what's your political 'attitude' nowadays?

[Brisketexan 104628]

26 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I'm adopting the @Brisketexan approach of "we're all fucked, and there's nothing we can do about it."  It's just easier that way.

Easier....and it has the benefit of also being true.  Idiocy and anger have won.  There's no going back.

20 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

There are tons of extremely low information voters out there who make their decision based in large part on small soundbites or headlines they've picked up. 

The Ds should even mix in some outrageous lies about the Rs because bullshit gets more traction these days. 

Here's the thing.....the D's don't even need to make up lies.  They can say things that are plainly true, state them in hyperbolic terms, and repeat them ad nauseum.  Repetition, hammer it hard, constantly.

Party of treason.  Party of Putin.  Shit like that.

[TexArcher 37520]

19 hours ago, lemonlime said:

Some combo of I'm exhausted and I give up, TFG broke us we're done, and I'm mad as hell.   Really just depressed, because it's become obvious we're done regardless of what anyone does, and we're just a nation of zombies who only give a fuck about me me me, guns, monster trucks, and destroying the planet.

Yep.  

Fox News won.  That's the easiest way to sum it up.

I've gone from disbelief, to anger, to depression, to acceptance and I gotta go.

I'm now planning on retiring as an expat in 10 to 15 years, possibly sooner.  I don't want to be around for the final death rattle of this empire.

Edited April 20, 2022 by TexArcher

[horn4life 3755]

My political attitude is about the same as it's been since my mid 20's.  Fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

During that time the GOP went from a fiscally conservative party with a libertarian lean, to a party of fiscal stupidity and downright dangerous to democracy.  The Dems unfortunately have been shot in the foot repetitively by the left wing of their party.  But MORESO by the GOP's complete lack of giving a shit about this country, and only caring about their party.  Which is how they can oppose everything and be for nothing.

The real problem is the folks that love their flags, their guns, and their freedom (for light skinned folks) do not see the danger their leadership poses to the fundamental principles of our democracy.  It's all a game, where "owning the libs" is the end and and be all of what it is today to be Republican, for the vast majority of Republicans.  There is of course the large swath of the GOP that embrace racism, but don't think they are racist.  

We are potentially in for a very dark period.  I honestly believe most Republicans would get rid of democracy completely if the could rule this country.  I don't think I can say the same of the Dems.  Neither party is great.  But the Dems are the far less evil of the two.  The GOP cannot for example admit that Russian Facebook manipulation helped Trump win in 2016.  They actually believe more falsehoods than truths.  

It is important to point out that Hitler was ELECTED to office and Putin was ELECTED to office.  What they and the current GOP have in common is the GOP's willingness to override norms and accept behavior far outside the norms in the quest for political advantage.  And that's exactly how both Hitler and Putin managed to take complete control.  What norm would the GOP not throw away for control?  I can't think of anything right now they would not toss, nothing.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

Yep.  

Fox News won.  That's the easiest way to sum it up.

I've gone from disbelief, to anger, to depression, to acceptance and I gotta go.

I'm now planning on retiring as an expat in 10 to 15 years, possibly sooner.  I don't want to be around for the final death rattle of this empire.

That's certainly on the table for us.  It seems certain that we won't retire in Texas; this state is making no investment in its future, and is consuming its seed stock (its people).  We're headed for a status that looks like other corrupt oligarchies: a rich class, a serf class, and not much in between.  No thanks.

Whether that means we end up in a blue state, or a foreign country, remains to be seen.  And a good bit of that depends on where our kids end up.  Neither of them is super high on making their life here (the US, but especially Texas), so we'll see.

Also, the myth of "if America is becoming shitty, why are immigrants flocking here?" is being busted.  I've spoken with a fair number of immigrants in the past year who have realized that "America isn't so great."  And that alone isn't a problem.  The fact that saying anything BUT "This is the greatest perfectest country" is treated as heretical treason, and any effort to improve things is called SOCIALISM! is what's killing us.  And we're dead-set committed to that path.  Our best days are absolutely behind us, and we're dedicated to making the future worse.  Fuck it.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

2 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

Do you not think messaging matters at all or what? 

I'm not saying effective messaging is going to drastically shift anything. It's about the fight for the undecided people in the middle. A lot of those people have responded favorably to the Rs bullshit about culture wars and socialism, etc. They need to be made to see that the Rs are authoritarian obstructors who have no governing ideas at all. The Rs are sitting ducks for all kinds of attacks. The Lincoln Project has the right idea, but it needs to start coming from the Dem candidates.

