Elite private schools and college admissions

[Bateshorn 9942]

2 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

getting in is the hardest part of an ivy league school ?  well maybe paying for it, is #1

Actually, most of the Ivies, other than maybe Brown offer free tuition to families that make less than 150K

 

The joke I always make is nothing will dissuade you of the value of an Ivy League education like working with somebody with an Ivy League education.  Having said that, I’d rather have one that not have one.

[tx 3 putt 77535]

2 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Actually, most of the Ivies, other than maybe Brown offer free tuition to families that make less than 150K

 

The joke I always make is nothing will dissuade you of the value of an Ivy League education like working with somebody with an Ivy League education.  Having said that, I’d rather have one that not have one.

[DaysOff 7976]

There's 24,000 high schools in this country. That's 24,000 valedictorians being pumped out every year, and some of them are going to get rejected by Stanford and the Ivies.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4804]

49 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The joke I always make is nothing will dissuade you of the value of an Ivy League education like working with somebody with an Ivy League education.  

This is definitely true. I remember being a little intimidated when I first started at my firm because I was 1 of maybe 4 or 5 in our class of ~65 that didn't go to one of the top 10 law schools (at the time I think it was Ivy schools + Stanford, Chicago, NYU, Duke, etc.). Then you start working and quickly realize that they have a pretty normal distribution of bozos and actual high achievers.

56 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Having said that, I’d rather have one that not have one.

But unfortunately this is also definitely true, at least in NYC and (I assume) DC. They may not be smarter or better educated, but the connections and removal of barriers to entry would absolutely be worth it. I have to believe that wouldn't really be a big deal in other markets like Texas where a UT degree carries serious cachet. 

[dcbc 14525]

This happens every so often at the well known private schools.  I don't think it's the beginning of a trend.

[Neonmoon 38130]

This literally happens every year at [insert name] private school. Some kids don’t get accepted to Ivy schools and parents freak out. This happened when I graduated 25 years ago. 
 

As someone else said, there are a limited number of Ivy School spots and an ever increasing population. 

[Brew 3049]

The name on the diploma is over valued in most discussions. Outside of the NE and west coast and a few major population centers in between, it doesn’t much matter where you go to college. The college my degree is from doesn’t even exist any more and no one would have heard of it anyways, it went bankrupt about 10 years ago. I needed the 150 hours required to get my license, so i did it as cheaply as possible.

My oldest is starting this process now. She has been dead set on going to UNC for as long as she has talked about college and is finally just now starting to think about backup plans. It’s going to be rough on her if she doesn’t make it, but the acceptance rate for out of state females there is extremely low. We’ll see how it goes, but it’s probably time for her to work in some Plan B’s. I’m hoping for free state school for the 2nd kid assuming TikTok fame doesn’t work out for her.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Brew

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

My wife went to Ursuline and she's borderline retarded.

I went to a D/FW private where 15-25% (one year a class had something approaching 40%, that was insane) of each graduating class is national merit semi-finalists. One year Duke accepted like half the class and not a single student chose to go to Duke. 

Duke did not accept another graduate from our school for well over a decade.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

wow just looked at where the class of 2020 ended up. all the usual suspects but a TON of big public state schools. outside of texas and a few a&m, there was virtually no enrollment in big state schools. i wonder why the shift? 

lol lists duke on the acceptance list but none attended.

Edited April 3, 2022 by DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

[Serak The Preparer 3434]

7 minutes ago, Brew said:

The name on the diploma is over valued in most discussions. Outside of the NE and west coast and a few major population centers in between, it doesn’t much matter where you go to college. The college my degree is from doesn’t even exist any more and no one would have heard of it anyways, it went bankrupt about 10 years ago. I needed the 150 hours required to get my license, so i did it as cheaply as possible.

Oh, so only where 2/3 of the jobs are.

