The Twitter Debate

[Amos Moses 795]

Ha! Have you been on the spring game thread today?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

35 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Might be the most pessimistic, Debbie downer post in the history of this site. 
 

 

 

[Michael Knight 12888]

Countdown until trump's twitter gets restored

[Foosters 17730]

3 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Twitter has a pretty massive moat in its lane of news dissemination/instant reaction punditry. That’s not going anywhere, and it’s not all political facing. There’s sports, financial news, crypto. I log on for those 3 things as much as anything. I think it’s a pretty clear path to opening up the algorithm to eliminate opaque shadow banning of some and prioritizing of others. And clean up the bots. 
 

As for how far speech will be allowed to go, he said recently he thinks terms should mimic the laws regulating free speech in the country. Does he know all that entails, probably not. 
 

Who gets allowed back in is another question. Dems here should pray to whoever they like and hope that Trump is let back on. It’s their best chance to deflect from current status of the country and minimize midterm losses. 
 

I also think it’s pretty likely that Twitter offices in some form move to Texas. That is awesome obviously for us. Gavin Newsome and California Dems have been such a gift to our state. They made it unbearable to live and work in such a beautiful state as California. Unbelievable. 
 

We’ll look back in 10-20 years and be amazed at what a windfall they gave us by pushing so much industry away. Tesla, SpaceX, Twitter just from the Elon sphere. Add all the other business not linked to Elon.

You're such a fucking idiot

[SydneyCarton 47870]

The only thing potentially worse than a primary communications platform own and operated by a public company and directors desperate to make a profit...is a primary communications platform owned and controlled entirely by one person who may or may not give a fuck about making any money. 

This...this is dangerous. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Like the Washington Post?

[Satchel 6908]

All we really know about Musk is that he’s an enthusiastic weed head. A lot is not known about his politics. Buyers beware.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 minutes ago, Satchel said:

All we really know about Musk is that he’s an enthusiastic weed head. A lot is not known about his politics. Buyers beware.

True.  Twitter sucks though.  There is some chance he makes it better.

[Captainant 27446]

Just now, Satchel said:

All we really know about Musk is that he’s an enthusiastic weed head. A lot is not known about his politics. Buyers beware.

I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why sack and vibes would love a billionaire that lets his employees say the n-word and racially profile at the workplace without consequence

[C-Man 27049]

17 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

This...this is dangerous. 

Potentially, yes. Very much so.

[Satchel 6908]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

True.  Twitter sucks though.  There is some chance he makes it better.

And and even greater chance he could make it worse.

[Neonmoon 38127]

As for the continued cry for open source algorithm. This is what a libertarian thinker says. They can say these things, but don't have to deal with the reality. 

https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/15/elon-musk-demonstrates-how-little-he-understands-about-content-moderation/

Quote

Anderson asks Musk why he wants to buy Twitter and Elon responds:

Well, I think it’s really important for there to be an inclusive arena for free speech. Twitter has become the de facto town square, so, it’s really important that people have both the reality and the perception that they’re able to speak freely within the bounds of the law. And one of the things I believe Twitter should do is open source the algorithm, and make any changes to people’s tweets — if they’re emphasized or de-emphasized — that should be made apparent so that anyone can see that action has been taken.  So there’s no sort of behind-the-scenes manipulation, either algorithmically or manually.

First, again, this is the same sort of thing that early Twitter and Facebook and other platform people said in the early days. And then they found out it doesn’t work for reasons that will be discussed shortly. Second, Twitter is not the town square, and it’s a ridiculous analogy. The internet itself is the town square. Twitter is just one private shop in that town square with its own rules.

There’s then a slightly more interesting discussion of open sourcing the algorithm, which is its own can of worms that I’m not sure Musk understands. I’m all for more transparency, and the ability for competing algorithms to be available for moderation, but open sourcing it is different and not as straightforward as Musk seems to imply. First of all, it’s often not the algorithm that is the issue. Second, algorithms that are built up in a proprietary stack are not so easy to just randomly “open source” without revealing all sorts of other stuff. Third, the biggest beneficiaries of open sourcing the ranking algorithm will be spammers (which is doubly amusing because in just a few moments Musk is going to whine about spammers). Open sourcing the algorithm will be most interesting to those looking to abuse and game the system to promote their own stuff.

 

[SydneyCarton 47870]

 

19 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Like the Washington Post?

or the NY Post, for the last 50+ years, by Rupert Murdoch?

Traditional media has been in decline with the advent of new options for decades. It's why they keep shuttering and sold. 

The Washington Post had 88 million digital users in the month of February. Twitter has 206 million unique twitter users PER DAY. You don't see the difference there?

