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NBA Playoffs 2022

Vic Mackey

By Vic Mackey
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Irieguy

Irieguy 1059

Posted
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25 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Anthony Edwards is fucking awesome. I wonder if he’s going to go Jimmy Butler on KAT?

He doesn’t seem to have that “hates to lose” mentality. Yet. A few years of the team not reaching potential could change that. 

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Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

I bet Chris Paul's mom could use a hug right about now. 

Braff Zacklin
Braff Zacklin

I don't get why the Warriors were average without Curry and Draymond. Wish someone would take a moment to explain it to me.

Dutchrudder
Dutchrudder

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8798

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Posted
Can we get a wellness check on [mention=37]MNLonghornFUKM[/mention]this morning?
I'm not one to bag on KAT - okay that's a lie -but Memphis realized that Adams was unplayable in this series about two minutes into game 2 and has played small ball ever since and fucking Townes won't get his ass down on the block and pound them inside. You're seven feet tall for fucks sake. If the world's best shooting big man can't punish them from five feet in, then at least make them pay on the glass. The few times he did post up, usually from about 12 feet out - they sent doubles and got good shots. But four shots, five rebounds, five fouls isn't getting it done. I suppose he did block five shots. But holy Brad Sellers, does he have a paint allergy that we don't know about? 

My prediction the rest of the series:

Kat bounces back tomorrow. We can’t afford to have KAT guarding Clarke or JJJ right away due to the fact that Morant is going to launch himself at kat to try and get a cheap whistle. Refs didn’t call thatBS much last night but we can’t afford to have get a foul or 2 in the first2.5 min. I’d almost make a line up change.

Id start with DLO, ant, mcdaniels, vandy and kat. I’d have ant and mcdaniels switch between Clark and Morant. Kat stays out of the paint to guard brooks. We may give up some rebounds but it beats kat having 3 fouls in the first 8 min.

I think MN wins tomorrow, and the pressure switches back to Memphis goes back to MN down 3-2.

Memphis wins in 5 if they win tomorrow, if this goes to 6 or 7, Memphis will probably win in some heart breaking fashion because it’s the MN way
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18939

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So this was very fascinating on the Simmons POD (for the people talking about KAT being a lose) if you go back and look at the last 30 years worth of #1 draft picks (top over all) it's just brutal.  KAT is probably a top 12 #1 overall draft pick going back to CWEBB- which is 31 or 32 years now and pretty generous. In case you don't believe me- here is the list in my rank order:

LBJ, Duncan, Shaq, AI, Dwert Howard, Kyrie, AD, Weber, Yao, Griffin, Rose, KAT, Brand, 

 

Guys I think he's clearly better than:  Glenn Robinson, Joe Smith, Olowokandi, Kenyon Martin, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Andrea Bargnani, Greg Oden, John Wall, Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, Ben Simmons, Markelle Fultz.


I will give INC to Ayton, Zion, Edwards and Cunningham for now.  

 

So- Kat or Elton Brand is probably the median for success for a #1 overall draft pick for the last 30 years.  That's tough man.  You have 3 inner circle HOF'ers, you have 7 HOFers, you have 3 or so multi time allstars, guys that hover around 3rd team all NBA, then you have 5 or 7 starters/rotation players and 10 injuries/busts.  That's not as good as I would have thought instinctively for the #1 overall pick.

 

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18502

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38 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


My prediction the rest of the series:

Kat bounces back tomorrow. We can’t afford to have KAT guarding Clarke or JJJ right away due to the fact that Morant is going to launch himself at kat to try and get a cheap whistle. Refs didn’t call thatBS much last night but we can’t afford to have get a foul or 2 in the first2.5 min. I’d almost make a line up change.

Id start with DLO, ant, mcdaniels, vandy and kat. I’d have ant and mcdaniels switch between Clark and Morant. Kat stays out of the paint to guard brooks. We may give up some rebounds but it beats kat having 3 fouls in the first 8 min.

I think MN wins tomorrow, and the pressure switches back to Memphis goes back to MN down 3-2.