I do think it matters but I just think that the Dems are a pretty broad tent cobbled together with masking tape.  I'm voting to sow the Republican Party with salt, but the message I want is pretty moderate on most issues other than climate and I'll acknowledge it won't appeal to anyone who is progressive on economics.  So any message designed to keep the Dems together -- that's just going to be tough.

In terms of convincing anyone who bought into the Rs bullshit?  I think ANY thinking about that is overthinking.  Any message that would appeal to these dolts is going to turn Dems away.  Unless, as you say, its just clever shit like the Lincoln Project stuff, but to me the Lincoln Project really is just clever shit. 

My message to Dems marketers - "Don't be Stupid, We're All Counting on You.  Let's not ever say Defund the Police, Okay".

To me the only message that MIGHT sway folks on the edge is the "protect our democracy" message.  They need to come up with something that is a more clever drumbeat on that - public service messages delivered by ex-Republicans and military folks, etc.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

25 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Easier....and it has the benefit of also being true.  Idiocy and anger have won.  There's no going back.

Does idiocy rule in the jury box?  Have a trial attorney just figure out how to play that game? 

To me, if the issue is that a jury ultimately will reach the truth, or the correct result, then the culprit regarding American democracy  isn't general "idiocy and anger".  It's the structure of elections and the $$$ that perverts the system. 

If you think that any group of more than one is ruled by "idiocy and anger" then yeah, the Brisket approach, explained in that shorthand, makes sense.

[Biff Tannen 45499]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The fact that saying anything BUT "This is the greatest perfectest country" is treated as heretical treason, and any effort to improve things is called SOCIALISM! is what's killing us. 

This is something I will NEVER understand.  Holy shit, look around.  It's not a fucking utopia!  God forbid we try to improve anything.

[wildcat09 29260]

14 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I do think it matters but I just think that the Dems are a pretty broad tent cobbled together with masking tape.  I'm voting to sow the Republican Party with salt, but the message I want is pretty moderate on most issues other than climate and I'll acknowledge it won't appeal to anyone who is progressive on economics.  So any message designed to keep the Dems together -- that's just going to be tough.

In terms of convincing anyone who bought into the Rs bullshit?  I think ANY thinking about that is overthinking.  Any message that would appeal to these dolts is going to turn Dems away.  Unless, as you say, its just clever shit like the Lincoln Project stuff, but to me the Lincoln Project really is just clever shit. 

My message to Dems marketers - "Don't be Stupid, We're All Counting on You.  Let's not ever say Defund the Police, Okay".

To me the only message that MIGHT sway folks on the edge is the "protect our democracy" message.  They need to come up with something that is a more clever drumbeat on that - public service messages delivered by ex-Republicans and military folks, etc.

No actual Dems say that shit except for the worthless moderates who can't stop going on tv saying how non-existent Dems need to stop saying that shit. Dem marketers need to do one fucking thing: attack Republicans for the things that Republicans are actually saying and doing. That's it. It's fucking 2022 and they still somehow haven't figured that out. 

[4th&Five 41461]

19 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I feel like she sums it up for me pretty well. except for the christian and mom parts. but minor details

 

Ummmm...can we swap her in for Joe today?

[Blotto 23434]

1 hour ago, horn4life said:

I honestly believe most Republicans would get rid of democracy completely if the could rule this country.

As ridiculous as that sounds, you aint wrong. 

Trump is an ignorant shitbag who  did nothing but lie, grift and trample all over the presidential norms during his term. Look at the number of people in this country willing to throw it all away for that conman. They believe in Trump more than they believe in democracy. There's no coming back from that. All global superpowers crumble eventually, we're up to bat. 

Edited to add - my vote was "TFG broke us, we're done". But in reality, we were broken before that fat fuck ever showed up on the political stage. 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Blotto

[Brisketexan 104628]

11 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Does idiocy rule in the jury box?  Have a trial attorney just figure out how to play that game? 

To me, if the issue is that a jury ultimately will reach the truth, or the correct result, then the culprit regarding American democracy  isn't general "idiocy and anger".  It's the structure of elections and the $$$ that perverts the system. 

If you think that any group of more than one is ruled by "idiocy and anger" then yeah, the Brisket approach, explained in that shorthand, makes sense.

