2022 MLB thread

[shadow_operative2.0 15834]

Sheesh, now that 1B popup is back to a double. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

the yankees lead baseball with 16 shutouts. they have one of the most ridiculous bullpens i've ever seen. judge has lineup mates like anthony rizzo, giancarlo stanton, dj lemahieu, hell even gleyber has an ops over .800. the yankees *should* be the best team in baseball, because they have the best assembly of talent in baseball. being the best player on the first place team is not a reason to win mvp. let judge and shohei switch teams and then you'll see an mvp race that's "not even close". 

also, shohei is judge's equal as a hitter, while also being equal to/better than gerrit cole on the mound. he's also great on the base paths. that sounds like an mvp to me.

[ztejas 43266]

9 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

shohei is judge's equal as a hitter,

Not sure I agree with that. He was certainly his equal last season - but Judge has definitely been better at the plate this year and has a longer track record of being this good.

But I don't see any reason why Shohei shouldn't win it again. Maybe if his numbers really dip at the plate and someone else gets crazy hot they could nudge him. 

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

And Yordan is not doing what Judge is doing. Judge plays serviceable centerfield defense, Yordan can’t do anything other than swing a bat.

That’s cool, but he’s swinging a bat 25% better than Judge to this point. So one might also say that Judge isn’t doing what Yordan is doing. 

[shadow_operative2.0 15834]

 

 

[Sbbruin 21737]

Mookie with his 2nd HR of the night.  20th on the year.  Reports of his demise have been greatly exaggerated.

[Sbbruin 21737]

Kimbrel almost blows another, gets yanked, Dodgers win.  Gonzo 11-0 with a 1.62 ERA.  No way he’s not the AS game starter for the NL.  At Dodger Stadium.  Awesome.

[shadow_operative 15932]

3 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Kimbrel almost blows another, gets yanked, Dodgers win.  Gonzo 11-0 with a 1.62 ERA.  No way he’s not the AS game starter for the NL.  At Dodger Stadium.  Awesome.

Pitcher A: 17 GS, 106.1 IP, 2.20 era, 0.89 whip, 26 ER, 134 k, 5.8 h/9, 11.3 k/9, 2.99 FIP, 5.5 k/bb

 

Pitcher B: 17 GS, 123.1 IP, 1.82 era, 0.90 whip, 25 ER, 107 k, 6.0 h/9, 7.8 k/9, 2.86 FIP, 3.57 k/bb

 

Pitcher 😄 17 GS, 111.1 IP, 3.15 era, 0.92 WHIP, 39 ER, 120 k, 7.1 H/9, 9.7 k/9, 2.92 FIP, 1.2 BB/9, 8.00 k/bb 

 

Pitcher 😧 17 GS, 107.1 IP, 2.52 era, 1.02 whip, 30 ER, 100 k, 7.8 h/9, 8.4 k/9, 2.50 FIP, 5.88 k/bb

 

Pitcher E: 15 GS, 81.2 IP, 1.54 era, 0.82 whip, 14 ER, 77 k, 4.8 h/9, 8.5 k/9, FIP 3.29, 3.35 k/bb

 

first, it's really hard for me to say that any one of these guys "definitely" deserves to start the all star game. second, if o did rank these guys, your boy would be 3rd at best, more likely 4th out of these guys.

 

[Sbbruin 21737]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Pitcher A: 17 GS, 106.1 IP, 2.20 era, 0.89 whip, 26 ER, 134 k, 5.8 h/9, 11.3 k/9, 2.99 FIP, 5.5 k/bb

 

Pitcher B: 17 GS, 123.1 IP, 1.82 era, 0.90 whip, 25 ER, 107 k, 6.0 h/9, 7.8 k/9, 2.86 FIP, 3.57 k/bb

 

Pitcher 😄 17 GS, 111.1 IP, 3.15 era, 0.92 WHIP, 39 ER, 120 k, 7.1 H/9, 9.7 k/9, 2.92 FIP, 1.2 BB/9, 8.00 k/bb 

