Elite private schools and college admissions

[DallasGatr 216]

They do.  Other schools in the south have in-state reciprocity agreements with Texas for certain schools.  I believe Texas kids can get in-state tuition at a lot of other SEC schools such as LSU, Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss. State, and Florida.  There are Texas schools offering the same for kids from those state, though the University of Texas is not one of them.  There's a website out there that has this information but I can't seem to find it.

You can cross Florida off that list. They cap out of state kids at 10% and get the rack rate on just about all of them.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

17 hours ago, Lobo said:

2.7 GPA and Italian.  Yep, checks out.  Honestly, I'm surprised it was that high.  Good on him.  

[Brisketexan 105,164]

55 minutes ago, We’reTexas said:

Yes, agree but if you know you want to practice in Texas and wanted to avoid >$200k in debt, UT Law would make sense as many Ivy grads could roll in with substantial scholarships. 

This.

During the application process, when it came time to issue admit decisions, Yale actually contacted me and wanted some follow-up information (whether that would have ultimately led to admission, who knows -- but it's more than Harvard or Stanford did, they just told me "no.").   But in the meantime, Texas told me yes, and offered me a full ride.  And there was a cute girl here I had gotten serious with.  And that meant another 3 years in Austin, and football games, and all that.  I never got back to Yale with the follow up info, and I graduated debt free and ended up working at a firm where several of my classmates had gone to ivies.  So, no skin of my nose.

Married the girl, too.

[Vegas64 676]

23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.

During the application process, when it came time to issue admit decisions, Yale actually contacted me and wanted some follow-up information (whether that would have ultimately led to admission, who knows -- but it's more than Harvard or Stanford did, they just told me "no.").   But in the meantime, Texas told me yes, and offered me a full ride.  And there was a cute girl here I had gotten serious with.  And that meant another 3 years in Austin, and football games, and all that.  I never got back to Yale with the follow up info, and I graduated debt free and ended up working at a firm where several of my classmates had gone to ivies.  So, no skin of my nose.

Married the girl, too.

Sounds like it worked out more than great for you. There is no doubt though that going from UT undergrad to Yale Law would have been a proud moment, a prestigious feat, and would have opened up doors that you didn't have upon graduation, but then again you knew what you wanted and it was in Austin.

Just saying for those who have shared experiences with ivies who were not impressed or found them to be pedestrian, keep in mind you are probably not dealing with the top of the class. Like I said, many aren't going from Harvard undergrad to UT Law on purpose as a first choice, most likely, though I'm sure someone can find a story where one did.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

If you get into an Ivy or Stanford for law school, you absolutely have elite intellectual horsepower.

But the problem is that getting into those schools is the only hard part.  You can do nothing and graduate -- they are almost impossible to fail out of.  Most who do matriculate at those schools are smart and work hard.  But a minority but not insignificant amount of them are smart but lazy and don't do shit but show up and get their degrees.  Lower ranked but still good law schools will weed out those who aren't willing to do any work.

[Surly Bevo 25,084]

13 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

If you get into an Ivy or Stanford for law school, you absolutely have elite intellectual horsepower.

But the problem is that getting into those schools is the only hard part.  You can do nothing and graduate -- they are almost impossible to fail out of.  Most who do matriculate at those schools are smart and work hard.  But a minority but not insignificant amount of them are smart but lazy and don't do shit but show up and get their degrees.  Lower ranked but still good law schools will weed out those who aren't willing to do any work.

UT is becoming more like this.  It's an assload harder to get into than it was in my day but based on this first year of having a freshman there they are much more concerned about retaining you and getting you through in 4 years now than weeding your ass out.  I'm not saying it's all sunshine and lollipops and that you don't have to work, but it seems like you gotta kind of fuck off a whole lot now to get bounced.

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

29 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

You can do nothing and graduate -- they are almost impossible to fail out of.  

 

[DaysOff 7,959]

The bionic woman handed him his grades and he tossed them in the ocean because he knew he aced his exams.

