MLB umpiring thread

[shadow_operative 15931]

 

 

[shadow_operative 15931]

hope all of y'all started ramon de jesus in your umpire fantasy leagues tonight:

 

[shadow_operative 15931]

 

 

 

[shadow_operative2.0 15735]

Horrific call, but we’re not TonyTroll. Shit happens. 

[Herbie Hancock 7275]

You mean we know what the infield fly rule is?

[shadow_operative2.0 15735]

Some do. 50-year old stalker of Helo most certainly never will. 

[TrashMaster G 17295]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

Horrific call, but we’re not TonyTroll. Shit happens. 

I would accept "shit happens" if the call was wrong on the field and replay failed to overturn in.  In this case, a good call on the filed was thrown out by some fucking dumbass in NYC.

That's not "shit happens".  That is meddling.  It's inexcusable.

[shadow_operative2.0 15735]

You have zero skins on the Rangers’ wall. You are the definition of why people make fun of the fanbase. 

[HonkeyVape 107]

6 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

 

 

Lost in the emphasis and inspection of the home plate part of this play is just how freaking beautiful that assist was from Jankowski. Picked the ball in a fluid motion with momentum ready to throw, anticipating a play at the plate, and threw a beauty on target. Sucks he got robbed of an assist because that's a major league play.

[shadow_operative2.0 15735]

Ha, Beau is even hunting you here. 

[shadow_operative 15931]

mike trout getting screwed tonight:

 

 

[Jameslaw121 4440]

 

[shadow_operative 15931]

 

some of these are just completely indefensible.

[NorthLoop 13950]

21 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

 

some of these are just completely indefensible.

Some pretty good framing in there though

[Guadaloopy 10802]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:36 PM, NorthLoop said:

Some pretty good framing in there though

Liars and cheats.  The sooner we have bots, the sooner we can stop touting this bogus skill.

[NorthLoop 13950]

I mean - it's a skill that has value. I agree that we need to have computers calling balls and strikes, but I can appreciate that some of these catchers are pretty damn good at framing. 

[Guadaloopy 10802]

Just now, NorthLoop said:

I mean - it's a skill that has value. I agree that we need to have computers calling balls and strikes, but I can appreciate that some of these catchers are pretty damn good at framing. 

No doubt.  I just hate the fact that it's been actively cultivated as a skill.  It's like teaching OL to grab on the breastplate of the shoulder pads and keep their hands inside when holding.  If you're better at fooling the officials, you're a 'better" player.    

[Guadaloopy 10802]

And "good" framing should be about where you catch the ball and how your glove is facing and not where you snatch your glove back to after catching it.  It should be nearly imperceptible.  I don't have issue with guys who frame around the edges and don't lunge.  It's the guys that obviously snatch the glove back 6 inches after making the catch.  Fuck those guys.  

[Huckleberry 32414]

11 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

No doubt.  I just hate the fact that it's been actively cultivated as a skill.  It's like teaching OL to grab on the breastplate of the shoulder pads and keep their hands inside when holding.  If you're better at fooling the officials, you're a 'better" player.    

I consider it baseball's version of flopping. You are actively trying to trick an official to get a call. 

[uoftorange 1383]

10 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

And "good" framing should be about where you catch the ball and how your glove is facing and not where you snatch your glove back to after catching it.  It should be nearly imperceptible.  I don't have issue with guys who frame around the edges and don't lunge.  It's the guys that obviously snatch the glove back 6 inches after making the catch.  Fuck those guys.  

This is how I view it.  If you snatch your glove like that, you didn't think it was a strike, so I'm not calling it.  Catcher knows better than anyone if a ball is a strike or not.  

When I used to umpire HS and below I would warn the catcher :  "All you are telling me is that you don't think I know where the zone is AND you probably didn't think it was a strike.  So if it's borderline and you pull that shit it's getting called a ball."  

Framing is catching the ball and sticking it.  This isn't framing, it's moving the ball into the zone.  And Huckleberry is right, this is flopping, and I'd be fine if it was punished accordingly.  Just don't know how to accurately do that.  

[shadow_operative 15931]

agreed re: snatching the glove. there was some catcher we had (the cubs, that is) who was awesome at framing, and instead of snatching his mitt like that he had a skill where was able to catch the pitch way down by his wrist/lower palm which made outside pitches look like they had touched the black. i wish i could remember who it is i'm thinking of. but yeah, end of the day you're just trying to deceive the goofball standing behind you. robo umps sooner than later please. 

[Beau Vine 53722]

 

[Guadaloopy 10802]

If Pierzynski did it, you know it's fucked up.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, uoftorange said:

This is how I view it.  If you snatch your glove like that, you didn't think it was a strike, so I'm not calling it.  Catcher knows better than anyone if a ball is a strike or not.  

When I used to umpire HS and below I would warn the catcher :  "All you are telling me is that you don't think I know where the zone is AND you probably didn't think it was a strike.  So if it's borderline and you pull that shit it's getting called a ball."  