 

Pitcher 😧 17 GS, 107.1 IP, 2.52 era, 1.02 whip, 30 ER, 100 k, 7.8 h/9, 8.4 k/9, 2.50 FIP, 5.88 k/bb

 

Pitcher E: 15 GS, 81.2 IP, 1.54 era, 0.82 whip, 14 ER, 77 k, 4.8 h/9, 8.5 k/9, FIP 3.29, 3.35 k/bb

 

first, it's really hard for me to say that any one of these guys "definitely" deserves to start the all star game. second, if o did rank these guys, your boy would be 3rd at best, more likely 4th out of these guys.

 

11-0. 1.62 ERA.  No, there are not two other pitchers who deserve it over that.  That’s just a stupid take.

[miguelito 11219]

"Not even close."

 

😄

[Brew 3047]

2 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

11-0. 1.62 ERA.  No, there are not two other pitchers who deserve it over that.  That’s just a stupid take.

Leads in W’s, leads in ERA, at home, he gets the start. Burnes would be the only one that might jump him because of his arm and potential to strike out the side to open the game. No way Alcantara, Rodin, or Musgrove get the start over him. They could always throw Strider and his 14k’s per 9 out there to open.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Brew

[TonyTexas 10482]

Stark gets it. 

Quote

MLB midseason awards: MVP and LVP, Cy Young and Cy Yuk, and more

Jayson Stark

We made it! We’re halfway through what passes for a normal baseball season. And I don’t know about you, but there was a time in my house, back in the dark February days of Lockout Armageddon, when we wondered if baseball in July would look quite this, um, familiar.

But we got there. Somehow. So since we did, it’s time to hand out those midseason awards you’ve come to know, love and unanimously agree with, from start to finish.

Hard to believe, but once again this year, my little awards bash will not be emceed by Colin Jost, Michael Che, Michael Brantley, Jeff Brantley, Jeff Bridges, Teddy Bridgewater or the cast of “The Shape of Water.” So I’ll just have to hand these out myself. Please hold your applause until you’ve read the entire column … which gives me time to sneak out the back door.

AL MVP of the half-year: Yordan Alvarez, Astros

 Hold on one minute. The American League MVP of the half-year isn’t Aaron Judge? How’d that happen?

I know this is a major violation of my East Coast bias requirements. But a funny thing transpired when I really dug into the incredibly tight race among Judge, José Ramírez, Shohei Ohtani, Mike Trout, Rafael Devers and Air Yordan Alvarez:

The guy I expected to pick (Judge) didn’t turn out to be the guy I’d cast my vote for if the season ended today (which seems unlikely).

SO WHY NOT JUDGE? He’s been fantastic. Of course he has. Heading into Thursday night, he was on pace for 59 homers, a 180 OPS+ and more multi-homer games in a season (12) than any hitter in Yankees history. His willingness to play center field has provided manager Aaron Boone with invaluable roster flexibility. And he has been the focal point of the best offensive team in the sport — not to mention a juggernaut on pace to win more games than any team in Yankees history. Which is not to be confused with, say, San Diego Padres history.

But … has Judge really been more valuable than Yordan Alvarez? Before you say yes, you’d better keep reading:

AIR YORDAN’S GOT GAME: As I type this, Alvarez has a 200 OPS+. If we toss out seasons shortened by strikes and pandemics, no player not tainted by performance-enhancing drugs has had an OPS+ of 200 or better (i.e., at least 100 percent above league average) since George Brett — in 1980. And Brett is the only player who can say that in the last six decades.

But also feel free to take a long look at quality of contact, as measured by Statcast’s Expected Stats metrics.

Entering Thursday night, Alvarez’s Expected Weighted On-Base Average, which measures quality of contact but also factors in walk and strikeout rates, was a ridiculous .491 — which would be the highest ever in the Statcast era. Judge’s .457 is incredible, but it has been done before (by Mike Trout in 2019).