Regardless of your political affiliation, this is like one man buying one of the major 3 TV networks in the 80s and without the existence of the FCC or any kind of oversight.

 

This is dangerous.

[High Plains Drifter 10971]

50 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Countdown until trump's twitter gets restored

 

 

And we slide a little closer to becoming an oligarchy.

 

Or (depending on far out on the ledge you are),

We become even more of an oligarchy.

 

 

[Aqua Buddha 14503]

Trump getting back on Twitter would be a gift for the Democrats.

[Neonmoon 38127]

Doubling down on open source algorithms

 

"First, again, this is the same sort of thing that early Twitter and Facebook and other platform people said in the early days. And then they found out it doesn’t work for reasons that will be discussed shortly. Second, Twitter is not the town square, and it’s a ridiculous analogy. The internet itself is the town square. Twitter is just one private shop in that town square with its own rules.

There’s then a slightly more interesting discussion of open sourcing the algorithm, which is its own can of worms that I’m not sure Musk understands. I’m all for more transparency, and the ability for competing algorithms to be available for moderation, but open sourcing it is different and not as straightforward as Musk seems to imply. First of all, it’s often not the algorithm that is the issue. Second, algorithms that are built up in a proprietary stack are not so easy to just randomly “open source” without revealing all sorts of other stuff. Third, the biggest beneficiaries of open sourcing the ranking algorithm will be spammers (which is doubly amusing because in just a few moments Musk is going to whine about spammers). Open sourcing the algorithm will be most interesting to those looking to abuse and game the system to promote their own stuff."

[Biff Tannen 45492]

6 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Second, Twitter is not the town square, and it’s a ridiculous analogy. The internet itself is the town square. Twitter is just one private shop in that town square with its own rules.

This is something that isn't apparent to a lot of people that frequent Twitter.  Hell, until a few days ago, I thought the same.  Twitter is WAY smaller than facebook and not a huge player in the grand scheme of social media.  Something like 3 in 10 Americans "use" Twitter, compared to 7 in 10 for Facebook.  Furthermore, 10% of Twitter users contribute like 90% of the content.  

The influence Twitter has is severely overstated.  Us degenerates on message boards think it is more important than it is.

[Captainant 27446]

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

or the NY Post, for the last 50+ years, by Rupert Murdoch?

Traditional media has been in decline with the advent of new options for decades. It's why they keep shuttering and sold. 

The Washington Post had 88 million digital users in the month of February. Twitter has 206 million unique twitter users PER DAY. You don't see the difference there?

Regardless of your political affiliation, this is like one man buying one of the major 3 TV networks in the 80s and without the existence of the FCC or any kind of oversight.

 

This is dangerous.

IMO, the internet is specifically different from TV channels in the 80s with limited broadcast spectrum. Twitter has an audience built, but their (surface level, user interface) technology is super basic. Hell, even trump was able to build a twitter knockoff by cloning a github repo lol.

I've said it before and I'll keep repeating it: we should not be worried about which specific platform is fucking you over. We should be worried about how they're fucking us over. Because it's powered via the massive collection and sale of OUR data and private information. We should treat the cause, not a symptom.

[SizzleChest 8275]

29 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Like the Washington Post?

[Tom 2959]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is something that isn't apparent to a lot of people that frequent Twitter.  Hell, until a few days ago, I thought the same.  Twitter is WAY smaller than facebook and not a huge player in the grand scheme of social media.  Something like 3 in 10 Americans "use" Twitter, compared to 7 in 10 for Facebook.  Furthermore, 10% of Twitter users contribute like 90% of the content. 

 

I, too, listen to Pod Save America.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

33 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Like the Washington Post?

The Washington Post isn't a communication platform. It's a corporation for journalism with a track record that includes being primarily responsible for uncovering Watergate. That being said, Bezos is a fuckhead. Maybe even more than Elon, whom I heard runs an international pedo ring out of the basement of his Tesla plant. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

38 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

The only thing potentially worse than a primary communications platform own and operated by a public company and directors desperate to make a profit...is a primary communications platform owned and controlled entirely by one person who may or may not give a fuck about making any money. 

This...this is dangerous. 

The chance of this really being “dangerous” is pretty low.

 

This is great news honestly. Right now we have essentially two sides of mass/social media. Establishment side and the Fox News side. I think a potential 3rd approach with a different filter that entirely satisfies neither side is a good thing. 
 

