The NBA Finals- Warriors vs Cavs

[immortal13 4059]

9 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

By the end of his career, Lebron will double up Jordans Finals appearances and then some. He will get a few more rings. Might even finish with 6 like y'all's lord and savior Jordan. Kerr, who was Jordans teammate, even said LeBron is playing at a level no one else has been at. Was it hyperbole? Maybe.

But the fact that people still have to bring up some guy who hasn't won a ring in 2 decades any time Lebron is brought up is weak as fuck. Respect them both on their own. If you can't enjoy what Lebron is doing throughout his career, then you're missing out and are pretty lame. You can respect them both. The world won't spin of it's axis if you do.

Lulz... Who gives a fuck about appearances? Get outta here with that Buffalo Bills shit 

Edited June 3, 2018 by immortal13

[MNLonghornFUKM 8921]

14 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Lulz... Who gives a fuck about appearances? Get outta here with that Buffalo Bills shit 

You dont think 8 straight finals appearances is good?

[Robin Masters 122]

It's good but it's not great when you lose a bunch of them, and are not even the best player on your team in some of them.

Lulz at Bron gonna have many more finals and wins. Not likely if he stays at Cleveland.

Does Philly with Bron beat Celtics with Kyrie, Hayward and Stevens? That's no sure thing in my mind and then you still have to beat GSW.

I don't think Bron, Paul George and lil Ball, could beat the Warriors or Houston.

Lebron added to Houston will mean the western conference final will be the championship. You still have to hope Chris Pauls hammy doesn't act up, and it still will be down to which team can get hot from 3 for 4 games.

 

[immortal13 4059]

28 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

You dont think 8 straight finals appearances is good?

Sure, and the Buffalo Bills were also good

[MNLonghornFUKM 8921]

8 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Sure, and the Buffalo Bills were also good

huh? so the Bills were a bad team because they didnt win the super bowl?

12 minutes ago, Robin Masters said:

It's good but it's not great when you lose a bunch of them, and are not even the best player on your team in some of them.

Lulz at Bron gonna have many more finals and wins. Not likely if he stays at Cleveland.

Does Philly with Bron beat Celtics with Kyrie, Hayward and Stevens? That's no sure thing in my mind and then you still have to beat GSW.

I don't think Bron, Paul George and lil Ball, could beat the Warriors or Houston.

Lebron added to Houston will mean the western conference final will be the championship. You still have to hope Chris Pauls hammy doesn't act up, and it still will be down to which team can get hot from 3 for 4 games.

 

can you expand on this?

[immortal13 4059]

Asked and answered

[MNLonghornFUKM 8921]

1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

Asked and answered

Ok so Ill just assume you think the Bills were a good team, but couldnt win it all. Just like LeBron and some of his Cavs teams

[immortal13 4059]

They were really good. A lot of second place finishes. Zero shame in that

[kopp0e 1135]

25 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Sure, and the Buffalo Bills were also good

Except when the Bills played dem Cowboys in the Super Bowl(s)...

 

[kopp0e 1135]

13 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

They were really good. A lot of second place finishes. Zero shame in that

Agreed, and to tie back in to the NBA Finals LeBron has played, it's only elite players that can make an 8 year streak of showings seem as what we expect...

Also, let's not forget that neither Kobe nor Shaq went to 8 straight NBA Finals during the time together nor apart for 2 of the best athletes of the early 2000's...

[immortal13 4059]

I would say damn good, even. Certainly well above average. 

[Patrick Bateman 3945]

Just now, kopp0e said:

Agreed, and to tie back in to the NBA Finals LeBron has played, it's only elite players that can make an 8 year streak of showings seem as what we expect...

Also, let's not forget that neither Kobe nor Shaq went to 8 straight NBA Finals during the time together nor apart for 2 of the best athletes of the early 2000's...

