Austin housing affordability crisis

[sidis 9754]

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Are you arguing that Texas’ method of taxation through property is contributing to the affordability crisis?

If you are talking to me, then my primary point was in response to the idiocy of the fat slob (who is actually dumb enough to use terms like “woke”) injecting the notion that Texas was a relative low tax environment in a thread about Austin affordability. Austin is subsidizing the state to allow everyone else to be a “low tax” environment. 

but of course, property taxes that don’t adjust for actual budget needs (because the excess is used to subsidize the rest of the state) while the values skyrocket are contributing significant additional costs to home ownership in the Austin area. It is almost $3k a month for me. I can deal with it but that is a massive barrier for the non-wealthy. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

Yes it is, among other things. Texas taxation method definitely fucks over more homebuyers than other states. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

18 minutes ago, sidis said:

If you are talking to me, then my primary point was in response to the idiocy of the fat slob (who is actually dumb enough to use terms like “woke”) injecting the notion that Texas was a relative low tax environment in a thread about Austin affordability. Austin is subsidizing the state to allow everyone else to be a “low tax” environment. 

but of course, property taxes that don’t adjust for actual budget needs (because the excess is used to subsidize the rest of the state) while the values skyrocket are contributing significant additional costs to home ownership in the Austin area. It is almost $3k a month for me. I can deal with it but that is a massive barrier for the non-wealthy. 

So you don’t like Robinhood?

[jimmyjazz 45560]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

So you don’t like Robinhood?

One can be in favor of a plan that requires wealthier school districts to help fund poorer school districts without being in favor of the manner in which Robin Hood accomplishes it.

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

21 minutes ago, sidis said:

If you are talking to me, then my primary point was in response to the idiocy of the fat slob (who is actually dumb enough to use terms like “woke”) injecting the notion that Texas was a relative low tax environment in a thread about Austin affordability. Austin is subsidizing the state to allow everyone else to be a “low tax” environment. 

but of course, property taxes that don’t adjust for actual budget needs (because the excess is used to subsidize the rest of the state) while the values skyrocket are contributing significant additional costs to home ownership in the Austin area. It is almost $3k a month for me. I can deal with it but that is a massive barrier for the non-wealthy. 

You’re paying 3k a month in property taxes? Good for you…I guess?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

One can be in favor of a plan that requires wealthier school districts to help fund poorer school districts without being in favor of the manner in which Robin Hood accomplishes it.

White rich Austin libs don’t want to share their wealth.  

[jimmyjazz 45560]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

White rich Austin libs don’t want to share their wealth.  

100% in line with your contributions to this site, which is to say . . . worthless.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

100% in line with your contributions to this site, which is to say . . . worthless.

My kids have used zero dollars of public schools.  I just laugh at rich white libs bitching about Robinhood.  NIMBY at its best. 

[sidis 9754]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

So you don’t like Robinhood?

of course i like robin hood.  it is a worthwhile program when executed correctly.

not surprisingly, you are not understanding the point...

[HOOKEM4 5023]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

My kids have used zero dollars of public schools.  I just laugh at rich white libs bitching about Robinhood.  NIMBY at its best. 

Again...nothing.

Tell us more about how you are rich and haven't used any public resources to get there. All on your own...lulz.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, sidis said:

of course i like robin hood.  it is a worthwhile program when executed correctly.

not surprisingly, you are not understanding the point...

Let us know how it should be done.  And how white wealthy Austin should pay in less.  

Edited April 20, 2022 by Johnny Sack

[jimmyjazz 45560]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

Let us know how it should be done.  

Maybe don't have School District A, which is 40% the size of School District B, outfund B by a factor of over 3.5X?  Is this hard for you?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Maybe don't have School District A, which is 40% the size of School District B, outfund B by a factor of over 3.5X?  Is this hard for you?

I don’t think you understand the concept of equity.  

[TexArcher 37519]

18 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

So you don’t like Robinhood?

This is like asking someone who wants welfare reform if they don't like welfare.

People can agree on a need and disagree on how it's being addressed.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don’t think you understand the concept of equity.  