You raise a tangent that I won't go off too far onto in this thread, but  the answer is YES, the current tide of idiocy, empowered stupidity, and insanity, has absolutely influenced how trial lawyers practice.  It starts with dealing with parties who are fucking insane.  Seriously, whereas you used to be able to reason with opposing parties (not always, but mostly).  Now, much more often, we're dealing with ideologues who are uninformed, and unteachable.  And it's starting to translate to the jury box as well.  A lot of lawyers have made the same observation in the past 3-4 years, and it's getting significantly worse with each passing day.  It's no joke.

[Sbbruin 21738]

35 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

That's certainly on the table for us.  It seems certain that we won't retire in Texas; this state is making no investment in its future, and is consuming its seed stock (its people).  We're headed for a status that looks like other corrupt oligarchies: a rich class, a serf class, and not much in between.  No thanks.

Whether that means we end up in a blue state, or a foreign country, remains to be seen.  And a good bit of that depends on where our kids end up.  Neither of them is super high on making their life here (the US, but especially Texas), so we'll see.

Also, the myth of "if America is becoming shitty, why are immigrants flocking here?" is being busted.  I've spoken with a fair number of immigrants in the past year who have realized that "America isn't so great."  And that alone isn't a problem.  The fact that saying anything BUT "This is the greatest perfectest country" is treated as heretical treason, and any effort to improve things is called SOCIALISM! is what's killing us.  And we're dead-set committed to that path.  Our best days are absolutely behind us, and we're dedicated to making the future worse.  Fuck it.

That's the spirit!

[Hate 20103]

40 minutes ago, horn4life said:

We are potentially in for a very dark period.  I honestly believe most Republicans would get rid of democracy completely if the could rule this country.  I don't think I can say the same of the Dems. 

This statement is particularly naive as there have been many calls to eliminate the electoral college here on this board.  Ending the EC would effectively end the chance of a Republican ever being elected POTUS, and many here would sign up for that in a heartbeat.  I think the worst part of politics over the last several years is the hyperbole. Everyone on the other team is a natzi and everyone on my team is a saint.  It's all bullshit and it's gone beyond tiresome.  It's why a lot of people like me have mostly checked out. 

*as I absolutely abhor the CR, this will be my only post on this thread.  I thought this thread had a chance to be different, but it quickly devolved into the same old tired hyperbole.  I did vote for "honestly, none of it really matters" simply because I think both parties are completely out of touch with the average American.  I want a return to common sense.  Thanks, bye.

[4th&Five 41461]

8 minutes ago, Hate said:

This statement is particularly naive as there have been many calls to eliminate the electoral college here on this board.  Ending the EC would effectively end the chance of a Republican ever being elected POTUS, and many here would sign up for that in a heartbeat.  I think the worst part of politics over the last several years is the hyperbole. Everyone on the other team is a natzi and everyone on my team is a saint.  It's all bullshit and it's gone beyond tiresome.  It's why a lot of people like me have mostly checked out. 

*as I absolutely abhor the CR, this will be my only post on this thread.  I thought this thread had a chance to be different, but it quickly devolved into the same old tired hyperbole.  I did vote for "honestly, none of it really matters" simply because I think both parties are completely out of touch with the average American.  I want a return to common sense.  Thanks, bye.

Could that be because in the last decade the GOP only try's to appeal to the minority of the population.  If we eliminated the EC they may be forced back towards the middle where they were forever.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

EC is not instrumental to democracy, yo.  

[immamac 42520]

I think people are lazy and being taken advantage of by the ruling class in this country. It's almost fully transitioned to an oligarchy and I think without legislation to limit campaign contributions from corporations then we are just fucked. 

[bonnieblue 542]

I’m torn between (I) wanting to get the hell out of dodge and try to ex-pat somewhere because the American experiment is over, and (2) running for office myself so I can get on a pulpit to scream at people for being hateful rubes. It won’t serve to accomplish anything but it might feel good.

 

 

[Brisketexan 104628]

44 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Look at the number of people in this country willing to throw it all away for that conman. They believe in Trump more than they believe in democracy. There's no coming back from that. All global superpowers crumble eventually, we're up to bat. 

It's not any more complicated than that.  That's a stone-cold insurmountable truth.

[wildcat09 29260]

26 minutes ago, Hate said:

This statement is particularly naive as there have been many calls to eliminate the electoral college here on this board.  Ending the EC would effectively end the chance of a Republican ever being elected POTUS, and many here would sign up for that in a heartbeat.  I think the worst part of politics over the last several years is the hyperbole. Everyone on the other team is a natzi and everyone on my team is a saint.  It's all bullshit and it's gone beyond tiresome.  It's why a lot of people like me have mostly checked out. 