Shaq had an interesting run.  In his decade prime, 4 times he won the championship.  4 times he lost to the eventual champion.  1 to the Utah Jazz, who were a great runner up to..... Jordan.  And once to a Detroit Pistons team that pushed the Spurs to 7 and lost in the Finals.  I think it's very easy to appreciate what Lebron's done because of the simplicity of it but let's face it, if he was in the West, arguably at least 3 of his teams don't get to the Finals as they weren't the 2nd best team (07', 14', 18') and may have been eliminated early depending on seeding.  Or use Tim Duncan's career, 5 titles, 1 Finals loss, but also lost to 3 other losses to eventual champions and 2 conference champions who didn't win.  We don't want to get into KAJ's career where he went to the Finals 10 times, won 6, and probably lost to eventual champion another 3 or 4 more times...... Maybe Lebron can have this type of run as his story isn't done.... The relative weakness of the conference helps a lot.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8921]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Shaq had an interesting run.  In his decade prime, 4 times he won the championship.  4 times he lost to the eventual champion.  1 to the Utah Jazz, who were a great runner up to..... Jordan.  And once to a Detroit Pistons team that pushed the Spurs to 7 and lost in the Finals.  I think it's very easy to appreciate what Lebron's done because of the simplicity of it but let's face it, if he was in the West, arguably at least 3 of his teams don't get to the Finals as they weren't the 2nd best team (07', 14', 18') and may have been eliminated early depending on seeding.  Or use Tim Duncan's career, 5 titles, 1 Finals loss, but also lost to 3 other losses to eventual champions and 2 conference champions who didn't win.  We don't want to get into KAJ's career where he went to the Finals 10 times, won 6, and probably lost to eventual champion another 3 or 4 more times...... Maybe Lebron can have this type of run as his story isn't done.... The relative weakness of the conference helps a lot.

it does help

 

but youre still winning 24 straight playoff series vs other playoff NBA teams that are giving you their best shot. all while not being injured really at all

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Robin Masters said:

It's good but it's not great when you lose a bunch of them, and are not even the best player on your team in some of them.

Lulz at Bron gonna have many more finals and wins. Not likely if he stays at Cleveland.

Does Philly with Bron beat Celtics with Kyrie, Hayward and Stevens? That's no sure thing in my mind and then you still have to beat GSW.

I don't think Bron, Paul George and lil Ball, could beat the Warriors or Houston.

Lebron added to Houston will mean the western conference final will be the championship. You still have to hope Chris Pauls hammy doesn't act up, and it still will be down to which team can get hot from 3 for 4 games.

 

You keep going full retard.  

[d2o 1602]

38 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Shaq had an interesting run.  In his decade prime, 4 times he won the championship.  4 times he lost to the eventual champion.  1 to the Utah Jazz, who were a great runner up to..... Jordan.  And once to a Detroit Pistons team that pushed the Spurs to 7 and lost in the Finals.  I think it's very easy to appreciate what Lebron's done because of the simplicity of it but let's face it, if he was in the West, arguably at least 3 of his teams don't get to the Finals as they weren't the 2nd best team (07', 14', 18') and may have been eliminated early depending on seeding.  Or use Tim Duncan's career, 5 titles, 1 Finals loss, but also lost to 3 other losses to eventual champions and 2 conference champions who didn't win.  We don't want to get into KAJ's career where he went to the Finals 10 times, won 6, and probably lost to eventual champion another 3 or 4 more times...... Maybe Lebron can have this type of run as his story isn't done.... The relative weakness of the conference helps a lot.

I get what you are saying but it completely discounts the fact that LBJ teams have won multiple series in the east where they were not favored.    To automatically assume that if he played in the west that his teams would lose earlier is..........interesting at best.   Mentioning losing to the eventual champion as if it is a positive mark but discounting losing TO the ACTUAL champion is as well.

 

Additionally, why is this same argument not made to diminish Magic?   He went to the Finals like 9 out of 12 yrs playing the west  with as "little competition" as LBJ has faced in the east.

Edited June 3, 2018 by d2o

[aggie08 21608]

8 minutes ago, d2o said:

I get what you are saying but it completely discounts the fact that LBJ teams have won multiple series in the east where they were not favored. 

Which? I'm honestly asking. I don't remember any. At least not in this 8 year run. Most people picked Cleveland against Boston this year...was Boston favored in Vegas?

[aggie08 21608]

17 minutes ago, d2o said:

To automatically assume that if he played in the west that his teams would lose earlier is..........interesting at best. 

Why? Other than 2015 (which wasn't nearly as close as people remember it being), all of LeBron's Finals loses have been beat downs. Why is it "interesting" to assume similar results against the Spurs and Warriors had they met earlier in the Western Conference? I guess you can argue that maybe he doesn't freeze up as badly against Dallas had it not been in the Finals.

Or are you saying that, had he been on a Western Conference team, his team would have been stronger (or, at least, better managed than Cleveland)? That argument I can buy.

Edited June 3, 2018 by aggie08

[Patrick Bateman 3945]

11 minutes ago, d2o said:

I get what you are saying but it completely discounts the fact that LBJ teams have won multiple series in the east where they were not favored.    To automatically assume that if he played in the west that his teams would lose earlier is..........interesting at best.   Mentioning losing to the eventual champion as if it is a positive mark but discounting losing TO the ACTUAL champion is as well.