[South Austin 52,523]

43 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

If you get into an Ivy or Stanford for law school, you absolutely have elite intellectual horsepower.

But the problem is that getting into those schools is the only hard part.  You can do nothing and graduate -- they are almost impossible to fail out of.  Most who do matriculate at those schools are smart and work hard.  But a minority but not insignificant amount of them are smart but lazy and don't do shit but show up and get their degrees.  Lower ranked but still good law schools will weed out those who aren't willing to do any work.

This is true.  Yale Law is entirely pass/fail (or at least it was during my time).  Harvard Law reportedly had an incredibly generous curve where something like 80% of the class got a B or higher.  I'm not saying that the people who get into those law schools don't work hard.  But they have the combination of (1) no pressure of a curve, and (2) the name "Yale Law" or "Harvard Law" on their diplomas.  Just by setting foot on campus their first day of 1L they've made it.

Texas Law had a pretty harsh and unforgiving curve when I was there, at least for your 1L grades and some of the larger upper courses.  Am I saying we on the whole worked harder than our Ivy League law school counterparts?  Not really.  But shit, that grade pressure your first two years at Texas is an absolute grinder. 

Now, in a vaccum, would I rather have "Harvard" on my law school diploma than "University of Texas"?  Sure.  But like Brisket, I wouldn't trade my Texas Law experience for anything.  I had fun with cool, smart people who liked to get drunk and talk about things other than the Founding Fathers' intent, and many are friends for life.  And in my third year I saw every home game of Ricky Williams' Heisman Trophy season.

Edited April 8, 2022 by South Austin

[South Austin 52,523]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

This.

During the application process, when it came time to issue admit decisions, Yale actually contacted me and wanted some follow-up information (whether that would have ultimately led to admission, who knows -- but it's more than Harvard or Stanford did, they just told me "no.").   But in the meantime, Texas told me yes, and offered me a full ride.  And there was a cute girl here I had gotten serious with.  And that meant another 3 years in Austin, and football games, and all that.  I never got back to Yale with the follow up info, and I graduated debt free and ended up working at a firm where several of my classmates had gone to ivies.  So, no skin of my nose.

Married the girl, too.

Brisket to Yale: “I gotta go see about a girl.”

[DalTxHornFan 3,109]

52 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

If you get into an Ivy or Stanford for law school, you absolutely have elite intellectual horsepower.

But the problem is that getting into those schools is the only hard part.  You can do nothing and graduate -- they are almost impossible to fail out of.  Most who do matriculate at those schools are smart and work hard.  But a minority but not insignificant amount of them are smart but lazy and don't do shit but show up and get their degrees.  Lower ranked but still good law schools will weed out those who aren't willing to do any work.

I work with lots of lawyers. Some with pedigrees.  But when it gets down to getting in the trenches in commercial litigation -- Texas, U of H, St. Mary's, Baylor, and Tech lawyers are pretty good at kicking ass and getting results for their clients.

Update:  And it has been my experience that baby lawyers from Baylor and U of H have the least learning curve about how to practice law.  Those schools seem to be very practical about what they teach.

Edited April 8, 2022 by DalTxHornFan

[Brisketexan 105,164]

43 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Brisket to Yale: “I gotta go see about a girl.”

It was the right call, too.  No ragrets.

[dcbc 14,492]

3 hours ago, South Austin said:

Now, in a vaccum, would I rather have "Harvard" on my law school diploma than "University of Texas"?  Sure.  But like Brisket, I wouldn't trade my Texas Law experience for anything.  I had fun with cool, smart people who liked to get drunk and talk about things other than the Founding Fathers' intent, and many are friends for life.  And in my third year I saw every home game of Ricky Williams' Heisman Trophy season.

I'm a pilot.  I can fly.

