Beware of Retirement

[Okie State 3818]

might be similar to mine.  my pension is defined-contribution, meaning i get out as annuity what i put in (rather than a formula e.g. based on best earning years).
the defined-contribution formula:  x% of salary deducted, to gain y% as annuity benefit.  
say, for 10% & 5% @ 100k salary, annually they take 10k so you build 5k of benefit.  do that for 30 years and you build 5k*30 = 150k yearly payout until you die.  
***
tied to that pension plan is an optional "additional voluntary contribution".  you define the % and it is pretty much a pretax savings account, investable in all the typical 401k routes 

The 'pension' we have is nothing more than a company contribution based on a percentage of your current salary. Separately we have a 401k through Vanguard that has a 5% or so company match and a stock savings plan where we receive a small percentage of our salary in shares twice a year depending on how our stock is performing relative to peers. All of it adds up to a pretty decent benefit of you take advantage of it. I'm sure there is better and worse out there.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Defined benefit pensions became unsustainable when people started living so much longer. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21898]

16 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Defined benefit pensions became unsustainable when people started living so much longer. 

Unless you're a governmental agency. Well, they’re still unsustainable, but that will be some future office holders problem so nobody cares.

Edited May 30, 2018 by NeverMarryAStripper

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Unless your a governmental agency. Well, they’re still unsustainable, but that will be some future office holders problem so nobody cares.

As long as the government has the power to tax, they can sustain for a good amount of time. 

[tbone_ 14115]

As long as the government has the power to tax, they can sustain for a good amount of time. 

At least until the revolution.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

The best thing my boy ever said to me,  which hit me full on in the gut, is “dad there isn’t anything you can’t figure out how to do.” 

Well there is some kid.   You’ll figure it out too.   In the meantime,  we’ve whipped some stuff.  My kid knows how to think and figure out life problems. Most of the battle.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

The best thing my boy ever said to me,  which hit me full on in the gut, is “dad there isn’t anything you can’t figure out how to do.” 

Well there is some kid.   You’ll figure it out too.   In the meantime,  we’ve whipped some stuff.  My kid knows how to think and figure out life problems. Most of the battle.  

I’m decently handy as I’ve spent a lot of time working at our family’s ranches growing up. I can drive a tractor.  Operate the skid steer and a dozer.  Weld a bit. And do minor plumbing and electric stuff — because calling one out to Dilley is really expensive.

And I can handle a lot of auto repairs on pre 1990 vehicles.  

But one thing I’m looking forward to in retirement is teaching myself more of that kind of stuff.  And with YouTube anyone can learn a lot these days.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

I phrased that wrong.  There is plenty I didn’t figure out how to do, and plenty more I regret wrecking.  

[Okie State 3818]

I’m decently handy as I’ve spent a lot of time working at our family’s ranches growing up. I can drive a tractor.  Operate the skid steer and a dozer.  Weld a bit. And do minor plumbing and electric stuff — because calling one out to Dilley is really expensive.
And I can handle a lot of auto repairs on pre 1990 vehicles.  
But one thing I’m looking forward to in retirement is teaching myself more of that kind of stuff.  And with YouTube anyone can learn a lot these days.  

This is the kind of shit I love to do. Just don't have any damn time.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, Okie State said:

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’m decently handy as I’ve spent a lot of time working at our family’s ranches growing up. I can drive a tractor.  Operate the skid steer and a dozer.  Weld a bit. And do minor plumbing and electric stuff — because calling one out to Dilley is really expensive.
And I can handle a lot of auto repairs on pre 1990 vehicles.  
But one thing I’m looking forward to in retirement is teaching myself more of that kind of stuff.  And with YouTube anyone can learn a lot these days.  

This is the kind of shit I love to do. Just don't have any damn time.

Me too. But in retirement we can. Lots of time. And, again, YouTube has a how to video for just about everything. 

[Okie State 3818]

Me too. But in retirement we can. Lots of time. And, again, YouTube has a how to video for just about everything. 

I get questions all the time from guys at work about how I know how to do all this random shit. YouTube bros...it ain't rocket science. Although I've found out there are a whole lot of uncoordinated men out there who can't really do much of anything outside of a desk job.

 

Also message boards are a great source. Damn near everything you could want to DIY has already been done and documented with a step-by-step on the interwebs.

