Elite private schools and college admissions

[Tailgate 3021]

[Guest Lobo]

2.7 GPA and Italian.  Yep, checks out.  Honestly, I'm surprised it was that high.  Good on him.  

[Bateshorn 9927]

31 minutes ago, Tailgate said:

Edited April 8, 2022 by Bateshorn

[tx 3 putt 76870]

i also had a 2.7 gpa !!!

my degree still said 'engineer' !!!

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

An analogous situation is Jersey Students.  Because New Jersey only has Rutgers (Princeton is basically impossibe to get into), the East Coast is swimming in kids from NJ.  Both Public and Private.

University of Richmond is really the university of N.J. south campus.  $45 or more tuition, a beautiful, gothic campus in the suburbs of Richmond, Va., and BMW's as far as the eye can see.

[ButtFumble 5164]

 

13 hours ago, LCHorn said:

I think what we’re fencing around is that Texas badly needs more universities.  

that is the last thing that Texas needs Texas has 35 pubic universities while California has 34 with a much larger population and of course more public schools with higher rankings.....and that is with "The California Plan For Higher Education" now holding back a lot of CSU System schools from being higher ranked or more respected because of the inability to conduct a high level of research or offer docotral and professional degrees except on a very limited basis

14 of the public universities in Texas have an enrollment under 10,000 and that is massively inefficient in terms of overhead and administrative cost

9 are still extremely inefficient with 16,000 or fewer students

we will leave out Texas having 6 university systems and 3 independent universities and the issues with that, but that needs to be addressed as well eventually

Texas waste massive amounts on money on "our area" bullshit with the north Texas state dallas campus being one example it was never needed, it is a failure, it sucks, it has had accreditation issues, a large % of the use of the campus is to rent to DCCCD and it has even failed to deliver on the real objective of the assholes that pushed for it and that was to get gas stations, restaurants, CStores, and maybe a grocery store or dollar store built in a shitty area of town with nothing

at least $200 million has been wasted on that McDegree factory and probably a lot more than that.....or the north Texas law school......it is also a pile of shit, had major accreditation issues, it sucks, it was built in the worst legal environment in history and their bar passage rate is shit which is why it took 7 fucking years to get full accreditation...probably $100 million was flushed down the toilet so far on it and dallas never came close to living up to their financial promises to help with the start up cost.....the goal of it was to get a shitty law school in dallas proper since Houston has 3 and Fort Worth has 1 and to steal state higher ed dollars to fix up the old rotting and steaming pile of shit dallas city hall

other fuck ups are UH Clear Lake being founded at the same time as UTD was starting....UTD working with TI and UHCL working with NASA

one is now a major university that is an economic engine and degree generator for the region with a rapidly growing enrollment and rapidly rising reputation (that is moving past the UH main campus) and the other just now offers some weak ass engineering programs and does not even offer anything aerospace related.....it is next to fucking NASA and was founded to train people for NASA and had/should have access to NASA level people to be faculty or adjuncts.....it only expanded downward to freshman and soph. about 8 or 10 years ago and the enrollment is less than 1/3 that of UTD

college station wanting to have 25,000 students just in the college of engineering.....while they shit on Kingsville and tried to take their natural gas engineering undergrad program away......when south Texas natural gas exploration and production was exploding

the failure to merge TAMU-K and TAMU-CC because not-so-sharp is a fucking fuck up idiot

6 of the 10 aggy campuses are under 10,000 students and 4 more are under 15,000.....but some fuck head wants a single college of a university to be 25,00 students....then he wanted to turn a former airport on the edge of a small town (college station) into yet another 4 year school because he thought people that lived in that area that could not get into aggy should still be able to be aggy.....in spite of Blinn in both CS and Brenham being provisional aggy

the UT Caps program was so successful at helping grow some of the UT System schools that they pulled out of the program because they do not want that potentially transient enrollment.....aggy has nothing similar other than blinn

the above list does not count all the shitty little system centers that some universities are littering the state with including building large buildings to house them instead of pairing with a high school to use classroom space or a community college if the area has one

Texas needs to do a much better job or supporting schools that have things in their area that make them unique.....like Texas State and aquatics....a good program that could be even better with better support.....a long past Texas State president happened to be a fan of Geography so he set the degree plans at Texas State (at the time) to run a lot of students through a class or two in geography......they have built a very respected program in that field now