I doubt he’ll make massive waves because he doesn’t want to be bogged down in Congress and regulations. He’s shown he can toe the line to avoid scrutiny when he needs to. See his coziness with China. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

I guess if I were in a business model that seriously relied on Twitter I'd have some concerns.  But overall I find the communication style of Twitter to be something I have been mostly dis-engaging from as a whole.  Certainly enjoy random humorous tweets that get posted here.  But often I find I'm clicking on the link to the story within a tweet.  Which means someone could just as easily bypass Twitter and just post the link to the story itself.

I have not had a Facebook account for quite some time, and was already very, very rarely going to tweetdeck to check my curated feeds.  As to Zuckerberg, Murdoch, Bezos, Musk, I root  for the guillotines every time.  Always pulling for the underdogs.

Quote

 We should treat the cause, not a symptom.

To do that I think we would have to go further back and go to things like Citizens United (and that one case after which everyone says was effectively worse, but I forget its name).   We have been aware of being batteries for the Matrix for some time.  Time and again we have seen how we are all already under corporate control, and there isn't a damn effective thing we can do about it that I have seen.  The entire system is rotted out, imo, and even certain 'core' ideas and tenets imo don't make sense in 2022, but that's another discussion.

All that said, I still confess to browsing Instagram for hot model action snowboarding and action sports clips. Just don't read the comments.  Ever. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

5 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

The chance of this really being “dangerous” is pretty low.

The anti-social influence of concentrated power, even amongst altruistic individuals, is observable in replicable social experiments by behavioral scientists. It is almost assuredly an ultimately bad thing and illustrates the need for what the right redundantly characterizes as "social engineering", as if that's not what has always happened. 

[Satchel 6908]

54 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

or the NY Post, for the last 50+ years, by Rupert Murdoch?

Traditional media has been in decline with the advent of new options for decades. It's why they keep shuttering and sold. 

The Washington Post had 88 million digital users in the month of February. Twitter has 206 million unique twitter users PER DAY. You don't see the difference there?

Regardless of your political affiliation, this is like one man buying one of the major 3 TV networks in the 80s and without the existence of the FCC or any kind of oversight.

 

This is dangerous.

Traditional media died when they ceased being public trusts and became profit centers for corporations. It’s interesting to me that we can attach moral and ethical lenses to virtually everything except for how we make money. It is now an accepted practice for journalists to withhold and monetize information that serves the public interest. 

['stache 21769]

6 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Traditional media died when they ceased being public trusts and became profit centers for corporations. It’s interesting to me that we can attach moral and ethical lenses to virtually everything except for how we make money. It is now an accepted practice for journalists to withhold and monetize information that serves the public interest. 

So you're a fan of NPR and PBS news? I know I am.

[HenryJames 65888]

Getting rid of bots will be an Augean task.

[wildcat09 29233]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

All we really know about Musk is that he’s an enthusiastic weed head. A lot is not known about his politics. Buyers beware.

We know his politics.

[Satchel 6908]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

We know his politics.

We’re about to learn a lot more about his politics. That’s for damn sure.

[tx 3 putt 76344]

Curious to see what the stock price does when he adds back the orange idiot 

[wildcat09 29233]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is something that isn't apparent to a lot of people that frequent Twitter.  Hell, until a few days ago, I thought the same.  Twitter is WAY smaller than facebook and not a huge player in the grand scheme of social media.  Something like 3 in 10 Americans "use" Twitter, compared to 7 in 10 for Facebook.  Furthermore, 10% of Twitter users contribute like 90% of the content.  

The influence Twitter has is severely overstated.  Us degenerates on message boards think it is more important than it is.

All of these are good things to keep in mind and, combined with the problems he'd run into trying to loosen moderation, are why in one sense I'm not overly worried about this. Though I don't love giving Elon fucking Musk access to everyone's DMs and whatever info twitter requires to authenticate users. He's pretty near the top of the list of people I would expect to abuse that power. 

However, despite Twitter's relatively small user base, it has disproportionate cultural influence because it's where all of the "elites" talk to each other. It's replaced the New York Times as the driver of what is the major news of the day for a lot of the media, it's where politicians frequently signal to each other, etc. It plays a really major role in modern American politics. Considering that, it's not great that House Republicans just threatened the Twitter board with political retribution if they didn't sell to Elon. There's no reason to think he won't put the thumb on the scales to help out the GOP, much the way Facebook has.

Edited April 25, 2022 by wildcat09

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

55 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Getting rid of bots will be an Augean task.

 

[TexasHooch 5117]

I guess we'll see what happens with Twitter, but for now I'll just say that I'm relieved that Elon isn't a natural born citizen.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

1 hour ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

The anti-social influence of concentrated power, even amongst altruistic individuals, is observable in replicable social experiments by behavioral scientists. It is almost assuredly an ultimately bad thing and illustrates the need for what the right redundantly characterizes as "social engineering", as if that's not what has always happened. 