Meanwhile, Judge’s Expected Slugging was at .742. And that’s spectacular. Except Alvarez was at an even more-unfathomable .753. That’s 314 points above league average — a level we’ve never seen since this stat has been recorded (over the last eight seasons).

Now factor in that no qualifying hitter in the Statcast era has ever even gotten to .700 over a full season. That means Aaron Judge is awesome. But Yordan Alvarez is in an orbit nobody should be able to reach without an assist from NASA.

ALVAREZ VS. JUDGE: So after spending hours looking at all of this, I asked myself: How would I justify still handing this prestigious half-trophy to Judge? I had a hard time answering that.

Defense? True, Judge plays the field every day and Alvarez has started just 45 percent of his games in the outfield. But Judge has graded out at minus-2 Defensive Runs Saved, according to Sports Info Solutions, while Alvarez is at plus-3. So only volume and positional adjustments make Judge appear to be the superior defender. But we’re talking about a very small sample.

Offense? Alvarez leads the league in slugging, OPS, position-player bWAR, Win Probability Added and Runs Created per Game. Judge leads the AL in home runs and runs scored — but doesn’t rank above Alvarez in a single significant rate stat.

There is also recency bias. Over the last three weeks (since June 14):

Alvarez: .304/.432/.800/.1.232, 9 HR
Judge: .200/.297/.463/.759, 6 HR

So what’s the defining reason to vote for Judge again? That he’s reached 30 homers already? That he’s more famous? That he has done this under that New York spotlight, in his free-agent walk year? I admire that greatly. It just wasn’t enough — even though I started this process expecting to cast my vote for Judge.

Meanwhile, you have every reason to ask: Hey, what about that Shohei Ohtani guy? I ask that all the time myself, as we watch him do these things never before witnessed in our galaxy. But there’s a reason we vote on these awards, as opposed to just spitting out the Wins Above Replacement leader board and delivering trophies to whatever player ranks first.

I could sum up that reason in one word: Context. There is context to every number on the stat sheet and every data point on the spreadsheet. And when the numbers and data points are close, the context matters more than ever. So I’m not ready to vote for a guy whose team just imploded over Alvarez or Judge, who are firing up the engines on a 100-win express.

I’d still be happy to doff my cap, if I was wearing one, to Ohtani, Trout, Ramirez and Devers for seasons that put them in the thick of this debate — and put them in position to win this award with a monster second half and enough of that all-important context. But as of this moment in time, I can’t put any of them above Air Yordan.

MY TOP 10 (not necessarily in order): Alvarez, Judge, Ramírez, Ohtani, Devers, Trout, Byron Buxton, Julio Rodríguez, Xander Bogaerts, Luis Arraez

 

 

[Helobious 9481]

Stopped reading once he started talking about “expected stats” i.e. make believe hypothetical stats. What a crock of shit. How about judging players based on what they actually do or what the actual results are. 

[TonyTexas 10482]

5 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Stopped reading once he started talking about “expected stats” i.e. make believe hypothetical stats. What a crock of shit. How about judging players based on what they actually do or what the actual results are. 

Helo when an opinion doesn’t fit his narrative 

 

[Smax 3800]

Stopped reading once he started talking about “expected stats” i.e. make believe hypothetical stats. What a crock of shit. How about judging players based on what they actually do or what the actual results are. 

Keep reading dumbass..

[Helobious 9481]

1 minute ago, Smax said:

7 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Stopped reading once he started talking about “expected stats” i.e. make believe hypothetical stats. What a crock of shit. How about judging players based on what they actually do or what the actual results are. 

Keep reading dumbass..

That stuff is useful when youre trying to decide if you want to sign a guy to an extension or put him on your fantasy team and want an idea of possible production. It has no use in trying to decide who an MVP is. MVP should be based an actual results, not expected batting average or barrel % or hard hit rate and shit like that. I can’t believe people are even arguing that. Maybe we should give out NFL MVP to whoever has the fastest 40 time. 

[Beau Vine 54003]

10 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Mookie with his 2nd HR of the night.  20th on the year.  Reports of his demise have been greatly exaggerated.