SFA and Forestry, Lamar and engineering (massive petro complex in the area), Kingsville and wildlife and engineering and some areas of horticulture, TAMU-CC in coastal studies, Sul Ross Geology and Sul Ross should be able to work with UT to make use of the McDonald facilities and to build an astronomy/physics program (which of course goes with math and computing).....Tech and agriculture and engineering....SHSU and Criminal Justice

schools that have made use of things in their area and built respected programs in those fields or that made a plan to build an area of expertise....or some examples of what a school could make a name with if given the resources

from there you build enrollment and economies of scale and overall reputation

instead bullshit and waste gets in the way or the "flagship" of a (barely a) system gets in the way because they do not want some other campus getting a good reputation.....it is funny a lot of fans of other schools accuse UT Austin of shitting on system schools and that may have been true in the past, but it is far from it now....while the schools those people are a fan of shits on their system schools consistently.....like UH main campus stealing a nursing program from Victoria and then having to half ass rebuild it right back instead of building their own

or aggy putting a fucking campus in McAllen and having it a part of "college station" as if being there at a little glorified system center is the same as being at a bloated main campus that has an actual 4 year college and "college town" experience (no matter what you think of it) 

just fucking waste and assholes planting flags or assholes grabbing state dollars to produce custodial jobs and administrative jobs for voters at 4 year bastions of low enrollment and lower graduation rates offering degrees of not much value or demand

Edited April 8, 2022 by ButtFumble

[tx 3 putt 76870]

those enrollment numbers are old

[ButtFumble 5164]

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

those enrollment numbers are old

they are from 2020

[Bateshorn 9927]

9 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

University of Richmond is really the university of N.J. south campus.  $45 or more tuition, a beautiful, gothic campus in the suburbs of Richmond, Va., and BMW's as far as the eye can see.

Boy 1 looked at it, beautiful but a bit too fratty for him.  It’s got an interesting back story in that in the late 60s it was on the edge of bankruptcy when a prominent medical CEO, who was an Alumni, made a huge stock gift that was the largest constant dollar contribution ever.  The stock was the company that made the Daikon Shield. Richmond liquidated the stock right away, before the scandal broke, and the school now has an endowment over 3 billion for 4000 ish students.  Fortuitous timing.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Bateshorn

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Boy 1 looked at it, beautiful but a bit too fratty for him.  It’s got an interesting back story in that in the late 60s it was on the edge of bankruptcy when a prominent medical CEO, who was an Alumni, made a huge stock gift that was the largest constant dollar contribution ever.  The stock was the company that made the Daikon Shield. Richmond liquidated the stock right away, before the scandal broke, and the school now has an endowment over 3 billion for 4000 ish students.  Fortuitous timing.

Yep all true., AH Robbins family.  Robitussin is how they made their initial strike it rich dollars. Big frat school, good football program, spotty basketball thru the years, but definitely a typical private school student base: frats, daddies money, and BMW's.

Have a very good friend who came out as gay to his parents right after HS. They're Jehovahs witnesses, and threw him out of their home. Richmond gave him a full 4 year ride with full time housing the entire time he was enrolled, so I've always given them high marks for that. 

[ocugolf 1214]

I got recruited to play golf at some of the Ivys.  Got accepted into Yale.  Parents didn't want me that far away from home.  Fast forward a couple years, and we are paired with Yale in a college golf tournament in Florida.  We have to ride because the course is too hard to walk.  Guy from Yale asks if I will drive the cart because he had to study.  Spent 36 holes with him hitting a shot, getting back in the cart and studying World Religion.  Hindsight, I should have gone and at least tried for a year, but I don't know how long I would have lasted.

[Surly Bevo 24908]

You kick his ass?

[Vegas64 673]

1 hour ago, ocugolf said:

I got recruited to play golf at some of the Ivys.  Got accepted into Yale.  Parents didn't want me that far away from home.  Fast forward a couple years, and we are paired with Yale in a college golf tournament in Florida.  We have to ride because the course is too hard to walk.  Guy from Yale asks if I will drive the cart because he had to study.  Spent 36 holes with him hitting a shot, getting back in the cart and studying World Religion.  Hindsight, I should have gone and at least tried for a year, but I don't know how long I would have lasted.

You chose Oklahoma City University over Yale?

[Vegas64 673]

7 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

 

that is the last thing that Texas needs Texas has 35 pubic universities while California has 34 with a much larger population and of course more public schools with higher rankings.....and that is with "The California Plan For Higher Education" now holding back a lot of CSU System schools from being higher ranked or more respected because of the inability to conduct a high level of research or offer docotral and professional degrees except on a very limited basis

14 of the public universities in Texas have an enrollment under 10,000 and that is massively inefficient in terms of overhead and administrative cost

9 are still extremely inefficient with 16,000 or fewer students

we will leave out Texas having 6 university systems and 3 independent universities and the issues with that, but that needs to be addressed as well eventually

