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Posted

Could the Lakers actually win?

PG - Magic

SG - Kobe

SF - Lebron

PF - Kareem

C- Shaq

Bench- Jerry, Wilt, Elgin, Worthy, Mikan, Goodrich, Rambis (need a guy to foul the other team)

 

 

Non - Lakers

PG - Roberston

SG - MJ

SF - Bird

PF - Duncan

C- Russell

 

Bench - Hakeem, Malone, KD (I've seen him in some top 15s already), Stockton,  Steph, Giannis,Robinson

 

Actually think the Non-Lakers team and obviously you would have a much larger pool to draw from.  

 

Posted

I’d go small with KD at four to force Kareem to guard the perimeter

At center, I’d consider having someone like Jokic or maybe even Giannis and force Shaq to have to guard the perimeter too 

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Posted (edited)

Only chance the Lakers have if it's like 5 on 5 pick up style to 21 or something. If it's NBA rules and a 7 game series I don't think they have the bench and not sure their starting 5 is better anyway. 

Also don't see Kareem and Shaq working - because if I'm the all time team I start Curry or Chris Paul over ORob and bench one of Russell or Duncan and start KD. Or throw Ben Wallace out there and let him try and take Shaq out of the game. Lakers maybe start Pau or AD next to Shaq. Or someone like Lamar Odom (or Worthy).

Magic/Kobe/LeBron is just filthy though. Why I say if it's like 2k blacktop style they'd have a chance.

Also I'd take KG over Malone or DRob. 

Edited by ztejas
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Posted (edited)

Michael, Larry, KD, and Steph all on one team is too much scoring for any team to overcome. 

i'll also point out that this version of LBJ, while still prolific stats wise, is nowhere near prime LBJ. 

Edited by shadow_operative
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Posted
2 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

i'll also point out that this version of LBJ, while still prolific stats wise, is nowhere near prime LBJ. 

This is my other question... do the Lakers get these guys at their peaks or how they were with the Lakers? I guess it doesn't matter for most of them. 

Posted
26 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Only chance the Lakers have if it's like 5 on 5 pick up style to 21 or something. If it's NBA rules and a 7 game series I don't think they have the bench and not sure their starting 5 is better anyway. 

Also don't see Kareem and Shaq working - because if I'm the all time team I start Curry or Chris Paul over ORob and bench one of Russell or Duncan and start KD. Or throw Ben Wallace out there and let him try and take Shaq out of the game. Lakers maybe start Pau or AD next to Shaq. Or someone like Lamar Odom (or Worthy).

Magic/Kobe/LeBron is just filthy though. Why I say if it's like 2k blacktop style they'd have a chance.

Also I'd take KG over Malone or DRob. 

Just noticed that my Laker team can probably be out quicked by the right lineup.

25 minutes ago, Upgrayedd said:

Kareem at pf.  Lulz

OR put him at the 5 and Shaq/Wilt at the 4?  It's ok to go twin towers.

21 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Gonna be crowded in the paint on offense.

Yep

16 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

Michael, Larry, KD, and Steph all on one team is too much scoring for any team to overcome. 

i'll also point out that this version of LBJ, while still prolific stats wise, is nowhere near prime LBJ. 

MJ vs Kobe

Bird vs Bron

KD vs Kareem? 

Steph vs Magic

 

I'd think Kareem and Magic would be worn down by their counterparts.

12 minutes ago, ztejas said:

This is my other question... do the Lakers get these guys at their peaks or how they were with the Lakers? I guess it doesn't matter for most of them. 

For this exercise, let's call it the Lakers version of these guys.  

Posted

I wonder how a team that’s MJ, three elite 3&D wings (including KD), and a post who can shoot threes to space the floor and protect the rim (Jokic?) would look 

Something like MJ, Kawhi, Paul George (elite at catch and shoot threes), KD, and Jokic would potentially be elite both offensively and defensively

Posted
9 minutes ago, Fud said:

I wonder how a team that’s MJ, three elite 3&D wings (including KD), and a post who can shoot threes to space the floor and protect the rim (Jokic?) would look 

Something like MJ, Kawhi, Paul George (elite at catch and shoot threes), KD, and Jokic would potentially be elite both offensively and defensively

Jokic is awesome but Shaq or Kareem would eat his ass alive. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Jokic is awesome but Shaq or Kareem would eat his ass alive. 