*as I absolutely abhor the CR, this will be my only post on this thread.  I thought this thread had a chance to be different, but it quickly devolved into the same old tired hyperbole.  I did vote for "honestly, none of it really matters" simply because I think both parties are completely out of touch with the average American.  I want a return to common sense.  Thanks, bye.

No it wouldn't. They would just have to change their campaign strategy if they wanted to win.

[bolverk 29405]

1 hour ago, horn4life said:

It is important to point out that Hitler was ELECTED to office and Putin was ELECTED to office.  What they and the current GOP have in common is the GOP's willingness to override norms and accept behavior far outside the norms in the quest for political advantage.  And that's exactly how both Hitler and Putin managed to take complete control.  What norm would the GOP not throw away for control?  I can't think of anything right now they would not toss, nothing.

There's a reason they're looking at Orban as a model.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

There's a reason they're looking at Orban as a model.

DING DING DING

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

31 minutes ago, Hate said:

Ending the EC would effectively end the chance of a Republican ever being elected POTUS,

just look at how often the red bar is bigger than the blue bar.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1035521/popular-votes-republican-democratic-parties-since-1828/

R's consistently now get fewer votes than D exactly because of the EC.  They message to people with outsized EC influence (i.e., smaller population states). 

[mchookem 16225]

39 minutes ago, Hate said:

This statement is particularly naive as there have been many calls to eliminate the electoral college here on this board.  Ending the EC would effectively end the chance of a Republican ever being elected POTUS, and many here would sign up for that in a heartbeat.  I think the worst part of politics over the last several years is the hyperbole. Everyone on the other team is a natzi and everyone on my team is a saint.  It's all bullshit and it's gone beyond tiresome.  It's why a lot of people like me have mostly checked out. 

*as I absolutely abhor the CR, this will be my only post on this thread.  I thought this thread had a chance to be different, but it quickly devolved into the same old tired hyperbole.  I did vote for "honestly, none of it really matters" simply because I think both parties are completely out of touch with the average American.  I want a return to common sense.  Thanks, bye.

i wouldn't say i agree but i wanted to thank you for voting, that's what i hoped others who maybe aren't as vocal would do. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by mchookem

[Blotto 23434]

28 minutes ago, Hate said:

This statement is particularly naive as there have been many calls to eliminate the electoral college here on this board.  Ending the EC would effectively end the chance of a Republican ever being elected POTUS, and many here would sign up for that in a heartbeat.  I think the worst part of politics over the last several years is the hyperbole. Everyone on the other team is a natzi and everyone on my team is a saint.  It's all bullshit and it's gone beyond tiresome.  It's why a lot of people like me have mostly checked out. 

*as I absolutely abhor the CR, this will be my only post on this thread.  I thought this thread had a chance to be different, but it quickly devolved into the same old tired hyperbole.  I did vote for "honestly, none of it really matters" simply because I think both parties are completely out of touch with the average American.  I want a return to common sense.  Thanks, bye.

Why do you say that? What specific reasons are there why the Republicans will never be able to win a majority of the popular vote? they did so in 2004 so what prohibits them from appealing to the majority of the country, and why should that be a rationale against abolishing the EC? Or are you just observing that the republicans would never agree to abolish the EC so its not worth discussing? 

 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10145]

35 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Could that be because in the last decade the GOP only try's to appeal to the minority of the population.  If we eliminated the EC they may be forced back towards the middle where they were forever.

Common ground is something the two parties today won't ever do, but I've thought the Democrats should offer up Voter ID for getting rid of the Electoral College. 

[VRHorn 718]

8 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Common ground is something the two parties today won't ever do, but I've thought the Democrats should offer up Voter ID for getting rid of the Electoral College. 

Who do you think says no to that deal? 

There is not a chance in hell that the Republicans would take that deal. You would have to throw in the revocation of a few amendments.

[Slacks 6791]

11 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Common ground is something the two parties today won't ever do, but I've thought the Democrats should offer up Voter ID for getting rid of the Electoral College. 

"See, they agree we should have Voter ID... and they want to get rid of our nation's historical voting mechanism because they know they can't win if there are Voter IDs and an Electoral College."