 

Er, uh, I'm a lawyer too.  The 1L experience is fairly standardized at most halfway decent law schools around the country.  Some are more "practical" than others.  I've met plenty of solid lawyers from schools I'd not really given much thought to and some weird lawyers from schools I would have expected more from (and the other way around).  But living where I do, I run into a lot of Baylor lawyers, and I just want to say this:  The rest of us don't give a shit about Practice Court.

 

That is all.

Edited April 9, 2022 by dcbc

[South Austin 52,523]

1 hour ago, dcbc said:

But living where I do, I run into a lot of Baylor lawyers, and I just want to say this:  The rest of us don't give a shit about Practice Court.

 

If I have to hear another Baylor grad try to brag about Practice Court, I’m going to punch a puppy.

Edited April 9, 2022 by South Austin

[Guest Lobo]

Do they really refer to it as "Practice Court".........is that like "Practice Sex" where you just start your argument and if they don't like it, you fuck 'em anyway?  

Sorry to pick on Baylor.  But it's a shithole rapist institution of a mythology religion that should be burned to the fucking ground.  But I'm sensitive in my old age.  

It shouldn't exist.  If you have a degree from there, enjoy and make good.  That entire part of Texas' history is a mistake that never should have happened.  

It's like the Catholic Church, Penn State, and Cerebral Malaria all decided to open up a central texas "learning center" for the touched.

[TwiceHorn 31,511]

Yeah, they call it practice court and I think they spend the whole third year doing it.  It's more or less a soup to nuts mock trial.

It is, apparently, pretty intense.  But in the final analysis not much more than a trial ad course.  UT used to have pretty good trial advocacy programs, both for credit and extracurricular.  It's pretty good training, but still doesn't substitute for OJT, especially for complex litigation or federal litigation.

[South Austin 52,523]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, they call it practice court and I think they spend the whole third year doing it.  It's more or less a soup to nuts mock trial.

It is, apparently, pretty intense.  But in the final analysis not much more than a trial ad course.  UT used to have pretty good trial advocacy programs, both for credit and extracurricular.  It's pretty good training, but still doesn't substitute for OJT, especially for complex litigation or federal litigation.

Yeah, I took the 5-hour Advanced Civil Litigation course my last semester. We took a PRACTICE deposition. We argued a PRACTICE motion for summary judgment. The course culminated with a PRACTICE trial. And here’s the thing:

It don’t mean shit until you take an ACTUAL deposition, and argue an ACTUAL motion for summary judgment, and handle an ACTUAL trial. All the PRACTICE in law school doesn’t do much until you do this shit for a few years in REAL LIFE.

I remember when I interned for Pricilla Owen at the Texas Supreme Court my third year of law school, and her chambers took me out to lunch at the end of the semester. Oddly, Owen, her permanent staff attorney, and her two briefing attorneys fresh out of law school, all went to Baylor, and spontaneously during the lunch they all felt the need to justify their Baylor degrees by going on and on and on about how grueling Practice Court was. I just nodded and said to myself, “You insecure mother fuckers. Stop hogging all the salsa.”

[Gil Bang 25,982]

On 4/2/2022 at 9:04 AM, Bateshorn said:

I have many thoughts about this, as somebody who is wrapping up Boy#2 in college apps. Boy 1 went to an elite private hs, Boy 2 a magnet public hs. I also went to an elite-ish East Coast school. 
 

The first thing you have to realize is the keys to the kingdom schools (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Princeton) is everyone, EVERYONE, unless you are the child of a President, is a lottery school.  It’s just that fucking hard to get in. There’s a whole second tier of schools: Columbia, Williams, Pomona, Duke, UCLA, Berkeley, Northwestern, etc. are nearly as bad. 

Your child being a girl of privilege also hurts. Girls tend to have far more competitive applications than boys and also apply in MUCH larger numbers, so the applicant pool is larger and more competitive.  Boys just aren’t going to colleges at really any academic level as much as girls. schools are picky about their girls and they let it less qualified boys lest every campus look like Smith. 
 