[Bateshorn 9942]

8 minutes ago, Brew said:

 

My oldest is starting this process now. She has been dead set on going to UNC for as long as she has talked about college and is finally just now starting to think about backup plans. It’s going to be rough on her if she doesn’t make it, but the acceptance rate for out of state females there is extremely low. We’ll see how it goes, but it’s probably time for her to work in some Plan B’s. I’m hoping for free state school for the 2nd kid assuming TikTok fame doesn’t work out for her.

I would strongly recommend setting up a 5 tier approach to applying: 

-Deep Safety: an instate 2/4 year school guaranteed to admit so you have a cheap option if their is a family emegency. 

-Safety: Instate where you will likely get in/out of state where you will get in and get money. But better academically/better fit than deep safety. You should be getting financial aid from this school.

-Match: Schools where you seem to be a good fit, but not a slam dunk. Somewhere where you really want to go/and academically match. 50-60% chance you get in. Maybe some merit aid might be involved.

-Reach: you’ve got a 35% or less chance of getting in. 

-Lottery: If you want to give 75 dollars to Harvard to read your app, go wild.

Do NOT let your child put all his/her eggs in one basket. 

 

[Brew 3049]

10 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Oh, so only where 2/3 of the jobs are.

Not even close, although I should have been more specific to big law, Finance, tech, and a few other high end specialties in those markets I suppose. For some high percentage of people that I’m not going to put a number to, it doesn’t matter where you go.

[Brew 3049]

6 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I would strongly recommend setting up a 5 tier approach to applying: 

-Deep Safety: an instate 2/4 year school guaranteed to admit so you have a cheap option if their is a family emegency. 

-Safety: Instate where you will likely get in/out of state where you will get in and get money. But better academically/better fit than deep safety. You should be getting financial aid from this school.

-Match: Schools where you seem to be a good fit, but not a slam dunk. Somewhere where you really want to go/and academically match. 50-60% chance you get in. Maybe some merit aid might be involved.

-Reach: you’ve got a 35% or less chance of getting in. 

-Lottery: If you want to give 75 dollars to Harvard to read your app, go wild.

Do NOT let your child put all his/her eggs in one basket. 

 

Good advice. We’re working bottom up on your list. She has her lottery and reaches (Northwestern, UNC, and a couple of others) pretty well laid out and is working on the gimmes. She’ll graduate top 5% in her class with a mid 30’s ACT (at the moment) and plenty of the check the box stuff. She’s going to have to shoot for academic scholarships wherever it is, I’m probably writing checks if not.

[Serak The Preparer 3434]

Ok, not trying to be a jerk, but if you take west coast, north east, and big population centers in-between, what are the big hubs for tech, finance, etc.? I'm not saying there aren't any but certainly less than half of the total jobs right? Probably less than 1/3?

Edit: I'll be a bit more specific - give me Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston - just those 4 MSAs. You think that, plus the aforementioned west coast + NE isn't the bulk of big law, finance, or tech? 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Serak The Preparer

[Brew 3049]

14 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Ok, not trying to be a jerk, but if you take west coast, north east, and big population centers in-between, what are the big hubs for tech, finance, etc.? I'm not saying there aren't any but certainly less than half of the total jobs right? Probably less than 1/3?

Edit: I'll be a bit more specific - give me Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston - just those 4 MSAs. You think that, plus the aforementioned west coast + NE isn't the bulk of big law, finance, or tech? 

For clarity purposes:

The name on the diploma is over valued in most discussions. Outside of a few specific industries in the largest NE and west coast markets and a few major population centers in between, it doesn’t much matter where you go to college.

If you disagree with that at this point, I don’t much care.

[Serak The Preparer 3434]

Fair enough. I do agree with the general sentiment that name on diploma is overvalued but also think it is a little facile to just handwave away where the majority of professional jobs are. Agree to disagree on that point.

 

[tx 3 putt 77535]

what does she want to major in ?

[Brew 3049]

38 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Fair enough. I do agree with the general sentiment that name on diploma is overvalued but also think it is a little facile to just handwave away where the majority of professional jobs are. Agree to disagree on that point.

