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closetojumping
closetojumping

Thanks for the thoughts. The original HWH team getting the original IP out into the open and getting the longform IRS approval were instrumental in all of this. That's @SquishMitten @RGBIII @SydneyCar

closetojumping
closetojumping

Outside of unifying all initiatives under one umbrella, which wasn't a small feat for the parties involved, there are two really big things here: 1) All players in all sports will be making money

closetojumping
closetojumping

I went to the tournament and the gala. Kind of obligated on it and to pay for it, or part of it. It was all well done and a ton of money was raised. We’d committed to a nut for this new cycle for full

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BornAndRaised

BornAndRaised 12201

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

This is a rake that you didnt step on

Would it be possible for TOF to release the number of new donators that have occurred from the end of b12 championship until now? Would also be cool to see how many people donated once we got announced in the CFP. Not looking for $ amounts but more amount of people who decided to get involved. I pushed that shit hard yesterday as well in the surly twitter.

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immamac

immamac 41747

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, BornAndRaised said:

Holy fuck. No compensation cap and schools in the upper division would gain autonomy regarding scholarship caps?

There is currently no cap and the scholarships matter less than they used to since you can just pay for their school outside of scholarship.

this would be a step in the right direction, but I don’t see why the big conferences even need the NCAA at that point. They provide very little value anymore outside of the basketball tournament in March. 

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BornAndRaised

BornAndRaised 12201

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, immamac said:

There is currently no cap and the scholarships matter less than they used to since you can just pay for their school outside of scholarship.

this would be a step in the right direction, but I don’t see why the big conferences even need the NCAA at that point. They provide very little value anymore outside of the basketball tournament in March. 

It seems like it's the NCAA trying to get ahead of the 2 big conferences making their own ruling entity. I think the proposed scope is huge though. Especially from a notoriously ironfisted organization.

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 38889

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, BornAndRaised said:

It seems like it's the NCAA trying to get ahead of the 2 big conferences making their own ruling entity. I think the proposed scope is huge though. Especially from a notoriously ironfisted organization.

Bingo. And I think their efforts will be futile because it would diminish the true value of what the football programs can earn. 

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 38889

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Sir Ulrich said:

 

For a full football team this is at least $2.5 million annually. I sure am glad that we don't have $7.5 million in dead money going to somebody not to coach while this is being installed. 

 

Title IX is another reason this will never work and why a break away is more likely

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Kwix

Kwix 2186

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Sir Ulrich said:

 

For a full football team this is at least $2.5 million annually. I sure am glad that we don't have $7.5 million in dead money going to somebody not to coach while this is being installed. 

 

Did you see the Title IX part.  If you spend 2.5 on men, you are spending 5 total.

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Sir Ulrich

Sir Ulrich 5187

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Title IX is another reason this will never work and why a break away is more likely

I have the same thought. 

Per the AAS in 2016 there were 537 athletes on campus which would put half around 270 and a total of $8.1 million minimum for UT. 

If it just the full scholarship count of 190 then it would be 95 for $2.85 million. 

Obviously it would be double that for the biggest brands that want to deposit the minimum (or more) for their full rosters. 

How many schools, if this passes, has $15 million plus on hand to stay competitive? 

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 38889

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kwix said:

Did you see the Title IX part.  If you spend 2.5 on men, you are spending 5 total.

 

1 hour ago, TexasRenegade said:

The Title IX requirement won't go away by breaking away.  We aren't subject to title IX because of the NCAA.

 

1 hour ago, Hornlover said:

So you think Title IX is an NCAA rule that would be optional if the conferences broke away?

You all thinking the athletic program as a whole is breaking away from ncaa. It’s football/basketball that would break away. 

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Chopper

Chopper 16666

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, utfan87 said:

There has been a big push to remove football from the title ix because of the imbalance it provides to women’s sports and it’s unfair to men’s sports. 

I hope you're not holding your breath while waiting for results from that "push."

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TexasRenegade

TexasRenegade 2391

Posted
Posted
Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

 

 

You all thinking the athletic program as a whole is breaking away from ncaa. It’s football/basketball that would break away. 

The university still receives federal dollars and would still be subject to Title IX?  Football and basketball aren't suddenly exempt because they aren't in the NCAA?