You of all people should not be levying that accusation.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You of all people should not be levying that accusation.

Liberals are very generous with other’s money.  And have gator arms when it comes time to reach into their own pockets.  It’s always been that way.  

[jimmyjazz 45560]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Liberals are very generous with other’s money.  And have gator arms when it comes time to reach into their own pockets.  It’s always been that way.  

Rich people are the country's biggest welfare recipients.  Enjoy.

[TexArcher 37519]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Liberals are very generous with other’s money.  And have gator arms when it comes time to reach into their own pockets.  It’s always been that way.  

I'll take "Common Right Wing Talking Point Misconceptions," for one thousand, Alex.

[Stunns38 3357]

When the average wage in this country is 50k, 500k is not a cheap home.
I would kill to be able to buy a place like mine for 500k.  My entry for a similar apartment that I have now is the $1.5 - $2.0 million range.  Now, NYC is different than Austin, but we even more forces that drive up prices, like significant foreign investment, criminal activity (real estate market is used for money laundering), and then all those folks who live elsewhere and have an apartment in NYC (that is part of the reason Studios and 1BDMs are much more $$$).  It is fucking insane.

Here’s another thing about NYC housing that’ll piss you off. Many who were low-income 30 years ago still hold on to their rent-stabilized and subsidized Apts while owning a place in the burbs. I’ve done audits where Section 8 tenants in midtown West had assets in the Hampton’s but old rules allowed them to hold on to their Apts. They pay the max allowable rent which is tons below market. They qualified for those units legally but once they hit over the max income mark, most units don’t go up to true market rents. Therefore, NYC has a pied a terre problem subsidized by taxpayers.

For Austin, to own, the working class will just have to move further out north or east. South and West (and NW) won’t be a bargain. Look for Taylor, Jarrell, And Elgin to get hot. Jarrell is already building a massive subdivision off of 35.

[Stunns38 3357]

When the average wage in this country is 50k, 500k is not a cheap home.
I would kill to be able to buy a place like mine for 500k.  My entry for a similar apartment that I have now is the $1.5 - $2.0 million range.  Now, NYC is different than Austin, but we even more forces that drive up prices, like significant foreign investment, criminal activity (real estate market is used for money laundering), and then all those folks who live elsewhere and have an apartment in NYC (that is part of the reason Studios and 1BDMs are much more $$$).  It is fucking insane.

Here’s another thing about NYC housing that’ll piss you off. Many who were low-income 30 years ago still hold on to their rent-stabilized and subsidized Apts while owning a place in the burbs. I’ve done audits where Section 8 tenants in midtown West had assets in the Hampton’s but old rules allowed them to hold on to their Apts. They pay the max allowable rent which is tons below market. They qualified for those units legally but once they hit over the max income mark, most units don’t go up to true market rents. Therefore, NYC has a pied a terre problem subsidized by taxpayers.

For Austin, to own, the working class will just have to move further out north or east. South and West (and NW) won’t be a bargain. Look for Taylor, Jarrell, And Elgin to get hot. Jarrell is already building a massive subdivision off of 35.

[Nivek 16861]

Me too.  I have never seen the math that supports the idea that Houston ISD shouldn't at least match AISD, etc. for Robin Hood.  It doesn't pass the smell test.  It's a far bigger district and home prices aren't that much lower, but somehow, AISD funds more than any district in the state.
I can only assume that taxing entities like AISD will drop property tax rates given the huge 2022 jump in appraised values.  I crack myself up.

HISD is also running a budget shortfall and has be under serving the kids with learning disabilities. Keep that in mind.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Rich people are the country's biggest welfare recipients.  Enjoy.

Yeah.  That’s a lie.  
 