Outside of Asians in STEM, the most competitive applicant is East Coast Becky: Captain is the Field Hockey Team, top ten in her class at competitive hs, Student council president, Drama, Orchestra, tons od volunteer, etc. East Coast Becky, Southern Madison, West Coast Lily fucking swamp elite admissions. 

There’s a bit of random pick from a hat effect at the end of the day. Also: Swathmore and VT are hard as fuck to get into.  VT is now considered an elite STEM school on par with Georgia Tech and MIT.

I didn't get accepted to Pomona, but I did get accepted into the vaginas of about a half-dozen of the coeds there. 

[Satchel 6,938]

On 4/7/2022 at 1:42 PM, South Austin said:

They do.  Other schools in the south have in-state reciprocity agreements with Texas for certain schools.  I believe Texas kids can get in-state tuition at a lot of other SEC schools such as LSU, Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss. State, and Florida.  There are Texas schools offering the same for kids from those state, though the University of Texas is not one of them.  There's a website out there that has this information but I can't seem to find it.

An unintended consequence of these agreements is schools like UH, Tech and some of the UT system schools lose very bright Texans to schools with perceptibly better brands, even though they may not be better schools.

[tx 3 putt 77,200]

8 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Speaking of Elite schools, Varsity Blues strikes again.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/08/us/college-admissions-scandal-mark-riddell-sentencing/index.html
 

On a related note, if you have a smart, talented HS athlete, but not scholarship worthy, you should explore preferred admissions at a D3.  

 

buddy of mine pitched in D3, his school was 100% paid 

[CooterBrown 18,015]

12 to one girl to guy ratio.

Unfortunately, it was also a 3:1 weight ratio between the women and men.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

39 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

 

Unfortunately, it was also a 3:1 weight ratio between the women and men.

 

So was the campus in jeopardy of tipping over with all that weight ?

[ButtFumble 5,180]

7 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

 

Unfortunately, it was also a 3:1 weight ratio between the women and men.

if they are Mexican girls that will feature Vic Mackey in Back To School Two Quest For The Educated Cholas

[gurt 749]

Big surprise, the lawyers turned this into a law school discussion 😉

In my experience being in tech, where you went to school matters at lot less than other fields.  It probably matters at the FAANG level perhaps, but for example our software architect and principal engineer both went to no name schools in the midwest.  Perhaps it is because it requires a more demonstrable skillset than others.  If you can prove you know how to code at a high level, no one cares where you learned it.  Just my observations.

[TwiceHorn 31,511]

18 hours ago, South Austin said:

Yeah, I took the 5-hour Advanced Civil Litigation course my last semester. We took a PRACTICE deposition. We argued a PRACTICE motion for summary judgment. The course culminated with a PRACTICE trial. And here’s the thing:

It don’t mean shit until you take an ACTUAL deposition, and argue an ACTUAL motion for summary judgment, and handle an ACTUAL trial. All the PRACTICE in law school doesn’t do much until you do this shit for a few years in REAL LIFE.

I remember when I interned for Pricilla Owen at the Texas Supreme Court my third year of law school, and her chambers took me out to lunch at the end of the semester. Oddly, Owen, her permanent staff attorney, and her two briefing attorneys fresh out of law school, all went to Baylor, and spontaneously during the lunch they all felt the need to justify their Baylor degrees by going on and on and on about how grueling Practice Court was. I just nodded and said to myself, “You insecure mother fuckers. Stop hogging all the salsa.”

I did learn, however, not to attempt to script questions, particularly for a deposition.  I had the devil of a time convincing young lawyers not to do that until they took their first embarrassing deposition.

What was Prissy like as a person? If she is, in fact, a person.  I have my doubts.

Edited April 9, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[South Austin 52,523]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

What was Prissy like as a person? If she is, in fact, a person.  I have my doubts.

She didn’t interact with me as much; when she did she was pleasant but stiff. I worked mostly with her staff attorney, who at the end of my internship told me that if I applied for a briefing attorney position I’d be sure it get it, so I guess made a good impression of sorts. I politely declined, because I had already heard what a bitch Owen was to work for.