Texas waste massive amounts on money on "our area" bullshit with the north Texas state dallas campus being one example it was never needed, it is a failure, it sucks, it has had accreditation issues, a large % of the use of the campus is to rent to DCCCD and it has even failed to deliver on the real objective of the assholes that pushed for it and that was to get gas stations, restaurants, CStores, and maybe a grocery store or dollar store built in a shitty area of town with nothing

at least $200 million has been wasted on that McDegree factory and probably a lot more than that.....or the north Texas law school......it is also a pile of shit, had major accreditation issues, it sucks, it was built in the worst legal environment in history and their bar passage rate is shit which is why it took 7 fucking years to get full accreditation...probably $100 million was flushed down the toilet so far on it and dallas never came close to living up to their financial promises to help with the start up cost.....the goal of it was to get a shitty law school in dallas proper since Houston has 3 and Fort Worth has 1 and to steal state higher ed dollars to fix up the old rotting and steaming pile of shit dallas city hall

other fuck ups are UH Clear Lake being founded at the same time as UTD was starting....UTD working with TI and UHCL working with NASA

one is now a major university that is an economic engine and degree generator for the region with a rapidly growing enrollment and rapidly rising reputation (that is moving past the UH main campus) and the other just now offers some weak ass engineering programs and does not even offer anything aerospace related.....it is next to fucking NASA and was founded to train people for NASA and had/should have access to NASA level people to be faculty or adjuncts.....it only expanded downward to freshman and soph. about 8 or 10 years ago and the enrollment is less than 1/3 that of UTD

college station wanting to have 25,000 students just in the college of engineering.....while they shit on Kingsville and tried to take their natural gas engineering undergrad program away......when south Texas natural gas exploration and production was exploding

the failure to merge TAMU-K and TAMU-CC because not-so-sharp is a fucking fuck up idiot

6 of the 10 aggy campuses are under 10,000 students and 4 more are under 15,000.....but some fuck head wants a single college of a university to be 25,00 students....then he wanted to turn a former airport on the edge of a small town (college station) into yet another 4 year school because he thought people that lived in that area that could not get into aggy should still be able to be aggy.....in spite of Blinn in both CS and Brenham being provisional aggy

the UT Caps program was so successful at helping grow some of the UT System schools that they pulled out of the program because they do not want that potentially transient enrollment.....aggy has nothing similar other than blinn

the above list does not count all the shitty little system centers that some universities are littering the state with including building large buildings to house them instead of pairing with a high school to use classroom space or a community college if the area has one

Texas needs to do a much better job or supporting schools that have things in their area that make them unique.....like Texas State and aquatics....a good program that could be even better with better support.....a long past Texas State president happened to be a fan of Geography so he set the degree plans at Texas State (at the time) to run a lot of students through a class or two in geography......they have built a very respected program in that field now

SFA and Forestry, Lamar and engineering (massive petro complex in the area), Kingsville and wildlife and engineering and some areas of horticulture, TAMU-CC in coastal studies, Sul Ross Geology and Sul Ross should be able to work with UT to make use of the McDonald facilities and to build an astronomy/physics program (which of course goes with math and computing).....Tech and agriculture and engineering....SHSU and Criminal Justice

schools that have made use of things in their area and built respected programs in those fields or that made a plan to build an area of expertise....or some examples of what a school could make a name with if given the resources

from there you build enrollment and economies of scale and overall reputation

instead bullshit and waste gets in the way or the "flagship" of a (barely a) system gets in the way because they do not want some other campus getting a good reputation.....it is funny a lot of fans of other schools accuse UT Austin of shitting on system schools and that may have been true in the past, but it is far from it now....while the schools those people are a fan of shits on their system schools consistently.....like UH main campus stealing a nursing program from Victoria and then having to half ass rebuild it right back instead of building their own

or aggy putting a fucking campus in McAllen and having it a part of "college station" as if being there at a little glorified system center is the same as being at a bloated main campus that has an actual 4 year college and "college town" experience (no matter what you think of it) 

just fucking waste and assholes planting flags or assholes grabbing state dollars to produce custodial jobs and administrative jobs for voters at 4 year bastions of low enrollment and lower graduation rates offering degrees of not much value or demand

+ rep for the righteous rant.

[tx 3 putt 76870]

5 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

You chose Oklahoma City University over Yale?

 

i found ocu's senior pic ......

[Guest Lobo]

9 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

You chose Oklahoma City University over Yale?

I don't know why but I picture him in the driver's seat of the cart, stopping at the tee box and the Yale kid so engrossed in his textbook that he doesn't notice.  And ocugolf slaps the book out of his hands and shouts, "YOUR SHOT, NERD!"  

[tx 3 putt 76870]

9 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I don't know why but I picture him in the driver's seat of the cart, stopping at the tee box and the Yale kid so engrossed in his textbook that he doesn't notice.  And ocugolf slaps the book out of his hands and shouts, "YOUR SHOT, NERD!"  

 

i would have been goosing the brakes the whole time or made an opposite turn to throw him out

[Sbbruin 21829]

2 hours ago, ocugolf said:

I got recruited to play golf at some of the Ivys.  Got accepted into Yale.  Parents didn't want me that far away from home.  Fast forward a couple years, and we are paired with Yale in a college golf tournament in Florida.  We have to ride because the course is too hard to walk.  Guy from Yale asks if I will drive the cart because he had to study.  Spent 36 holes with him hitting a shot, getting back in the cart and studying World Religion.  Hindsight, I should have gone and at least tried for a year, but I don't know how long I would have lasted.

