Realignment talk not going away

[Hagbard Celine 10850]

1 hour ago, Tex Long said:

NSIAP

If nothing will do except expanding XII and going to N/S divisions with real CCG, why not BYU and AFA? Good academics, wide-spread fans... what don't you like about them? Other than the Ghost of Taysom?

BYU would be like replacing aggy with aggy.  We don't want any part of it.  AFA yes.  I have proposed several scenarios where we add the 3 service academies + domer, or better add the 3 academies and drop Bayler.

[Hagbard Celine 10850]

1 hour ago, Valmy77 said:

BYU has been the obvious candidate for expansion for years now but for whatever reason the deal has never been made. I presume the numbers just don't work to make them attractive..

Adding a service academy is out of the question. I mean I admire them and all but they don't belong in a P5 conference.

The Brethren don't bring anything, including numbers.  And the Academies belong just as much as Georgia Tech or Northwestern belong in their respective leagues.  And the academies bring numbers, coast to coast.  Put them all in one division for the President's Cup.

North: AF, Army, Navy, Istate, Kansas, Kstate, WVa

South: Bayler, 0u, oSu, TCU, Texas, Tech, (New Mexico / Tulane / Cougar High)

 

Domer would seriously consider joining this set-up if they had all 3 academies.

[gmr548 16576]

Do not want BYU. Mormon aggy is an apt description.

Most on here seem to not want Cincinnati, and I get that, but it is the one G5 school I can really get behind adding. Historically a good basketball program and a decent football program that has shown it can be top 25 with a good coaching staff. Large enrollment. Not an embarrassment academically - I'd wager it is above the B12 median in terms of research dollars, rankings, etc. It does bring a new market/recruiting footprint into the fold. Isn't a geographic reach. 

Beyond that, whole lotta meh. I guess I'd go with UH to get to 12 but I'm not dying for them to be in the conference either. I'd really just rather see them swapped for Baylor straight up cause fuck Baylor.

 

Edit: For clarity's sake, I am not really for expansion in general. It is clear there isn't a good way to execute it and the 10 team league works fine as it is, stupid ass championship game be damned. Just saying I think there is at least one decent option. Ultimately, we'll see what happens here in a few years once the B12 dies, which it likely will.

Also, no way Texas and OU stop playing, as conference mates or otherwise. Way too much moneyed interest there.

Edited February 28, 2019 by gmr548

[Hagbard Celine 10850]

Everyone here in the IT business remembers the "TOLA" abbreviation for a sales territory.  Here is the ultimate solution, for us and 0u:

Arkansas, LSU, 0u, oSu, TCU, Texas, Tech, Tulane?

[TXs 226]

3rd tier rights will become more valuable with the ability to stream those direct to consumers. Less incentive to need to "conference up"

[CastHorn 811]

Tulane & Colorado State. Colorado State has P5 potential and willing investors. Tulane is a reach but has the recruiting footprint to put something together with a commitment to athletics. 

[kopp0e 1135]

This: http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/collegefootball/Big-12-Pac-12-Strategic-Alliance-Document.pdf

imgur

Still sounds (as in the way it reads), pretty similar to this:

Quote

Big 12 expansion: Oral history of Big 8-SWC merger | SI.com

https://www.si.com/college.../2016/.../big-12-expansion-oral-history-big-8-swc-merge...

 

Aug 16, 2016 - Joe Castiglione, Missouri athletic director from 1993–98, Oklahoma athletic director from 1998-present: I don't ever remember having any feeling cross my mind of instability or being left behind. [The conference was] in the midst of celebrating a great run of success, and seeing the world outside us evolve, we were concerned that if we weren't proactive in addressing these opportunities, that we could find ourselves in a position where we weren't able to support the programs that we sponsored like we had been.

Dodds: It was a lot about television marketplace and our lack of it in the Southwest Conference. We had a lot of conversation internally about that on our staff, and then we reached out to Donnie Duncan, the AD at Oklahoma, because we saw the Big Eight in the same situation, not enough TV sets. Donnie was very open to talking about it. I think [the Big Eight was] pretty happy with [its] situation, and Donnie helped paint the picture of the future, and once everybody figured that out, it was evident that something had to be done.

 

[Chad 1728]

Cincy and Houston would be nice additions to the conference. Cincy historically has been a very successful basketball program with 2 natties and half a dozen final 4 appearances. Their football program is up and down, but joining a P5 conference would bolster their recruiting a bit and they would expand the Big 12's market area into Big 10 territory. Houston has had a decent football program historically and their basketball program is on the rise in recent years.

BYU would be a terrible fit for the conference, honestly they're just better off remaining independent. I don't believe any teams from the MWC, MAC or C-USA would be worth adding.

[kopp0e 1135]

On 2/28/2019 at 11:46 PM, Chad said:

Cincy and Houston would be nice additions to the conference. Cincy historically has been a very successful basketball program with 2 natties and half a dozen final 4 appearances. Their football program is up and down, but joining a P5 conference would bolster their recruiting a bit and they would expand the Big 12's market area into Big 10 territory. Houston has had a decent football program historically and their basketball program is on the rise in recent years.

BYU would be a terrible fit for the conference, honestly they're just better off remaining independent. I don't believe any teams from the MWC, MAC or C-USA would be worth adding.