[bmbmd 1027]

6 hours ago, Wiler77 said:

 

My in-laws:  My FIL is a 71 year-old OB-GYN and will die at the hospital.  He took an Administration job at his hospital a few years ago (in addition to running his own practice) and the hours have just about killed him.  He "resigned" from that position a few months ago to be effective June 1, but unbeknownst to the family until 2 weeks ago, he rescinded that resignation.  So he's going to keep working 14 hour days for the next 2 years until his contract expires, and then he'll be back to just his one job running his practice.  The family is completely bitter over the whole thing since he was absent for every major event when his kids were growing up, and now history is repeating itself with his 7 grandkids (#8 on the way).  The problem is when I step back and look at him, he doesn't have any real hobbies.  He likes fixing things, and I'm sure he could stay busy for a few months getting things done around the house, but eventually the work dries up.  My guess is he's scared to death of not working.  Being a doctor is about the only thing he truly loves doing, his patients love him, he can't stand spending time with his wife--so he figures, "why retire".

Yep-that's the "Grand Old Man of Medicine" phenomenon.  I guess I've got a little of that-I plan to practice until I am at least seventy because it's all I know how to do any more. I like it, it keeps me engaged, and I'm still pretty good at it.  I am, however, looking forward to my wife's retirement. 

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

32 minutes ago, bmbmd said:

Yep-that's the "Grand Old Man of Medicine" phenomenon.  I guess I've got a little of that-I plan to practice until I am at least seventy because it's all I know how to do any more. I like it, it keeps me engaged, and I'm still pretty good at it.  I am, however, looking forward to my wife's retirement. 

Is that something that you could do part time if you wanted? Just see the patients you like and kick the ones that are a pain in the ass to the curb.

[Incredulity 11665]

Had lunch todar with a old business associate who is 3 years retired.

He said year 1 was hell and he almost got divorced over the adjustment of spending so much more time with his wife.

I will probably try something like the office for coffe and paper mentioned above.  Maybe use that as a few hours a day to focus on investments or something.  I could definitely see myself falling into the 8AMhappy hour problem without some structure.

[GhostOfTomJoad 9324]

One thing my wife & I have no desire to do in retirement is yard work. We'll by a lock'n'leave condo/townhome & throw away the garden tools. Depending upon where we end up, it may require replacing my charcoal Webers/WSM with a Traeger or something that's patio friendly. It'll be painful at first, but I look forward to the challenge of making great BBQ from a tool I haven't used before.

Retirement location will be key to us. We love to walk now & look forward to doing more when retired. A mixed use development would be ideal for us. We've already discussed the massive moving sale we'll have some day. We can't wait to start over again with a dorm-style mentality. Downsizing won't be a problem. Bring nothing with ya, then add what is needed. 

Best of luck to all you surly bastards. May your realities exceed your dreams.

[bmbmd 1027]

4 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Is that something that you could do part time if you wanted? Just see the patients you like and kick the ones that are a pain in the ass to the curb.

Half of my income comes from a side job that takes less than three hours a day-I can do that til I'm eighty.  

[Macanudo 12976]

5 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

That's all been replaced by defined contribution plans (cash balance) / matching 401(k) plans where the company has a fixed or variable obligations to contribute, but not an obligation to provide a set income for life.

Cash balance plans are NOT defined contribution (DC) plans.   They are defined benefit (DB) plans akin to the old fashioned "pension plan".   They credit a participant with a set percentage of their annual salary with interest.   Company I work at has one but they froze it within a few years of my arrival.   It was 6% of comp plus interest.   

A DC is either a 403b/401k  or 401a.  403b/401k allows employee deferrals with a possible employer match, non-elective profit sharing (PS) contribution or both.   A 401a plan can have a match or PS contribution.   In the non-profit world you see a lot of 403b deferral plans with a paired 401a plan with the match/PS contribution.   For profits usually sponsor 401k plans.   These DC plans have shifted the retirement burden from the employer to employee.   Never mind that the employer gets to take a sweet deduction on contributions and absolves themselves of what amounts to long term debt payments necessary to an old school DB plan.   