Years later I actually had the opportunity to dine with her socially on a couple occasions. Still pleasant, but awkward as fuck. 

[Satchel 6,938]

The aggy law school has become the 45th ranked best law school in the country according to the widely discredited USN&WR. Mind you, aggy has only had a law school since 2012. 
 

Texas A&M Law now ranks 46 nationally among law schools, according to U.S. News & World Report's 2023 edition of Best Graduate Schools, released today. Two of the school's programs landed in the top 10 nationally, with Dispute Resolution at No. 4 (first in Texas) and Intellectual Property Law at No.Mar 29, 2022

[dcbc 14,492]

[Bateshorn 9,928]

Middling Law School talk not going away.

 

Boy #2 got a 19K a year merit offer from NC State, which is already cheap as as an out of state school (41k, tuition+room/board-add ons). Shits scrambled. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Bateshorn

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

5 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Middling Law School talk not going away.

 

Boy #2 got a 19K a year merit offer from NC State, which is already cheap as as an out of state school (39k, tuition+room/board-add ons). Shits scrambled. 

NC State has always been a bargain.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,515]

Im shocked how men are underperforming so much educationally now. Women make up 60% of the college students.

I assume expectations for many young men is that they will figure something out. I don’t believe college=success, but not going to college starts to narrow options. With a degree you can still do anything that the non-college grad can do, but the opposite isn’t true.

[South Austin 52,523]

10 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Boy #2 got a 19K a year merit offer from NC State, which is already cheap as as an out of state school (41k, tuition+room/board-add ons). Shits scrambled. 

 

10 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

NC State has always been a bargain.  

I went to N.C. State my first two years (1992-1994). I think my in-state annual tuition was about $1k. $41k for full freight, even out of state, blows my mind.

And a ton of my friends there were from the northeast, because the out-of-state tuition was a fraction of in-state or private schools in their area. 

And Raleigh is a great town.

[South Austin 52,523]

45 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Im shocked how men are underperforming so much educationally now. Women make up 60% of the college students.

I assume expectations for many young men is that they will figure something out. I don’t believe college=success, but not going to college starts to narrow options. With a degree you can still do anything that the non-college grad can do, but the opposite isn’t true.

There’s been a lot written about this issue. Here are a couple articles. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hechingerreport.org/the-pandemic-is-speeding-up-the-mass-disappearance-of-men-from-college/

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/young-men-college-decline-gender-gap-higher-education/620066/

[Not a cat 5,660]

There's something they call golden penis syndrome on campuses.  If there are only 40% males on campus, then the whole dating dynamic gets shifted and the top males are swimming in options. 

I noticed it when I visited my freshman daughter and commented on it.  Well not on the guys having golden penises, just on the fact that I saw 2 girls for every guy walking around.  She said it's compounded by the fact that many of the male students are international and that means they are there to study, get a degree and go back home.  Socialization and intermingling with fellow students is not on the agenda.

[Captainant 27,682]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Im shocked how men are underperforming so much educationally now. Women make up 60% of the college students.

I assume expectations for many young men is that they will figure something out. I don’t believe college=success, but not going to college starts to narrow options. With a degree you can still do anything that the non-college grad can do, but the opposite isn’t true.

I think there's a changing mindset around the value of higher education. Is it worth being crippled with debt for the rest of your life only to secure a coveted $30k/yr job? Granted, those problems don't tend to exist with STEM degrees, but higher education is supposed to be about education, not free job training for your future employer.

[Bateshorn 9,928]

31 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

There's something they call golden penis syndrome on campuses.  If there are only 40% males on campus, then the whole dating dynamic gets shifted and the top males are swimming in options. 

I noticed it when I visited my freshman daughter and commented on it.  Well not on the guys having golden penises, just on the fact that I saw 2 girls for every guy walking around.  She said it's compounded by the fact that many of the male students are international and that means they are there to study, get a degree and go back home.  Socialization and intermingling with fellow students is not on the agenda.