I would have really stuck it to him with...

[Sbbruin 21829]

30 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

You chose Oklahoma City University over Yale?

[Beau Vine 54207]

8 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

Texas needs to do a much better job or supporting schools that have things in their area that make them unique.....like Texas State and aquatics....a good program that could be even better with better support.....a long past Texas State president happened to be a fan of Geography so he set the degree plans at Texas State (at the time) to run a lot of students through a class or two in geography......they have built a very respected program in that field now

SFA and Forestry, Lamar and engineering (massive petro complex in the area), Kingsville and wildlife and engineering and some areas of horticulture, TAMU-CC in coastal studies, Sul Ross Geology and Sul Ross should be able to work with UT to make use of the McDonald facilities and to build an astronomy/physics program (which of course goes with math and computing).....Tech and agriculture and engineering....SHSU and Criminal Justice

schools that have made use of things in their area and built respected programs in those fields or that made a plan to build an area of expertise....or some examples of what a school could make a name with if given the resources

from there you build enrollment and economies of scale and overall reputation

Spot on.

On the complete other side of the coin, the universities in this state need to do a much better job shutting down underperforming programs.  The inability to do that has seriously been one of our biggest problems here in SM. My wife got a master's degree in technical writing a few years back.  It was a good program and has paid off for her, but half her classes seemed to have 4 or fewer students enrolled; one class had two.  Meanwhile, I was teaching grad classes with 45 students, even though the enrollment cap was supposed to be 30.  

Back in 2008, I somehow ended up as the faculty rep on the university budget committee.  At the first meeting after the economy crashed, the provost started talking about how they were going to handle the budget shortfall.  He said, "I can tell you this, no program will be cut under my watch!"  I wanted to fucking scream at him.  Instead, they just relaxed admission, jacked up enrollment, and torpedoed the S/F ratio to fund the shortfall.  

A functioning university system does not need to offer French majors at every system school.  That kind of thing is just fucking stupid; it's like lighting money on fire.  

 

[Guest Lobo]

Always puzzles me when those 1-pagers for college recruiting always list the number of programs in big, bold colors.  My first thought is, "What does a school of 2,800 students need with 190 degree programs?"  Some of them have to be woefully underperforming; not to mention like Beau Vine said, barely populated.  

UT-Austin would be ranked even higher if it was legislatively mandated to carry so many degree programs that used to be the staple of a flagship university.  We gotta lot of dead weight programs that are still offered just because they've been offered for 100 years.  If we can create new ones out of the blue as times change, I don't see what we can't cut some that no longer serve much of a purpose and see only a handful of graduates each year.  

My neighbor is touring Puget Sound University this weekend with his son.  I told them, "Whatever you do, don't ask about Ted Bundy."  I'm curious to see if my inception attempt will work.  

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

There are a lot of demographic at play in the college universe.  Millenials and Get Z are large generations so there is plenty of demand for college slots.  However, beginning in 2008 a baby bust started and never improved.  Kids born in 2008 will be 18 in 2026.  After that point I suspect you'll be able to get into anywhere and some of these smaller schools will start having financial problems.  

[ButtFumble 5164]

29 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Spot on.

On the complete other side of the coin, the universities in this state need to do a much better job shutting down underperforming programs.  The inability to do that has seriously been one of our biggest problems here in SM. My wife got a master's degree in technical writing a few years back.  It was a good program and has paid off for her, but half her classes seemed to have 4 or fewer students enrolled; one class had two.  Meanwhile, I was teaching grad classes with 45 students, even though the enrollment cap was supposed to be 30.  

Back in 2008, I somehow ended up as the faculty rep on the university budget committee.  At the first meeting after the economy crashed, the provost started talking about how they were going to handle the budget shortfall.  He said, "I can tell you this, no program will be cut under my watch!"  I wanted to fucking scream at him.  Instead, they just relaxed admission, jacked up enrollment, and torpedoed the S/F ratio to fund the shortfall.  

A functioning university system does not need to offer French majors at every system school.  That kind of thing is just fucking stupid; it's like lighting money on fire.  