Huh?  What are you trying to say here?  And why are you trying to argue?  I'm simply making an observation that the record is easy to understand rather than have to rely on context for the average fan.

Quote

Additionally, why is this same argument not made to diminish Magic?   He went to the Finals like 9 out of 12 yrs playing the west  with as "little competition" as LBJ has faced in the east.

You keep writing this but not sure how you would even build a comparison.  The first time Magic won the title, there were only 22 teams in the league, yet they still allowed 16 teams in the playoffs.  At the time of his retirement there were 27 teams.  So the first round was easier (also best out of 5) but the league was very top heavy because of the lack of free agency, salary cap, luxury tax, almost no contract restraints, etc, etc.  So, it would make sense the depth of the league wasn't as strong, how could it be with 10 less teams, but the top 5-6 teams were arguably better than they are now..... The NBA by design wants to be flatter (it was more vertical in the 80/90's), it's why folks hate the Warriors as they fly against the notion.  

 

[d2o 1602]

20 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Which? I'm honestly asking. I don't remember any. At least not in this 8 year run. Most people picked Cleveland against Boston this year...was Boston favored in Vegas?

the whole 2007 run and the 2016 title (that wasn't in the east obviously) without actually looking.   Before the playoffs most said there was no way CLE was making it to the Finals again.

Edited June 3, 2018 by d2o

[Orca of Peace 109]

Magic would have gone to the Finals 10 straight 80-89 were it not for the Rockets 81 (Moses) and 86 (Hakeem/Ralph).  West was really soft then as was the East during Lebron's reign.  Going to the Finals isn't the ultimate measuring stick though. Watching them play is the best valuation. 

[aggie08 21608]

Just now, d2o said:

the whole 2007 run and the 2016 title without actually looking

You said in the East. I don't think LeBron has been an underdog in the East since the Decision.

[d2o 1602]

6 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

Magic would have gone to the Finals 10 straight 80-89 were it not for the Rockets 81 (Moses) and 86 (Hakeem/Ralph).  West was really soft then as was the East during Lebron's reign.  Going to the Finals isn't the ultimate measuring stick though. Watching them play is the best valuation. 

 

10 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Huh?  What are you trying to say here?  And why are you trying to argue?  I'm simply making an observation that the record is easy to understand rather than have to rely on context for the average fan.

You keep writing this but not sure how you would even build a comparison.  The first time Magic won the title, there were only 22 teams in the league, yet they still allowed 16 teams in the playoffs.  At the time of his retirement there were 27 teams.  So the first round was easier (also best out of 5) but the league was very top heavy because of the lack of free agency, salary cap, luxury tax, almost no contract restraints, etc, etc.  So, it would make sense the depth of the league wasn't as strong, how could it be with 10 less teams, but the top 5-6 teams were arguably better than they are now..... The NBA by design wants to be flatter (it was more vertical in the 80/90's), it's why folks hate the Warriors as they fly against the notion.  

 

Throughout the history of the NBA there have only been 3-4 teams who you would consider contenders every season.   It's no different now than it was in the 80's or 90's so regardless of what the league wants its remained the same.

You could make an argument against the competition of every great player/team (yes including MJ/Bulls) but for some reason its a focus of the effort to knock LBJ.

Edited June 3, 2018 by d2o

[Brothahorn 10088]

You dont think 8 straight finals appearances is good?

Good, not Great.

[d2o 1602]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

You said in the East. I don't think LeBron has been an underdog in the East since the Decision.

If few had them chosen to go to the finals this yr how were not the underdog?

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

2 hours ago, Robin Masters said:

It's good but it's not great when you lose a bunch of them, and are not even the best player on your team in some of them.

Lol.  LeBron has been the best player on his team since the day he put in a nba jersey, and probably will be until he retires.

[aggie08 21608]

7 minutes ago, d2o said:

If few had them chosen to go to the finals this yr how were not the underdog?

Cleveland was the betting favorite to win the East as of April 12. Just ahead of Toronto, and well ahead of anyone else. They were MASSIVE favorites at the beginning of the year before everyone started hating each other.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-eastern-conference-futures

Edited June 3, 2018 by aggie08

[Patrick Bateman 3945]

7 minutes ago, d2o said:

If few had them chosen to go to the finals this yr how were not the underdog?