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

"You're going to get sick of all the winning"

"You have to learn how to die if you want to wanna be alive"

 

[Anastasis 23393]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Though I don't love giving Elon fucking Musk access to everyone's DMs

Elon taking a page out of the hornfans moderator's playbook?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Furthermore, one needs not to look beyond Russia's systemic results in Ukraine- deplorable, humiliating actions informed by a reality-denying narcissism of its unchallenged (due to its authoritarianism) leadership.

 

[Radical Larry 28528]

Elon taking a page out of the hornfans moderator's playbook?

If he adds a blinking envelope emoji, I’m out.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

😝 

[Caponata 151]

Wouldn't having everyone verified be a good thing? No more pet avatars & bots spamming/trolling every fucking Twitter thread. 

[Caponata 151]

6 hours ago, Satchel said:

All we really know about Musk is that he’s an enthusiastic weed head. A lot is not known about his politics. Buyers beware.

Is he? Thought his first puff ever was on Rogan. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

 

[CowboyFred 1151]

31 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

😝 

Actually that chucklefuck is getting ready to go back into court when his bankruptcy delay tactic gets torn down.

 

I guess I missed the memo where musk is some hardcore right winger and that is why right wingers/GQPs are now going crazy with random ass “free speech” quotes. Not sure what’s going on there but can’t wait for the inevitable let down tears.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

3 minutes ago, CowboyFred said:

Actually that chucklefuck is getting ready to go back into court when his bankruptcy delay tactic gets torn down.

 

I guess I missed the memo where musk is some hardcore right winger and that is why right wingers/GQPs are now going crazy with random ass “free speech” quotes. Not sure what’s going on there but can’t wait for the inevitable let down tears.

Alex Jones physical appearance is just objectively funny. 
 

 

[Captainant 27446]

43 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

😝 

So you're down with sandy hook truthers? Classic GRUhorn and sack ❤️

[Bama Chick 28596]

Wouldn't having everyone verified be a good thing? No more pet avatars & bots spamming/trolling every fucking Twitter thread. 

Not for women or other marginalized people that could be subjected to harassment or real life shit.

I don’t post as “myself” here because I don’t like pervy messages.

I don’t post as “myself” on Twitter because I don’t want my real life friends and colleagues to know about my obsession with Harry Styles and Jonathan Bailey (embarrassing) or my vocal politics (could be damaging to my career and could ostracize me socially).

I post as myself of Facebook because I only accept IRL people on there and I HEAVILY censor myself - I’ll share work stuff, pictures and updates on my kids, and random social stuff. NEVER about politics. NEVER. Hell. I rarely even post about Alabama football anymore because I have a lot of AU, FSU, UGA, UF, UTenn, and LSU family and friends who still get way too butthurt about it.

There’s plenty of good reasons to keep a degree of anonymity on these sites.

I’m sure if I attracted a dedicated enough adversary, they could figure out who I am on here and on Twitter but it’s good enough to silo my online activities as a regular person and very online person.

Plus, how will they verify? Want a copy of my driver’s license? My SS number?

Fuck ALL THAT. I don’t want Dorsey or Zuckerberg or especially Musk having that.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

3 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Not for women or other marginalized people that could be subjected to harassment or real life shit.

I don’t post as “myself” here because I don’t like pervy messages.

I don’t post as “myself” on Twitter because I don’t want my real life friends and colleagues to know about my obsession with Harry Styles and Jonathan Bailey (embarrassing) or my vocal politics (could be damaging to my career and could ostracize me socially).

I post as myself of Facebook because I only accept IRL people on there and I HEAVILY censor myself - I’ll share work stuff, pictures and updates on my kids, and random social stuff. NEVER about politics. NEVER. Hell. I rarely even post about Alabama football anymore because I have a lot of AU, FSU, UGA, UF, UTenn, and LSU family and friends who still get way too butthurt about it.

There’s plenty of good reasons to keep a degree of anonymity on these sites.

I’m sure if I attracted a dedicated enough adversary, they could figure out who I am on here and on Twitter but it’s good enough to silo my online activities as a regular person and very online person.

Plus, how will they verify? Want a copy of my driver’s license? My SS number?

Fuck ALL THAT. I don’t want Dorsey or Zuckerberg or especially Musk having that.

Agree. Nyms are important. 

[tx 3 putt 76344]

26 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

8 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 or my vocal politics (could be damaging to my career and could ostracize me socially).
 

Me to celebrity millionaire conservatives- Hey! Welcome to Cancel Culture, Johnny On the Spot! Let me show ya round the club, you poor dear.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]