ton of hours should matter to you at all, but for every boss putting in 80 productive hours and not seeing 40-50 from direct reports as low effort there's a boss with no life outside of work who puts in 80 hours of micromanagement mostly trying to figure out why their team isn't putting in 80 hours. Of course if that's what you're dealing with, you should quit and make sure you provide feedback to at least an additional level up on the way out the door to a company (hopefully a competitor) with a better culture.

A lot of us may not have felt a lot of the "why don't you have kids?" pressure, but women sure as fuck do.

Little bitty baby (newborn till... i dunno, 2-3 months?) was 3-4 hour increments. Wake or pick up the baby, change the baby, feed the baby, change the baby, put the baby down, wait till it's been 4 hours since the cycle started, repeat. We worked in shifts so we could each sleep. No sexy time. Baby was in the snoo/bassinet in our room. There was a while later when it was more like.. 2 or 3 naps during the day but she sleeps through the night. But in our room. Still no sexy time.  About 6 months in we moved her to her room and crib with two naps during the day and of course she's asleep at night. Sexy time. WFH helps. I suppose it probably gets more difficult when they become a bit more mobile and cognizant of things that they might hear. No idea what that's like with kids in primary school but i can see how that would make things tough.

One thing worthy of some consideration - things are a lot more balanced at our house now. This is not an argument for or an endorsement of traditional gender roles, and is not something that I would think would be the same for all houses, and really is probably an indictment on me, but I'm in many ways much less annoyed at my wife generally now than I was before. I think in a lot of ways it's because she's stepped into the "mom" role in a big way, and a lot of it is my own irritability at a perceived imbalance before (feelling like I earn 80% of the money, do 70% of the chores and am responsible for 5% of the nagging). I now earn 100% of the money and still do the same "keep the house running and mostly clean" chores but there's this whole realm of stuff that she owns now. Plus she cooks every night - she's leaned into that and gotten pretty good at it too. Maybe I'm finding the most "I'm a male pig" way to say that i appreciate her contributions to the household now in ways that I didn't before, and that makes me happy. But it is a change in the dynamic both in what she does and how I feel about it. That would probably be different for everyone, but maybe think about how the responsibilities would work with you guys should you do it, and how that would make you (and her) feel.

[Chewbacca 7,767]

5 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Why do you care if your boss works 80 hours? Unless they’re forcing you to reply to emails at 10pm, it doesn’t impact you. I’ve known a few hard-working bosses that basically produce/highlight the results of their team and therefore put money in the pockets of their employees.

I’ve had bosses that work 80 hours and some that really put in 10. I’ll take the 80 any day. And many of them don’t expect their employees to put in those hours.

Every boss I've ever had that is a workaholic expects the same from those who work for them.

[Dahobbs 17,527]

One of us!

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Maybe I'm finding the most "I'm a male pig" way to say that i appreciate her contributions to the household now in ways that I didn't before, and that makes me happy. But it is a change in the dynamic both in what she does and how I feel about it. That would probably be different for everyone, but maybe think about how the responsibilities would work with you guys should you do it, and how that would make you (and her) feel.

Ha, before I had kids and heard someone was a stay-at-home mom, my smooth-brain went to thinking they had it easy. Now, I know it's one of the hardest damn jobs there is. Maybe it changes when kids are in school, but keeping a household running smoothly while parenting/teaching/feeding/raising children is no joke and is underappreciated. I could not do it.

There is the "wives and the dumb stuff they do" thread on here. I do not read it because my wife could do dumb stuff for years and she would have enough credit to do so without ridicule for decades to come given her outstanding job in raising our child.

[Homercles 10,205]

16 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Whole lotta truth up in this thread. Can’t believe so many of y’all aren’t getting laid tho? 
 

I’d like to parrot the point, having an amazing mother (of your children) is huge. I’d do, and many times do, anything for my kids. But my wife runs fucking laps around me.  

I think many ebb and flow, and look back wistfully to the dating/honeymoon stages without kids when the mix of freedom and boredom lead to ‘well let’s fuck’ many nights. A lot of women are more cerebral and post-baby weight gain + exhaustion + potential PPD + nursing = shut down completely.  
 

We surprisingly had a huge uptick when Covid kicked off because my wife was WFH but the kids were still in daycare, so she was more relaxed plus had shed the baby weight. In both 2021 and 2022 she’s undergone major job changes and I purposefully back off, but work to schedule date nights and weekends away…gotta break out of that daily grind. 
 

As I noted in another reply here I think plenty of dudes forget to keep dating their spouse and get lost in the grind of parenthood.  
 

Most parents I know seem to have one set of grandparents that have zero interest in watching the kids and another who would move in if they thought they could.  My folks just never seemed interested and her parents passed away before we got together, so it’s only every 3-4 months we can get the sitter stars to align for an overnight/weekend…in an ideal world we’d have a night or weekend every month.  Those are magic and she wears me out.  
 

Marriages are never constant, at least in my experience, and you gotta work at them if you want the full ‘benefits’.  Kids are a huge dynamic there and you gotta respect that your wife was there first and treat her that way.  Responsive desire is a thing, and Come As You Are is a great read on the subject.  I’ve also learned to embrace quality over quantity, and the occasional dry spell isn’t taken as personally. 
 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Homercles