I guess it depends on what you're looking at, but this year was the first time Lebron's been an underdog in a series by Vegas in the East in at least 10 years.... some say in his career.  And it was to the Toronto pretenders.

http://thesource.com/2018/05/01/for-the-first-time-in-lebron-james-career-vegas-has-his-team-as-underdogs-in-their-eastern-conference-matchup/

http://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-team/?Team=Miami+Heat&sa=nba

http://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-team/?Team=Cleveland+Cavaliers&sa=nba

Edited June 3, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Lol.  LeBron has been the best player on his team since the day he put in a nba jersey, and probably will be until he retires.

He was the best player on the Heat in 2010.  He did not play like it.     That would be the only time.   Not "some" as that crazy statement said.

[d2o 1602]

Just now, aggie08 said:

After Kyrie went down, Cleveland was the betting favorite to win the East. Just ahead of Toronto, and well ahead of anyone else. They were MASSIVE favorites at the beginning of the year before everyone started hating each other.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-eastern-conference-futures

So we just talk about odds at the beginning of the season???

[aggie08 21608]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

So we just talk about odds at the beginning of the season???

I just told you that they were the favorites entering the playoffs. If they temporarily dipped below Toronto before Game 1 of the 2nd round, it was because of how shitty Cleveland looked against Indiana, not Toronto's perceived strength.

[52-80 19287]

Arguing over resumes is for the fetishist. People will never change their opinion.  I don't like many of the things LeBron does/did....

 

What's indisputable is that after almost 1400 professional games completed....the man is playing lights out.  Comparisons be damned what he's doing now is utterly ridiculous

[immortal13 4059]

6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I just told you that they were the favorites entering the playoffs. If they temporarily dipped below Toronto before Game 1 of the 2nd round, it was because of how shitty Cleveland looked against Indiana, not Toronto's perceived strength.

Dammit 08, you are ruining the narrative!

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Arguing over resumes is for the fetishist. People will never change their opinion.  I don't like many of the things LeBron does/did....

 

What's indisputable is that after almost 1400 professional games completed....the man is playing lights out.  Comparisons be damned what he's doing now is utterly ridiculous

Agree with this.   I'm pretty much done withe whole debate.  I thoroughly enjoy watching LBJ  play just like I enjoyed MJ.  Its just some of the points made to discount Lebron are annoying.

[d2o 1602]

8 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I just told you that they were the favorites entering the playoffs. If they temporarily dipped below Toronto before Game 1 of the 2nd round, it was because of how shitty Cleveland looked against Indiana, not Toronto's perceived strength.

regardless of the reasoning were they or were they not seen as the favorite?   So is everyone making a big deal of him getting this team to the finals for nothing?

[Robin Masters 122]

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

can you expand on this?

I would say Dwayne Wade was better than Lebron in the Dallas series. 26.5 vs 17.8, Lebron 7.2 Reb, Wade 7, Lebron had an extra assist.

I would also say Kyrie was Lebrons equal in 2016. There was plenty of time when Bron was cold, where the Warriors could not keep even two guys in front of Kyrie. Also plenty of times when Kyrie was clanging 3s that Lebron took over.

To my eye, early in his career Lebron was not super enthusiastic to be the guy with the ball with time winding down, just didn't have that self confidence. I think he does now, and yeah he should have passed it to Hill. I don't think Jordan, Bird, Magic suffered that lack of confidence even early on. Kobe didn't either, but he should have because he was not as good as he thought he was for a season or two, especially his jumper.

 

 

 

[aggie08 21608]

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Arguing over resumes is for the fetishist. People will never change their opinion.  I don't like many of the things LeBron does/did....

 

What's indisputable is that after almost 1400 professional games completed....the man is playing lights out.  Comparisons be damned what he's doing now is utterly ridiculous

It just annoys me that it's an either/or argument. That acknowledging how abjectively terrible the East has been this decade (millennium, really) somehow diminishes LBJ's greatness.

My stance has always been the same: I think you could swap any of the other consensus Top 5 players (Dirk, KD, Steph, Harden, Kawhi, etc.) during this stretch for LeBron, and they'd almost certainly win the East on LBJ's teams in a given season. Until this year, that would have still given the Heat/Cavs the 2 best players on the court in any of their Eastern Conference series, rarely facing one Top 10ish player, let alone multiple. 

BUT, probably no one in NBA history could have done it 8 consecutive years. And they definitely wouldn't have 3 titles to show for it going up against the best of the West. They'd have a down series/playoffs/year. They'd tweak an ankle at the wrong time. They'd get physically and mentally drained after that much basketball. 

LeBron's sustained, consistent greatness (shit, he's still getting better and never has two bad games in a row), mental focus, and seeming immunity to serious injury is inhuman.

[d2o 1602]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

It just annoys me that it's an either/or argument. That acknowledging how abjectively terrible the East has been this decade (millennium, really) somehow diminishes LBJ's greatness.

