2022 Houston Astros Thread

[WBT 20899]

Richie Sexson comes to mind as a guy at a similar height, although he is listed at something like 40 lbs lighter.  His wRC+ by age:

22 - 39, 23 - 137, 24 - 98, 25 - 110, 26 - 124, 27 - 126, 28 - 138, 29 - 126, 30 - 144, 31 - 117, 32 - 84, 33 - 92, end of career

[WBT 20899]

Honestly, I'll have the same kind of concerns about Yordan and the end of his current deal.  The extension he signed goes through his age 31 season.

[kevwun 16366]

Yeah unfortunately.  He's had several nagging injuries and already has bad knees. 

[UTexasFight 9790]

15 minutes ago, WBT said:

Richie Sexson comes to mind as a guy at a similar height, although he is listed at something like 40 lbs lighter.  His wRC+ by age:

 

Ahhh, Richie “longest triple in MLB history” Sexson.

 

God Bless the Tal’s Hill flagpole 

[Wulaw Horn 19563]

1 minute ago, UTexasFight said:

Ahhh, Richie “longest triple in MLB history” Sexson.

 

God Bless the Tal’s Hill flagpole 

That blew my fucking mind when it happened. I actually saw it live.  

[Gourmand 7778]

38 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I just don't see Crane letting Verlander pitch for another team next year.  He will give him whatever it takes.

yeah he's not going anywhere and they both know it.

[Wulaw Horn 19563]

49 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

yeah he's not going anywhere and they both know it.

I mean, if you were ever going to make the argument that a CY Young winner and ace was absolutely positively not necessary to a team the 2022 Astros say hi.  

Even with LMJ injured most of the year and us keeping Brown down in AAA to torture him/the fanbase we didn't need him during the regular season.  Then, in the playoffs he has had 2 starts, 1 was bad and the other was pretty good, but not any better than what Framber or Javier did, and likely about what one might have expected from Garcia/Brown/Urquidy.  Maybe a little better than that quality- maybe not.  It was only one run but it looked really shaky.  Would you feel like we had the pitching advantage in the WS if we went Framber/Javier/LMJ/Garcia with Brown and Urquidy around for tandem and length type shit and this bullpen that can't even get meaningful innings to a guy with a 1.2 ERA during the regular season, all in leverage situations?  I for sure as shit would still consider that staff to be a huge advantage over our opponent. It's literally fucking stupid how good this staff has been.

If they wanted to take that money and sign Abreu  (3/48) and Nimmo (5/125).  That would be $41M for those two per year. I assume that's right what JV is looking at getting.  Is the team probably better, going forward for the next 3 years with Abreu and Nimmo and without JV?  Yeah.  Probably. Maybe?  I have no idea. 
 

But this run is just otherworldly man. The last 6 years.  This season.  These playoffs. Really want this title so badly right now.  Would love to see JV back- but not if it constrains everything we'd like to do with payroll.  This is going to be a fascinating off season. I hope that's the first domino to fall one way or another so we have clarity on what we need to do. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Wulaw Horn

[Gut Wagon 8214]

1 hour ago, WBT said:

Honestly, I'll have the same kind of concerns about Yordan and the end of his current deal.  The extension he signed goes through his age 31 season.

Hopefully not. Willie McCovey, from whom Yordan of course was cloned, played in the bigs from age 21 to 42. 

[tx 3 putt 78515]

Pretty sure it was chandler rome : asked jv to talk about tomorrow possibly being his last start at Minute Maid 

[kevwun 16366]

Of course it was.  Chandler Rome hates all things good and enjoyable.  He's the grinch come to life.

[IDIOTsavant 8673]

[kevwun 16366]

6 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I mean, if you were ever going to make the argument that a CY Young winner and ace was absolutely positively not necessary to a team the 2022 Astros say hi.  

Even with LMJ injured most of the year and us keeping Brown down in AAA to torture him/the fanbase we didn't need him during the regular season.  Then, in the playoffs he has had 2 starts, 1 was bad and the other was pretty good, but not any better than what Framber or Javier did, and likely about what one might have expected from Garcia/Brown/Urquidy.  Maybe a little better than that quality- maybe not.  It was only one run but it looked really shaky.  Would you feel like we had the pitching advantage in the WS if we went Framber/Javier/LMJ/Garcia with Brown and Urquidy around for tandem and length type shit and this bullpen that can't even get meaningful innings to a guy with a 1.2 ERA during the regular season, all in leverage situations?  I for sure as shit would still consider that staff to be a huge advantage over our opponent. It's literally fucking stupid how good this staff has been.