[Slacks 6791]

3 minutes ago, VRHorn said:

Who do you think says no to that deal? 

There is not a chance in hell that the Republicans would take that deal. You would have to throw in the revocation of a few amendments.

and proclamations, amirite?

[bolverk 29405]

11 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Common ground is something the two parties today won't ever do, but I've thought the Democrats should offer up Voter ID for getting rid of the Electoral College. 

Make them free/universally available to all citizens, and I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. In my view, the Electoral College is just another form of gerrymandering but at the federal level.

[horn4life 3755]

2 hours ago, horn4life said:

We are potentially in for a very dark period.  I honestly believe most Republicans would get rid of democracy completely if the could rule this country.  I don't think I can say the same of the Dems.  Neither party is great.  But the Dems are the far less evil of the two.  The GOP cannot for example admit that Russian Facebook manipulation helped Trump win in 2016.  They actually believe more falsehoods than truths.   (redacted in original quote)

 

1 hour ago, Hate said:

This statement is particularly naive as there have been many calls to eliminate the electoral college here on this board.  Ending the EC would effectively end the chance of a Republican ever being elected POTUS, and many here would sign up for that in a heartbeat.  I think the worst part of politics over the last several years is the hyperbole. Everyone on the other team is a natzi and everyone on my team is a saint.  It's all bullshit and it's gone beyond tiresome.  It's why a lot of people like me have mostly checked out. 

*as I absolutely abhor the CR, this will be my only post on this thread.  I thought this thread had a chance to be different, but it quickly devolved into the same old tired hyperbole.  I did vote for "honestly, none of it really matters" simply because I think both parties are completely out of touch with the average American.  I want a return to common sense.  Thanks, bye.

 

Well HATE you may not often visit the cloak room, but you have the selective Cloak Room editing down...

I guess a minority is the majority in Democracy?  I agree that the Republican party is a minority party that can win the popular vote if there is broad voter participation.  But elimination of the Electoral Collage is NOT the elimination of democracy.  Get a grip.  What the Electoral College does is allow for a minority to defeat the popular vote.  Heck states tinker with how to allocate the Electoral votes, and that didn't end democracy.  

Equivocating the actions and inactions of the GOP relating to Trump trying to steal the Presidency is a bit different than advocating for the changing of laws.  Talk about naive.

I agree that the Republican party is a minority party that has great difficulty winning the popular vote when there is broad voter participation. Reagan was the last Republican President to win the popular vote and the Electoral College.  I am not in favor of eliminating the Electoral College, not quite yet.  BUT if the Senate (which gives small states a lot more voice) continues on its current path, I might.

Simply as the combination of the Electoral College and Senate now give a lot more weight politically to the voters of small states at the expense of more populous whose votes are vastly diluted.  

 

[Brisketexan 104628]

10 minutes ago, horn4life said:

Well HATE you may not often visit the cloak room, but you have the selective Cloak Room editing down...

I guess a minority is the majority in Democracy?  I agree that the Republican party is a minority party that can win the popular vote if there is broad voter participation.  But elimination of the Electoral Collage is NOT the elimination of democracy.  Get a grip.  What the Electoral College does is allow for a minority to defeat the popular vote.  Heck states tinker with how to allocate the Electoral votes, and that didn't end democracy.  

Equivocating the actions and inactions of the GOP relating to Trump trying to steal the Presidency is a bit different than advocating for the changing of laws.  Talk about naive.

I agree that the Republican party is a minority party that has great difficulty winning the popular vote when there is broad voter participation. Reagan was the last Republican President to win the popular vote and the Electoral College.  I am not in favor of eliminating the Electoral College, not quite yet.  BUT if the Senate (which gives small states a lot more voice) continues on its current path, I might.

Simply as the combination of the Electoral College and Senate now give a lot more weight politically to the voters of small states at the expense of more populous whose votes are vastly diluted.  

 

Oh, it goes a step further.  Per current Republican desires, the plan is for minority rule within minority rule.  Because the majority of Republicans today believe that (gerrymandered) state legislatures should be able to override a state's popular vote to then submit votes to the EC for the OTHER candidate.  The scenario they propose is this:

1) State X votes for the Dem candidate (that is, he wins the popular vote in State X).

2) BUT, State X has a state legislature where, even though the majority of voters in the state vote Dem, gerrymandering gives the lege a GOP majority.

3) So, the GOP-majority lege of State X just tosses out the popular vote of State X for Dem candidate, and submits an EC elector slate for the GOP candidate.