Framing is catching the ball and sticking it.  This isn't framing, it's moving the ball into the zone.  And Huckleberry is right, this is flopping, and I'd be fine if it was punished accordingly.  Just don't know how to accurately do that.  

You answered your own question with your disclaimer to the catchers.

Call the pitch, not the frame.  Sounds like that is your process.   Thank you for doing it right.

[Beau Vine 53722]

[Beau Vine 53722]

 

[shadow_operative 15931]

imagine the nfl allowing a guy to catch the ball with both feet out of bonds and calling it a catch. that's what we've got going on in the mlb.

[Huckleberry 32414]

Hayes went on to call for computerized ball/strike calls. Players finally having enough to the point where they're publicly calling for it. 

 

[Blotto 23287]

its ridiculous that calls that poor are allowed to impact a game when there is technology that can fix the problem. At a minimum, there should be a challenge system for missed calls that egregious, but I guess that would make the ump look bad. Here's an article from this spring from an athletic interview with Manfred about the topic. 

https://theathletic.com/4362682/2023/03/29/rob-manfred-automated-strike-zone/

Quote

A day before MLB’s 2023 season begins with a slew of rule changes, commissioner Rob Manfred called the automated ball-strike system “the next big one that’s on the agenda.”

“I do think that improved application of technology in the calling of balls and strikes over the long haul is a really good thing,” Manfred said.

But on Wednesday afternoon, Manfred also identified two reservations about introducing the automated ball and strike system, or ABS for short, and seemed to hint that he’s favoring one of the two forms of ABS over the other.

“No. 1, there is a body of the MLBPA unit … they refer to them as ‘framing catchers,’ that kind of make their living in the major leagues on their ability to frame pitches,” Manfred said during a luncheon hosted by the Paley Center for Media. “And you know, unions are kind of one for all, for one, I like unions, it’s a good thing, and it’s sort of a nice concept. And you have to understand that when you’re making a change, and it arguably could eliminate a certain kind of player — not a guy or two, but a certain kind of player — that’s an issue.”

The second issue is that ABS, at least thus far, interprets the strike zone differently than umpires.

“(Umpires) are really skilled and dramatically more consistent than 15 years ago as a result of the application of technology in the training process,” Manfred told moderator Tom Verducci. “Literally after every game, they get an email with the pitches they missed. They must log in and look at the ones they missed. And there’s commentary about how they missed, and why they missed.

“But what they call — you know, the rulebook strike zone’s a rectangle, above the middle of the plate — they call an oval. So they don’t call that inside corner, and that outside corner. There’s a reason they don’t call it: because you can’t hit that. Okay, so while we have the technology, it’s kind of right — accurate — there are issues that we need to work through before it’s ready for prime time.”

MLB is testing two applications of ABS in the minor leagues. With one, the umpire is told on every pitch what to call. The other is a challenge system, where a team has three challenges to an umpire’s call per game.

Manfred hinted that using ABS on every pitch, the more invasive approach, is less palatable.

“In the minor leagues, we have tested the umpire using (ABS) for every pitch in the game,” Manfred said. “Players know these things because they’re players — it does cause a problem with these corner pitches … because nobody has ever been trained to treat those as strikes, or hit them.”

But the challenge system, meanwhile, carries an appeal that’s similar to instant replay.

“The theory of instant replay was: fix the big miss,” Manfred said. “And we decided, well, why don’t we try the same theory? We’ll give pitchers, catchers, and hitters all the right to challenge a pitch, certain number per game. … It’s a very appealing way to correct a problem, or a miss, in a game where it can be a high-leverage situation.”

Although Manfred did not say this directly, theoretically, because the challenge system is used less frequently, it might also affect certain catchers less.

The challenge system also adds a strategy element, something Manfred said Yankees minor league manager Rachel Balkovec pointed out to him.

“What do you mean?” Manfred asked Balkovec.

“Some organizations let anyone who has the right to challenge — pitcher, batter, catcher — challenge,” Manfred recalled of her response. “Our organization, we only let the catcher challenge, because the pitcher and the batter, they run too hot.”

Overall, Manfred acknowledged that the response to ABS has somewhat surprised him, and used parallels to other technologies the sport has introduced to illustrate his point.

When MLB introduced the PitchCom system in spring training last year, giving catchers technology to communicate signs to pitchers via a headset, Manfred said the league’s intent was merely to run a test, rather than usher in change straight away.

“What actually happened is, players came back, said, ‘We want to use this now,'” Manfred said. “Forget testing, we want to use it now.’ Interestingly, we had the same phenomenon this year with the pitch clock.”

Once again this spring, the league tested new tech for sign-calling — this time a means of having the pitcher tell the catcher what pitch is coming, rather than vice versa.

“And what we heard from the pitchers is, with the pitch clock, they would prefer to be able to call the pitch, because it saves the time of shaking off a signal from the catcher,” Manfred said. “So once again, we were kind of caught short, we had to scramble around to get enough pitcher transmitters to be able to use it in the regular season. But I think it’s an example of players … become more accepting of technology on the field, and then dictating how and when it’s going to be used.