Shaq would offensively in one on one, but this defense offers a lot of schematic possibilities, plus then Shaq has to try and guard him

Posted

I am stunned this board thinks the non-Laker team would whoop the Lakers. Alrighty then.  If we are talking these players at their peak while being a Laker, the Lakers have arguably the 3 best big men of all-time, the best point guard, a top 5 SG (I put Kobe higher than top 5, but will concede for argument sake), a top 2 PF, and a bench that has West, Baylor, and Wilt?  Puh-lease.

 

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Posted

I mean, if it’s the lakers version of the players it’s the non lakers. But if it’s the peak version of anyone that played for the lakers then give me the Lakers. 
Magic, Kobe LBJ, Wilt and Kareem are all, no doubt about it, top 8 players of all time. 
Then you get a top 10 player in Shaq, a top 20 player in Malone, a top 50 player in Gary Peyton, Jerry West is only the freaking logo, James Worthy etc. how many guys you think you are playing in a  best of 7 series?  If you are going more than 8 or 9 you are doing it wrong. 
 

My starting lineup is Wilt, Mailman, LBJ, Kobe and Magic. 
My rotational backups are glove, West, Worthy and Kareem. Shaq doesn’t play for me and that’s with me thinking he’s awesome. Worthy probably plays 18 minutes tops- prime LBJ needs 40 minutes- he can give me 30 at the 3 and 10 at the 4 when Malone sits down. I know this is probably heresy but I might have a quick trigger on Magic vs Glove based upon how much the other PG is trying to score.  Magics  playmaking isn’t as necessary with Kobe, LBJ and Wilt. 
mid it’s not prime version of guys then I will take the non Lakers nba guys in a walk. 
too weak at the 3 and 4. Too much wasted talent at the 5. You just can’t play them together. 
not enough shooting in the backcourt. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Fud said:

I wonder how a team that’s MJ, three elite 3&D wings (including KD), and a post who can shoot threes to space the floor and protect the rim (Jokic?) would look 

Something like MJ, Kawhi, Paul George (elite at catch and shoot threes), KD, and Jokic would potentially be elite both offensively and defensively

replace PG with Pippen. you don't even need any more scoring with the other four guys, and you can put Pippen on Kobe and make Kobe be Bad Kobe. 

let's also remember that MJ himself is among the handful of greatest perimeter defenders ever. 

Edited by shadow_operative
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Posted
Just now, shadow_operative said:

replace PG with Pippen or Rodman or someone like that. you don't even need any more scoring eith the other four guys, and you can put Pippen on Kobe and make Kobe be Bad Kobe. 

I thought about Pippen but I figured George is a better option for catch and shoot threes. Also thought about Bird and Klay 

Posted

The Lakers team should only include players who spent the bulk of their prime with the team.  That would only eliminate Lebron from that roster, I believe.   That's still a stout ass squad.

Posted

Don't think anybody takes down an MJ-led group of all-timers in a seven-game series ... and I don't even like Jordan.

Also, guys like Shaq, LeBron, the Glove, the Mailman, etc. should be included in the non-Laker roster (i.e., they qualify for both). And--as others have noted--the Lakers shouldn't be able to use them (other than Shaq) at their peak because they weren't in their prime when they played for L.A.

So in the end, the non-Lakers win easy. But it's still an interesting topic.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Fud said:

Shaq would offensively in one on one, but this defense offers a lot of schematic possibilities, plus then Shaq has to try and guard him

Defense at the 5 for the team that doesn't have Shaq is much more important. As much fun as Jokic is they don't need additional scoring/shooting - they already have the two most unguardable wings in NBA history and can always have shooting at the 1 and 3/4.

Not saying your lineup isn't good or wouldn't work - I just don't think you need to overthink it. 

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Posted
27 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Don't think anybody takes down an MJ-led group of all-timers in a seven-game series ... and I don't even like Jordan.

Also, guys like Shaq, LeBron, the Glove, the Mailman, etc. should be included in the non-Laker roster (i.e., they qualify for both). And--as others have noted--the Lakers shouldn't be able to use them (other than Shaq) at their peak because they weren't in their prime when they played for L.A.

So in the end, the non-Lakers win easy. But it's still an interesting topic.