 

Even if I agreed with the majority of professional jobs being located inside of those areas, I don’t agree with the majority of those jobs requiring a high end degree. It’s a subset of that population working at specific firms. I’m not going to look it up, but the number of graduates from those high end institutions is a fraction of the overall graduates out there.

We’re off in the weeds at this point. Shoot high, if you get there you’ll have a few more doors open for you. If you end up at Podunk U, your path may look different but finding success can still be had.

[Brew 3049]

37 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

what does she want to major in ?

Psychology, she wants to go to law school to practice in some area of child welfare, so she needs to go where I don’t have to pay.

[52-80 19264]

Nobody has asked about my diploma for over a decade. 
 

In fact, i don think McDonalds still have it on file anymore. 

[Sbbruin 21898]

My son is a senior and this year has been wild, and hugely disappointing, regarding college admissions.  Incredibly bright kids, him included, are getting rejected left and right from schools all across the country.  He is at Flintridge Prep, which is a top 20 national school depending on rankings, has never gotten a single B, is an Eagle Scout, and he was rejected from every UC he applied to (UCLA, Cal, and waitlisted at San Diego), denied at Texas, Rice, Duke, Stanford, waitlisted at Michigan, and only accepted to Northeastern, Washington, RPI, and Maryland.  The last 2 he did get significant merit based scholarships to, but this is a really brilliant kid.  Now he did apply to the engineering departments of these schools, which is apparently really restrictive, but still .  Every school is reporting record applications.  The college advisory department at his school, which is really robust and dialed into admissions departments all over the country, has never seen anything like it.  Lots of speculation that a lot of kids took gap years due to Covid and overloaded the system this year, that the common app has led to kids applying to WAY more schools than in years past (one of his closest friends applied to 27 schools), and of course the test optional/test blind element, which takes one of the major advantages of these private school educated kids off the table.

He is a kid I’m convinced that will be successful no matter where he goes, but he is really discouraged.  End rant.

[52-80 19264]

3 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

.  He is at Flintridge Prep, which is a top 20 national school depending on rankings, has never gotten a single B, is an Eagle Scout, and he was rejected from every UC he applied to (UCLA, Cal, and waitlisted at San Diego),

Idea for profitable private school: start issuing grades on a 6-point scale

[DigglerontheHoof 21255]

Rich kids being forced to settle on their 3rd or 4th college choice?  I hope they somehow endeavor to persevere 

[htown85 159]

Preschool admissions have been pretty wild this year, too.

Edited April 3, 2022 by htown85

[CleverNickname 1321]

38 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Lots of speculation that a lot of kids took gap years due to Covid and overloaded the system this year

I heard this elsewhere. There is probably a grain of truth to it. I bet there is some panic that is then driving the tons of apps, too.

[futureman 22553]

hey, I went to Tufts! it was my safety school. so don’t talk to me about hardship. 

[pearlandhorn 3274]

I know that there’s no way I’d be accepted into McCombs if I was a graduating senior this year. Acceptance landscape has changed so much over the past decade.

The tuition prices on out of state universities is astronomically high and private schools for business are a complete waste of money in my opinion (especially accounting). Once you have a certification like a CPA, no one gives a fuck where you did your undergrad. I made the same amount as a first year in big 4 as someone who graduated from Baylor or TCU. They paid 4x as much. The ROI is higher for a business degree from a state school than a private or out of state school. But hey, y’all are talking about STEM, not business.

[Bateshorn 9942]

1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

My son is a senior and this year has been wild, and hugely disappointing, regarding college admissions.  Incredibly bright kids, him included, are getting rejected left and right from schools all across the country.  He is at Flintridge Prep, which is a top 20 national school depending on rankings, has never gotten a single B, is an Eagle Scout, and he was rejected from every UC he applied to (UCLA, Cal, and waitlisted at San Diego), denied at Texas, Rice, Duke, Stanford, waitlisted at Michigan, and only accepted to Northeastern, Washington, RPI, and Maryland.  The last 2 he did get significant merit based scholarships to, but this is a really brilliant kid.  Now he did apply to the engineering departments of these schools, which is apparently really restrictive, but still .  Every school is reporting record applications.  The college advisory department at his school, which is really robust and dialed into admissions departments all over the country, has never seen anything like it.  Lots of speculation that a lot of kids took gap years due to Covid and overloaded the system this year, that the common app has led to kids applying to WAY more schools than in years past (one of his closest friends applied to 27 schools), and of course the test optional/test blind element, which takes one of the major advantages of these private school educated kids off the table.