 

you are so right...I figured my rant was long enough, but that is a major issue

not to pick on psychology, but it is about the most popular major in the USA and at many schools, but I bet 90% of the people enrolling in that degree program do not have a clue that to actually do anything in that field you need a masters.....and most probably do not figure that out until they have that 2.75 with only 15 hours left to graduate

I am all for education for the sake of education and it pisses me off when some schools start charging extra for classes if you get over some number of credit hours (usually 20 or so past what it takes for an undergrad degree) because they want to run you off......but shit every school on earth with a pretty much horrible psychology department, not close to the masters slots to support even their own top students and no discussions with incoming majors about the need for a masters or what they think they will do with that degree (corporate HR holla!)

yes you still need the department and the classes for well rounded students of all majors, but for fuck sakes how about limiting enrollment at some places and at least offering a half way decent degree with a good chance to get into a masters program and get through it

here is the super touchy one....in a state with two public African American universities......do we really need an African American studies at shit loads of the other state universities...UH has an African American Studies BA.....next door to TSU.....I mean come on now...

same with Latino or Hispanic Studies.....lets not pretend that San Antonio or the RGV represents what that is all about (more like Doritos Locos Studies), but shit how about an attempt to build some actual top programs at places that have that culture in droves (or some aspects of it)

does everyone need a history BA offered.....yes of course you need the department and the classes for well rounded students.....but do like Texas State did with Geography.....run all your students through the department for core courses and then instead of letting in every history major (or Geography at Texas State) with a pulse choose an area or two of expertise (I mean there are millions to choose from in History) and then limit your actual degree seeking enrollment to students that have a clue why they picked that major and your university specifically....instead universities do the opposite they say "well we have to have the department might as well let in everyone with a pulse since our department just exist to exist"......and of course with that attitude it will always exist to exist and not much more

I think with the engineering college and that enrollment gain and getting to the 40,000 level of enrollment (where growing larger can actually COST you economies of scale)  and with more Doctoral programs offered in very select areas Texas State is actually starting to do better about trimming programs that just exist to exist

state wide though what you stated has to cost us hundreds of millions a year and leave students that might actually have an interest in a field of study choosing from dozens of "meh" programs if  they cannot get into a top program in the state and that leaves then disenfranchised

realigning a lot of that would result in fewer overall programs in some fields, but much higher quality programs left on those fields and then you get the economies of scale at the places that have a better program and that builds on itself......but of course realignment so many means "winners and losers" (universities losing degree programs and maybe not getting as many gaining support as they lost) and everyone is suppose to be a winner

[Bateshorn 9927]

41 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

There are a lot of demographic at play in the college universe.  Millenials and Get Z are large generations so there is plenty of demand for college slots.  However, beginning in 2008 a baby bust started and never improved.  Kids born in 2008 will be 18 in 2026.  After that point I suspect you'll be able to get into anywhere and some of these smaller schools will start having financial problems.  

For sure.  It’ll be analogous to the mid 90s when everyone relaxed their standards cause Gen X was so fucking small. 

[South Austin 52454]

3 hours ago, ocugolf said:

I got recruited to play golf at some of the Ivys.  Got accepted into Yale.  Parents didn't want me that far away from home.  Fast forward a couple years, and we are paired with Yale in a college golf tournament in Florida.  We have to ride because the course is too hard to walk.  Guy from Yale asks if I will drive the cart because he had to study.  Spent 36 holes with him hitting a shot, getting back in the cart and studying World Religion.  Hindsight, I should have gone and at least tried for a year, but I don't know how long I would have lasted.

One of my best friends (a later-in-life friend) went to Yale, but you'd hardly know it.  He's one of the smartest guys I've ever met, and he's far from the socially-awkward Ivies I've come across in my life.  I even chuckle inside when I hear people ask him where he went to college, and he says "in the northeast," like he's almost embarrassed to say he went to Yale.

But based on what he's told me about his college life, (1) he worked his ass off in undergrad in a way I never did, and (2) the collective sexual experience of his class after four years at Yale was just above a monastery. 

[Hefeweizen 5310]

3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

For sure.  It’ll be analogous to the mid 90s when everyone relaxed their standards cause Gen X was so fucking small. 

I resemble that remark.  I started at UT in 91 and the civil engineering department standards instantly dropped.

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

8 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

For sure.  It’ll be analogous to the mid 90s when everyone relaxed their standards cause Gen X was so fucking small. 

That's why you see some of these quotes about how easy it was for people to get into UT or whatever.  They're Gen Xers.

[Brisketexan 105066]

4 minutes ago, South Austin said:

But based on what he's told me about his college life, (1) he worked his ass off in undergrad in a way I never did, and (2) the collective sexual experience of his class after four years at Yale was just above a monastery. 

Perhaps the two biggest reasons why I am so much happier that I went to Texas over an Ivy league school.

Well, that, and the Ivies wouldn't want me.  In fact, early in law school at Texas, was busy drinking way too much with my law school friends at Nasty's.  We ended up having a heated debate about the proper situational usage of the competing terms "naked," "nekkid," and "nude."  As the debate wound down, there was a long pause, and one of my buddies said "you know......there's a reason Harvard didn't let any of us in."

[Beau Vine 54207]

58 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Always puzzles me when those 1-pagers for college recruiting always list the number of programs in big, bold colors.  My first thought is, "What does a school of 2,800 students need with 190 degree programs?" 

TAMU-Kingsville always advertised on Texan Live at every fucking commercial break during the HS football playoffs, and they always bragged on having "100+ degree programs."  

