Aluminum Wiring, Tell Me About it

[Homercles 10,205]

21 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Saw another one with aluminum wiring, today.

Whoever said that they're selling teardowns for a million bucks nailed it.

Fuck this market.

In the ass.

 

What’s the matter pussy, you don’t want to keep an eye out for smoking outlets to replace on occasion?  Don’t want to throw the main breaker everytime you go on vacation?

[beer 3,220]

On 3/28/2022 at 8:05 PM, Bevo said:

If conduit is used can't you simply remove all the cover plates and go into the attic and pull new Romex down from there. That doesn't sound too hard.

I put all my romex inside conduit.  You know, just to be sure. 

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

My house (built in 1950) that I bought 5 years ago has aluminum wiring.

I had no problem with insurance (State Farm) and (as I understand it) as long as you have proper CO/ALR recepts throughout the house it's no big deal. 

I mean, the fucker didn't burn down for nearly 70 years before I owned it and I personally replaced all of the recepts in the house with CO/ALR versions so I figure I'm safe.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,872]

My first ex in-laws had a house with aluminum wiring.  They're both dead.

[Updawg 2,266]

My first ex in-laws had a house with aluminum wiring.  They're both dead.

Because of std’s or wiring?

[Nivek 16,916]

Because of std’s or wiring?

Plane crash.

[TwiceHorn 31,438]

19 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

My house (built in 1950) that I bought 5 years ago has aluminum wiring.

I had no problem with insurance (State Farm) and (as I understand it) as long as you have proper CO/ALR recepts throughout the house it's no big deal. 

I mean, the fucker didn't burn down for nearly 70 years before I owned it and I personally replaced all of the recepts in the house with CO/ALR versions so I figure I'm safe.

That's odd.  It seems prime time for Al wiring was late 60s early 70s.

On the one hand, with both Al wiring and the slab foundations of which I am highly skeptical, going a long time without a major problem is reassuring.  On the other hand, you wonder if you're due.

My understanding is that every wire joint in an Al house is susceptible to problems, not just receptacles and switches that can be dealt with relatively easily.

And every one of the Al-wired houses we have seen have been "fixed" with "purple nut pigtails."  I'm just not satisfied that that is an adequate solution.  It seems to be a corner-cut, and it makes me wonder what nasty, corroded and unrepaired joints are in there waiting to burst into flame.

[Incredulity 11,649]

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's odd.  It seems prime time for Al wiring was late 60s early 70s.

On the one hand, with both Al wiring and the slab foundations of which I am highly skeptical, going a long time without a major problem is reassuring.  On the other hand, you wonder if you're due.

My understanding is that every wire joint in an Al house is susceptible to problems, not just receptacles and switches that can be dealt with relatively easily.

And every one of the Al-wired houses we have seen have been "fixed" with "purple nut pigtails."  I'm just not satisfied that that is an adequate solution.  It seems to be a corner-cut, and it makes me wonder what nasty, corroded and unrepaired joints are in there waiting to burst into flame.

There should be no hidden connections in any home electrical wiring.  Buried boxes are a big no-no.  Any permitted electrical work would be highly unlikely to have that condition.  

[UT_OB1 2,213]

Your main panel is going to be aluminum. Cross off all the house in your list. 
 

And I prefer slab foundations unless the house is at least 6’ off the ground so I can walk under it. 

[Incredulity 11,649]

12 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

Your main panel is going to be aluminum. Cross off all the house in your list. 
 

And I prefer slab foundations unless the house is at least 6’ off the ground so I can walk under it. 

 

many copper wired houses also have aluminum wiring to range, dryer or furnace.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Incredulity

[Jkwellborn 6,686]

Your main panel is going to be aluminum. Cross off all the house in your list. 
 
And I prefer slab foundations unless the house is at least 6’ off the ground so I can walk under it. 

Yeah, but it’s tied directly into the panel. It’s not spliced together anywhere.

[TwiceHorn 31,438]

37 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

And I prefer slab foundations unless the house is at least 6’ off the ground so I can walk under it. 

I don't know where you live, but this seems foolish.

[Incredulity 11,649]

50 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Yeah, but it’s tied directly into the panel. It’s not spliced together anywhere.

It is screw connected to the panel bus bars just like it would be connected to an outlet.

[TwiceHorn 31,438]

Just now, Incredulity said:

It is screw connected to the panel bus bars just like it would be connected to an outlet.

With screws and connections designed for aluminum.  Unlike houses built in the 60s and early 70s.

[Jkwellborn 6,686]

It is screw connected to the panel bus bars just like it would be connected to an outlet.

Ummm no.

[Incredulity 11,649]

5 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Ummm no.

 

ummm, yes.  The two large black wires in the top third of this image are aluminum screw connected to bus bars in this panel.  Very typical.

[Orale 1,087]

How much is a rewire these days? I did a 2,000 foot house for $7k six years ago in SA. Even at twice or even three times the price it would be worth it in my mind for an otherwise solid house in this crazy market.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[Jkwellborn 6,686]

 
ummm, yes.  The two large black wires in the top third of this image are aluminum screw connected to bus bars in this panel.  Very typical.

I’m well aware of how they go in a panel. It’s a little different on the back of an outlet.

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:17 AM, TwiceHorn said:

That's odd.  It seems prime time for Al wiring was late 60s early 70s.

On the one hand, with both Al wiring and the slab foundations of which I am highly skeptical, going a long time without a major problem is reassuring.  On the other hand, you wonder if you're due.