He is a kid I’m convinced that will be successful no matter where he goes, but he is really discouraged.  End rant.

The joke in similar socio economic circles here is nobody gets into UCLA.  We think it doesn’t actually exist and they hire actors for the games. 

If I could give more advice: apply early admissions If you can. It just gives you more time in the spring to sort things out as the accept/deny letters come in. If your child has their heart set on a private, outside the Ivies, apply early decision. Lots of privates like to fill their classes early. Chicago, Tulane, and Davison almost exclusively admit from their ED pool.

[Brew 3049]

15 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

If I could give more advice: apply early admissions If you can. It just gives you more time in the spring to sort things out as the accept/deny letters come in. If your child has their heart set on a private, outside the Ivies, apply early decision. Lots of privates like to fill their classes early. Chicago, Tulane, and Davison almost exclusively admit from their ED pool.

This whole process has become overly convoluted and the number of schools a lot of these kids appear to be applying to makes it even worse I suppose. If they have the test scores, it makes sense to apply early to the top tier schools you are looking at and get it out of the way. If you get in you’re set, if not you have plenty of time to get the next round out. It looks like the top schools are limiting applicants to only apply to the one school early though, so that may start tightening up too.

[Incredulity 11683]

2 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

My son is a senior and this year has been wild, and hugely disappointing, regarding college admissions.  Incredibly bright kids, him included, are getting rejected left and right from schools all across the country.  He is at Flintridge Prep, which is a top 20 national school depending on rankings, has never gotten a single B, is an Eagle Scout, and he was rejected from every UC he applied to (UCLA, Cal, and waitlisted at San Diego), denied at Texas, Rice, Duke, Stanford, waitlisted at Michigan, and only accepted to Northeastern, Washington, RPI, and Maryland.  The last 2 he did get significant merit based scholarships to, but this is a really brilliant kid.  Now he did apply to the engineering departments of these schools, which is apparently really restrictive, but still .  Every school is reporting record applications.  The college advisory department at his school, which is really robust and dialed into admissions departments all over the country, has never seen anything like it.  Lots of speculation that a lot of kids took gap years due to Covid and overloaded the system this year, that the common app has led to kids applying to WAY more schools than in years past (one of his closest friends applied to 27 schools), and of course the test optional/test blind element, which takes one of the major advantages of these private school educated kids off the table.

He is a kid I’m convinced that will be successful no matter where he goes, but he is really discouraged.  End rant.

FWIW 

It might be a great idea to take a year after high school and get a job.  There have to be some great opportunities given the current state of the labor market.

It would have benefited me greatly to have some real world application/context of the things I was memorizing and regurgitating.  
 

I have no idea how the year off dynamic plays into subsequent admission; good, bad or indifferent.

 

[Bateshorn 9942]

21 minutes ago, Brew said:

This whole process has become overly convoluted and the number of schools a lot of these kids appear to be applying to makes it even worse I suppose. If they have the test scores, it makes sense to apply early to the top tier schools you are looking at and get it out of the way. If you get in you’re set, if not you have plenty of time to get the next round out. It looks like the top schools are limiting applicants to only apply to the one school early though, so that may start tightening up too.

Early Decision is traditionally “binding”. Early Admission is not. But the rub is: ED and EA are often the same date, so you can apply ED to say Duke, and EA to your other top choices.  Also, lots of schools have an ED2 deadline, which allows you to flip your application from EA to ED when your ED1 denies.  Tulane picks up a lot of Ivy rejects this way.