[Stunns38 3357]

Tapa fail

[Stunns38 3357]

Dp

[sidis 9754]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Let us know how it should be done.  And how white wealthy Austin should pay in less.  

if i believed for a moment that you were willing to discuss anything in good faith, i would be happy to.  you, of course, have demonstrated yourself to be incapable of such a thing...opting instead to routinely play the role of a silly jester.  such a discussion would likely start with the obvious problem of failing to locally fund through appropriate taxing mechanisms in the name of "low-tax, business friendly environment" political consumables that political leadership loves to foist upon simpletons not unlike yourself for political fealty.  it would move to other problems such as the overeliance on robin hood by the state and an unwillingness to actually use it for public education but instead, utilize it as a stopgap for other budgetary shortfalls.  the red legislators love to rail on redistribution but they fucking love it for their own purposes.  don't charge the people of jasper a reasonable property tax rate and just let austin pay for it.  that was not the intention nor the role of robin hood.  if a place cannot fund itself because it does not have that tax base to do so, then robin hood should be utilized.  if instead, it is being used in lieu of actually taxing the rubes (or more importantly, businesses right, elon?) that keep voting for your low tax message, then it should not occur.  

[sidis 9754]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yeah.  That’s a lie.  
 

you cannot possibly believe that is actually responsive to his point.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

9 minutes ago, sidis said:

you cannot possibly believe that is actually responsive to his point.

It’s exactly on point.  

[6th Street 6357]

Going back to the original point of what happens when normal people get priced out. I've seen what happened to SF when the nerds took over and ripped the soul out of the City. Started with the Google and Facebook buses, then quickly the Mission turned, and then other neighborhoods followed. 

It does feel as though Austin is kind of teetering along those same lines where the demographics are turning homogenous. 

[Anastasis 23394]

2 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Going back to the original point of what happens when normal people get priced out. I've seen what happened to SF when the nerds took over and ripped the soul out of the City. Started with the Google and Facebook buses, then quickly the Mission turned, and then other neighborhoods followed. 

It does feel as though Austin is kind of teetering along those same lines where the demographics are turning homogenous. 

On socioeconomic measures that ship has sailed. 

[DanRydell 799]

Redistributing money from property rich districts to property poor districts is a good thing generally (within the confines of funding schools through local property taxes). And Austin ISD sending over 50% of tax revenues to recapture is not inherently a problem. The problem is that the remaining funds are nowhere near adequate for Austin ISD to effectively operate.

[SizzleChest 8275]

[DanRydell 799]

Redistributing money from property rich districts to property poor districts is a good thing generally (within the confines of funding schools through local property taxes). And Austin ISD sending over 50% of tax revenues to recapture is not inherently a problem. The problem is that the remaining funds are nowhere near adequate for Austin ISD to effectively operate.

[We’reTexas 1469]

3 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Going back to the original point of what happens when normal people get priced out. I've seen what happened to SF when the nerds took over and ripped the soul out of the City. Started with the Google and Facebook buses, then quickly the Mission turned, and then other neighborhoods followed. 

It does feel as though Austin is kind of teetering along those same lines where the demographics are turning homogenous. 

To add on, I see two other similarities Austin has with SF: 1) zoning laws weighted way too heavily towards SFH and 2) a district-based city council, which for purposes of housing reform results in a bunch of NIMBY-finger point and no progress. 

[4th&Five 41461]

8 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Going back to the original point of what happens when normal people get priced out. I've seen what happened to SF when the nerds took over and ripped the soul out of the City. Started with the Google and Facebook buses, then quickly the Mission turned, and then other neighborhoods followed. 

It does feel as though Austin is kind of teetering along those same lines where the demographics are turning homogenous. 

I think we’re well past the teetering stage. 

[SimonBolivar 10932]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:25 PM, 4th&Five said:

Wife is a RE agent and sold a little shit box in Georgetown last week for 600k.  The seller bought it 2 years ago for 300.  It is on a couple acres but that still blew my mind.  People will be looking in Temple to find something affordable soon.

Things are going up like crazy in the "lesser" cities too. My appraisal in Waco jumped 25% this year alone and it still doesn't reach true market value. We are still obviously way under Austin's prices, but people earn less here too so it's a big issue to us.

[Stunns38 3357]

All over town. Places that used to be considered rundown and sketchy are getting filled.

Bishop Arts has tons of new rentals that aren’t much cheaper than uptown.