My understanding is that every wire joint in an Al house is susceptible to problems, not just receptacles and switches that can be dealt with relatively easily.

And every one of the Al-wired houses we have seen have been "fixed" with "purple nut pigtails."  I'm just not satisfied that that is an adequate solution.  It seems to be a corner-cut, and it makes me wonder what nasty, corroded and unrepaired joints are in there waiting to burst into flame.

Can you explain what you mean here?

My understanding was that the big issue with AL wiring was where it interfaced with copper, because of oxidation issues. Hence, light fixtures, switches and recepts were the main concerns.

Also - the other thing that makes me not worry so much is that most fixtures and recepts aren’t pulling nearly the load that they were back in the day. Light fixtures pull like 80% less power with LEDs vs. incandescents… many other big power pullers (refrigerators, dishwashers, etc.) are also FAR more efficient and use way less power than they did for most of the life of my house.  Even modern LED TVs that are WAY larger than old CRT versions pull way less power.

[TwiceHorn 31,438]

5 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Can you explain what you mean here?

My understanding was that the big issue with AL wiring was where it interfaced with copper, because of oxidation issues. Hence, light fixtures, switches and recepts were the main concerns.

Also - the other thing that makes me not worry so much is that most fixtures and recepts aren’t pulling nearly the load that they were back in the day. Light fixtures pull like 80% less power with LEDs vs. incandescents… many other big power pullers (refrigerators, dishwashers, etc.) are also FAR more efficient and use way less power than they did for most of the life of my house.  Even modern LED TVs that are WAY larger than old CRT versions pull way less power.

Aluminum does two things when it carries current, it heats up and it expands.  Both to a greater degree than copper.

All aluminum wiring in the "bad old days" was connected to terminals designed for copper wire, which means not designed to accommodate the expansion, and in some cases with brass screws and hardware (see discussion of copper and aluminum below). So the connections physically loosened over time, and in the case of brass corroded, reducing the conductivity of the connection, leading to further heating and the gaps to arcing or sparking.

So, you splice in a length of copper wire to make the termination, a "pigtail.."  Except copper and aluminum are a galvanic pair and corrode the shit out of each other.  So you have another problem of the corrosion making the physical connection suspect, leading to overheating and arcing.

There are three ways to connect copper and aluminum.  The purple nuts, which are conventional wire nuts filled with anti-corrosive material.  COPAL connectors that have separate screw or other terminals for each type of conductor.  And a type of crimp that mechanically welds the two wires together in a way that is not susceptible to galvanic corrosion or separation by differential expansion.

[TwiceHorn 31,438]

Also, something else I learned about aluminum wiring.  Except for being a bad pair with copper, stranded aluminum wire doesn't do the things that solid aluminum wiring does.  Pretty sure the big wires in the fuse box above are stranded, and also very positively terminated.  The main problem seems to be small gauge solid aluminum wire using screw-down and wire nut type connectors, that is, the stuff that makes up household wiring.

Also, a different alloy was developed in the later 70s that is less objectionable than that used in the late 60s and early 70s.

Aluminum is still preferred for a lot of "big conductor" applications because it is far less dense than copper, and thus less heavy.  So even though its conductivity is a lot lower, a lighter big fat cable can be made of aluminum.

Edited May 9, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Gil Bang 25,907]

19 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Also, something else I learned about aluminum wiring.  Except for being a bad pair with copper, stranded aluminum wire doesn't do the things that solid aluminum wiring does.  Pretty sure the big wires in the fuse box above are stranded, and also very positively terminated.  The main problem seems to be small gauge solid aluminum wire using screw-down and wire nut type connectors, that is, the stuff that makes up household wiring.

Also, a different alloy was developed in the later 70s that is less objectionable than that used in the late 60s and early 70s.

Aluminum is still preferred for a lot of "big conductor" applications because it is far less dense than copper, and thus less heavy.  So even though its conductivity is a lot lower, a lighter big fat cable can be made of aluminum.

I just got my main panel replaced (because the solar people told me I need to in order to get solar), and yes, the feeder wires that come in from the pole are aluminum. 

[TwiceHorn 31,438]

Dammit, another house we like with aluminum wiring and nothing stated about even pigtailing it.

I'd feel more comfortable just rewiring the damned thing.

[TwiceHorn 31,438]

So, it appears that some of you with "untreated" aluminum wiring have homeowners insurance.  Was there an extra charge?

 

The internet seems to think that HO may not be available if it is not remedied in some way, at least from some carriers.  And the better the remedy, the better the premium.

 

When we asked the listing agent about Al wiring and what had been done, she just kind of said "wut"?

[chainsaw 9,857]

15 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, it appears that some of you with "untreated" aluminum wiring have homeowners insurance.  Was there an extra charge?

 

The internet seems to think that HO may not be available if it is not remedied in some way, at least from some carriers.  And the better the remedy, the better the premium.

 

When we asked the listing agent about Al wiring and what had been done, she just kind of said "wut"?

Just buy it and be legends.

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

On 8/8/2022 at 5:51 PM, TwiceHorn said:

So, it appears that some of you with "untreated" aluminum wiring have homeowners insurance.  Was there an extra charge?

 

The internet seems to think that HO may not be available if it is not remedied in some way, at least from some carriers.  And the better the remedy, the better the premium.

 

When we asked the listing agent about Al wiring and what had been done, she just kind of said "wut"?

I have State Farm and while they threw a fit about my roof (had to be replaced) they gave zero fucks about the aluminum wiring. Didn't even bring it up.