It’s a big problem.  As my wife puts it, if you actually like the D, you have to put up with some terrible dating dynamics in college, otherwise you could just go to Bryn Mawr. 

21 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think there's a changing mindset around the value of higher education. Is it worth being crippled with debt for the rest of your life only to secure a coveted $30k/yr job? Granted, those problems don't tend to exist with STEM degrees, but higher education is supposed to be about education, not free job training for your future employer.

I know this website is a lot of engineers and STEM majors, but there are a lot of jobs that require/need liberal arts education.  The ability to write is an incredibly valuable skill, and one that is hard to find. I have to deal with a lot of people with terrible writing skills.  It’s core function of my job. 

[Js1 85,447]

4 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

It’s a big problem.  As my wife puts it, if you actually like the D, you have to put up with some terrible dating dynamics in college, otherwise you could just go to Bryn Mawr. 

I know this website is a lot of engineers and STEM majors, but there are a lot of jobs that require/need liberal arts education.  The ability to write is an incredibly valuable skill, and one that is hard to find. I have to deal with a lot of people with terrible writing skills.  It’s core function of my job. 

The amount of people who can’t write well or think critically in the work place boggles the mind. 

[Pancho 44,865]

29 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think there's a changing mindset around the value of higher education. Is it worth being crippled with debt for the rest of your life only to secure a coveted $30k/yr job? Granted, those problems don't tend to exist with STEM degrees, but higher education is supposed to be about education, not free job training for your future employer.

In regards to the lack of males in higher ed today, I think you’re trying to give men too much credit.  I teach at one of the largest community colleges in the country (the largest in Texas) and can tell you it’s not that complicated—men just don’t want to be in the classroom.  There’s a small segment who can comprehend that even workforce degrees can give them a future, but on the whole it’s just really simple: a larger portion of men think they don’t need college or just don’t want to do the work in college because they believe they can make it as a rapper, YouTube star, or they would rather play video games (which is the #1 answer over the last 3 years from men I have to have the “come to Jesus” convo with because they are about to fail my class).

Women students understand the debt thing better and they also know how to navigate this and the value of a degree.  Most of my male students are just, well, lazy.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,515]

1 hour ago, Not a cat said:

There's something they call golden penis syndrome on campuses.  If there are only 40% males on campus, then the whole dating dynamic gets shifted and the top males are swimming in options. 

I noticed it when I visited my freshman daughter and commented on it.  Well not on the guys having golden penises, just on the fact that I saw 2 girls for every guy walking around.  She said it's compounded by the fact that many of the male students are international and that means they are there to study, get a degree and go back home.  Socialization and intermingling with fellow students is not on the agenda.

Women almost universally want men of equal or greater status in terms of education, career AND money. Add that now there are fewer opportunities to meet male co-workers (work from home), and we will continue to see women struggling and complaining that they can't find men or get them to commit.  They won't understand why the 6'5" guy with the $300K exec job won't choose them over the 40 other women that are hitting him up at 11pm every night.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,209]

18 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

They won't understand why the 6'5" guy with the $300K exec job won't choose them over the 40 other women that are hitting him up at 11pm every night.

That goes down to 6'2" for those of us blessed with a strong dick game.

Fact.

[Cap33 384]

For those of you who have been through the admissions process recently, what advice do you have about hiring a private admissions counselor? I have many friends on both sides of the issue. The ones who strongly advocate for doing it mostly sent kids to private schools. My oldest is a sophomore and wants to go to school in the south with football, greek life, etc. Obviously, we'll do the SAT/ACT prep, but I'm questioning the value of paying someone to help apply to mostly state schools.  Thoughts?

And about the golden penis syndrome, the NYT had a story several years ago about how fucked up dating life was at UNC Chapel Hill. Girls outnumbered guys sometimes 3:1 at parties. Guys acted like assholes, and the girls' competition with one another went to a whole new level. 