A very large chunk of employers make a very small match/PS contribution or nothing at all.   Employers have managed to move retirement savings to us which would be OK except all the money that used to go to a DB plan now goes back to shareholders (publicly traded) or owners/management (closely held/partnerships/LLPs/sole proprietorship/etc.)  If that was used to fund a realistic match or PS contribution or at the very least raise wages at a respectable clip each year, then it would be a reasonable approach to retirement.   But we all know wages have NOT kept up with inflation.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Macanudo

[High Plains Drifter 11035]

2 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I’ll maybe retire in the next 10 years. I’d like to create a sort of “life coach” business kinda like that old guy in into the wild, where you can teach kids stuff their parents either don’t know how to do or don’t have time for.  Changing tires and oil in cars, fixing clogged sinks, hell saddling a horse or keeping a lawn mower in decent condition. Cleaning behind the refrigerator with a shop vac.  Probably wouldn’t be successful but I know with my 18 year old boy it has been cool teaching him that small but essential stuff that my old man never had time to teach me.   How to run a house and when to call for reinforcements. 

Shit, I'd take that class.

[Okie State 3818]

I figure it's just a matter of time before even things like a 401k match are history with most companies. Gotta fund those share buybacks somehow.

[High Plains Drifter 11035]

Just now, High Plains Drifter said:

Shit, I'd take that class.

I say this because my oldest daughter has really gotten into horse back riding, and I'm guessing a horse might be in the future. Despite living in Arizona and Texas my entire life, I know not a damn thing about horses, excepting of course what I've read in Larry McMurtry novels.

[Okie State 3818]

Shit, I'd take that class.

I feel like that should be a required class in Highschool.

[52-80 19150]

6 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Had lunch todar with a old business associate who is 3 years retired.

He said year 1 was hell and he almost got divorced over the adjustment of spending so much more time with his wife.

I will probably try something like the office for coffe and paper mentioned above.  Maybe use that as a few hours a day to focus on investments or something.  I could definitely see myself falling into the 8AMhappy hour problem without some structure.

we had an old coot in the company whos like that.  was officially retired, but came back to work as a contractor (bizdev), into his 70s. 

then due to economic climate, we nixed the contract too, but he still literally strolls into the office today to have a coffee, chit-chat, and catch up on business issues.  

has a hobby importing french wines.  but i think he enjoyed getting away from the house, and the work was literally just flying around hob-nobbing with people 

[Dbeasy 15047]

I have dozens of friends who are 50+ that have made enough money to easily retire and live off the interest and not have to touch their principal, yet they continue to work.

[GottaB 594]

I thought retirement was something earlier generations did. I’ll probably have to work till I die.

[El Diablo 4232]

18 minutes ago, GottaB said:

I thought retirement was something earlier generations did. I’ll probably have to work till I die.

I think it's definitely something from the last 100 years or so. Looking forward to being lazy seems weird to me, and that's how some view their retirement.

[936horn 910]

Great thread. Blows my mind how many folks will have the means but don't want to retire. Perhaps it's because I'm only 30 and retirement is but a distant point on the horizon, but I've always thought once I had $xxMM saved up, I'd peace out for good. I feel like I've got no shortage of things I'd rather be doing than working - whether it's golf, hiking, gardening, woodworking, traveling whatever. My wife's uncle retired recently and is dabbling in wine and cheese making. I'd love to try shit like that.

On the flip side, I do know I will maybe feel different as I get closer to retirement. My dad is 65 and could have retired a decade or more ago but keeps working because he loves what he does. I also think it's not about how much money he has anymore, but the longer he works the more he and my mom can do charity-wise.

Edited May 30, 2018 by 936horn

[Aqua Buddha 14590]

The traits that make someone rich enough to retire early are the same traits that keep them from wanting to retire early.

[52-80 19150]

Curious how many of the type of people always talking about or waiting for retirement, also despise their day job?

Call me crazy, while i've got hobbies (and even more interests), for me going through the motions of all the tedium of life is life itself.  I like the day to day stuff as it is today, be it going to the grocery store, doing a job workshop, tweaking my bike, getting a promotion, receiving a package in the mail...  i dont want to swing it entirely one way or another

 

[baboso 6054]

10 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

I say this because my oldest daughter has really gotten into horse back riding, and I'm guessing a horse might be in the future. Despite living in Arizona and Texas my entire life, I know not a damn thing about horses, excepting of course what I've read in Larry McMurtry novels.

Prepare to spend a lot of money on an ongoing basis.