"demise?"  Everyone knows that Mookie is the best player in the world.  And no one else is even close.  

[Beau Vine 54003]

4 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

11-0. 1.62 ERA.  No, there are not two other pitchers who deserve it over that.  That’s just a stupid take.

I'd like to apologize to Helo for calling you California Helobious.  Even he is not clueless enough to cite pitcher's wins.

[Beau Vine 54003]

14 minutes ago, Helobious said:

That stuff is useful when youre trying to decide if you want to sign a guy to an extension or put him on your fantasy team and want an idea of possible production. It has no use in trying to decide who an MVP is. MVP should be based an actual results, not expected batting average or barrel % or hard hit rate and shit like that.

I agree with this about a billion percent.  WAR shouldn't even be the top criteria because it ignores context.  RE24 or something similar is the the best MVP metric.

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

44 minutes ago, Helobious said:

How about judging players based on what they actually do or what the actual results are. 

Yeah, he got to that. 

Alvarez leads the league in slugging, OPS, position-player bWAR, Win Probability Added and Runs Created per Game. Judge leads the AL in home runs and runs scored — but doesn’t rankabove Alvarez in a single significant rate stat.

[tx 3 putt 76386]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Stopped reading once he started talking about “expected stats” i.e. make believe hypothetical stats. What a crock of shit. 

Drive up that next contract !!!!!!

[Sbbruin 21737]

"demise?"  Everyone knows that Mookie is the best player in the world.  And no one else is even close.  

[WBT 20422]

Mike Brito has died

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2022-07-08/panama-hat-cigar-radar-gun-legendary-scout-mike-brito-dodger-stadium?_amp=true

 

[tx 3 putt 76386]

Dodger legend !

[Beau Vine 54003]

Quote

Sluggers Albert Pujols of the St. Louis Cardinals and Miguel Cabrera of the Detroit Tigers will participate in the 2022 All-Star Game, commissioner Rob Manfred announced Friday.

Pujols, Cabrera and Hall of Famer Hank Aaron are the only players in MLB history to register 3,000 hits, 500 home runs and 600 doubles.

"I am delighted that Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera have agreed to participate in the All-Star Game," Manfred said in a statement. "Albert and Miguel are two of the most accomplished players of their generation. They have also represented the baseball traditions of the Dominican Republic and Venezuela with excellence for the last two decades. Albert and Miguel are two all-time greats whose achievements warrant this special recognition."

2022 MLB All-Star Game

The All-Star Game in Los Angeles is just around the corner. Will your favorite star make it to Hollywood? Full coverage »

 NL & AL roster projections »

Starters revealed: July 8, 7 ET on ESPN
Full rosters: July 10, 5:30 ET on ESPN

It is the 11th All-Star selection for Pujols, who is in his 22nd MLB season. The 42-year-old ranks fifth in MLB history with 683 home runs and ninth with 3,326 career hits.

"If there is one game for the fans to celebrate the history and longevity, it's the All-Star Game," said Chicago White Sox manager Tony LaRussa, who was Pujols' manager in St. Louis for seven years. "Anything like that [being selected to participate in the All-Star Game], I'm all in favor of."

Cabrera, 39, reached 3,000 career hits earlier this season. He will be appearing in his 12th All-Star Game.

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

6 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

11-0. 1.62 ERA.  No, there are not two other pitchers who deserve it over that.  That’s just a stupid take.

lol, your entire reasoning for why he's the "unquestioned" starter is his w/l and era? ok luddite. great debate. 👌🏼 

of the pitchers i listed, your guy has the fewest games played, fewest innings pitched, worst k/9, and worst FIP. in fact he's the only one with an FIP over 3, and he's all the way up at 3.29. so yeah, if he didn't play for the dodgers you wouldn't be making this case for him.

btw, the other pitchers are burnes, alcantara, nola, and max fried. i didn't even list musgrove, wheeler, urias, etc. stop acting like tony gonsolin is bob gibson. he's not. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by shadow_operative

[Sbbruin 21737]

1 hour ago, WBT said:

Mike Brito has died

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2022-07-08/panama-hat-cigar-radar-gun-legendary-scout-mike-brito-dodger-stadium?_amp=true

 

Yeah, saw that.  He was a fixture behind home plate for decades.