Finally, 

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

The amount of people who can’t write well or think critically in the work place boggles the mind.

1000% this.  The junior lawyers I manage who can't write clearly or be bothered to proofread and edit their shit really piss me off.  How they get out of undergrad and law school without these skills is beyond me. 

[Surly Bevo 25,084]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

In regards to the lack of males in higher ed today, I think you’re trying to give men too much credit.  I teach at one of the largest community colleges in the country (the largest in Texas) and can tell you it’s not that complicated—men just don’t want to be in the classroom.  There’s a small segment who can comprehend that even workforce degrees can give them a future, but on the whole it’s just really simple: a larger portion of men think they don’t need college or just don’t want to do the work in college because they believe they can make it as a rapper, YouTube star, or they would rather play video games (which is the #1 answer over the last 3 years from men I have to have the “come to Jesus” convo with because they are about to fail my class).

Women students understand the debt thing better and they also know how to navigate this and the value of a degree.  Most of my male students are just, well, lazy.

Lotta Clevons out there....

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3,868]

On 4/8/2022 at 2:21 PM, TwiceHorn said:

I don't recall any Elis while I was there, or many if any Harvard men/women.  But the Princetonians did alright.

Is the V&E prom still a thing or did COVID kill it? We never made the trek while we were in the Midwest.

[Brisketexan 105,164]

For those of you who have been through the admissions process recently, what advice do you have about hiring a private admissions counselor? I have many friends on both sides of the issue. The ones who strongly advocate for doing it mostly sent kids to private schools. My oldest is a sophomore and wants to go to school in the south with football, greek life, etc. Obviously, we'll do the SAT/ACT prep, but I'm questioning the value of paying someone to help apply to mostly state schools.  Thoughts?
And about the golden penis syndrome, the NYT had a story several years ago about how fucked up dating life was at UNC Chapel Hill. Girls outnumbered guys sometimes 3:1 at parties. Guys acted like assholes, and the girls' competition with one another went to a whole new level. 
Finally, 
1000% this.  The junior lawyers I manage who can't write clearly or be bothered to proofread and edit their shit really piss me off.  How they get out of undergrad and law school without these skills is beyond me. 

I taught legal research and writing as a TQ at UT law nearly 30 years ago. To train us before the school year started, they had us review memo samples from “provisional” students - people who got into UT, but had taken some sort of summer prep course where they did some practice writing.
I remember reading two memos and then asking our lead instructor if these people were really admitted to law school, and if so, can we revoke it? I was writing better than that freshman year of high school, and I’m not exaggerating. They were AWFUL. Incoherent, full of bad grammar, spelling, and punctuation.
Then, I started practicing law, and read a few opposing briefs that were similarly terrible. It made me realize that no matter how much I shoulda doubt myself or my abilities, I was at least a damned good writer….or at least I was way better than the multitude of shitty writers out there. I realized that writing is a skill that has to be developed by lots of practice AND good teachers and editors (of which I had many over the years).
A whole lot more jobs than you might think require good written communication skills, whether it’s instructions to subordinates or reports/requests to superiors. If we fail to prep people to do so with competence, we are setting them up to fail.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3,868]

30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I taught legal research and writing as a TQ at UT law nearly 30 years ago. To train us before the school year started, they had us review memo samples from “provisional” students - people who got into UT, but had taken some sort of summer prep course where they did some practice writing.
I remember reading two memos and then asking our lead instructor if these people were really admitted to law school, and if so, can we revoke it? I was writing better than that freshman year of high school, and I’m not exaggerating. They were AWFUL. Incoherent, full of bad grammar, spelling, and punctuation.
Then, I started practicing law, and read a few opposing briefs that were similarly terrible. It made me realize that no matter how much I shoulda doubt myself or my abilities, I was at least a damned good writer….or at least I was way better than the multitude of shitty writers out there. I realized that writing is a skill that has to be developed by lots of practice AND good teachers and editors (of which I had many over the years).
A whole lot more jobs than you might think require good written communication skills, whether it’s instructions to subordinates or reports/requests to superiors. If we fail to prep people to do so with competence, we are setting them up to fail.

