We could use some prison reform

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

That's the key -- that's our entire pivot point.

When people have completed their statutorily-mandated sentence, what outcome do we want AFTER that?

Make them unemployable for life?  How does that work out well for the rest of us?  So Bob the ex-con is either utterly poor and depends on public assistance, OR, Bob the ex-con does what many folks do when they are forced out of the legitimate marketplace: he participates in the illegitimate marketplace (criminal activity) to make money?  That outcome is good for the rest of us....how, exactly?

Yes, public safety should still remain in play.  Convicted rapists probably shouldn't be pre-school teachers, etc.  But does that mean that they shouldn't be employable in an office billing department, for example?

What is good for SOCIETY when ex-cons are released?  If you think the answer is "punish them more!  CONSEQUENCES!!", you're being short-sighted as hell.  We've already imposed statutorily-prescribed consequences.  If your answer is "MORE!", then let's just be honest about it, and mandate that every felony conviction means life in prison.

I get what you're saying but a company also has to protect their other employees along with having the right to choose their employees.  When that ex-con rapist decides to rape their co-worker while working late one night, its seems like the company has some liability issues there.

[Brisketexan 104465]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I get what you're saying but a company also has to protect their other employees along with having the right to choose their employees.  When that ex-con rapist decides to rape their co-worker while working late one night, its seems like the company has some liability issues there.

They may.  And the law should allow/provide for specific circumstances.  One-size-fits-all is a terrible approach.  It's a terrible approach if we make felons effectively unemployable, it would likewise be a terrible approach if we mandated that all jobs be open to all felons in all cases.

I think that the easiest lines to draw are property/drug crimes versus crimes against a person.  Non-violent felonies should not bar you from future employment, save and except specific matching crimes and categories (e.g., a fraud conviction means you can't work in fnance).  Tim Allen was part of a drug ring.  I think most of us would be just fine if Tim Allen worked in our office today.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

I agree that some convictions shouldn't prevent you from being able to competently perform future work.   The problem that you have is that we live in the information age that can easily allow this info to be available and companies have the right to choose who they want to hire.  There are only a few handful of protected items that can't legally be considered.   do we want to put protections in place for ex-cons?  that's a hard sell.

[Brisketexan 104465]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I agree that some convictions shouldn't prevent you from being able to competently perform future work.   The problem that you have is that we live in the information age that can easily allow this info to be available and companies have the right to choose who they want to hire.  There are only a few handful of protected items that can't legally be considered.   do we want to put protections in place for ex-cons?  that's a hard sell.

It is indeed a hard sell.  I would think that it would have to be packaged with some sort of limitation of liability: I can't refuse to hire someone because of convictions X, Y, or Z, and likewise, in the event of a claim against me, the fact that I DID hire someone convicted of X, Y, or Z cannot be admitted into evidence or considered in the case, and can in no way form any basis for a finding of liability.

There's no question that our creation of a de-facto system of (1) be convicted of ANY felony, even a nonviolent one, (2) complete serving your time, (3) never be able to take on decent employment, ever, for the rest of your life, is a counter-productive failure. It is bad for society.  It costs us a crapload of money (gov't support, costs of recidivism).  And, not to be ignored, it's cruel.