4) And the GOP candidate didn't win the national popular vote, either.

The GOP is all-in on "the POTUS should be whoever we, the GOP, say it should be, votes be damned."  They are not hiding it.  They say that, out loud.  You are either for a Republic where the voters actually have the power to control the outcome of elections, or you favor an autocracy where "The Party" - as that term is used in North Korea, etc. -- decides the outcome of elections.  It's fucking insanity, but there we are.  The GOP has long since abandoned the idea of winning the majority of votes.  They'll just decide the election using other means.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Brisketexan

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

22 minutes ago, horn4life said:

Reagan was the last Republican President to win the popular vote and the Electoral College. 

 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10145]

20 minutes ago, horn4life said:

Reagan was the last Republican President to win the popular vote and the Electoral College.

 

 

 

[horn4life 3755]

Sorry I meant IN A FIRST ELECTION as far as winning the popular and electoral vote.

Also meant to say the GOP can NOT win the popular vote in larger turnout national elections.

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

1 minute ago, horn4life said:

Sorry I meant IN A FIRST ELECTION as far as winning the popular and electoral vote.

Also meant to say the GOP can NOT win the popular vote in larger turnout national elections.

 

 

you sure

[Brisketexan 104628]

17 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

 

you sure

Yes, I am 100% sure.

Because the "GOP" of GHWB bears as much resemblance to the "GOP" of Trump as the VY-led 2005 National Champs Longhorn team bore to Charlie Strong's last Longhorn team.  About the only thing they have in common is the team name and sticker on the helmets.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Yes, I am 100% sure.

Because the "GOP" of GHWB bears as much resemblance to the "GOP" of Trump as the VY-led 2005 National Champs Longhorn team bore to Charlie Strong's last Longhorn team.  About the only thing they have in common is the team name and sticker on the helmets.

my post was in response to the clarification that Reagan was the last R to win popular / EC in first election.

[bolverk 29405]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, it goes a step further.  Per current Republican desires, the plan is for minority rule within minority rule.  Because the majority of Republicans today believe that (gerrymandered) state legislatures should be able to override a state's popular vote to then submit votes to the EC for the OTHER candidate.  The scenario they propose is this:

1) State X votes for the Dem candidate (that is, he wins the popular vote in State X).

2) BUT, State X has a state legislature where, even though the majority of voters in the state vote Dem, gerrymandering gives the lege a GOP majority.

3) So, the GOP-majority lege of State X just tosses out the popular vote of State X for Dem candidate, and submits an EC elector slate for the GOP candidate.

4) And the GOP candidate didn't win the national popular vote, either.

The GOP is all-in on "the POTUS should be whoever we, the GOP, say it should be, votes be damned."  They are not hiding it.  They say that, out loud.  You are either for a Republic where the voters actually have the power to control the outcome of elections, or you favor an autocracy where "The Party" - as that term is used in North Korea, etc. -- decides the outcome of elections.  It's fucking insanity, but there we are.  The GOP has long since abandoned the idea of winning the majority of votes.  They'll just decide the election using other means.

Off the top of my head, I think Wisconsin and North Carolina are two recent, prominent examples of states where a large majority of voters, collectively, went with Democratic candidates but, due to gerrymandering, are a pitiful minority among their US representatives and in their state houses.

[gmr548 16517]

Ending the EC would effectively end the chance of a Republican ever being elected POTUS, and many here would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

Why do you think that is?

And as a follow up, referring to your answer to the question above, why is it a problem that said reason would result in never having a Republican President elected? How is this possibly #bothsides-ed into being equivalent to the current Republican playbook?

[gmr548 16517]

Yes, I am 100% sure.
Because the "GOP" of GHWB bears as much resemblance to the "GOP" of Trump as the VY-led 2005 National Champs Longhorn team bore to Charlie Strong's last Longhorn team.  About the only thing they have in common is the team name and sticker on the helmets.

We were having a nice discussion about the downfall of America and you just had to poison the whole thing by going so low as to bring up Texas football. Smh.

[horn4life 3755]

I stand corrected. George Herbert Walker Bush was indeed the last GOP Presidential candidate to initially win the office of the Presidency with both the Popular vote, and the Electoral vote.  The year was... 1988.

That's interesting isn't it?  That for almost 25 years the GOP has not had a new Presidential candidate that could win the popular vote.  But on the bright side the GOP has had two Presidents who initially won the Presidency with a clear minority of the vote.

