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Austin -- We are losing this place

DalTxHornFan

By DalTxHornFan
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YGIFS

YGIFS 19445

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13 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

I don’t believe that’s the real mural because it doesn’t have BUSCAR spray painted on it.

This is hilarious to me because every single real estate group I know from my HOA to the UT real estate team to my bond commission to RECA all have some kinda 'task force' to figure out what the fuck is going on with BUSCAR everywhere and how to stop it.  I'm not saying it's related to the Rainey Street mystery deaths.  But I'm not not saying that either.  This thing is far beyond graffiti or street art at this point.  It's something altogether different.  But a real estate attorney has an interesting theory, he thinks it's related to all the Nate Paul "World Class Capital" Banners that were on every third building in Central Austin for a few years.  

1 hour ago, MAUFRAIS said:

I would imagine after the uptown enchilda bar block and the graduate hotel get built, then Tcby down to Pizza Hut will sell and get redeveloped.

I think that's the play.  Once permitting is approved on that hotel, the value of the pizza hut to tcby block goes way up.  The ingress/egress issue is still gonna be a pain in the ass though with the bus-only lane to the west of pizza hut that would really limit what you could do there though (plus it's a goofy ass shaped block).  And you don;t have to vertical by much, but more than there's now which would fuck up the parking space ratio on that tight space.  Heck, that little tiny dog park next to Peach tree apartments probably becomes the most valuable greenspace in Central Austin (per acre).  I've never know the backstory or future story to the Greenwood Towers.  Anybody know?  

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Macanudo
Macanudo

True story....   I lived in an apartment on Nueces right where it splits off of Guadalupe there where Ken's was and Dirty's is for a year my junior year (91-92.)   I ate a shit ton of both.   But the

Biff Tannen
Biff Tannen

I went into Ken's one night on mushrooms and when I went to get water from the fountain the lever stuck and I couldn't figure out how to make it stop so water was just pouring out all over the floor a

jimmyjazz
jimmyjazz

We went to Dan's because of this thread.  Cheeseburger, fries, onion rings and milk shakes.  I'm gonna die Elvis Presley style on the shitter.

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ftf82

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19 minutes ago, ftf82 said:

Greenwood Towers is on a ground lease (or was) that should be expiring sometime in the next few years. Had someone ask me to review the condo documents to buy a unit there a few years back.

Can't edit for some reason, but ground lease may not be expiring in the "next few years". Don't recall exactly when, but remember it being a leasehold condo and not on a fee. If that's the case, it will foul up redevelopment for awhile.

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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3071

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2 hours ago, ftf82 said:

Can't edit for some reason, but ground lease may not be expiring in the "next few years". Don't recall exactly when, but remember it being a leasehold condo and not on a fee. If that's the case, it will foul up redevelopment for awhile.

I just looked at a Loop Net listing for a ground floor office space condo in Greenwood Towers.  It says that the ground lease expires in 2065, which makes sense.  Likely a 99 year ground lease when it was built in 1966.

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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3071

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It depends upon what the ground lease says.  Some just say that all of the improvements on the land revert to the land owner.  Others say that the land must be delivered back to the owner with all of the improvements removed.  Given the huge increase in the value of that property, I bet that there is plenty of room for a developer to renegotiate/buy out that lease and also buy out the condo owners to make way for a redevelopment.

Full disclosure -- my son and his wife lived in a rental unit there from around 2019-2022.  Very outdated heating/cooling systems and elevators.  With a great location like that, plus the fact that the current improvements are not tall enough,  it needs to be redeveloped.   

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YGIFS

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8 hours ago, royiv said:

What happens in 2065 if you own a condo in that building?

You have to move to Del Boca Vista, Phase 3 by canonical law.  

Who owns the land proper that issued the ground lease?  I'm sure some American Campus Communities has their eye on it.  RIP, Burck. 

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DalTxHornFan

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2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

You have to move to Del Boca Vista, Phase 3 by canonical law.  

Who owns the land proper that issued the ground lease?  I'm sure some American Campus Communities has their eye on it.  RIP, Burck. 

I looked at that, but couldn't figure it out reliably.  It still may be held in the Wooten family.  Yes, Virginia, there actually was a guy named Goodall Wooten that was involved in developing that property.  I think that Sr. was a physician in Austin and Jr. was a pharmacist.  They both did a lot of real estate stuff in the area north of the Capitol back in the day.