[Sbbruin 21737]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

I'd like to apologize to Helo for calling you California Helobious.  Even he is not clueless enough to cite pitcher's wins.

 

22 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

lol, your entire reasoning for why he's the "unquestioned" starter is his w/l and era? ok luddite. great debate. 👌🏼 

of the pitchers i listed, your guy has the fewest games played, fewest innings pitched, worst k/9, and worst FIP. in fact he's the only one with an FIP over 3, and he's all the way up at 3.29. so yeah, if he didn't play for the dodgers you wouldn't be making this case for him.

btw, the other pitchers are burnes, alcantara, nola, and max fried. i didn't even list musgrove, wheeler, urias, etc. stop acting like tony gonsolin is bob gibson. he's not. 

Look of course I get W/L is not a major relevant analytical tool.  But when you are 11 up and 0 down, that is relevant.  No, Gonzo is not the preeminent pitcher of his generation.  He may not be the best pitcher going right now.  But for a first half to have those 2 basic dominant categories, he's earned the start.  And no, I don't think it is very close.

[Helobious 9481]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

I agree with this about a billion percent.  WAR shouldn't even be the top criteria because it ignores context.  RE24 or something similar is the the best MVP metric.

Wanted to rep this but I looked it up and see Judge is currently 5th in that stat and Devers is 1st. I’ve no choice but to disagree with you.

[Beau Vine 54003]

27 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

 

Look of course I get W/L is not a major relevant analytical tool.  But when you are 11 up and 0 down, that is relevant.  No, Gonzo is not the preeminent pitcher of his generation.  He may not be the best pitcher going right now.  But for a first half to have those 2 basic dominant categories, he's earned the start.  And no, I don't think it is very close.

What's relevant is that he's allowing fewer than 5H/9 (which is absurd) and has a great ERA; he's had a hell of a year and if he is named to start, it won't be undeserving.  His actual W-L record is completely irrelevant to basically everyone who understands baseball, now that Joe Morgan is dead.

[Sbbruin 21737]

12 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

What's relevant is that he's allowing fewer than 5H/9 (which is absurd) and has a great ERA; he's had a hell of a year and if he is named to start, it won't be undeserving.  His actual W-L record is completely irrelevant to basically everyone who understands baseball, now that Joe Morgan is dead.

Next you're gonna tell me Mordecai "Three Fingers" Brown wasn't the greatest pitcher of all-time.  You yunguns and your new-fangled ways.

"During this stretch, he won 20 or more games six times and was part of two World Series championships. New York Giants manager John McGraw regarded his own Christy Mathewson and Brown as the two best pitchers in the National League. In fact, Brown defeated Mathewson in competition as often as not, most significantly in the final regular season game of the 1908 season. Brown had a career 13–11 edge on Mathewson, with one no-decision in their 25 pitching matchups.^[4]"

Edited July 8, 2022 by Sbbruin

[Scraps 13542]

we all already knew the Yankees sucked at this because they try to buy rings yearly -  But here is a chart:

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

pablo torre had an interesting take on the Gonsolin debate today. he pointed out that Alcantara has pitched 35 more innings than Gonsolin, which is essentially 7 extra starts that he's made over Gonsolin, and on a bad team no less.

is gonsolin deserving? yeah. are other guys more deserving? yeah. would gonsolin be the starter if the game were being played anywhere else? no. what is a horseshoe? are there horse socks? is anybody listening?

Edited July 8, 2022 by shadow_operative

[Helobious 9481]

2 hours ago, Scraps said:

we all already knew the Yankees sucked at this because they try to buy rings yearly -  But here is a chart:

 

Better to buy a ring than to steal one. 
 

What’s the timeframe on this anyway? The Yankees literal only current big name FA signing is Cole. Everyone else was either a nobody they got in a trade that they turned amazing (especially pitching wise), Stanton, or homegrown. 