[Bateshorn 9927]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The traits that make someone rich enough to retire early are the same traits that keep them from wanting to retire early.

One of my favorite qoutes was from the Editor of Forbes.  He was interviewing a titan of Wall Street and asked "You made "$100 million last year with bonuses.  If I made $100 million in one year, I'd never work again.  What keeps you working?"  "That's why you'll never make $100 million in  a year."

[Sensitive Ponytail Man 9]

I want to retire as soon as my last kid is through college and I can get my cash flow under control.
They've been warned that living at home in their 20s and 30s is not part of my 21st century reality.
Unless they bring their job and approved jumbo mortgage application.
It will be well before I'm 65 or 67 or whatever the normal age is supposed to be.

So like some others here, by "retire" I also mean "get a low-stress part-time job" that meets most of my cash flow needs.
I got into a highly technical field after about 10 years in the workforce and I've constantly
battled the lack of a solid early foundation that I should have gotten right out of school.  I've outworked a lot of people and been
99.9% reliable, so my managers have typically liked me and paid me well, but I am constantly nagged by
a feeling that I am a fraud and will be found out.  Technical presentations are highly stressful
and usually followed by either a huge high or a crushing letdown and sleepless night.
I'm pretty much mentally done with all that, but there's nowhere else I can make this kind of money, and these are
my best earning years, during which I am socking away large chunks of it.  Walking away right now would be accepting
a step function down in standard of living both now and in the future.

The "retirement" career is going to be something low-stress that I like doing.
Like growing apples or doing bike tours.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Sensitive Ponytail Man

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 hour ago, 936horn said:

Great thread. Blows my mind how many folks will have the means but don't want to retire. Perhaps it's because I'm only 30 and retirement is but a distant point on the horizon, but I've always thought once I had $xxMM saved up, I'd peace out for good. I feel like I've got no shortage of things I'd rather be doing than working - whether it's golf, hiking, gardening, woodworking, traveling whatever. My wife's uncle retired recently and is dabbling in wine and cheese making. I'd love to try shit like that.

On the flip side, I do know I will maybe feel different as I get closer to retirement. My dad is 65 and could have retired a decade or more ago but keeps working because he loves what he does. I also think it's not about how much money he has anymore, but the longer he works the more he and my mom can do charity-wise.

I used to think that when I was 30. Now that I'm +50 and it's a reality, your mind changes. Maybe it's the thought of "retire = 1 step towards death".

I'm looking forward to doing shit on my own time at my own pace, but I still want to be productive.

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

40 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

One of my favorite qoutes was from the Editor of Forbes.  He was interviewing a titan of Wall Street and asked "You made "$100 million last year with bonuses.  If I made $100 million in one year, I'd never work again.  What keeps you working?"  "That's why you'll never make $100 million in  a year."

 

So good and so very true. 

[wood 11225]

20 hours ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

Surprised I'm not hearing more stories like whats happening wiht my MIL. Her son in his 30's doesnt work and has kids and she basically has to support him and his kids, so she was retired and now is "Semi-retired" in that she has to work to basically pay for him and his family. With how many "boomerang generation" kids you retired surlsters have, I'm surprised not more of you have been gullible enough to enable such things.

Fuck.That.Shit.

[Orange&White 5522]

1 hour ago, Sensitive Ponytail Man said:

I got into a highly technical field after about 10 years in the workforce and I've constantly
battled the lack of a solid early foundation that I should have gotten right out of school.  I've outworked a lot of people and been
99.9% reliable, so my managers have typically liked me and paid me well, but I am constantly nagged by
a feeling that I am a fraud and will be found out. 

Right there with you.

My technical background is lacking. My rise has been built solely on busting my ass and outworking people, but I always wonder if it will catch up, and I've been in the same org for 17 years.

[wood 11225]

18 hours ago, kmac30 said:

It’s invested and should be earning more than what a bank account is earning. 4-6% is what a cash balance should be set at. It’s a defined benefit (pension). You’re too young to get the most benefit. Not sure how big your company is, but let’s say the owner is 65. He’s able to put away 200k+ (depending on a few things) and that counts as a business deduction.