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texasdago

texasdago 7407

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On 4/19/2023 at 6:56 PM, YGIFS said:

I could see one on West Slaughter staying in business because of all the young families down there.  Kids want a frozen treat on way home from school or sports, and parents are just old enough to remember when TCBY was a BFD.  So everybody in the car is happy.  I walk past that thing probably twice a week and the only people I see in line are 70+year olds, and maybe 4 people total.  And I think, "Of course they'd make this woefully inconvenient drive to a congested campus from Pflugerville for something they can get anywhere else in Texas."  

That's our "local" TCBY on Slaughter and there are always people there.

 

As for TCBY being a front, do they sell egg rolls and Indian bread?

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ztejas

ztejas 42802

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1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

This would suck.  My 3rd birthday was there and my daughter had her 4th birthday there.

 

Yeah we're all lamenting it in the other Austin thread. 

I was honestly pretty bummed when that McDonald's got demo'd. Talk about a McDonald's location that was an institution. 

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YGIFS

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Whuh?  My sarcasm meter must be broken.  Yeah it was slightly fun when you were high/drunk leaving the pitch 'n putt or Peter Pan but that McDonalds' last 15 years were spent as a decrepit shithole of vagrants, vomit, and needles.  If it ever had a heyday, it died with Leslie a long time ago.  

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utee94

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Yeah I had my 5th birthday there and attended countless others, and now both of my kids have had birthdays there as well.  I'll be sad to see it go.

But I'm honestly pretty surprised they've held out this long.

And I don't recall even once eating at that McDonald's.  

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utee94

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33 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I had my 5th birthday at Putt Putt on Burnet (now Yard Bar), so this hits close to home.

That was our neighborhood mini golf place, but for special occasions the parents would load us up for the long trek to bubba land.

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irishtexan

irishtexan 11414

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In some rare "we are NOT losing this place" good news: 

https://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/2023/08/hole-in-the-wall-dodges-closure-secures-20-year-lease-with-1-6m-from-city/

 

Hole in the Wall dodges closure, secures 20-year lease with $1.6M from city

TUESDAY, AUGUST 15, 2023 BY CHAD SWIATECKI

The Hole in the Wall music venue has secured a 20-year lease and will remain open to celebrate its 50th anniversary next summer, thanks largely to $1.6 million in assistance from the city’s Iconic Venue Fund.

Will Tanner, who purchased the club located on the stretch of Guadalupe Street known as The Drag in 2008, signed the new lease agreement – an initial 10-year lease with two five-year extensions – with The Weitzman Group realty firm on Monday. The signing followed 10 months of negotiation and work with staff from the city and the Austin Economic Development Corporation to become the first recipient of city funds allocated to preserve culturally significant music venues.

The University of Texas-area club, which features more than 1,000 live music performances per year, has operated on a month-to-month lease since its most recent yearlong lease expired in May.

Tanner said that without the city stepping in, the club would have likely closed this spring.

“It had a good long run, but it was probably done without this,” Tanner told the Austin Monitor.

He added, “I’m very grateful for the city of Austin to recognize that this is something that they feel like is important to stick around. … Hole in the Wall 100 percent got saved.”

The $1.6 million will help cover a portion of the club’s roughly $15,000 monthly rent over the length of its lease, and it will pay for improvements to the middle stage area and a rear building of nearly 3,000 square feet that will be made available for lease as a restaurant or other hospitality business.

The city hopes to close more deals stabilizing threatened music venues and creative spaces in the coming months, using its cultural trust economic development tool. That is funded by a combination of Hotel Occupancy Tax dollars for iconic venues and money from a 2018 bond package that included $12 million to open and preserve creative spaces. The bond package provided $2.4 million late last year to make improvements to the Millennium Youth Entertainment Complex and turn a 7,000-square-foot portion of the city’s Permitting and Development Center on Highland Mall Boulevard and Middle Fiskville Road into a work-and-display space for artists.

The Economic Development Corporation began taking applications for potential cultural trust projects in late 2021 and used that process to identify more than $300 million in needed assistance for venues and creative organizations. The 45 submitted proposals (including Tanner’s) were evaluated, and 14 priority projects were selected, with potential real estate deals ongoing using cultural trust dollars as part of the needed capital stack.

“The biggest point is that we’ve been able to help negotiate and secure an ability for Hole in the Wall to stay in place and thrive over the next 20 years,” Anne Gatling Haynes, chief transactions officer for the Economic Development Corporation, told the Monitor.