Look at this one, and explain to me what the end result of this degree is supposed to be:

https://catalog.tamuk.edu/undergraduate/education-human-performance/teacher-bilingual-education/interdisciplinary-studies-bs-business-finance-6-12/

 

 

[South Austin 52454]

7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

That's why you see some of these quotes about how easy it was for people to get into UT or whatever.  They're Gen Xers.

You also have to factor in the Top 10% rule, now more like Top 6%, I think.  I think UT started that for both undergrad and law school when I was a junior.  While I did well enough in undergrad to get into UT Law early admission under the Top 10% rule, I'm fairly certain there's no way I would've gotten into UT as an undergrad if that rule was in place coming out of high school.

Edit:  Come to think of it, I got into law school around the time of the Hopwood case in which the Fifth Circuit said UT Law couldn't use race as a factor in admissions.  The Top 10% rule came after that in a way to get around Hopwood. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by South Austin

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

The coming "college crash" will be interesting.  The big state schools with high profile athletic programs will be fine.  Same with decent schools in big markets (UTSA and UH).  Elite privates, too.

What will fold will be directional schools in small markets and expensive privates that are expensive just because they're private.  I'd say in the 2030's, you might actually see entire universities fold.

[Bateshorn 9927]

9 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The coming "college crash" will be interesting.  The big state schools with high profile athletic programs will be fine.  Same with decent schools in big markets (UTSA and UH).  Elite privates, too.

What will fold will be directional schools in small markets and expensive privates that are expensive just because they're private.  I'd say in the 2030's, you might actually see entire universities fold.

For schools like Bates that chose to eat their seed corn (going on a building spree during the Aughts instead of investing in the endowment, it becomes a brutal cycle of raising tuition, then having to give huge discounts via merit and need grants to get kids on campus. 
 

Also, I can’t begin to describe to y’all the low quality of female talent at those NE liberal arts schools.  The best looking girl while I was there would have barely been a soft 7 at UT.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Bateshorn

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

Just now, Bateshorn said:

For schools like Bates that chose to eat their seed corn (going on a building spree during the Aughts instead of investing in the endowment, it becomes a brutal cycle of raising tuition, then having to give huge discounts via merit and need grants to get kids on campus.  

Then you start having awkward but frank conversations about who you admit and who you don't.  Can their parents pay full tuition or not?  You can't have an entire class of merits not paying anything.

College is a business and they got bills to pay.

[Bateshorn 9927]

1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Then you start having awkward but frank conversations about who you admit and who you don't.  Can their parents pay full tuition or not?  You can't have an entire class of merits not paying anything.

College is a business and they got bills to pay.

This already goes on.  For every Susie poor but smart your let in, you gotta cover that with a wealthy dipshit Chad.  Or until the latter Trump Administration, a wealthy kid from China. 

[South Austin 52454]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Perhaps the two biggest reasons why I am so much happier that I went to Texas over an Ivy league school.

Same. 

You may have had this same experience in your law school class, but in mine we had a fair amount of Ivy League undergrads, and other than Gregg Costa (who went to Dartmouth and eventually became a Fifth Circuit judge), I don't believe any of those -- or others who went to the more "elite" universities (e.g., Northwestern, Stanford, UVa, Rice) -- made Chancellors or Law Review. 

[Brisketexan 105066]

Just now, South Austin said:

Same. 

You may have had this same experience in your law school class, but in mine we had a fair amount of Ivy League undergrads, and other than Gregg Costa (who went to Dartmouth and eventually became a Fifth Circuit judge), I don't believe any of those -- or others who went to the more "elite" universities (e.g., Northwestern, Stanford, UVa, Rice) -- made Chancellors or Law Review. 

My smartest friend, who made Chancellors, went to LSU undergrad.   So, like, the opposite of an elite university.

Met my first Yalies in law school.  I was unimpressed.   Their chief attribute seemed to be the ability to say "I went to Yale," and to do that weird hissing thing when someone voiced an opinion they didn't like.

But to be fair, my chief concentration of studies in law school was in "pitchers of beer at the Posse," so I'm maybe not the best example.

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

I think a category that will really plummet are these directional state schools in small/rural towns.  There are a ton of these and they're glorified jobs programs for those towns but those towns have very few young people anymore and kids from cities aren't going to want to go away to school in Buttfuck.  UTSA, sure.  Southeastern Oklahoma State?  Why?  

[SimonBolivar 10957]

22 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I think a category that will really plummet are these directional state schools in small/rural towns.  There are a ton of these and they're glorified jobs programs for those towns but those towns have very few young people anymore and kids from cities aren't going to want to go away to school in Buttfuck.  UTSA, sure.  Southeastern Oklahoma State?  Why?  

Many of them are going hard into the paint with online. I'm a grad student at a small town directional state college right now and in our field there are maybe 2 or 3 that live within 100 miles of campus and only 10% or so that even live in that state. 

[ocugolf 1214]

2 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

You chose Oklahoma City University over Yale?