If they wanted to take that money and sign Abreu  (3/48) and Nimmo (5/125).  That would be $41M for those two per year. I assume that's right what JV is looking at getting.  Is the team probably better, going forward for the next 3 years with Abreu and Nimmo and without JV?  Yeah.  Probably. Maybe?  I have no idea. 
 

But this run is just otherworldly man. The last 6 years.  This season.  These playoffs. Really want this title so badly right now.  Would love to see JV back- but not if it constrains everything we'd like to do with payroll.  This is going to be a fascinating off season. I hope that's the first domino to fall one way or another so we have clarity on what we need to do. 

You can still never have too much pitching.  They can trade Urquidy over the winter and go with a 6 man rotation.  I would have said Garcia before the Seattle game, but his stuff is too good to give up on yet.  I think Urquidy is less likely to make you regret trading him.

Edited October 27, 2022 by kevwun

[UTexasFight 9790]

7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

 

But this run is just otherworldly man. The last 6 years.  This season.  These playoffs. Really want this title so badly right now.  

This. 
Was just telling a buddy something similar today…

That we all need to step back and meditate for 6 hours today on “6 ALCS’ in 6 years”

That is so easy to take for granted  ow and the comedown from that high whenever it happens is going to be brutal (hopefully another 6 years from now at least).

[runthebone 8325]

All time winningest Astros World Series pitcher Jose Urquidy!!!

[henrygandorf 29225]

 

[Wulaw Horn 19563]

6 minutes ago, kevwun said:

You can still never have too much pitching.  They can trade Urquidy over the winter and go with a 6 man rotation.  I would have said Garcia before the Seattle game, but his stuff is too good to give up on yet.  I think Urquidy is less likely to make you regret trading him.

I have no idea how much value Urquidy has.  I would want an impact player from him or a couple really solid prospects and I don't know if he's good enough for a good team to give that up, and I don't know why any bad team would have any interest in him.  He's an upper middle class teams #4 starter.  What's that worth?  I have no idea.  Baltimore probably makes a lot of sense, especially now that Camden went from a bandbox to jellystone national park. Maybe they have a couple solid prospects that are blocked? It makes my head hurt and the return on trading Urquidy would probably piss me off as I'd probably think it's too light. I don't want to lose any of those guys, but I also don't ever want to sit through another post season with a DH that can't hit water falling from a boat, or experience another year with a 1B with an 82 wRC+  The fact of the matter is, though, that there are probably more redundant parts in the pitching staff than what you actually need. Which is an amazing fucking accomplishment in baseball b/c that 162 game season is a fucking meat grinder.  This team is so special. I think, regardless of what happens with JV, they are going to continue to be special for at least 3 more years before the choices really get difficult.  

[Wulaw Horn 19563]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

 

That would make me hard. The only guy I'd rather have is JL and that bridge is undoubtedly burned.  Either him or Sid M. and I feel real real comfortable.  

[kevwun 16366]

He was a key part of the build up and has none of the stink of the scandal because he left in 2015.  That's a pretty ideal resume.

Edited October 27, 2022 by kevwun

[Dondrysdale1 379]

3 minutes ago, kevwun said:

He was a key part of the build up and has none of the stink of the scandal because he left in 2015.  That's a pretty ideal resume.

Is he the guys the Brewers players were mad at for not adding when they still were in it at the deadline? He traded away Hader and killed the clubhouse. I know click wasn’t super active but he did try to make some moves to improve the club.

[WBT 20899]

Stearns would be great.  I'd also be thrilled with Elias but reading between the lines I'm not sure he was a big fan of Crane.  Sig would be good too and easier to get since he's not currently the top guy.

It's funny that I'm not really sure what to think of Click as a gm and he's been in the job two years.  More than anything, I think that just shows how set up for success that Luhnow had us.  Click seems to have mostly just not rocked the boat.  I guess the fact that you can't point to any big moves is somewhat of an indictment.  And it's really too early to say whether he's made a difference on the player development side, good or bad.

Crane would definitely be in for another round of bad pr if he lets Click go though.  All he's done is make the ALCS every year he's been here and two straight WS.

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by WBT

[tx 3 putt 78515]

Dusty told the practice squad players that pena was in their position last year and any of them could be the next pena in 2023 

[kevwun 16366]

I think Click has a good eye for bullpen arms but most everything else was not fucking things up, which shouldn't be totally dismissed because there are gm's who would have come in and tried to leave their mark on the franchise and screwed it up.  I think he isn't aggressive enough for Crane and I don't think they get along very well in general.  I don't care what the press thinks.  The players love playing here and Crane helped create that environment.