She added, “This is something we think is a demonstrable way of investing in those businesses that have an economic impact to the city and community benefit. We consider ourselves the Live Music Capital of the World, not just in brand but the fact is that we believe in our artists and musicians, and this is one place where a lot of those musicians have played.”

Even with city assistance, Haynes said, the deal was made possible by property owners with The Weitzman Group, who were willing to accept a rental rate that was “very low, considering everything else on The Drag right now.”

The mostly flat rental rate stands out in comparison to the most recent appraisal of the property by the Travis Central Appraisal District that valued the club space at just over $2 million, about a $700,000 increase from its 2022 appraisal.

Bryan McMurrey, managing director for the Transwestern real estate services company, said the handful of commercial space lease deals he’s closed on The Drag in recent years have brought between $50 and $65 per square foot per year for their owners. He said the Hole in the Wall space would likely fetch a similar figure, while praising the move to preserve it as a culturally important business.

“You could probably achieve an upper $50 to $60 (per square foot) triple net lease deal there. … Somebody could come in there and make that space really nice. It’s a great spot on The Drag,” he said.

“The club activates the district, creates foot traffic, and it’s kind of a point of interest for the people that live in the student housing back behind there to the west,” he said. “It’s somewhat of an Austin time capsule that kind of reminds us all of what it used to be back in the day when we went to school at UT.”

In an acknowledgment of the affordability issues that are pushing artists and musicians out of Austin, Tanner said the increasing rents in West Campus and other areas near the university have made the club less of a hot spot for students and the working class than in years past.

“There are less folks down there that are of age to drink, is the way to put it,” he said. “West Campus used to be more of a working-class neighborhood, and it still is really densely populated, but it’s densely populated with a lot of people that are pretty transient people.” When Tanner bought Hole in the Wall in 2008, he said, “there was a lot of mix of blue collar, musicians and service industry people that could walk there. That ship has sailed.”

With its future now certain, Tanner and his staff will work to complete the upgrades around the property in time for next year’s 50th anniversary celebration, with hopes of booking acts from all five decades of showcasing live music on its compact, iconic stage that’s highly visible for pedestrians on the other side of its display window.

“Stuff like this doesn’t happen at bars like Hole in the Wall,” Tanner said of the city’s financial and negotiating assistance. “We’re not like high-flying anything or fancy in any way. Definitely there’s a vibe there. The people that go there really love it, certain bands really love it, and I really love it.”

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DalTxHornFan

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6 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, that's astonishing.  I assume there are escalators on the rent, but jeez, a 20-year term?  I know nothing about commercial real estate, but that seems nuts for that dump in that location.

IDK how they decided on Hole in the Wall (probably a great choice), but they sure as heck need to be doing the same thing for Saxon Pub, Continental Club, Broken Spoke, Ginny's Little Longhorn, etc.

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DalTxHornFan

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8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I wonder if the White family owns the Broken Spoke property?  They're surrounded by new development.

Hadn't looked until now, but I'm guessing that place is OK:  https://texashighways.com/travel-news/austins-broken-spoke-dance-hall-finally-gets-its-texas-historical-marker/

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Judge Roybeanbag

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On 4/20/2023 at 5:57 PM, ftf82 said:

Greenwood Towers is on a ground lease (or was) that should be expiring sometime in the next few years. Had someone ask me to review the condo documents to buy a unit there a few years back.

This is close to me because I used to be a security guard there.   When I was really hungry, I hit up the Arby’s across the street.  

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YGIFS

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Not that's an authentic location, but it is an authentic brand.  Hyde Park Grill has closed its Westgate location.  Along with the theater and almost ever store not named Central Market or Cavender's is dead or dying in that strip center, along with its pad sites and much of the crap across the street to its South.  

I really like Hyde Park Grill.  Don't think I'd been there since before Covid, but that location was nice on the weekends to meet friends in South Austin or grab a beer and snack before shopping at Central Market.  That whole fucking stretch of retail from Lamar/Ben White to Brodie is just shit, it's all dying.  Fucking Red Robin, not that it's an Austin brand, finally pulled the plug after 3 years of overpaying their lease to run a to-go kitchen at $30/foot.  