I dont think ED helps much with the Ivies, it just allows them to crush your child’s dream sooner and then you can move on to where they are actually going to college.  It does help with all the Baby Ivies, other than Williams, and most the other elite liberal arts schools.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Bateshorn

[Helobious 9467]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

FWIW 

It might be a great idea to take a year after high school and get a job.  There have to be some great opportunities given the current state of the labor market.

It would have benefited me greatly to have some real world application/context of the things I was memorizing and regurgitating.  
 

I have no idea how the year off dynamic plays into subsequent admission; good, bad or indifferent.

 

I don’t know. If you know you want to be an engineer, I’d want to get in school ASAP, graduate ASAP, and start making real money ASAP. 

[boilerhorn 1399]

This is a great thread.  I'll follow with a stream of consciousness about my experiences and the experiences of my kids.

The multi-tiered approach recommended by @Bateshorn is correct.  All of my older kids did that and it worked out very well.  Older son did CS at UT and did not get accepted to Northwestern or Carnegie Mellon.  Not sure I would have paid for the others, esp. w/ a UT CS acceptance. 

Youngest son is a junior and will start the college admissions process next year.  He goes to Regents and the fields are for football @Lobo and should should not be mistaken for lacrosse fields even though they are used for lacrosse . Older kids went to a top public school in Austin, but Regents was a better fit for him.  Small class sizes, more individual instruction, far more open roundtable debates, etc.  Is it perfect?  No, but it is a good fit for him.  I had zero expectations that it would look better on a college app than LASA, Westlake, Westwood, etc.  

If you want to be an engineer or computer scientist, get through school ASAP and start earning money.  Many larger companies put a premium on an advanced degree (for some reason), but many of the smaller and more nimble ones do not.  Most folks learn more in their first year out of college than they would learn in 2 years working toward a masters.  Opportunity cost is high today.

I am in tech and participate in a considerable amount of the hiring.  The name schools still carry a decent amount of weight, as the strong peer groups at those colleges usually result in strong candidates.  I've hired mostly out of UT Austin.  First, it's local.  Second, I know that a CS or ECE grad w/ a 3.5+ will succeed.  I know her courses, I know the faculty, etc.  The same applies for folks from a handful of other schools.

The primary advantage of a Stanford, Duke, Harvard, (and dare I say Texas A&M) etc. is the strong alumni network.  @CooterBrown dismissed it a bit, but there is a distinct difference for Texas A&M - and some others.  Texas A&M grads almost blindly prefer other Texas A&M grads.  A Texas A&M Civil Engineer friend notes that it is because he knows they are prepared for what he needs them to do (similar to what I noted in the previous paragraph).  It seems to be a bit "blinder" than what I see from Texas grads.

The college application process has gotten wild in the past 10-15 years.  Rather than applying to 2-3 colleges, strong students are applying to 20.  Rather than taking the SAT 1 time (like I did), kids are taking it 7-8 times.  The top schools are getting 20 applications per spot and most would be just fine if they were admitted.  I wonder if the admissions teams could not save a lot of time by just take the "Random Walk" approach: discard the obvious mismatches and just throw darts.  

[Brisketexan 105439]

I would strongly recommend setting up a 5 tier approach to applying: 
-Deep Safety: an instate 2/4 year school guaranteed to admit so you have a cheap option if their is a family emegency. 
-Safety: Instate where you will likely get in/out of state where you will get in and get money. But better academically/better fit than deep safety. You should be getting financial aid from this school.
-Match: Schools where you seem to be a good fit, but not a slam dunk. Somewhere where you really want to go/and academically match. 50-60% chance you get in. Maybe some merit aid might be involved.
-Reach: you’ve got a 35% or less chance of getting in. 
-Lottery: If you want to give 75 dollars to Harvard to read your app, go wild.
Do NOT let your child put all his/her eggs in one basket. 
 

