2022 MLB thread

[Scraps 13550]

44 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

  He has 15 wins on the Angels which would equate to a 20-25 game winner on a division leading team.  

Lol

[ztejas 43273]

Shohei is incredible but at some point your team being 17 games below .500 has to count for something. And this isn't a run of the mill MVP batting season for Judge - he has a 213 OPS+ in 151 games played. 

Just depends on how you define "MVP" I guess. 

[Scraps 13550]

I tend to always lean to the word "valuable".  Judge was more valuable for the Yankees than Ohtani was for the Angels.  Judge pretty much carried the team to any of the wins they had for multiple weeks when they were in freefall mode.  Angels suck with Ohtani and would suck without Ohtani.  

Ohtani is the Most Outstanding Player in the league, but we don't have an award for that......yet. 

 

Oh but don't let dingleberry Helo read this because "all Astros fans only think Yordan or Altuve should be winning MVP derp derp" 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Scraps

[tx 3 putt 76476]

correct, the angles have the same record with or without ohtani 

the yankees might not be a wild card team without judge 

Edited September 30, 2022 by tx 3 putt

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

I tend to go by the value metrics. I understand that they aren’t perfect, but they are the best we’ve got at determining player value. It’s complicated because there is no real basis of comparison for Ohtani, aside from adding his position player/pitching WAR. For example, there may be an adjustment needed because he’s a great hitter and pitcher all tied up into a single roster spot; that has obvious value, but how do we quantify that?

I don’t know, and so I’d be inclined to go by the value metrics that we currently have which, like them or not, are used (in some form or fashion) universally in MLB. So I’d go with Judge based on the numbers that, ironically, Helo hates so much (WAR). He’s had an historic offensive year while playing reasonably good defense at a premium position. Ohtani offensively has not been in the same universe as Judge this year, and I don’t think the pitching numbers make up for the delta. Again, acknowledging that we may one day look back at this and say it was obviously Ohtani. But with what we know now, I’d vote for Judge.

[Beau Vine 54016]

1 hour ago, Scraps said:

I tend to always lean to the word "valuable".  Judge was more valuable for the Yankees than Ohtani was for the Angels.  Judge pretty much carried the team to any of the wins they had for multiple weeks when they were in freefall mode.  Angels suck with Ohtani and would suck without Ohtani.  

Ohtani is the Most Outstanding Player in the league, but we don't have an award for that......yet.

I normally despise this argument, but this is apparently the exact situation that it makes sense to me.  I just keep thinking that if Ohtani were really more valuable than Judge, the Angels would have to have more than 70 wins, right?  The Angels without SO don't seem like they should really be *THAT* much worse than NYY without AJ.

[ztejas 43273]

42 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Ohtani offensively has not been in the same universe as Judge this year, and I don’t think the pitching numbers make up for the delta.

I think that's exactly what WAR is telling us. 

[Helobious 9488]

To me it’s not even hard to understand. Ohtani pitches once every 5 days and is in the game for 4 at bats on the other days. Judge is in the game for 9 innings every day. Ohtani is a freak but judge is a more impactful player overall.

[henrygandorf 29182]

4 hours ago, Helobious said:

It was late and I was worn out from owning Astros fans all day.

no one will ever say you weren’t funny, burt. 

[henrygandorf 29182]

8 minutes ago, Helobious said:

To me it’s not even hard to understand. Ohtani pitches once every 5 days and is in the game for 4 at bats on the other days. Judge is in the game for 9 innings every day. Ohtani is a freak but judge is a more impactful player overall.

ohtani bats when he pitches. they have a similar number of pa. 

[TonyTexas 10483]

17 minutes ago, Helobious said:

To me it’s not even hard to understand. Ohtani pitches once every 5 days and is in the game for 4 at bats on the other days. Judge is in the game for 9 innings every day. Ohtani is a freak but judge is a more impactful player overall.

 

Judge-552 ABs, 672 PAs

Ohtani-561 ABs, 639 PAs

Edited September 30, 2022 by TonyTexas

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

2 hours ago, Scraps said:

I tend to always lean to the word "valuable".  Judge was more valuable for the Yankees than Ohtani was for the Angels.  Judge pretty much carried the team to any of the wins they had for multiple weeks when they were in freefall mode.  Angels suck with Ohtani and would suck without Ohtani.  