Lol. I did. Grandfather played basketball there. Dad and uncle played golf there. It was free. From where I’m from going to Oklahoma City, just the town, is noteworthy. Worked out fine in the end. 12 to one girl to guy ratio.

[Bateshorn 9927]

Just now, SimonBolivar said:

Many of them are going hard into the paint with online. I'm a grad student at a small town directional state college right now and in our field there are maybe 2 or 3 that live within 100 miles of campus and only 10% or so that even live in that state. 

Also: Healthcare.  It’s no joke when I describe America as a health conglomerate with an Army.  For a lot of rural areas, Health care is the one guaranteed  career.  The problem is, the demand and pay is much better in the urban areas. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19414]

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

Also: Healthcare.  It’s no joke when I describe America as a health conglomerate with an Army.  For a lot of rural areas, Health care is the one guaranteed  career.  The problem is, the demand and pay is much better in the urban areas. 

True of IT as well. In a previous job, I sold IT in the SLED space. I had a customer in semi-rural South Louisiana that was the CIO of the local ISD, and also taught at the community college. They had a high school program in conjunction with the community college where kids would take CC courses in HS and earn dual credit. He would use the students to run about 50% of the school system's IT systems, and when they graduated they would have some sort of associates in IT and a handful of useful certifications. He said he could hire those kids full time right out of high school for $15,000 a year (this was in 2014-2015), but once they got a couple years of real work experience most of them would take off to Houston or New Orleans and make $60-$75K right out of the gate.

[LCHorn 2615]

10 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

 

that is the last thing that Texas needs Texas has 35 pubic universities while California has 34 with a much larger population and of course more public schools with higher rankings.....and that is with "The California Plan For Higher Education" now holding back a lot of CSU System schools from being higher ranked or more respected because of the inability to conduct a high level of research or offer docotral and professional degrees except on a very limited basis

14 of the public universities in Texas have an enrollment under 10,000 and that is massively inefficient in terms of overhead and administrative cost

9 are still extremely inefficient with 16,000 or fewer students

we will leave out Texas having 6 university systems and 3 independent universities and the issues with that, but that needs to be addressed as well eventually

Texas waste massive amounts on money on "our area" bullshit with the north Texas state dallas campus being one example it was never needed, it is a failure, it sucks, it has had accreditation issues, a large % of the use of the campus is to rent to DCCCD and it has even failed to deliver on the real objective of the assholes that pushed for it and that was to get gas stations, restaurants, CStores, and maybe a grocery store or dollar store built in a shitty area of town with nothing

at least $200 million has been wasted on that McDegree factory and probably a lot more than that.....or the north Texas law school......it is also a pile of shit, had major accreditation issues, it sucks, it was built in the worst legal environment in history and their bar passage rate is shit which is why it took 7 fucking years to get full accreditation...probably $100 million was flushed down the toilet so far on it and dallas never came close to living up to their financial promises to help with the start up cost.....the goal of it was to get a shitty law school in dallas proper since Houston has 3 and Fort Worth has 1 and to steal state higher ed dollars to fix up the old rotting and steaming pile of shit dallas city hall

other fuck ups are UH Clear Lake being founded at the same time as UTD was starting....UTD working with TI and UHCL working with NASA

one is now a major university that is an economic engine and degree generator for the region with a rapidly growing enrollment and rapidly rising reputation (that is moving past the UH main campus) and the other just now offers some weak ass engineering programs and does not even offer anything aerospace related.....it is next to fucking NASA and was founded to train people for NASA and had/should have access to NASA level people to be faculty or adjuncts.....it only expanded downward to freshman and soph. about 8 or 10 years ago and the enrollment is less than 1/3 that of UTD

college station wanting to have 25,000 students just in the college of engineering.....while they shit on Kingsville and tried to take their natural gas engineering undergrad program away......when south Texas natural gas exploration and production was exploding

the failure to merge TAMU-K and TAMU-CC because not-so-sharp is a fucking fuck up idiot

6 of the 10 aggy campuses are under 10,000 students and 4 more are under 15,000.....but some fuck head wants a single college of a university to be 25,00 students....then he wanted to turn a former airport on the edge of a small town (college station) into yet another 4 year school because he thought people that lived in that area that could not get into aggy should still be able to be aggy.....in spite of Blinn in both CS and Brenham being provisional aggy

the UT Caps program was so successful at helping grow some of the UT System schools that they pulled out of the program because they do not want that potentially transient enrollment.....aggy has nothing similar other than blinn

the above list does not count all the shitty little system centers that some universities are littering the state with including building large buildings to house them instead of pairing with a high school to use classroom space or a community college if the area has one

Texas needs to do a much better job or supporting schools that have things in their area that make them unique.....like Texas State and aquatics....a good program that could be even better with better support.....a long past Texas State president happened to be a fan of Geography so he set the degree plans at Texas State (at the time) to run a lot of students through a class or two in geography......they have built a very respected program in that field now