They should just adopt the ghost kitchen/digital kitchen model or just get those multi-modal shipping containers, make the food from scratch in there using original recipes and food sourcing.  Then have grubhub/favor/uber eats/etc pick it up and bring it to you.  I love the food at so many Austin places but I don't enough of a shit to fight traffic and parking to overpay, just bring me the original dish that I crave, I've got drinks at home, and the money you save on real estate...pass it on to the driver.  Last mile for food.  

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ztejas

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2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Not that's an authentic location, but it is an authentic brand.  Hyde Park Grill has closed its Westgate location.  Along with the theater and almost ever store not named Central Market or Cavender's is dead or dying in that strip center, along with its pad sites and much of the crap across the street to its South.  

I really like Hyde Park Grill.  Don't think I'd been there since before Covid, but that location was nice on the weekends to meet friends in South Austin or grab a beer and snack before shopping at Central Market.  That whole fucking stretch of retail from Lamar/Ben White to Brodie is just shit, it's all dying.  Fucking Red Robin, not that it's an Austin brand, finally pulled the plug after 3 years of overpaying their lease to run a to-go kitchen at $30/foot.  

They should just adopt the ghost kitchen/digital kitchen model or just get those multi-modal shipping containers, make the food from scratch in there using original recipes and food sourcing.  Then have grubhub/favor/uber eats/etc pick it up and bring it to you.  I love the food at so many Austin places but I don't enough of a shit to fight traffic and parking to overpay, just bring me the original dish that I crave, I've got drinks at home, and the money you save on real estate...pass it on to the driver.  Last mile for food.  

Damn. Hyde Park was a solid spot. 

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YGIFS

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Yeah, it was.  No personality to that pad site but easy for me to get to, and for friends in the area.  But it nailed the menu every single time as well as the original.  I didn't do my part to help them out post-Covid, but I was a regular there for many, many years before that.  If you game out the map, that's actually becoming something of a restaurant desert.  Buncha shit chains in Sunset Valley, half of which are closing.  Deckhands to the north is good.  Curve around Ben White from Westgate Hyde Park and there's nothing but Dan's and nothing in the sit-down category.  The Park is a good sports bar but food blows.  Pinthouse Pizza is excellent but its days are numbered.  Nothing to you get way up 360.  Gotta get farther down William Cannon to get to more decent spots.  But look at that radius from Westgate Plaza and the population density.  And there's some disposable income in that area unlike 10-15 years ago when it all first broke out.  There's not much good to sit down and enjoy there anymore.  And you gotta head sufficiently up Lamar through shit traffic until you get to more good joints.  Kinda weird now I think about it.  

 

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MAUFRAIS

MAUFRAIS 6561

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Richard Jones Pit Barbecue used to be a thing.  Fifth Street, South Congress, Burnet Road, Georgetown, Cameron Road -- I'm sure that I am missing some locations.

Interesting. I’ve heard that Daniel Okrent, who invented fantasy baseball at le rotisserie restaurant in New York and gave his creation that name, had previously pitched it to some writers he met at the pit who weren’t interested, otherwise it might have been know as pit league baseball.

Always assumed that meant the one there by knife sharpist, but I guess it could’ve been any of these and that 5th or congress is more likely.

Love old shit that I didn’t know about so thanks for the lesson.
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ztejas

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7 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah, it was.  No personality to that pad site but easy for me to get to, and for friends in the area.  But it nailed the menu every single time as well as the original.  I didn't do my part to help them out post-Covid, but I was a regular there for many, many years before that.  If you game out the map, that's actually becoming something of a restaurant desert.  Buncha shit chains in Sunset Valley, half of which are closing.  Deckhands to the north is good.  Curve around Ben White from Westgate Hyde Park and there's nothing but Dan's and nothing in the sit-down category.  The Park is a good sports bar but food blows.  Pinthouse Pizza is excellent but its days are numbered.  Nothing to you get way up 360.  Gotta get farther down William Cannon to get to more decent spots.  But look at that radius from Westgate Plaza and the population density.  And there's some disposable income in that area unlike 10-15 years ago when it all first broke out.  There's not much good to sit down and enjoy there anymore.  And you gotta head sufficiently up Lamar through shit traffic until you get to more good joints.  Kinda weird now I think about it.  

 

Dong Nai is one of the best Asian restaurants in Austin. 

And Hunan Lion isn't bad. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45192

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I dated a law student from Austin who worked at the Pit on 5th.  We'd grab beers after her shift in that dumpy bar connected to the south -- can't remember the name.  It was a go-to spot for pols and academics who didn't want to be found on their affairs or day drunks.  Those were good times.

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