[Scraps 13542]

You are an idiot. Yankees whole starting lineup except Judge isn't homegrown dummy.

[Helobious 9481]

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

You are an idiot. Yankees whole starting lineup except Judge isn't homegrown dummy.

Everyone else was gotten in a trade or an afterthought castoff signing (DJL signed for like $4 million originally). Not one big name FA signing out there. Not one. Coke & chapman are the only 2 and they’re pitchers. 

[Beau Vine 54003]

2 hours ago, Scraps said:

we all already knew the Yankees sucked at this because they try to buy rings yearly -  But here is a chart:

 

So many questions...

1.  Does this completely ignore international free agents?

2.  Are Correa and Springer still counting for the Astros?

3.  Can you really be "Draft Gods" if you spent #1 overall picks on Appel and Aiken?

4.  Trout is currently at about 80 WAR, so how do the Angels only show 50-something WAR from the draft?

[Scraps 13542]

So many questions...
1.  Does this completely ignore international free agents?
2.  Are Correa and Springer still counting for the Astros?
3.  Can you really be "Draft Gods" if you spent #1 overall picks on Appel and Aiken?
4.  Trout is currently at about 80 WAR, so how do the Angels only show 50-something WAR from the draft?

How much negative war do the dumbass angels have?

[Beau Vine 54003]

4 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Everyone else was gotten in a trade or an afterthought castoff signing (DJL signed for like $4 million originally). Not one big name FA signing out there. Not one. Coke & chapman are the only 2 and they’re pitchers. 

Rizzo?

[Beau Vine 54003]

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

So many questions...
1.  Does this completely ignore international free agents?
2.  Are Correa and Springer still counting for the Astros?
3.  Can you really be "Draft Gods" if you spent #1 overall picks on Appel and Aiken?
4.  Trout is currently at about 80 WAR, so how do the Angels only show 50-something WAR from the draft?

How much negative war do the dumbass angels have?

There's no way they have that much.  

[Helobious 9481]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

Rizzo?

Not 2 big name FA signings out there. Not 2.

[Scraps 13542]

Also the guy who did that apparently started in 2010 because original intent of the whole thing was to show how bad the angels have drafted since trout

"The guy who made this do so the year after Trout to see how bad the Angels have been drafting. He noted that most of the Astros draft success is due to 3 people CC, Bregs and Springer"

[shadow_operative2.0 15834]

 

 

[Helobious 9481]

19 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Also the guy who did that apparently started in 2010 because original intent of the whole thing was to show how bad the angels have drafted since trout

"The guy who made this do so the year after Trout to see how bad the Angels have been drafting. He noted that most of the Astros draft success is due to 3 people CC, Bregs and Springer"
 

That’s so stupid. “I’m gonna exclude the best player for the Angels but not the Astros because then the Astros wouldn’t be at the top”

[Scraps 13542]

That’s so stupid. “I’m gonna exclude the best player for the Angels but not the Astros because then the Astros wouldn’t be at the top”

Yes you and the guy who created that have it in common that you both manipulate data to make your agenda look better. Glad you finally admitted you are stupid.

[Beau Vine 54003]

44 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Not 2 big name FA signings out there. Not 2.

DJ LeMahieu is in the middle of a $90M contract.  

[Beau Vine 54003]

42 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Also the guy who did that apparently started in 2010 because original intent of the whole thing was to show how bad the angels have drafted since trout

If that graph ignores drafts before 2010, I see no way that the D-Backs have drafted over 80 WAR.  That tweet seems to be absolute total shit.

[Helobious 9481]

11 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

DJ LeMahieu is in the middle of a $90M contract.  

Already here when he signed it though.

[Helobious 9481]

Gallo is such a goddamn fucking moron in addition to being a really shitty baseball player. 
 

 

[shadow_operative2.0 15834]

At some point, Bos may want to quit playing guys so out of position. Franchy & Arroyo are exhibits 1A/1B.