I didn’t put it in the OP but let’s talk prime. Shaqs prime was with the lakers. But I think if we place Lebron on the non-Lakers it’s probably over

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Posted

These arguments are always moot if you don’t define what year the rules are in place and if players are peak or not. 
 

That said an all time Lakers team would have enough top ten greats to win it peak or not. 
 

And I hate the Lakers lol 

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Posted
On 4/13/2022 at 7:18 PM, Gil Bang said:

holy shit, the idea that Wilt would be on the bench behind anybody is beyond stupid.  

this.  I suppose if the exercise is their Laker selves MAYBE.  

I think the Laker list should be for guys who played most of their career there.  LBJ is a gun for hire.  Shaq is somewhat questionable 19 years in the league with 8 at LAL.  it was his absolute prime though.

I'd go West, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Baylor vs MJ, Bird, Wilt, LBJ, Robertson.  Russell/Wilt is potentially a tie.

Posted
45 minutes ago, Derka said:

Steph, MJ, Bird, KD, Jokic

vs

Magic, Kobe, LeBron, Kareem, Shaq

1) Oscar Robertson would be my starting PG, not Steph 

2) Magic goes for 42-10-10, but all-time Lakers lose. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Oscar Robertson would be my starting PG, not Steph 

i actually started off with oscar as my PG and then changed it to steph. i figured that jokic and bird have PG type vision and passing as well and that steph’s GOAT shooting ability, work rate, and floor spacing would give him a slight nod over oscar. but with that said, im not going to argue with anyone who wants to replace steph with oscar. The Big O gives that team even more size and passing ability. they would be a nightmare matchup either way.

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Posted

I’m all about Jokic but for this particular matchup and the common set of teammates offered up, don’t think we need him because we already have a bunch of the best offensive guys ever playing crunch time.  I want defensive freaks to throw at Shaq, Kareem, and Wilt.
 

Starters:  Oscar, MJ, Bird, Durant, Duncan

Bench:  Steph, Wade, Dirk, Pippen/KG, Hakeem

Posted
17 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

What style and rules? Today's game would not suit some of the all time greats IMO

street ball. play to 11 by 1’s and 2’s. players call fouls, no FTs, win by two.

Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

is it make it take it?

 double edit: i’m tripping, this is 5 v 5 with bench players, so throw my rules out. ideally it would still be played “street ball” style in the sense that there would be no referees, no FTs, players call their own fouls, etc.  o worries about hand checking or illegal defense, just two teams going at it for, let’s say, four 10 minute quarters.

Edited by Derka
Posted
6 hours ago, dcar00 said:

this.  I suppose if the exercise is their Laker selves MAYBE.  

I think the Laker list should be for guys who played most of their career there.  LBJ is a gun for hire.  Shaq is somewhat questionable 19 years in the league with 8 at LAL.  it was his absolute prime though.

I'd go West, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Baylor vs MJ, Bird, Wilt, LBJ, Robertson.  Russell/Wilt is potentially a tie.

Yup, I think you gotta stick Wilt on the non-LA team. By the time he got to cali, he was probably more focused on acquiring trim

  • Non LA years: All 4 MVPs, 36/24.7/4.5
  • LA years: No MVPs, 17.6/19.2/4.3

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Derka said:

 double edit: i’m tripping, this is 5 v 5 with bench players, so throw my rules out. ideally it would still be played “street ball” style in the sense that there would be no referees, no FTs, players call their own fouls, etc.  o worries about hand checking or illegal defense, just two teams going at it for, let’s say, four 10 minute quarters.

which, btw, means that my full roster (lets limit it to 10 deep) is not going to feature the 10 best players i can think of, but rather my best five man lineup + supplementary players. so for example i might go:

starters: steph, MJ, Bird, KD, Jokic

bench: ray allen, dennis rodman, KG, kawhi, hakeem 

Posted
15 hours ago, Blotto said:

Yup, I think you gotta stick Wilt on the non-LA team. By the time he got to cali, he was probably more focused on acquiring trim

  • Non LA years: All 4 MVPs, 36/24.7/4.5
  • LA years: No MVPs, 17.6/19.2/4.3

 

yep.  I can see Shaq being LA because it was his prime but Wilt is non-LA.  

I was just doing starters and trying not to just pick the 5 best but also by role.