Edited October 27, 2022 by kevwun

[TonyTexas 10685]

A Stearns/Espada ticket in 2023 is gaining momentum in the early primaries. 

[Wulaw Horn 19563]

9 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I think Click has a good eye for bullpen arms but most everything else was not fucking things up, which shouldn't be dismissed because there are gm's who would have come in and tried to leave their mark on the franchise and screwed it up.

He's got a middle reliever fetish and he's not afraid to fly his freak flag and give your 4th leverage guy an 8.5M a year contract, I will say that for him.  But yeah- not screwing anything up shouldn't be underestimated I guess b/c there are guys with a big enough ego and that are big enough dipshits that they would screw that up I suppose.

[kevwun 16366]

If Stearns is a done deal, that explains some things.  When Click was the source for the article bitching about how meddlesome Crane is was probably when he found out he wasn't coming back next year.  I thought at the time that was a pretty harsh article if he was planning on being in Houston next year.

[Starfleet Command 441]

23 minutes ago, WBT said:

Stearns would be great.  I'd also be thrilled with Elias but reading between the lines I'm not sure he was a big fan of Crane.  Sig would be good too and easier to get since he's not currently the top guy.

It's funny that I'm not really sure what to think of Click as a gm and he's been in the job two years.  More than anything, I think that just shows how set up for success that Luhnow had us.  Click seems to have mostly just not rocked the boat.  I guess the fact that you can't point to any big moves is somewhat of an indictment.  And it's really too early to say whether he's made a difference on the player development side, good or bad.

Crane would definitely be in for another round of bad pr if he lets Click go though.  All he's done is make the ALCS every year he's been here and two straight WS.

 

Yeah, it's too early to really judge him as a GM.  His first draft sucked but this year's looks promising.  I have hard time understanding the smoke surrounding his job, as it's very difficult for me to see Click being given the boot this early based on his performance.  There must be something else going on that hasn't gotten to the public yet.

[HtownHorn 15243]

50 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I mean, if you were ever going to make the argument that a CY Young winner and ace was absolutely positively not necessary to a team the 2022 Astros say hi.  

Even with LMJ injured most of the year and us keeping Brown down in AAA to torture him/the fanbase we didn't need him during the regular season.  Then, in the playoffs he has had 2 starts, 1 was bad and the other was pretty good, but not any better than what Framber or Javier did, and likely about what one might have expected from Garcia/Brown/Urquidy.  Maybe a little better than that quality- maybe not.  It was only one run but it looked really shaky.  Would you feel like we had the pitching advantage in the WS if we went Framber/Javier/LMJ/Garcia with Brown and Urquidy around for tandem and length type shit and this bullpen that can't even get meaningful innings to a guy with a 1.2 ERA during the regular season, all in leverage situations?  I for sure as shit would still consider that staff to be a huge advantage over our opponent. It's literally fucking stupid how good this staff has been.

If they wanted to take that money and sign Abreu  (3/48) and Nimmo (5/125).  That would be $41M for those two per year. I assume that's right what JV is looking at getting.  Is the team probably better, going forward for the next 3 years with Abreu and Nimmo and without JV?  Yeah.  Probably. Maybe?  I have no idea. 
 

But this run is just otherworldly man. The last 6 years.  This season.  These playoffs. Really want this title so badly right now.  Would love to see JV back- but not if it constrains everything we'd like to do with payroll.  This is going to be a fascinating off season. I hope that's the first domino to fall one way or another so we have clarity on what we need to do. 

Don't forget that Bregman's contract jumps up next year, so he's going to eat into most of JV's savings. I know you like Abreu, but his ability to hit the FB is getting really bad. 2020 he had a wFB of 9.8, 2021 it was -0.2 and this year it was 0.5, that is not a good sign. His BB% also dropped 2 percentage points from his career high in 2021. Finally, while he's not a butcher with the glove, he's not a good defensive 1B. Brandon Belt would be a much better signing than Abreu. I really like Nimmo, he'd be a great Brantley replacement. adding two lefties would really help balance the lineup.

[HtownHorn 15243]

29 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I think Click has a good eye for bullpen arms but most everything else was not fucking things up, which shouldn't be totally dismissed because there are gm's who would have come in and tried to leave their mark on the franchise and screwed it up.  I think he isn't aggressive enough for Crane and I don't think they get along very well in general.  I don't care what the press thinks.  The players love playing here and Crane helped create that environment.

That makes sense considering Tampa consistently takes shitty middle relievers and changes something and they become unhittable.