This caught my eye because I have 24 years in my pension and because of idiotic work changes, I am considering retiring a year earlier than I had always envisioned. I have the option to do a "drop" where, long story short, I can be paid a lump sum up front in return for taking a slightly smaller pension check. I can take the "drop" money out and do whatever with it, or I can leave it in the pension to be taken out later. If we leave drop money in the pension, they guarantee us 5% annual return. I'm not at all savvy when it comes to investment, but 5% guaranteed  seems like a pretty good deal, so much so that I'm tempted to drop the maximum amount & take the smaller pension because my house is paid off now & I can earn so much with my drop money in the pension. Am I being stoopid?

[Armybrat 40832]

Walking the Brushy Creek Lake Trail this morning at around 9:30am... no stress at all...

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Armybrat

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

23 minutes ago, Orange^White said:

Right there with you.

My technical background is lacking. My rise has been built solely on busting my ass and outworking people, but I always wonder if it will catch up, and I've been in the same org for 17 years.

Show up early. Always be kind and friendly to everyone. Be the "go to" guy when something is needed.

Trust me, you can work for a company forever with these traits. 

[Armybrat 40832]

A fellow oldfart apparently with no stress going on....

[Armybrat 40832]

My guess is, our compatriots over at there at the Avery Ranch Golf Club aren't enduring much stress either... unless they're hackers...

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The traits that make someone rich enough to retire early are the same traits that keep them from wanting to retire early.

Pretty much this usually.

[Armybrat 40832]

The morning breeze while walking across Dam # 7 at the park is always nice..

Edited May 30, 2018 by Armybrat

[wood 11225]

4 hours ago, El Diablo said:

I think it's definitely something from the last 100 years or so. Looking forward to being lazy seems weird to me, and that's how some view their retirement.

I think that's how some view it, but imho for most people, it's about having the freedom to do what you want to do, when you want to do it, or work where you want to work, etc, without having to do it.

[El Diablo 4232]

13 minutes ago, wood said:

I think that's how some view it, but imho for most people, it's about having the freedom to do what you want to do, when you want to do it, or work where you want to work, etc, without having to do it.

I think for MOST people it's about reaching that age that they can collect Social Security and I don't know what sort of lifestyle that is going to afford MOST people. Not to mention the costs of health care that are typical for those 70 and older.

[Sbbruin 21842]

The biggest threat to retirement for me is my cost of living.  I am going to have to SERIOUSLY pare that shit down.  And when the kids are out of college, that should start to be manageable, provided we have raised them right.  But we fucking hemorrhage money right now. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

The biggest threat to retirement for me is my cost of living.  I am going to have to SERIOUSLY pare that shit down.  And when the kids are out of college, that should start to be manageable, provided we have raised them right.  But we fucking hemorrhage money right now. 

Wait till you write a check for a wedding. You'll think you've been purged of all your blood in a quick slash to the throat...

[4th and 5 4914]

On 5/27/2018 at 10:59 AM, Okie State said:

This. I'll work my whole damn life saving up a nice chunk of change only to die of a heart attack the day after I retire. Just watch.

Happened to my buddy. Sold his business for millions, bought a ranch, 5 beachhouses to rent/live in, a Shelby Cobra, racing Vettes, bikes, and everything else he could ever want.

Came back from an epic fishing trip to Alaska (while Harvey battered Texas) went to Port A and saw his dream beachhouse and the rest of them leveled or heavily damaged, had a heart attack and died that night. Less than a year after retiring.

Fuck you Harvey

 

[bluto 4916]

No offense to your buddy and surly Gulf coast mafia but my dream beachhouse damn well wouldn't be located on the Gulf of Mexico (I said no offense)

[Sbbruin 21842]

11 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Wait till you write a check for a wedding. You'll think you've been purged of all your blood in a quick slash to the throat...

Yeah, that'll hurt.  Fortunately only one girl.  And I am pretty certain that no man will be good enough for her in my eyes, so I ain't paying for a wedding I don't approve of.

[Sbbruin 21842]

12 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

Happened to my buddy. Sold his business for millions, bought a ranch, 5 beachhouses to rent/live in, a Shelby Cobra, racing Vettes, bikes, and everything else he could ever want.

Came back from an epic fishing trip to Alaska (while Harvey battered Texas) went to Port A and saw his dream beachhouse and the rest of them leveled or heavily damaged, had a heart attack and died that night. Less than a year after retiring.

Fuck you Harvey