Memphis wins in 5 if they win tomorrow, if this goes to 6 or 7, Memphis will probably win in some heart breaking fashion because it’s the MN way

I appreciate your optimism, but my prediction would be closer to:

Minnesota comes out with their hair on fire in game 4 and gets out to a solid 10ish point lead in first quarter. Memphis comes back and either ties or leads at halftime. The Wolves spend halftime thinking that they've seen this movie before and Memphis runs them in the second half. They go back to Memphis for game 5 where again the Wolves come out hot and then by halftime after Memphis walks them down, the Wolves are all booking flights to Cancun.

I hope I'm wrong. I would really like a long series.

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 12853

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2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

So this was very fascinating on the Simmons POD (for the people talking about KAT being a lose) if you go back and look at the last 30 years worth of #1 draft picks (top over all) it's just brutal.  KAT is probably a top 12 #1 overall draft pick going back to CWEBB- which is 31 or 32 years now and pretty generous. In case you don't believe me- here is the list in my rank order:

LBJ, Duncan, Shaq, AI, Dwert Howard, Kyrie, AD, Weber, Yao, Griffin, Rose, KAT, Brand, 

 

Guys I think he's clearly better than:  Glenn Robinson, Joe Smith, Olowokandi, Kenyon Martin, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Andrea Bargnani, Greg Oden, John Wall, Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, Ben Simmons, Markelle Fultz.


I will give INC to Ayton, Zion, Edwards and Cunningham for now.  

 

So- Kat or Elton Brand is probably the median for success for a #1 overall draft pick for the last 30 years.  That's tough man.  You have 3 inner circle HOF'ers, you have 7 HOFers, you have 3 or so multi time allstars, guys that hover around 3rd team all NBA, then you have 5 or 7 starters/rotation players and 10 injuries/busts.  That's not as good as I would have thought instinctively for the #1 overall pick.

 

Has to do with early entrants and the rise of AAU all star teams, before you had a pretty finished product so you knew what a player was gonna be. Now there's so little actual development of the top prospects that you're drafting purely on potential. You never know if you're getting Ja Morant or Lonzo Ball

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18939

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Just now, Michael Knight said:

Has to do with early entrants and the rise of AAU all star teams, before you had a pretty finished product so you knew what a player was gonna be. Now there's so little actual development of the top prospects that you're drafting purely on potential. You never know if you're getting Ja Morant or Lonzo Ball

And neither of those guys went #1 overall (I know you were just making a point,) but it's interesting to see how many years you could have nabbed a superstar if you just had the benefit of hindsight.

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 12853

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15 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

And neither of those guys went #1 overall (I know you were just making a point,) but it's interesting to see how many years you could have nabbed a superstar if you just had the benefit of hindsight.

I don't doubt that extra year helped Morant alot and if Zion had played anther year he would have been injured again which would have raised more red flags so he wouldn't have gone #1

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7667

Posted
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13 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Gotta applaud your commitment to the bit.

Yeah, anyone who thinks this playoff series is in any way a bad reflection on Jokic hasn't been watching or is just trolling.  Dude is just a machine.  Goes out there and gives you everything every night.  And he's averaging 29/13/5 in this series.  But the Nugs are gonna lose for the same reason the Warriors sucked when Klay was out.  

I don't know if anyone is going to beat this GS team.  When you've got 3 guys averaging 25 a game plus Draymond doing his shit on defense I don't know how you stop that.

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ztejas

ztejas 43198

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49 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I don't know if anyone is going to beat this GS team.  When you've got 3 guys averaging 25 a game plus Draymond doing his shit on defense I don't know how you stop that.

They're as much a threat to win it as anyone, but Denver isn't much of a litmus test. Their perimeter D is just atrocious which isn't a great recipe for checking Curry, Poole and Klay. Granted Ja is a poor defender which could present it's own matchup issues. 

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HookEm

HookEm 2436

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

LBJ, Duncan, Shaq, AI, Dwert Howard, Kyrie, AD, Weber, Yao, Griffin, Rose, KAT, Brand, 

Guys I think he's clearly better than:  Glenn Robinson, Joe Smith, Olowokandi, Kenyon Martin, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Andrea Bargnani, Greg Oden, John Wall, Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, Ben Simmons, Markelle Fultz.