It is difficult because you have 2 eras.  pre 3 pointer and post 3 pointer.  My 3 pointer era team would be different than 2 pointer era.  I tried to deal with it in the aggregate as best I could.  I leaned 2 pointer a) because I'm old and b) I have a sense if people like Kareem and Wilt grew up in this era they probably would have learned to shoot from outside more.  during the 2 pointer era there was no need for them to play outside 10 feet.

Posted
3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

yep.  I can see Shaq being LA because it was his prime but Wilt is non-LA.  

I was just doing starters and trying not to just pick the 5 best but also by role.

It is difficult because you have 2 eras.  pre 3 pointer and post 3 pointer.  My 3 pointer era team would be different than 2 pointer era.  I tried to deal with it in the aggregate as best I could.  I leaned 2 pointer a) because I'm old and b) I have a sense if people like Kareem and Wilt grew up in this era they probably would have learned to shoot from outside more.  during the 2 pointer era there was no need for them to play outside 10 feet.

No doubt, the three point shot and its value in today's game has fundamentally altered the sport. Its actually crazy that it didn't happen to such a large degree sooner. It took awhile to change the mindset of coaches I guess. And then Steph arrived on the scene and shit got crazy. the bump in the mid-90's correlates to when they moved the three point line in to a uniform 22 ft as opposed to the only 22 feet in the corners. 

image.png.b273e65217322e0d796b5f95b5390d5f.png

How much value does Steph even have pre-1980? He's certainly a really skilled player and would play in the league, but shooting from 30 ft out at a 42% clip would probably be frowned upon when it counts the same as the shots in the paint. I was too young in the 1980 to really give a shit about basketball theory and analytics (as they were), but I wonder if they had any idea of what it would lead to. Imagine if the NFL said touchdowns from 40+ yards out count for 10 pts, or homeruns greater than 444 ft added +1 additional run to the count. 

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Posted

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=nba+league+average+2+point+shooting+percentage+by+season+1971-72+to+2020-21

this is 1971 to 2021 league wide 2 point percentage by season.

basically it hit a bit above 49% early to mid 80's and then dropped back to 45-46% which is where it is now. be interesting to see 50's and 60's but I bet the percentage is around 43-44% back then maybe lower.

I couldn't find by year history on 3point but here it is by decade

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-league-wide-three-point-percentage-by-decade

It was 29% in the 80's and then has been basically 35-36% for 90's on with a small 1.5% improvement overall.  I can see the improvement from 80's being 3 things, college didn't adopt until 1986(even though line was/is shorter you still practiced longer shots), NBA coaches starting to run more plays to get open 3 point looks, and valuing a deep shooter in the draft more.

Posted
17 hours ago, MrX said:

I’m all about Jokic but for this particular matchup and the common set of teammates offered up, don’t think we need him because we already have a bunch of the best offensive guys ever playing crunch time.  I want defensive freaks to throw at Shaq, Kareem, and Wilt.
 

Starters:  Oscar, MJ, Bird, Durant, Duncan

Bench:  Steph, Wade, Dirk, Pippen/KG, Hakeem

Then you want bill russell somewhere on your team. 

Posted
32 minutes ago, Blotto said:

No doubt, the three point shot and its value in today's game has fundamentally altered the sport. Its actually crazy that it didn't happen to such a large degree sooner. It took awhile to change the mindset of coaches I guess. And then Steph arrived on the scene and shit got crazy. the bump in the mid-90's correlates to when they moved the three point line in to a uniform 22 ft as opposed to the only 22 feet in the corners. 

image.png.b273e65217322e0d796b5f95b5390d5f.png

How much value does Steph even have pre-1980? He's certainly a really skilled player and would play in the league, but shooting from 30 ft out at a 42% clip would probably be frowned upon when it counts the same as the shots in the paint. I was too young in the 1980 to really give a shit about basketball theory and analytics (as they were), but I wonder if they had any idea of what it would lead to. Imagine if the NFL said touchdowns from 40+ yards out count for 10 pts, or homeruns greater than 444 ft added +1 additional run to the count. 

steph would still extend the defense and allow for the bigs to have more room to operate.

he would also shoot 18 to 20 footers at a higher clip than 40%  maybe even close to 50%.  he is, to me, a pretty damn good ballhandler as well.

great shooters are great shooters no matter the era.

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