[Wulaw Horn 19563]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

Don't forget that Bregman's contract jumps up next year, so he's going to eat into most of JV's savings. I know you like Abreu, but his ability to hit the FB is getting really bad. 2020 he had a wFB of 9.8, 2021 it was -0.2 and this year it was 0.5, that is not a good sign. His BB% also dropped 2 percentage points from his career high in 2021. Finally, while he's not a butcher with the glove, he's not a good defensive 1B. Brandon Belt would be a much better signing than Abreu. I really like Nimmo, he'd be a great Brantley replacement. adding two lefties would really help balance the lineup.

Belt would be fine.  I mean, Abreu has been a better player than them for their respective careers but I don't know what the decline for either of them is going to look like.

Bregman's contract is 20M for LT purposes and always has been.  That's the figure I use so there's no "jump" in my mind.  When Crane gave him the extension he should have had that priced into the budget in a 5 year sense with pen- he can't cry poor b/c the known raise went in when the entire point of the thing was to level it out and save LT payroll money on the back end and shove that into Bregman's arb years. I mean, I guess he can do that, but it's a pretty dickish thing to do and low key would piss me off if we let JV, Uncle Mike, Yuli, Montero, Castro and Maton (a girl can dream and this is my dream for the offseason) walk on out the door with 65M in salary and don't sign 2 impact bats (impact bat doesn't mean all star for me- it's just a good solid 110-130 type wRC+ guy) to mix it up. 

But, that's all offseason stuff for now and I'd be a lot happier knowing Stearns was making the call than Click.  Who I mean no offense to. He's probably a good GM.  He would be a real upgrade I bet for a place like KC or Colorado or AZ. 

[Wulaw Horn 19563]

11 minutes ago, Starfleet Command said:

Yeah, it's too early to really judge him as a GM.  His first draft sucked but this year's looks promising.  I have hard time understanding the smoke surrounding his job, as it's very difficult for me to see Click being given the boot this early based on his performance.  There must be something else going on that hasn't gotten to the public yet.

Don't think of it as being given the boot for performance, think of it as not extending the contract b/c you have someone else you have more chemistry/history/experience with. 

[tx 3 putt 78515]

The field is ready …

 

[HtownHorn 15243]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Belt would be fine.  I mean, Abreu has been a better player than them for their respective careers but I don't know what the decline for either of them is going to look like.

Bregman's contract is 20M for LT purposes and always has been.  That's the figure I use so there's no "jump" in my mind.  When Crane gave him the extension he should have had that priced into the budget in a 5 year sense with pen- he can't cry poor b/c the known raise went in when the entire point of the thing was to level it out and save LT payroll money on the back end and shove that into Bregman's arb years. I mean, I guess he can do that, but it's a pretty dickish thing to do and low key would piss me off if we let JV, Uncle Mike, Yuli, Montero, Castro and Maton (a girl can dream and this is my dream for the offseason) walk on out the door with 65M in salary and don't sign 2 impact bats (impact bat doesn't mean all star for me- it's just a good solid 110-130 type wRC+ guy) to mix it up. 

But, that's all offseason stuff for now and I'd be a lot happier knowing Stearns was making the call than Click.  Who I mean no offense to. He's probably a good GM.  He would be a real upgrade I bet for a place like KC or Colorado or AZ. 

Plus, we both agree that if Urquidy could bring back Varsho we'd both rejoice. Hell, I would include 2 or 3 of our 3rd tier relief pitchers to make that deal. Martinez, Bielak, Mishinski, Maton, and Taylor.

[WBT 20899]

5 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

The field is ready …

 

needs more bunting

[tx 3 putt 78515]

6 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Plus, we both agree that if Urquidy could bring back Varsho we'd both rejoice. Hell, I would include 2 or 3 of our 3rd tier relief pitchers to make that deal. Martinez, Bielak, Mishinski, Maton, and Taylor.

you’re crazy, this isn’t worth two mlb pitchers …

AB	AVG	HR	RBI	SB	OPS
916	.234	41	121	25	.738

Edited October 27, 2022 by tx 3 putt

[Wulaw Horn 19563]

10 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Plus, we both agree that if Urquidy could bring back Varsho we'd both rejoice. Hell, I would include 2 or 3 of our 3rd tier relief pitchers to make that deal. Martinez, Bielak, Mishinski, Maton, and Taylor.