I will give INC to Ayton, Zion, Edwards and Cunningham for now.  

I would rank the middle guys as follows:  

  • Ben Simmons - 3x All-Star, 1x 3rd Team All-NBA, 2x All Defense, 19 playoff wins   (4 seasons)
  • John Wall - 5x All-Star, 1x 3rd Team All-NBA, 1x All-Defense, 20 playoff wins  (10 seasons)
  • KAT - 3x All-star, 1x 3rd Team All-NBA, 2 playoff wins  (7 seasons)
  • Elton Brand - 2x All-Star, 1x 2nd Team All-NBA, 20 playoff wins (17 seasons)
  • Wiggins - 1x All-Star, 3 playoff wins (8 seasons) - but trending positively

Ben Simmons, while a bitch recently, is younger and already more accomplished than KAT.  He has legit DPoY potential and may be a key piece on a title team soon.  Also people forget how good John Wall was a few years ago.  He literally has 10x the playoff wins vs. KAT as the best player on the team.

As Bill Simmons mentioned, KAT has extremely low basketball IQ.  He fouls and turns the ball over at the worst possible times, leading to losses.  Here are his cumulative stats in the play-in game + playoffs this year:  19 fouls, 16 turnovers, -23 +/- 

He is constantly in foul trouble FOR NO REASON. He goes after stupid offensive boards against the best transition team in the NBA (often leading to bonehead fouls).  

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14464

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16 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Yeah, Denver is stuck with most of this roster for now.

I was thinking of that.  We can all agree that Utah is at the end of their "time," but is Denver basically stuck with where they're at right now?  Jokic is in his prime but they're saddled with that Michael Porter contract.  They're not going to be terrible but they're not going to get better.  Are they stuck as a 4/5 seed for the foreseeable future?

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18939

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3 hours ago, HookEm said:

I would rank the middle guys as follows:  

  • Ben Simmons - 3x All-Star, 1x 3rd Team All-NBA, 2x All Defense, 19 playoff wins   (4 seasons)
  • John Wall - 5x All-Star, 1x 3rd Team All-NBA, 1x All-Defense, 20 playoff wins  (10 seasons)
  • KAT - 3x All-star, 1x 3rd Team All-NBA, 2 playoff wins  (7 seasons)
  • Elton Brand - 2x All-Star, 1x 2nd Team All-NBA, 20 playoff wins (17 seasons)
  • Wiggins - 1x All-Star, 3 playoff wins (8 seasons) - but trending positively

Ben Simmons, while a bitch recently, is younger and already more accomplished than KAT.  He has legit DPoY potential and may be a key piece on a title team soon.  Also people forget how good John Wall was a few years ago.  He literally has 10x the playoff wins vs. KAT as the best player on the team.

As Bill Simmons mentioned, KAT has extremely low basketball IQ.  He fouls and turns the ball over at the worst possible times, leading to losses.  Here are his cumulative stats in the play-in game + playoffs this year:  19 fouls, 16 turnovers, -23 +/- 

He is constantly in foul trouble FOR NO REASON. He goes after stupid offensive boards against the best transition team in the NBA (often leading to bonehead fouls).  

Walls career is done. KAT is 25. Simmons is bitch made. I don’t think KAT is though he might be a moron. There’s some projection going on when I’m ranking those 3 but I think I’m going to be right when it’s all said and done. 
You aren’t wrong in anything you say. 

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7667

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2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I was thinking of that.  We can all agree that Utah is at the end of their "time," but is Denver basically stuck with where they're at right now?  Jokic is in his prime but they're saddled with that Michael Porter contract.  They're not going to be terrible but they're not going to get better.  Are they stuck as a 4/5 seed for the foreseeable future?

Murray is a 20+ ppg guy who got hurt almost exactly a year ago.  They are a different team with him in the lineup.  If MPJ can't get healthy then I might agree that they're a 4/5 seed, but shit, Jokic got them to a 6 seed without both of them.  When healthy the Nuggets are a very good team.  Jokic, Murray, MPJ, Gordon and Barton/Bones is a solid starting 5.