 

 

51 minutes ago, utfan87 said:

There has been a big push to remove football from the title ix because of the imbalance it provides to women’s sports and it’s unfair to men’s sports. 

Also the idea that they will ever exempt football from title IX is hillarious.  It would basically kill funding for most women's sports.

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TexasRenegade

TexasRenegade 2391

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The push has already started. Don’t even realignment bro. 

It will never happen.  The feds aren't suddenly going to go ok these 85 or more scholarships don't count towards gender equity so don't worry about it.

I'll go ahead say it for him, @closetojumping will fist @futureman while racing @SydneyCarton in a naked 40 down the drag if they ever exempt football from Title IX.

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Magus Ossis

Magus Ossis 2749

Posted
Posted (edited)

Anything the university spends on men, it must spend on women. This is the world of Title IX. Several options:

1. Forget the idea of paying directly from the school.

2. Pay key men's sports and have a pool of equal $ curated to go to equal number of recipients for women, view it as fairness/ loss/ whatever. Cost of doing business.

3. Spend the money permitted to set up school support for fundraising but keep the money to athletes from ever being school dollars. Give equal resources to running an NIL collective for men and for women, but have the actual donations come from elsewhere. Cover as much of the cost (other than actual payments to athletes) as possible from entity A -- equal; cover the direct payments with the fruits of entity A's efforts, realized by entities B (football) and C (other/ women). The school does not contribute unequally, but can't help it if donors do.

Paying directly from the school tips you out of technical amateurism, with all the attending legal consequences. 

Edited by Magus Ossis
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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 38889

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, TexasRenegade said:

The university still receives federal dollars and would still be subject to Title IX?  Football and basketball aren't suddenly exempt because they aren't in the NCAA?

 

 

Also the idea that they will ever exempt football from title IX is hillarious.  It would basically kill funding for most women's sports.

You’re not understanding that the school wouldn’t be providing the benefits to the student athletes it would be their league/conference/team that would in all this. The team/league would just be loosely affiliated with the university. 

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TexasRenegade

TexasRenegade 2391

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You’re not understanding that the school wouldn’t be providing the benefits to the student athletes it would be their league/conference/team that would in all this. The team/league would just be loosely affiliated with the university. 

serious joe pesci GIFShocked Danny Devito GIFHappy Cracking Up GIF by ZDF heute-show

 

Ok..... 1st The University of Texas has to publicly be agreeing to what will be seen as a scam to get out of spending equal money on Women's sports, by joining a "loose affiliation" of schools that just happen to play the 2 highest revenue sports.

2nd the Feds have to somehow believe this absurdity that it isn't the school's money being paid to the athletes/scholarships and isn't really a scam to get around federal legislation for gender equity....

 

Vine Ok GIF

 

Edited by TexasRenegade
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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 38889

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, texifornia said:

I for one am shocked that BOW is leading the charge on not paying women

Business decisions will be made because with the NCAA controlling the money football programs especially in what could be the new division are missing out on so much money. Who knows the teams could donate money to the school once all their budget is assessed similar to how they do now. 

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Chopper

Chopper 16666

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You’re not understanding that the school wouldn’t be providing the benefits to the student athletes it would be their league/conference/team that would in all this. The team/league would just be loosely affiliated with the university. 

Which part of "federal law" do you not understand, and why do you think a University spending money on sports even through a separate party would make them somehow immune from the law? There's lots of attorneys on Surly, if you need help I'm sure you can find one to help you, pro bono, to form a semi-coherent response. Well tbh I doubt you can but I'm being gratuitous.

 

image.png

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 38889

Posted
Posted
Just now, Chopper said:

Which part of "federal law" do you not understand, and why do you think a University spending money on sports even through a separate party would make them somehow immune from the law? There's lots of attorneys on Surly, if you need help I'm sure you can find one help you to form a semi-coherent response. Well tbh I doubt you can but I'm being gratuitous.

 

image.png

What is the subdivision? If they aren’t part of that subdivision then it’s irrelevant. 

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 18966

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

 

You all thinking the athletic program as a whole is breaking away from ncaa. It’s football/basketball that would break away. 