My son is a senior and this year has been wild, and hugely disappointing, regarding college admissions.  Incredibly bright kids, him included, are getting rejected left and right from schools all across the country.  He is at Flintridge Prep, which is a top 20 national school depending on rankings, has never gotten a single B, is an Eagle Scout, and he was rejected from every UC he applied to (UCLA, Cal, and waitlisted at San Diego), denied at Texas, Rice, Duke, Stanford, waitlisted at Michigan, and only accepted to Northeastern, Washington, RPI, and Maryland.  The last 2 he did get significant merit based scholarships to, but this is a really brilliant kid.  Now he did apply to the engineering departments of these schools, which is apparently really restrictive, but still .  Every school is reporting record applications.  The college advisory department at his school, which is really robust and dialed into admissions departments all over the country, has never seen anything like it.  Lots of speculation that a lot of kids took gap years due to Covid and overloaded the system this year, that the common app has led to kids applying to WAY more schools than in years past (one of his closest friends applied to 27 schools), and of course the test optional/test blind element, which takes one of the major advantages of these private school educated kids off the table.
He is a kid I’m convinced that will be successful no matter where he goes, but he is really discouraged.  End rant.

Some interesting stuff in here as we are in this process with the boy right now. Sister was an academic star, LASA grad. Still got rejected by some elites (Georgetown, Michigan), got into her out of state safety with a nice schollie offer (UMass), got into two foreign “elites” (Edinburgh and McGill, her first choice).

The boy had a rocky high school experience; Anderson was a lousy fit, transferred to a small, young private school, promptly got long mono which crashed his grades, he’d just recovered (both his grades and health) when COVID hit. He knew he wasn’t ready for college, so did a gap year which is winding down. Great for him, great experience. His grades are good, but not top percent. His SAT is strong. And his essays are really good - he has a compelling story to tell and a great perspective on his chosen field of study (international relations).
But now, waiting on college decisions, and it’s a lot like the two posts above - super competitive market, at least domestically.
He applied to a safety - out of state public that admitted and offered good money (George Mason). One private “match” that offered him some money, but not a lot (U of Denver). Just accepted by an overseas match, U of Glasgow.
Rejected by a reach, and a lottery (GW and Utrecht (Netherlands)). Wait listed by a reach and a match (American and Fordham).
Waiting on a couple of reaches (U of British Columbia and Edinburgh), a match that he’s not really high on (Queen Mary in London), and a lottery (Amsterdam).
He applied to a lot of schools, and did it all on his own without us looking over his shoulder (as he’s living overseas now). We paid the admission fees, and helped him edit his essays, but that’s it. And it’s been a challenging process, and the rejections and waitlisting have hit him hard. But it seems to match up with what others are experiencing.
Oh, and as for costs…the foreign schools are the winners, far and away.
George Mason, with scholarships, would be $30k all in. That’s the only domestic bargain to be had. Denver would be twice that.
UBC is $45k, the UK schools are about $40k, and Amsterdam would be under $30k.
The process seems a lot harder with him compared to his sister, which was only three years ago.
And yeah, odds are that both of our kids will go to a foreign university for undergrad. That’s probably an interesting topic all it’s own.
The American university system is kind of a mess right now, and I think it’s in the middle of sorting itself out, which is a messy process on top of that.

[Not a cat 5715]

3 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

The joke in similar socio economic circles here is nobody gets into UCLA.  We think it doesn’t actually exist and they hire actors for the games. 

 

This.  Without doing the humblebrag list of credentials, my academically oriented daughter (non Calif resident, no pics) applied to UCLA, Berkeley, Davis, SD and SB.  Got waitlisted at the first 2.  She ended up at UCSB and when she was last home she said that it is the best thing that ever happened to her. We were laughing saying what the hell did those schools want you to do, cure cancer?  

As I told her, it's not like you were choosing between Tech and UT.  I think the closest analogy in Texas would be choosing between Rice and UT, except UT is on a damn beach with perfect weather.

[Hefeweizen 5334]

Good reads.  My sisters son has a 1580 on the SAT, top 5 percent in his class in the Denver area, and decent swim team results.  Denied at Duke, Amherst, Williams, and Dartmouth.  He got a full ride to CU Boulder and is going to BC which is a good school, but expensive.