[Stunns38 3357]

All over town. Places that used to be considered rundown and sketchy are getting filled.

Bishop Arts has tons of new rentals that aren’t much cheaper than uptown.

[Texas Jeff 1932]

6 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can only assume that taxing entities like AISD will drop property tax rates given the huge 2022 jump in appraised values.  I crack myself up.

They will reduce property tax rates because they have to, thanks to HB3.  They are only legally allowed to raise taxes by 2.5% without a tax rate election.  AISD has no incentive to do this, because they would lose the additional revenue to Robin Hood, so they won't.

AISD may benefit a little bit, because they can keep the I&S part of the tax bill where it is now, and this will generate a little bit more revenue.  They can use this to pay off bonds faster or build/repair more schools.  AISD schools are badly in need of repair or replacement.  But the part of the budget that goes to Robin Hood and teacher pay should only increase by 2.5%.  If inflation is higher than that, taxes will effectively drop.

The burden of tax will shift more towards those without a homestead exemption.  Those with an exemption will only see an appraised value rise of 10%, while those without will feel the full increase.  So as a net result, taxes for those with a homestead exemption may fall a bit and renters will make up the rest.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Texas Jeff

[Texas Jeff 1932]

And a note on teacher pay .... paying teachers to be able to afford to live where they teach should be the easiest thing we fund.  You pay property tax to fund teachers.  Taxes go up when property values go up.  Logically, we should be able to keep rates at a fixed amount and the amount of money raised from property tax should automatically go up and down as needed to provide what teachers need to live in the town where they teach.

But ... Robin Hood screws that up.  Property appraisals skyrocket and teachers get a 2% raise.  How are school districts expected to attract and keep teachers to live in their town when property values rise 30% and teachers see a 2% bump?

[Neonmoon 38127]

9 hours ago, We’reTexas said:

To add on, I see two other similarities Austin has with SF: 1) zoning laws weighted way too heavily towards SFH and 2) a district-based city council, which for purposes of housing reform results in a bunch of NIMBY-finger point and no progress. 

Add in a the large amount of people opposed to mass transit like rail 

[4th&Five 41461]

9 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Things are going up like crazy in the "lesser" cities too. My appraisal in Waco jumped 25% this year alone and it still doesn't reach true market value. We are still obviously way under Austin's prices, but people earn less here too so it's a big issue to us.

Thanks Chip and Joanna!

[South Austin 52144]

9 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Things are going up like crazy in the "lesser" cities too. My appraisal in Waco jumped 25% this year alone and it still doesn't reach true market value. We are still obviously way under Austin's prices, but people earn less here too so it's a big issue to us.

It's amazing what the announcement of a Whole Foods coming to town will do to property values.

[Post Oak 20187]

34 minutes ago, South Austin said:

It's amazing what the announcement of a Whole Foods coming to town will do to property values.

 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

21 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

We've been riding a declining wave for 40 years. We finally hit bottom. The only direction now is up. 

 

 

 

 

Monetary policy has totally fucked the demand side of the housing equation for a while. Then there’s all kinds of ripple effects throughout the economy. A big one is Blackrock buying massive amounts of homes and becoming landlords because they’re looking for decent returns with all their cash. if this continues, only the rich will own homes. Everyone else will be serfs. As the World Economic said, “it’s 2030, you’ll own nothing, and be happy”.  
 

21 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

So while half the country is like fuck the poor, $7.25 or $15 is too much for them, they're forgetting that if the minimum rage raises, it will put pressure on those jobs above to get higher wages, etc. So anyone that is against raising the minimum wage is basically against getting paid more, and would rather the company make more profits. 

 

 

 

 

This is largely a moot point. In Port Aransas last weekend, the local grocery store prominently advertised they were hiring for multiple positions at $14/hour. Any fast food place is paying that. The effective minimum wage is well above what’s declared. 

[DaysOff 7853]

We're already serfs, the Sack included. My wife and I are rapidly paying off our house for the peace of mind factor. Great, we'll go from two landlords to one. See how long the party of small government lets you stay in the property you own out right if you miss too many property tax payments.