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2620

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3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Murray is a 20+ ppg guy who got hurt almost exactly a year ago.  They are a different team with him in the lineup.  If MPJ can't get healthy then I might agree that they're a 4/5 seed, but shit, Jokic got them to a 6 seed without both of them.  When healthy the Nuggets are a very good team.  Jokic, Murray, MPJ, Gordon and Barton/Bones is a solid starting 5.

That little Spanish dude is a good bench guy too

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ztejas

ztejas 43198

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13 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Walls career is done. KAT is 25. Simmons is bitch made. I don’t think KAT is though he might be a moron. There’s some projection going on when I’m ranking those 3 but I think I’m going to be right when it’s all said and done. 
You aren’t wrong in anything you say. 

You're having your cake and eating it a bit too, here. If we're ranking these guys on career up to this point I'm taking Wall over KAT. If we're projecting who is going to wind up having a better career between KAT and Simmons I think Simmons has more upside. Maybe he does have some mental stuff he can never work through but I think it's almost as likely that he just needed out of Philly to take a step back and approach the next part of his career differently. KAT meanwhile is in his 7th season playing for a city where he has zero pressure to do anything and can be celebrated basically immortally for just doing something like making the conference finals. I'm not sure what he's doing right now is any better than Simmons in the playoffs last season and it might be worse. I feel like I know who KAT is at this point while Simmons is young enough to where I have a bit more hope he could figure it out and take a leap. Especially with guys like Nash and KD in his ear. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43198

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10 minutes ago, Llogg said:

No argument that he is not a guy you can play all game but he can give you good energy and a quick burst off the bench. He's a net positive is all I'm saying.

He's okay. He's unplayable in this series. He was a -10 in like 4 minutes last night. 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2620

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44 minutes ago, ztejas said:

He's okay. He's unplayable in this series. He was a -10 in like 4 minutes last night. 

plus/minus is not a great stat for evaluating player value, especially for a single game. He's a  very slightly positive VORP guy, which is exactly what I'm saying he is.

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Serak The Preparer

Serak The Preparer 3421

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19 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Hahaha Jokic gets punked as usual come playoff time. 

Here's an opportunity for growth. I know you get excited when you see that word so let me clarify, personal growth. Shit, I mean mental growth. Fuck it, I mean not an NBA meme.

Who is the 2nd best Nugget? This is a simple question. A more complex question is: how does this compare to literally every other NBA team's second best player? I'm not even talking playoff team, I mean every team.

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ztejas

ztejas 43198

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12 minutes ago, Llogg said:

plus/minus is not a great stat for evaluating player value, especially for a single game. He's a  very slightly positive VORP guy, which is exactly what I'm saying he is.

Right. He's okay and unplayable against GS. I'm not sure what we're debating. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18939

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

You're having your cake and eating it a bit too, here. If we're ranking these guys on career up to this point I'm taking Wall over KAT. If we're projecting who is going to wind up having a better career between KAT and Simmons I think Simmons has more upside. Maybe he does have some mental stuff he can never work through but I think it's almost as likely that he just needed out of Philly to take a step back and approach the next part of his career differently. KAT meanwhile is in his 7th season playing for a city where he has zero pressure to do anything and can be celebrated basically immortally for just doing something like making the conference finals. I'm not sure what he's doing right now is any better than Simmons in the playoffs last season and it might be worse. I feel like I know who KAT is at this point while Simmons is young enough to where I have a bit more hope he could figure it out and take a leap. Especially with guys like Nash and KD in his ear. 

We will see. I don’t think Simmons has any desire to be good at (or even play for that matter) the game of basketball. He does just enough to get his next contract and then shuts it down is my bet. 
I trust KAT way more than Simmons to show up and give a shit. And this isn’t because I trust KAT a whole lot. 
we will see. Bookmark this for 7 years from now. If only we had a search function.  

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21468

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7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

We will see. I don’t think Simmons has any desire to be good at (or even play for that matter) the game of basketball. He does just enough to get his next contract and then shuts it down is my bet. 
I trust KAT way more than Simmons to show up and give a shit. And this isn’t because I trust KAT a whole lot. 
we will see. Bookmark this for 7 years from now. If only we had a search function.  

I wouldn’t want to pay either of them a max salary.

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