 

17 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You’re not understanding that the school wouldn’t be providing the benefits to the student athletes it would be their league/conference/team that would in all this. The team/league would just be loosely affiliated with the university. 

 

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Business decisions will be made because with the NCAA controlling the money football programs especially in what could be the new division are missing out on so much money. Who knows the teams could donate money to the school once all their budget is assessed similar to how they do now. 

You make Helobius look like a Rhodes Scholar. 

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Chopper

Chopper 16666

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

What is the subdivision? If they aren’t part of that subdivision then it’s irrelevant. 

I don't pay a lot of attention to the various personalities on Surly. Maybe you're clowning but you have me convinced you're completely demented.

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 47486

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hornlover said:

Can we go ahead and update this thread title to "NIL Recruiting News - Watching BO&W Repeatedly Step on Rakes" ?

Lets not give that guy outsized signifigance on our entire recruiting forum. One thread title is fine.

You just need to have a whole suite of gifs ready to post at any time. 

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Jabberwocky

Jabberwocky 1666

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Kwix said:

Are they going to ban athletes earning off their NIL?  Because none of those labor organizations have that restriction.

No, but this means pensions, unionized wage negotiations, medical coverage, and tax liability for the schools. This would open up a whole new can of costs. Who knows what other implications come from this?

 

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Moderator

Moderator 98

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Jabberwocky said:

No, but this means pensions, unionized wage negotiations, medical coverage, and tax liability for the schools. This would open up a whole new can of costs. Who knows what other implications come from this?

 

I don't believe any of these unions have any say over the Name Image and Likeness deals athletes get?  I also don't believe that because I have no clue.  I assumed the only NIL funding the unions cover are for entire union being in a video game, but I believe players can opt out of those if they wish.  NIL isn't schools paying players to play football so I think the unions are going to have a tough time getting a piece of this. 

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NoName

NoName 16241

Posted
Posted

https://footballscoop.com/news/this-wild-nil-idea-involving-live-in-game-donations-might-just-work

This wild NIL idea involving live in-game donations might just work

Imagine being able to Venmo players in real-time after big plays.
 
  •  
Spoiler

From Arizona State to Kentucky, and everywhere in between, FBS head coaches are pounding the table for everyone from boosters to average fans to find ways to get involved in the NIL efforts. 

Funding NIL has quickly become both a top priority and absolute necessity in an effort to keep up with the tops programs in college football.

Maybe there's an outside-the-box solution out there that could get everyone more involved in NIL efforts?

That's where this idea from Bill Busch, a veteran former college coach turned permanent radio host on 93.7 The Ticket, could come in to "make it fair, and make it fun,"

Busch has a background where he's coached at Nebraska during three different stints as well as stops at Ohio State, Wisconsin, Rutgers, Utah, Utah State, and New Mexico State so he brings an interesting perspective of a veteran college coach to the conversation.

"Here's how it works. Make a play. Get paid," he explains.

Busch then lays out a situation where a player makes a big play, and the Jumbotron immediately flashes the player's Venmo account on the screen, allowing fans to donate in real-time and then the screen tracks and displays the total donations coming in live for all to see.

Imagine if something like that were in place for plays like the "Iron Bowl's Kick Six," or Michael Crabtree's tiptoe up the sideline to beat Texas in 2008, or the "Trouble with the Snap" (Michigan State vs. Michigan) in 2015.

A defensive lineman could rack up some serious dough for a sack in a big game, or blocked field goal or extra point to win the game like North Dakota State had last weekend to knock Montana State out of the playoffs.

A few weekends ago, in the Division III playoffs, Alma knocked off D-III power Mount Union in the waning moments of the game with a jump-pass. In the situation Busch lays out, key players involved there could have easily made a few thousand dollars capitalizing on that moment.

The one spot that may not see the impact of this would be the offensive line, but programs may be willing get creative, doing pancake highlights, or just be very intentional in shining a light on those guys in creative ways to get them involved. 

There's likely some NCAA or legal red tape regarding NIL donations that would have to get sorted through if this were to ever even flirt with becoming a reality, but it's a fascinating idea that would immediately get everyone involved in-game and make games a fascinating and interactive experience for everyone watching.