Ha.  Urquidy, Maton, Martinez, Bielak and Taylor for Varsho.  That would probably give the Diamondback about 350 innings of better than league average pitching for the cost of $10M.  That's like 25% of the total innings they'd need for the year.  No way that's not league average when all put together, right? And we could lose all those guys without even coming close to blinking an eye.  I have no idea if they'd be interested in doing that.  That's a 5 WAR player (although that's as much for being a circus freak with C and CF as anything as his OPS is "only 110") making nothing going out, and that's 20 years of club control non-ace but decent arms coming back.  That's a hard one to me.  I'm sure someone else would say I'm stupid and it's obvious and maybe it should be, but not to my brain I guess.   

[Guadaloopy 11126]

Big moves by Click impacting the 2022 season:

• Re-signing JV & Brantley 
• Extending LMJ, Alvarez, & Pressly  
• Trading for Montero & Maton in '21, Vazquez, Mancini, & Smith in '22  
• Signing Stanek ('21) & Neris ('22)

His best work is in the bullpen, obviously.  You can say that Crane is the driver of the re-signings and extensions.  But you can't deny 3 trips to the ALCS in three seasons.   

 

[kevwun 16366]

The bullpen is the one are where I think he's clearly better than Luhnow.  The bullpen over the last year and a half is much better than it was at any point in Luhnow's tenure.  It was downright scary in the playoffs for some of those years when the starter went out of the game.

Edited October 27, 2022 by kevwun

[tx 3 putt 78515]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I have no idea how much value Urquidy has.

 

philies radio guy just told 790, philies will probably throw a bp game for #4. they hope to win 4 games with nola and wheeler, it doesn't matter which 4 games. I'd say that urquidy would be a #3 or 4 starter with many teams. 

 

yuli was popular today ...

Edited October 27, 2022 by tx 3 putt

[MAROON 446]

4 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i think he empowers the analytics guys in the front office to be a part of the decision making, but that's as close as it gets.

yeah, he weighs in on trades and signings, most of which involve money, which owners typically have a say in.

As you said.  There is not a trade or free agent signing that Crane has not personally approved.  None happen unless he said yes

and while he might have wanted Correa, he wasn’t going to pay crazy money. 

[tx 3 putt 78515]

 

[rvm96 1643]

47 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Big moves by Click impacting the 2022 season:

• Re-signing JV & Brantley 
• Extending LMJ, Alvarez, & Pressly  
• Trading for Montero & Maton in '21, Vazquez, Mancini, & Smith in '22  
• Signing Stanek ('21) & Neris ('22)

His best work is in the bullpen, obviously.  You can say that Crane is the driver of the re-signings and extensions.  But you can't deny 3 trips to the ALCS in three seasons.   

 

No mention of Pedro Baez or Odorizzi?

[henrygandorf 29225]

 

[TonyTexas 10685]

I guess brain drain should expected because of the Astros success but it gets tiring. 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by TonyTexas

[The Dog 44790]

55 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

 

Context: (SIAP)

 

[dr99 566]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

philies radio guy just told 790, philies will probably throw a bp game for #4. they hope to win 4 games with nola and wheeler, it doesn't matter which 4 games.

So they are using the Nationals playbook against the Astros. Maybe Nola will fake neck spasms to pitch game 7.

[Alien Octopus 632]

2 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Don't forget that Bregman's contract jumps up next year, so he's going to eat into most of JV's savings. I know you like Abreu, but his ability to hit the FB is getting really bad. 2020 he had a wFB of 9.8, 2021 it was -0.2 and this year it was 0.5, that is not a good sign. His BB% also dropped 2 percentage points from his career high in 2021. Finally, while he's not a butcher with the glove, he's not a good defensive 1B. Brandon Belt would be a much better signing than Abreu. I really like Nimmo, he'd be a great Brantley replacement. adding two lefties would really help balance the lineup.

Rizzo Available

[TonyTexas 10685]

7 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

I really like Nimmo, he'd be a great Brantley replacement. adding two lefties would really help balance the lineup.

I like him too but is he worth this?

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by TonyTexas

[henrygandorf 29225]

 

[HtownHorn 15243]

27 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

Rizzo Available

If he opts out, I would be all for that signing.

[Wulaw Horn 19563]

2 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

philies radio guy just told 790, philies will probably throw a bp game for #4. they hope to win 4 games with nola and wheeler, it doesn't matter which 4 games. I'd say that urquidy would be a #3 or 4 starter with many teams. 

 

yuli was popular today ...

Yeah. He’s not good enough for the Dodgers or Astros rotation unless things go wrong in the playoffs. He’s probably starting a game for Cleveland and Seattle and Toronto in a best of 7 but not in a best of 5. 
but- he’s not a guy they are going to pencil in for 6 innings- it’s a be ready for the bullpen, I think.