 

 The thing he didn’t do was “demonstrated interest” which means attending the webinars and visiting the school.  My sister is convinced that and possibly his lack of “social commitment” hindered him, but it goes to show it’s a bit of a lottery.

[pronghorn 44]

On 4/2/2022 at 11:27 AM, Bateshorn said:

This is 100% not true depending on your career path. In Finance or Elite Law, where you go to school makes a HUGE difference in your graduate school options. Try getting in Wharton with a degree from Texas State vs UT or Rice.

1234.

 

My wife went to one of these schools (e.g. Harvard, Yale, Princeton) and even 15+ years out the number of doors that are open because of that branding and connections annoys me.

[Neonmoon 38130]

1 hour ago, boilerhorn said:

The primary advantage of a Stanford, Duke, Harvard, (and dare I say Texas A&M) etc. is the strong alumni network.  @CooterBrown dismissed it a bit, but there is a distinct difference for Texas A&M - and some others.  Texas A&M grads almost blindly prefer other Texas A&M grads.  A Texas A&M Civil Engineer friend notes that it is because he knows they are prepared for what he needs them to do (similar to what I noted in the previous paragraph).  It seems to be a bit "blinder" than what I see from Texas grads.

Because it’s a cult. It has nothing to do with the “oh, I know they will be prepared for this job” mantra. At my previous employer, there was a large Aggy engineering group because the head guy was an Aggy and he would only hire other Aggys. It was our worst performing asset by a long shot. Blindly hiring from only one school means compromising on best candidates. Other groups had a standard mix from all over and performed well. 

[Skipper 6207]

20 hours ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

This is definitely true. I remember being a little intimidated when I first started at my firm because I was 1 of maybe 4 or 5 in our class of ~65 that didn't go to one of the top 10 law schools (at the time I think it was Ivy schools + Stanford, Chicago, NYU, Duke, etc.). Then you start working and quickly realize that they have a pretty normal distribution of bozos and actual high achievers.

This 100%.  Our absolute worst hires (Biglaw) have been Ivy League.  Absolutely absysmal hit rate.  It's uncanny.  And they are typically not only shitty lawyers but arrogant and lazy.  Give me an SMU/Baylor/UH grinder all day over a Stanford/Harvard intellectual and I'm dead serious.  

 

[Brisketexan 105439]

This 100%.  Our absolute worst hires (Biglaw) have been Ivy League.  Absolutely absysmal hit rate.  It's uncanny.  And they are typically not only shitty lawyers but arrogant and lazy.  Give me an SMU/Baylor/UH grinder all day over a Stanford/Harvard intellectual and I'm dead serious.  
 

I was hired by a Biglaw firm out of law school. As was an old friend’s wife, at my same firm (different office). I went to Texas. She went to Yale….which she worked into every conversation. It took all the restraint I could muster not to say “bitch….we have literally the exact same job for the exact same pay…and I’m better at it.”
Within a couple of years of graduation, I couldn’t give half a fuck where you went to law school. Show me what you’ve got. Plenty of Ivy grads coasting on the name on the diploma. And plenty of Tech and UH grads who’ve got snap and skills.

[tx 3 putt 77535]

10 minutes ago, Skipper said:

This 100%.  Our absolute worst hires (Biglaw) have been Ivy League.  Absolutely absysmal hit rate.  It's uncanny.  And they are typically not only shitty lawyers but arrogant and lazy.  Give me an SMU/Baylor/UH grinder all day over a Stanford/Harvard intellectual and I'm dead serious.  

 

Engineering, you 1000% want the grinders 

I want the kids that played golf on Fridays, bbq’d / drank beer / played cards all night. I want the kids that grouped up and interacted with the other groups 

[Not a cat 5715]

All this talk scares the hell out of me for my youngest who's a junior in HS.  Smart enough kid but he'd honestly rather play sports, hang with his boys and chase tail.

Reminds me a lot of a kid I used to know except he doesn't have the advantage of graduating high school in Texas in the 1980s from a semi-rural public school where a grasp of basic literacy put you in the top 10%.