If this gets some legs, it's very possible that instead of seeing social media handles on the backs of players jerseys in spring games this fall, we could see their Venmo tag. Who will be the first to do that?

this could be set up but would need to be done in a different way, right? it's basically the BAMF awards here, but if you give one of those out @immamac you guys have to have some kind of contract, right? it isn't like you are sending someone straight venmo.

seems like an idea that could/would work for everyone from the smaller schools up to the p5s.

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NoName

NoName 16241

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Jabberwocky said:

This might all be over soon.

the players unions have a long history of not giving a good damn about anyone who isn't a member. the MLBPA constantly screws over minor leaguers, draftees, foreign players, J2 signees, etc in favor of their members/MLB players.

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Lone Star Horn

Lone Star Horn 2007

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, NoName said:

https://footballscoop.com/news/this-wild-nil-idea-involving-live-in-game-donations-might-just-work

This wild NIL idea involving live in-game donations might just work

Imagine being able to Venmo players in real-time after big plays.
 
  •  
  Hide contents

From Arizona State to Kentucky, and everywhere in between, FBS head coaches are pounding the table for everyone from boosters to average fans to find ways to get involved in the NIL efforts. 

Funding NIL has quickly become both a top priority and absolute necessity in an effort to keep up with the tops programs in college football.

Maybe there's an outside-the-box solution out there that could get everyone more involved in NIL efforts?

That's where this idea from Bill Busch, a veteran former college coach turned permanent radio host on 93.7 The Ticket, could come in to "make it fair, and make it fun,"

Busch has a background where he's coached at Nebraska during three different stints as well as stops at Ohio State, Wisconsin, Rutgers, Utah, Utah State, and New Mexico State so he brings an interesting perspective of a veteran college coach to the conversation.

"Here's how it works. Make a play. Get paid," he explains.

Busch then lays out a situation where a player makes a big play, and the Jumbotron immediately flashes the player's Venmo account on the screen, allowing fans to donate in real-time and then the screen tracks and displays the total donations coming in live for all to see.

Imagine if something like that were in place for plays like the "Iron Bowl's Kick Six," or Michael Crabtree's tiptoe up the sideline to beat Texas in 2008, or the "Trouble with the Snap" (Michigan State vs. Michigan) in 2015.

A defensive lineman could rack up some serious dough for a sack in a big game, or blocked field goal or extra point to win the game like North Dakota State had last weekend to knock Montana State out of the playoffs.

A few weekends ago, in the Division III playoffs, Alma knocked off D-III power Mount Union in the waning moments of the game with a jump-pass. In the situation Busch lays out, key players involved there could have easily made a few thousand dollars capitalizing on that moment.

The one spot that may not see the impact of this would be the offensive line, but programs may be willing get creative, doing pancake highlights, or just be very intentional in shining a light on those guys in creative ways to get them involved. 

There's likely some NCAA or legal red tape regarding NIL donations that would have to get sorted through if this were to ever even flirt with becoming a reality, but it's a fascinating idea that would immediately get everyone involved in-game and make games a fascinating and interactive experience for everyone watching.

If this gets some legs, it's very possible that instead of seeing social media handles on the backs of players jerseys in spring games this fall, we could see their Venmo tag. Who will be the first to do that?

this could be set up but would need to be done in a different way, right? it's basically the BAMF awards here, but if you give one of those out @immamac you guys have to have some kind of contract, right? it isn't like you are sending someone straight venmo.

seems like an idea that could/would work for everyone from the smaller schools up to the p5s.

Also, isn't it one of the few rules of NIL that you can't pay for performance?

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 47486

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Lone Star Horn said:

Also, isn't it one of the few rules of NIL that you can't pay for performance?

You can't write a contract based on performance. "Get 12 TDs and you'll get 50k" isn't a legal contract. But having 50k people in a stadium spontaniously choosing to donate to you because something awesome just happened isn't a contract, and it isn't illegal. 

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Kwix

Kwix 2186

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lone Star Horn said:

Also, isn't it one of the few rules of NIL that you can't pay for performance?

I'm assuming that you just can't tie payments to future performance.  Obviously past performance is going to affect a players popularity.

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