Ohtani is the Most Outstanding Player in the league, but we don't have an award for that......yet. 

I disagree. We can quantify value pretty well. It’s not Ohtani’s fault that Trout missed 40 games, Rendon missed most of the season, the other pitchers on the staff aren’t good, etc. Those things don’t diminish his value at all; they diminish the team’s overall success. His value is still his value. We have a pretty good estimate of the impact he’s had on his team’s win total. It appears to be slightly less than Judge has had on his team’s. Their teammates are responsible for the rest of it. 

[henrygandorf 29182]

36 minutes ago, Helobious said:

To me it’s not even hard to understand. Ohtani pitches once every 5 days and is in the game for 4 at bats on the other days. Judge is in the game for 9 innings every day. Ohtani is a freak but judge is a more impactful player overall.

my favorite part of all of this, is that most agree with helo that judge should win.  he's just so inept at creating and executing any type of supporting argument.

[Beau Vine 54016]

38 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I think that's exactly what WAR is telling us. 

I've said it before in this thread, but I don't like WAR for looking at MVP because it ignores context.  If someone was more clutch, that made them more valuable, even if it's not a repeatable skill.  That's why I like RE24 or WPA.

And Judge is pretty far ahead on both of those:

WPA: 8.0 Judge, 2.5 + 3.3 Ohtani

RE24: 80.1 Judge, 32.4 + 33.9 Ohtani

 

[henrygandorf 29182]

 

[Huckleberry 32710]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

I've said it before in this thread, but I don't like WAR for looking at MVP because it ignores context.  If someone was more clutch, that made them more valuable, even if it's not a repeatable skill.  That's why I like RE24 or WPA.

And Judge is pretty far ahead on both of those:

WPA: 8.0 Judge, 2.5 + 3.3 Ohtani

RE24: 80.1 Judge, 32.4 + 33.9 Ohtani

 

I agree with this. MVP should be an award for what actually happened. I'll pay a guy for future seasons based on WAR but I'll vote for him for postseason awards based on WPA. That can cause some crazy results but that's what happened. If a guy has a season where he flukes his way into far more high leverage situations than expected he still has to deliver in those situations to accumulate positive WPA.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Huckleberry

[Guadaloopy 10929]

42 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

 

Everyone should stop arguing about MVP and go watch this. 

[jimmyjazz 45603]

18 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

130, 118, 104 were huge deals.

110, 109, 108, and 107 didn't suck either.

All 7 happened before 1988.  Hmmm.  Things change?

[Helobious 9488]

Ok that wrigley vid is badass.

Fantastic donk @00:26

Edited September 30, 2022 by Helobious

[tx 3 putt 76476]

 

[tx 3 putt 76476]

 

[Underdog 28460]

Come to NYC on NYE to watch the ball drop...  Classic. 

[Underdog 28460]

2 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

Tough to fap to but i managed somehow. 

[UpperWestside 6136]

Nice way to begin the weekend here before all the rain shows up! Let’s get it A-Aron!

[shadow_operative2.0 15845]

deGrom v. Fried in 20 minutes from Atl, Mets up a game. 

[tx 3 putt 76476]

56 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Come to NYC on NYE to watch the ball drop...  Classic. 

 

really fucking good 

[UpperWestside 6136]

They just played parts of Coolio’s best known songs in between the inning. Kinda nice to hear those songs, but sad that he’s gone.

[tx 3 putt 76476]

wtf, split screen judge at bats tonight ?

[UpperWestside 6136]

Harrison Bader is fun to watch! He covers a lot of ground in center and made a pretty cool catch just now. They gotta keep this guy long-term.

[ztejas 43273]

I don't understand how you can watch these ABs and think that hitting 60+ isn't a huge fucking deal. It becomes progressively harder to hit homers the more you've hit in a season. Especially for a guy that is - for all we know - not juicing. It could be 20 years before we see this again. 

That said - the AL record shit is overblown - but AL or NL anyone hitting 60 is something else. 

[shadow_operative2.0 15845]

4-1 Braves in bot 7. 

[pops 6975]

701 for pujols. 

[ztejas 43273]

1 minute ago, pops said:

701 for pujols. 