This gets to the story I've told before of an Exxon exec friend of my parents that hired English majors over business majors because it was easier to teach English majors business than it was teaching business majors how to write.

[Bateshorn 9,928]

Years ago we passed on a well connected Hill staffer because they bombed the writing sample. We hired a young woman out of college who could write, with little political experience.  I knew we could train her up.
 

She’s in management now because she also excels at that, but first and foremost, we need strong communication skills.  She was also exceptionally easy on the eyes (no pics, cause I don’t want to get fired).

[South Austin 52,523]

1 hour ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

Is the V&E prom still a thing or did COVID kill it? We never made the trek while we were in the Midwest.

I went in 2017 when they invited alumni, which they do every 5 years or so. It’s still a damn good party.

[Guest Lobo]

What the hell is the V&E Prom?  or is it one of those things I don't wanna know?  I assume we're talking about the law firm that I've used for 15 years?  

Is it like a cult that drinks blood?  Or?  

[Sawbonz 27,580]

3 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

It’s a big problem.  As my wife puts it, if you actually like the D, you have to put up with some terrible dating dynamics in college, otherwise you could just go to Bryn Mawr. 

I know this website is a lot of engineers and STEM majors, but there are a lot of jobs that require/need liberal arts education.  The ability to write is an incredibly valuable skill, and one that is hard to find. I have to deal with a lot of people with terrible writing skills.  It’s core function of my job. 

[Bateshorn 9,928]

2 hours ago, Cap33 said:

For those of you who have been through the admissions process recently, what advice do you have about hiring a private admissions counselor? I have many friends on both sides of the issue. The ones who strongly advocate for doing it mostly sent kids to private schools. My oldest is a sophomore and wants to go to school in the south with football, greek life, etc. Obviously, we'll do the SAT/ACT prep, but I'm questioning the value of paying someone to help apply to mostly state schools.  Thoughts?

And about the golden penis syndrome, the NYT had a story several years ago about how fucked up dating life was at UNC Chapel Hill. Girls outnumbered guys sometimes 3:1 at parties. Guys acted like assholes, and the girls' competition with one another went to a whole new level. 

A guy from my HS went to Sarah Lawerence in the early 90s.  He was in multiple open relationships when he came home for Xmas his freshman year.  It was like 8-1 ratio.  The ratio was so bad that the straight girls who wanted dick didn’t care if they had to share.
 

Assuming you aren’t talking Varsity Blues, consultants, IMHO, do two things: the hard work of crawling the sub rankings, programmatic strengths, lurking College Confidential to get a sense of accepts/rejects, as well working your High Schools Naviance. From there they develop a tiered list of schools which is realistic.  We all want to think our kid can go to Princeton or Stanford.  But they almost certainly won’t. The hard part is being honest and developing a list of Matches and Reaches that meet your child’s needs and you can actually get into. Then developing an application that will “stick” on the admissions table.
 

They also work as essay consultants.  Depending on how much they cost, that can be anything from light editing and creation brainstorming, to more or less writing your kids essay.  And the Essays are so important.  AO’s read thousand and thousands of terrible essays.  Tired takes on a trip to Europe, or building houses in Appalachia.  A thoughtful, well written essay is the golden ticket to getting to the final admissions round and charming your regional AO to fight for your application when the tough decisions are being made. 
 

The SAT/ACT thing, imo, is mostly about practice and test taking technique.  I think with a couple of guide books and dedication you can jump your score pretty dramatically. Two things:

1. Have your kid take a practice  test of each kind and see if they have a preference, then focus on that.  Don’t just do the SAT because that’s what you did. 

2. if Money is tight, there is free SAT online prep, officially sanctioned by the College Board, on Kahn Academy.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Bateshorn