My stance has always been the same: I think you could swap any of the other consensus Top 5 players (Dirk, KD, Steph, Harden, Kawhi, etc.) during this stretch for LeBron, and they'd almost certainly win the East on LBJ's teams in a given season. Until this year, that would have still given the Heat/Cavs the 2 best players on the court in any of their Eastern Conference series, rarely facing one Top 10ish player, let alone multiple. 

BUT, probably no one in NBA history could have done it 8 consecutive years. And they definitely wouldn't have 3 titles to show for it going up against the best of the West. They'd have a down series/playoffs/year. They'd tweak an ankle at the wrong time. They'd get physically and mentally drained after that much basketball. 

LeBron's sustained, consistent greatness (shit, he's still getting better and never has two bad games in a row), mental focus, and seeming immunity to serious injury is inhuman.

Because that is what has been consistently used for.   While competition level is not used aginast any of the other greats when it could just as easily be used.    In fact, its the opposite in some instances.    Heck, there are people here trying to prop that Knicks team in an effort to strengthen Mj's resume

Edited June 3, 2018 by d2o

[Vic Mackey 47434]

[MNLonghornFUKM 8921]

2 hours ago, Robin Masters said:

I would say Dwayne Wade was better than Lebron in the Dallas series. 26.5 vs 17.8, Lebron 7.2 Reb, Wade 7, Lebron had an extra assist.

I would also say Kyrie was Lebrons equal in 2016. There was plenty of time when Bron was cold, where the Warriors could not keep even two guys in front of Kyrie. Also plenty of times when Kyrie was clanging 3s that Lebron took over.

To my eye, early in his career Lebron was not super enthusiastic to be the guy with the ball with time winding down, just didn't have that self confidence. I think he does now, and yeah he should have passed it to Hill. I don't think Jordan, Bird, Magic suffered that lack of confidence even early on. Kobe didn't either, but he should have because he was not as good as he thought he was for a season or two, especially his jumper.

 

 

 

Great. so you picked out 2 series out of about 30 that he wasn the best on his team. Bravo

 

We all know why his "robin" had a better series than he did anyways.

Edited June 3, 2018 by MNLonghornFUKM

[Sidney Sherman 66]

So how does the GSW in 6 game Vegas script go for this game? They win both at home. Then lose both in Cle, only to win the next two?

Chitown what does the crystal ball say in the gambling world?

 

 

[hookem48 4718]

Hard  to compare Jordan/LBJ when the NBA doesn't even resemble what it was 20 years ago.

[hookem48 4718]

JR already high as fuck.

[Patrick Bateman 3945]

This is an under reported story.  Iggy out and they don't know if/when he'll play again but "at some point".  Klay is now hopeful (game time) and is obviously way less than 100%.  Some of us have already talked about how poorly the W's roster was constructed for the playoffs and their lack of depth on the wings. 

 

[hookem48 4718]

5 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is an under reported story.  Iggy out and they don't know if/when he'll play again but "at some point".  Klay is now hopeful (game time) and is obviously way less than 100%.  Some of us have already talked about how poorly the W's roster was constructed for the playoffs and their lack of depth on the wings. 

 

setting up Thompson to be the hero tonight

[Eskimohorn 5658]

Lebron’s lost in the finals so much because of the weak East. Its obvious.

[Machinator 32099]

They don't need Iggy to win the title. It might be a story going forward for the Warriors' roster in the offseason.

[tbone_ 14299]

Lebron’s lost in the finals so much because of the weak East. Its obvious.

His marginal surrounding casts say hi.

[Patrick Bateman 3945]

7 minutes ago, Machinator said:

They don't need Iggy to win the title. It might be a story going forward for the Warriors' roster in the offseason.

They're going to need Klay.... and if he re-aggravates it or it flares up, they don't have another wing of consequence..... 

[d2o 1602]

Just now, Machinator said:

They don't need Iggy to win the title. It might be a story going forward for the Warriors' roster in the offseason.

Him being out was a CP3 injury away from causing them to lose to HOU.   You don't think it makes a huge difference against LBJ?   Its a large reason why Lebron scored so much and so easily in game 1.    They have no one else on their roster that will work hard enough to contain him.

[kopp0e 1135]

19 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is an under reported story.  Iggy out and they don't know if/when he'll play again but "at some point".  Klay is now hopeful (game time) and is obviously way less than 100%.  Some of us have already talked about how poorly the W's roster was constructed for the playoffs and their lack of depth on the wings. 

 

I think the Cavs even the series tonight...