[Helobious 9488]

Stupidest AB in the 8th for Judge. Orioles pitcher throws two balls, gets hurt, decides to stay in game, throws some warm up pitches, throws another ball, O’s decide fuck it just walk him. I think once you start an AB you shouldn’t get warm up pitches, should be a new rule . 

[ztejas 43273]

Honestly watching these I'm amazed anyone ever hit 70. I mean it certainly explains why Bonds never cracked 50 outside of that season. 

[InkaUtexas 25541]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

Stupidest AB in the 8th for Judge. Orioles pitcher throws two balls, gets hurt, decides to stay in game, throws some warm up pitches, throws another ball, O’s decide fuck it just walk him. I think once you start an AB you shouldn’t get warm up pitches, should be a new rule . 

The stupid part are people leaving. I hope he gets it in extra innings and all those assholes miss it. 

Go to a game, watch the game. Only game I have left early was UT vs. Notre Dame. Won't mention the score. We went and got drunk at the Posse East. 

[shadow_operative2.0 15845]

Bases loaded, down 3, 1 out in top 9, Mets' stud prospect Ks. 

Naquin does also, ballgame, division tied. 

[ztejas 43273]

Mariners to the playoffs. 

Hey Helo can you declare that the Rangers have zero shot at getting to the WS next season?

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Helobious said:

Stupidest AB in the 8th for Judge. Orioles pitcher throws two balls, gets hurt, decides to stay in game, throws some warm up pitches, throws another ball, O’s decide fuck it just walk him. I think once you start an AB you shouldn’t get warm up pitches, should be a new rule . 

No practice swings by batters either...

[Helobious 9488]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Mariners to the playoffs. 

Hey Helo can you declare that the Rangers have zero shot at getting to the WS next season?

I’ll do you one better and say the Rangers have no shot at the playoffs next year. That’ll be a free prediction I can hang my hat on for getting correct, thanks.

31 minutes ago, slorch said:

No practice swings by batters either...

I actually would be in favor of that too.

[UpperWestside 6136]

Today begins Domestic Violence Awareness Month according to the PA announcer. Good thing Domingo German pitched last night and not today. 

[Scraps 13550]

Today begins Domestic Violence Awareness Month according to the PA announcer. Good thing Domingo German pitched last night and not today. 

There is always Aroldis Chapman

[tx 3 putt 76476]

 

[Beau Vine 54016]

^^^^^

Sims is making that an annual thing:

 

 

[UpperWestside 6136]

This beta cuck for the O’s is throwing batting practice to everyone except Judge who he hit in the 1st and just walked again. When you give up a homer to Higashioka you probably should go ahead and ask to be pulled from the game.

[UpperWestside 6136]

48 minutes ago, Scraps said:

53 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Today begins Domestic Violence Awareness Month according to the PA announcer. Good thing Domingo German pitched last night and not today. 

There is always Aroldis Chapman

Nothing I can say there.

[VirginiaLonghorn 4750]

2 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

This beta cuck for the O’s is throwing batting practice to everyone except Judge who he hit in the 1st and just walked again. When you give up a homer to Higashioka you probably should go ahead and ask to be pulled from the game.

You probably whined last night when pitching around Judge helped the O’s win.

[UpperWestside 6136]

13 minutes ago, VirginiaLonghorn said:

You probably whined last night when pitching around Judge helped the O’s win.

Boone trotting an obviously done Britton in the biggest situation in the game is why the O’s won. No more no less. No one for the Yanks made solid contact with anything outside of Cabrera.

[VirginiaLonghorn 4750]

14 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Boone trotting an obviously done Britton in the biggest situation in the game is why the O’s won. No more no less. No one for the Yanks made solid contact with anything outside of Cabrera.

Not giving in to arguably the game’s best/most dangerous hitter wasn’t big?  No more, no less?

[UpperWestside 6136]

When you lose by a run and that run came via a guy who had recorded two outs and had walked seven in his return to the team, yes that is no more, no less what decided the game. Again, no one made good contact last night outside of Cabrera. Britton should never have been activated this season.

The O’s trotted out a coward to the bump today. One of many guys over the last several weeks that mentally cannot handle the moment. I would not care if it was Alvarez going for the record in Houston or if it was prime JD Martinez. Grow a set and pitch to guys or don’t take the mound. Give me a Verlander or Nolan Ryan in these situations every day of the week.