SFA and Forestry, Lamar and engineering (massive petro complex in the area), Kingsville and wildlife and engineering and some areas of horticulture, TAMU-CC in coastal studies, Sul Ross Geology and Sul Ross should be able to work with UT to make use of the McDonald facilities and to build an astronomy/physics program (which of course goes with math and computing).....Tech and agriculture and engineering....SHSU and Criminal Justice

schools that have made use of things in their area and built respected programs in those fields or that made a plan to build an area of expertise....or some examples of what a school could make a name with if given the resources

from there you build enrollment and economies of scale and overall reputation

instead bullshit and waste gets in the way or the "flagship" of a (barely a) system gets in the way because they do not want some other campus getting a good reputation.....it is funny a lot of fans of other schools accuse UT Austin of shitting on system schools and that may have been true in the past, but it is far from it now....while the schools those people are a fan of shits on their system schools consistently.....like UH main campus stealing a nursing program from Victoria and then having to half ass rebuild it right back instead of building their own

or aggy putting a fucking campus in McAllen and having it a part of "college station" as if being there at a little glorified system center is the same as being at a bloated main campus that has an actual 4 year college and "college town" experience (no matter what you think of it) 

just fucking waste and assholes planting flags or assholes grabbing state dollars to produce custodial jobs and administrative jobs for voters at 4 year bastions of low enrollment and lower graduation rates offering degrees of not much value or demand

Wow, now that’s a rebuttal!  Great post.

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

28 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Many of them are going hard into the paint with online. I'm a grad student at a small town directional state college right now and in our field there are maybe 2 or 3 that live within 100 miles of campus and only 10% or so that even live in that state. 

That's all well and good but the business model of those towns are 18 year olds moving there and renting apartments and going to shitty restaurants.

[SimonBolivar 10957]

4 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

That's all well and good but the business model of those towns are 18 year olds moving there and renting apartments and going to shitty restaurants.

Oh yeah I've never even been to this state before (Nebraska), much less contributed to the economy like a traditional student would.

[Surly Bevo 24908]

A functioning university system does not need to offer French majors at every system school.  That kind of thing is just fucking stupid; it's like lighting money on fire.  
 

[Vegas64 673]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

Same. 

You may have had this same experience in your law school class, but in mine we had a fair amount of Ivy League undergrads, and other than Gregg Costa (who went to Dartmouth and eventually became a Fifth Circuit judge), I don't believe any of those -- or others who went to the more "elite" universities (e.g., Northwestern, Stanford, UVa, Rice) -- made Chancellors or Law Review. 

No offense to UT law, but going from an Ivy undergrad to UT Law is not the move in the right direction. Your peers were the bottom 50% of their ivy cohorts most likely. The smarter ivies stayed in the ivy or little ivy bubble. The LSU undergrad going to UT Law, on the other hand, is probably the smartest guy in Baton Rouge.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Vegas64

[TwiceHorn 31438]

13 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

No offense to UT law, but going from an Ivy undergrad to UT Law is not the move in the right direction. Your peers were the bottom 50% of their ivy cohorts most likely. The smarter ivies stayed in the ivy or little ivy bubble. The LSU undergrad going to UT Law, on the other hand, is probably the smartest guy in Baton Rouge.

Probably right, generally speaking.  But rather than being low from their Ivy, they tend to have some connection to Texas.

And they do alright. https://www.susmangodfrey.com/attorneys/j-hoketrey-peacock-iii/

https://www.velaw.com/people/david-palmer-oelman/

I don't recall any Elis while I was there, or many if any Harvard men/women.  But the Princetonians did alright.

Edited April 8, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[We’reTexas 1473]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Probably right, generally speaking.  But rather than being low from their Ivy, they tend to have some connection to Texas.

And they do alright. https://www.susmangodfrey.com/attorneys/j-hoketrey-peacock-iii/

https://www.velaw.com/people/david-palmer-oelman/

David O is a legend. 
 

Yes, agree but if you know you want to practice in Texas and wanted to avoid >$200k in debt, UT Law would make sense as many Ivy grads could roll in with substantial scholarships. 

[TwiceHorn 31438]

3 minutes ago, We’reTexas said:

David O is a legend. 
 

Yes, agree but if you know you want to practice in Texas and wanted to avoid >$200k in debt, UT Law would make sense as many Ivy grads could roll in with substantial scholarships. 

They were not my class, but fairly well known as savants and Oelman was beyond laid back.  You'd never in a million years guess that he was at the tip top of his class.  And how could you miss J. Hoke Peacock III from Beaumont?

Edited April 8, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Bateshorn 9927]

Speaking of Elite schools, Varsity Blues strikes again.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/08/us/college-admissions-scandal-mark-riddell-sentencing/index.html
 

On a related note, if you have a smart, talented HS athlete, but not scholarship worthy, you should explore preferred admissions at a D3.