“The automated strike zone, this is another place: you know, you whiff sometimes. I held this belief for a really long time: if we could get a system that was … accurate to a tenth of an inch on every pitch, that everyone would carry us around on a big gold chair. We know that every pitch was right. It has not been received that way by players, and there are actually good reasons for it.”

Manfred said the system is today actually accurate to a tenth of an inch. Although ABS has been referred to as the “robo ump,” Manfred emphasized Wednesday that it’s a misnomer.

“I get emails from fans talking about the robot,” Manfred said. “There’s no robot. The umpire has an earpiece, it tells him what to call, he calls it just like he calls it today. It looks the same for the fan.”

So, is ABS going to arrive in 2024?

“The short answer is, I don’t know what’s going to happen going forward,” Manfred said. “I’m trying to get through this year’s change. We have some work to do, I think, on ABS.

 

[NorthLoop 13950]

Wow so much bullshit in that article. 

 

Quote

“But what they call — you know, the rulebook strike zone’s a rectangle, above the middle of the plate — they call an oval. So they don’t call that inside corner, and that outside corner. There’s a reason they don’t call it: because you can’t hit that.

bullshit. 

Quote

“No. 1, there is a body of the MLBPA unit … they refer to them as ‘framing catchers,’ that kind of make their living in the major leagues on their ability to frame pitches,”

bullshit - that's exactly the kind of shit we're trying to eliminate

 

Quote

“Our organization, we only let the catcher challenge, because the pitcher and the batter, they run too hot.”

LOL WUT? So the batting team is basically shit out of luck? 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by NorthLoop

[TonyTexas 10423]

1 hour ago, NorthLoop said:

LOL WUT? So the batting team is basically shit out of luck? 

 

That’s not how they are testing it in the minors. Each team gets 3 failed challenges per game. The catcher, pitcher or batter can call for one. 

[TonyTexas 10423]

 

1 hour ago, NorthLoop said:

LOL WUT? So the batting team is basically shit out of luck? 

That quote was from a manager saying that’s how his team manages the challenges. It’s easy to imagine a selfish pitcher or batter burning up challenges when it’s too close to call or in meaningless spots. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by TonyTexas

[Scraps 13487]

All i got to say on "pitch framing" is Ryan Jeffers needs to be kicked in the nuts regarding it

[uoftorange 1383]

The catcher has the absolute best view around.  They should know something like 99% of the time with 100% certainty that it's a ball or a strike

[TonyTexas 10423]

Amazing 

 

[The Dog 43418]

 

[VirginiaLonghorn 4724]

Does calling a pitch “Ball 3” rather than “Strike 2” late in a tie game matter?  Maybe not … but, maybe it does assuming the P doesn’t want to put the lead run on with a BB.

Nick Mahrley missed an obvious “Strike 2” to TB’s Luke Raley forcing Kyle Bradish to “get one over.”

Maybe Bradish would have thrown something other than a 3-1 meatball had the count been 2-2.  Maybe ..

Sour grapes?  Probably.  But, I was somewhat gratified to see Mahrley take a head jarring foul directly to the face mask on the very next pitch.  It got a huge response from the crowd.

[shadow_operative 15931]

 

[Huckleberry 32414]

Honestly my most hated sports figure right now. Stoops is retired, Venables is a dumbass, but this guy keeps on keeping on even though everyone knows and agrees he's the worst and yet he files lawsuits saying he's one of the best and deserves more promotions.

[shadow_operative 15931]

 

i might have just walked off and left the stadium and gone home if i was the hitter here.

[shadow_operative 15931]

 

 

[shadow_operative 15931]

guess who’s back? back again? 

 

[Pato del Muerto 52097]

It’s early March, right?

[miguelito 11110]

mid-season form.

[Beau Vine 53722]

I'm sorry, but seeing fat fucking tard Lance Lynn get ejected from practice is funny.

[dcar00 13956]

On 12/29/2023 at 12:51 PM, shadow_operative said:

 

 

"uh, what swing?" - Angel Hernandez

[BrazilHorn 6564]

I cannot wait until all these fuckers are replaced with robots/lasers/AI. 
 

Add zero value and needlessly inject themselves into the games. 

[MirrOlure 14466]

So I rabbit holed into Hernandez’s Wiki page and came across this gem (you baseball junkies probably already knew):

On August 7, 2001, Hernández was the home plate umpire for a game between the Chicago Cubs and the Colorado Rockies at Wrigley Field. In the bottom of the 6th inning, Hernández controversially called Cubs infielder Ron Coomer out at the plate. Former Chicago Bears defensive tackle Steve McMichael, who was visiting the Cubs television booth and who was the guest singer for Take Me Out to the Ball Game during the seventh-inning stretch, told those in attendance over the PA system that he would "have some speaks" with Hernández after the game, presumably because of Hernández's call against Coomer. A visibly angry Hernández was shown on camera glaring at McMichael from the field, muttering "son of a bitch". McMichael was subsequently ejected from the ballpark;

As if Mongo wasn’t already fucking awesome….

[shadow_operative 15931]

this should get you sent down for a couple of weeks. three runs ended up coming around:

 

[Beau Vine 53722]