[Brisketexan 104628]

39 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Monetary policy has totally fucked the demand side of the housing equation for a while. Then there’s all kinds of ripple effects throughout the economy. A big one is Blackrock buying massive amounts of homes and becoming landlords because they’re looking for decent returns with all their cash. if this continues, only the rich will own homes. Everyone else will be serfs. As the World Economic said, “it’s 2030, you’ll own nothing, and be happy”.  

And the solution?

Duh..........CRYPTO!

[immamac 42519]

I know everyone wants to talk about all the robinhood stuff and whatnot. That's not the real issue, the real issue is that my taxes for a house I bought in 2010 are now more than the mortgage, interest and insurance. 

~2000/mo in taxes

~1650/mo mortage+insurance

This is the issue. Housing is becoming unaffordable for those who already own a home. It's absolutely absurd to pay more than your mortgage to the local and state government to live in the house, even if it's paid off. There is nothing that can make that make sense, it's a problem and it's one that will destroy the city. 

Wages have become stagnant and employers are not adjusting for inflation, even in high paying jobs. It's completely unsustainable, there isn't a place for normal people to live in this city anymore - soon we'll have friends buying houses together and just being roommates forever. I don't know how much of this problem is attributed to "boomers" for living too long and staying in their houses, but something is extremely fucky about how this is going down and not just for those who don't already own homes (making it near impossible for them to own one) 

I mean who is going to fund the bump in rents that is going to happen across the board when the rental market adjusts to this complete assfucking by the city? I don't see companies shelling out the extra compensation required to live here - so what happens then? Where are all the service industry folks going to live? Austin isn't cool enough to live like a ski bum with 5 people to a 2 bedroom and the houses overall are much too nice to even allow for a setup like that generally speaking. 

I just don't see how this doesn't lead to some major reform once we get a normal government back in Texas instead of raping everyone for the 1% or better, which is what is happening all across the state. 

[DaysOff 7853]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

once we get a normal government back in Texas

 

LOLZ

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

some of this will ease as the outer communities become stronger.  living in austin will be expensive, but living in manor may be more palatable as the exurbs grow and begin to offer more.  sort of dallasing our austin, where people's nucleus is mckinney or plano and they don't come in to dallas.

[Foosters 17734]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

I know everyone wants to talk about all the robinhood stuff and whatnot. That's not the real issue, the real issue is that my taxes for a house I bought in 2010 are now more than the mortgage, interest and insurance. 

~2000/mo in taxes

~1650/mo mortage+insurance

This is the issue. Housing is becoming unaffordable for those who already own a home. It's absolutely absurd to pay more than your mortgage to the local and state government to live in the house, even if it's paid off. There is nothing that can make that make sense, it's a problem and it's one that will destroy the city. 

Wages have become stagnant and employers are not adjusting for inflation, even in high paying jobs. It's completely unsustainable, there isn't a place for normal people to live in this city anymore - soon we'll have friends buying houses together and just being roommates forever. I don't know how much of this problem is attributed to "boomers" for living too long and staying in their houses, but something is extremely fucky about how this is going down and not just for those who don't already own homes (making it near impossible for them to own one) 

I mean who is going to fund the bump in rents that is going to happen across the board when the rental market adjusts to this complete assfucking by the city? I don't see companies shelling out the extra compensation required to live here - so what happens then? Where are all the service industry folks going to live? Austin isn't cool enough to live like a ski bum with 5 people to a 2 bedroom and the houses overall are much too nice to even allow for a setup like that generally speaking. 

I just don't see how this doesn't lead to some major reform once we get a normal government back in Texas instead of raping everyone for the 1% or better, which is what is happening all across the state. 

This is happening in cities/states all over the country. Along with rises in crime, wealth inequality, healthcare costs, homelessness, and stagnant wages. Regardless of whether jurisdiction has high taxes, low taxes, progressive DAs, conservative DAs, liberal or conservative leadership.

It's almost like something is fundamentally broken with our system.