[Skipper 6207]

4 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Engineering, you 1000% want the grinders 

I want the kids that played golf on Fridays, bbq’d / drank beer / played cards all night. I want the kids that grouped up and interacted with the other groups 

Oh I agree for sure. I should have clarified. The kids that do all of this then grind their ass off Mon-Friday afternoon + a few hours while hungover on the weekends.  The kids that missed more than half of their classes in law school when it didn't matter then locked themselves in the library 3 weeks before finals and aced their tests.  And that type is pretty easy to spot in an interview or particularly a happy hour/interview.

[Sbbruin 21898]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

The American university system is kind of a mess right now, and I think it’s in the middle of sorting itself out, which is a messy process on top of that.

 

 

Yes, it is.  I’m not sure if it’s the pandemic, testing changes, or some other factor, but I think the admissions departments are totally unable to manage enrollment.  It’ll be interesting to see if waitlists are more of a possibility as a result, or if it is just a rejection in waiting.  The bummer is he was always prepared to go out of state, but now he may have no choice but to go out of state.

[TonyTexas 10534]

3 hours ago, boilerhorn said:

Texas A&M grads almost blindly prefer other Texas A&M grads. 

On the flip side, there is an even larger pool of employers who will almost blindly avoid aggy grads. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by TonyTexas

[CooterBrown 18032]

All this talk scares the hell out of me for my youngest who's a junior in HS.  Smart enough kid but he'd honestly rather play sports, hang with his boys and chase tail.
Reminds me a lot of a kid I used to know except he doesn't have the advantage of graduating high school in Texas in the 1980s from a semi-rural public school where a grasp of basic literacy put you in the top 10%.

Honestly, don’t worry about it. Where he goes to school matters waaayyy less than his chosen field and work ethic. A huge component no one mentioned is not being a dick. After a few years of work experience, it’s all about those relationship skills and less about anything else. I know I’ve always leaned towards promoting employees that won’t drive me fucking nuts if I have to work closely with the position.

[Brew 3049]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Oh I agree for sure. I should have clarified. The kids that do all of this then grind their ass off Mon-Friday afternoon + a few hours while hungover on the weekends.  The kids that missed more than half of their classes in law school when it didn't matter then locked themselves in the library 3 weeks before finals and aced their tests.  And that type is pretty easy to spot in an interview or particularly a happy hour/interview.

I’m not even looking for the ones that aced their tests, I’m looking for the ones that had a life, hopefully made decent grades, and can sit down and talk to you in an interview. We’re not Big 4 (they can have all the 4.0’s) but we’re right on the cusp of Top 100 firm size. I left my first school with a 1.7 GPA after my first year, got married and finished out the next 2.5 years strong to get me back up in the low 3’s.

[Brisketexan 105439]

Oh I agree for sure. I should have clarified. The kids that do all of this then grind their ass off Mon-Friday afternoon + a few hours while hungover on the weekends.  The kids that missed more than half of their classes in law school when it didn't matter then locked themselves in the library 3 weeks before finals and aced their tests.  And that type is pretty easy to spot in an interview or particularly a happy hour/interview.

It’s like you know me.
I focused on fishing and beer at the Posse, and cramming for finals. I did just fine. And I’m capable of interacting with people, which helps in the courtroom.

[Sbbruin 21898]

10 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Honestly, don’t worry about it. Where he goes to school matters waaayyy less than his chosen field and work ethic. A huge component no one mentioned is not being a dick. After a few years of work experience, it’s all about those relationship skills and less about anything else. I know I’ve always leaned towards promoting employees that won’t drive me fucking nuts if I have to work closely with the position.

I agree with this.  And in researching some of the schools he has gotten into, their co-op and placement programs are great.  Northeastern has one of the best coop programs out there, with something like 70% of kids getting job offers from the companies they coop with.  And at the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about.  Getting them gainfully employed in a field they want to pursue.  I was a clueless dumbfuck coming out of college and it took me a good 5-6 years to get rooted in my career path.

[Deej 76946]

25 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I did just fine. And I’m capable of interacting with people

Tom?