I just wish the GOP would occasionally actually solve a REAL PROBLEM, rather than always finding a solution for an IMAGINARY PROBLEM they promote heavily with messaging. I really wish the Republican party was the party it was when I was a loyal member.  Now it's just a shell with fake principles with a shit ton of racism and bigotry.  Which is probably why they are a minority party, that relies on misinformation and voter suppression. Sad to me that is the case.  Too bad the GOP has shit ideas.  Dems have a lot of shit ideas too.  But they don't latch onto absolute lies and pretend they are truth.  THAT is very fucking dangerous, and gets us traitors like Trump elected to office.

[formermav43 4599]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes, I am 100% sure.

Because the "GOP" of GHWB bears as much resemblance to the "GOP" of Trump as the VY-led 2005 National Champs Longhorn team bore to Charlie Strong's last Longhorn team.  About the only thing they have in common is the team name and sticker on the helmets.

Actually they didn’t even have the same sticker. Have you somehow forgotten the metallic Longhorn?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes, I am 100% sure.

Because the "GOP" of GHWB bears as much resemblance to the "GOP" of Trump as the VY-led 2005 National Champs Longhorn team bore to Charlie Strong's last Longhorn team.  About the only thing they have in common is the team name and sticker on the helmets.

This is how the game has to be played now. We'll still have the old guard fantasizing about magically returning to the days of William F. Buckley calmly debating his foes, regaling everyone with his well-reasoned soliloquys, but those days are gone (and I wish to hell that they weren't). There's no playing nice anymore. GWB tried to play nice and spent 8 years getting called Hitler (and that was when the left was 1/10th as vicious as they are now). McCain was the "maverick" who made his bones "reaching across the aisle," and the second he clinched the Republican nomination he became a racist old cancer patient who would personally use coat hangers to abort babies in back-alleys. Mitt Romney was practically a caricature of a moderate, temperate Northeastern old-school Republican who cared more about playing nice with the other side than actually advancing conservatism, and he got turned into an early-1900s robber baron who literally gave a man cancer. 

The only way now is to throw their own depravities back into their faces, call them the degenerate sickos that they are, and use every power you have to destroy them, because they'll sure do the same to you.

[mchookem 16225]

i was waiting for that vote lol

[Willfully Horn 7916]

 

[Willfully Horn 7916]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

This is how the game has to be played now. We'll still have the old guard fantasizing about magically returning to the days of William F. Buckley calmly debating his foes, regaling everyone with his well-reasoned soliloquys, but those days are gone (and I wish to hell that they weren't). There's no playing nice anymore. GWB tried to play nice and spent 8 years getting called Hitler (and that was when the left was 1/10th as vicious as they are now). McCain was the "maverick" who made his bones "reaching across the aisle," and the second he clinched the Republican nomination he became a racist old cancer patient who would personally use coat hangers to abort babies in back-alleys. Mitt Romney was practically a caricature of a moderate, temperate Northeastern old-school Republican who cared more about playing nice with the other side than actually advancing conservatism, and he got turned into an early-1900s robber baron who literally gave a man cancer. 

The only way now is to throw their own depravities back into their faces, call them the degenerate sickos that they are, and use every power you have to destroy them, because they'll sure do the same to you.

Pos rep for the honest post. Thinking conservative values are advanced through fascism is foolish. Hence, chump.

[fattyflattie 4636]

I could get behind getting rid of the EC if social programs were capped at say, 10B per presidential term.  Promising college debt forgiveness and reparations to purchase votes is bullshit.  Oh, and no more executive orders.  

Edited April 21, 2022 by fattyflattie

[bluto 4894]

20 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I could get behind getting rid of the EC if social programs were capped at say, 10B per presidential term.  Promising college debt forgiveness and reparations to purchase votes is bullshit.  Oh, and no more executive orders.  

Can we count bank/Wall Street bailouts as social programs too?

[fattyflattie 4636]

Just now, bluto said:

Can we count bank/Wall Street bailouts as social programs too?

However you want to define it. 

[Mdhorn 5911]

19 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Pos rep for the honest post. Thinking conservative values are advanced through fascism is foolish. Hence, chump.

They got all that thrown back at them by their own--McCain was called a loser by Trump because he got captured.  Trump shat on Purple Heart recipients, just like Limbaugh. There's no wringing sense out of any of Johnny's dishonest posts and I promise you won't miss one on ignore.