It looks as if Houston & Cincinnati will sign an extension that doubles pay, with ESPN:

 

[Thiefery 4995]

Not sure why people keep pumping up BYU, AFA, Cincy, Memphis or even the Florida schools.  Big 12 is in a good place right now, and yes I too hate the CCG since it seems like it will be UT vs ou again for the foreseeable future. However, the conference seems to have found a way to make itself a path to the CFP.  As the PAC continues to struggle with attendance and their perception nationally, BIG 12 (UT/ou) can make a real move on a few of the unhappy schools out west.. or even decide to start a new conf with selected schools from the BIG12 and PAC.  Still think 12 is the best, but 14 will be ok.  Schools that don't have a seat can still merge with each other and have a decent P5 conference for sports.

 

[Big Frog II 511]

5 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

It looks as if Houston & Cincinnati will sign an extension that doubles pay, with ESPN:

 

I think that only goes from $2-3 million to $4-6 million.

[Hagbard Celine 10850]

On 2/28/2019 at 7:07 PM, CastHorn said:

Tulane & Colorado State. Colorado State has P5 potential and willing investors. Tulane is a reach but has the recruiting footprint to put something together with a commitment to athletics. 

thinking on it and Tulane might be a non-starter for LSU.  even less competitive than our all-time with aggy.  Tulane has 5 wins since ww2 and LSU hasn't given them a game in 10 years.

amending to ...... (ducks) ......:

Arkansas, LSU, 0u, oSu, TCU, Texas, Tech.......

....

New Mexico

[nnm 36349]

4 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

....

New Mexico

Um, no. 

From today’s ABQ Journal (behind pay wall so I reproduce an excerpt here):

“But lately, there has been a growing chorus to cut football or move it to a lower, less costly division.

That’s driven in part by poor attendance, which UNM lists on its athletic website as 16,587 on average over its six home games in 2018. However, in documents submitted postseason to the NCAA, UNM stated its actual average paid attendance was 10,962.”

https://www.abqjournal.com/1287130/unms-position-football-is-making-money-after-all.html

There is no upside to adding UNM. They bring no eyeballs. No increased TV ratings. No entry to recruiting areas (the entire state turns out 2-3 legit FBS players a year). No fan support. No administration support. No facilities. No money. No governmental support. And adding B12 membership won’t fix any of that except give more money to a failing program. 

I get that it’s a nice road trip for fans of opposing teams. But just go down to HEB, get yourself some hatch chile, and just say no to UNM sports. 

[Thiefery 4995]

So the Big 10 commish is stepping down/retiring next year.  Think he'll get a gold rolex for adding so much value to the conference (Rutgers)??

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

we are not expanding the Big 12 to add a bunch of charity cases who MIGHT become competitive if we boost them up

urge to kill rising

['stache 21795]

3 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

we are not expanding the Big 12 to add a bunch of charity cases who MIGHT become competitive if we boost them up

urge to kill rising

Yet you clicked on this thread. Methinks you just want to kill and need an excuse.

[LTtxfan 49144]

New Commissioner will be leading Big Ten soon.  Could change realignment talks??

http://footballscoop.com/news/jim-delany-retire-2020/

Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany will retire at the conclusion of his current contract on June 30, 2020, the conference announced Monday.

A search process has already begun to identify Delany’s successor, helmed by Northwestern president Morton Schapiro and run by Korn Ferry.

(Big 10....Please leave CDC alone)

Edited March 7, 2019 by LTtxfan

[gmr548 16576]

Not sure why people keep pumping up BYU, AFA, Cincy, Memphis or even the Florida schools.  Big 12 is in a good place right now, and yes I too hate the CCG since it seems like it will be UT vs ou again for the foreseeable future. However, the conference seems to have found a way to make itself a path to the CFP.  As the PAC continues to struggle with attendance and their perception nationally, BIG 12 (UT/ou) can make a real move on a few of the unhappy schools out west.. or even decide to start a new conf with selected schools from the BIG12 and PAC.  Still think 12 is the best, but 14 will be ok.  Schools that don't have a seat can still merge with each other and have a decent P5 conference for sports.
 

Agreed, ultimately. The B12 is in pretty decent financial shape until the end of the current media rights agreement. That is what drives things.

Ultimately the Pac 12 will be fine. USC will be back at some point and perception and eye balls come with that. Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and UCLA all draw some national attention as second tier programs. Maybe they drop some dead weight in the form of the four corners schools eventually, but those west coast schools are going to stick together.

Anything could happen to the B12. It could dissolve with Texas and OU parting ways. It could become a Big East-type quasi power conference conference if what's left adds the top half of the AAC and/ or MWC afterward. It could take the aforementioned four corners schools off the Pac's hands. Who knows. Ultimately, I think it is in Texas and OU's best interest to keep the conference together. They might make a bit more initially by moving to the SEC but they will pay for it in the long term as the brands suffer from cannibalization that accompanies such an arrangement.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Valmy77 13225]

On 2/27/2019 at 4:21 PM, Hagbard Celine said:

And the Academies belong just as much as Georgia Tech or Northwestern belong in their respective leagues.

The Academies themselves said that.

[Thiefery 4995]

16 hours ago, gmr548 said:

Agreed, ultimately. The B12 is in pretty decent financial shape until the end of the current media rights agreement. That is what drives things.

Ultimately the Pac 12 will be fine. USC will be back at some point and perception and eye balls come with that. Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and UCLA all draw some national attention as second tier programs. Maybe they drop some dead weight in the form of the four corners schools eventually, but those west coast schools are going to stick together.

Anything could happen to the B12. It could dissolve with Texas and OU parting ways. It could become a Big East-type quasi power conference conference if what's left adds the top half of the AAC and/ or MWC afterward. It could take the aforementioned four corners schools off the Pac's hands. Who knows. Ultimately, I think it is in Texas and OU's best interest to keep the conference together. They might make a bit more initially by moving to the SEC but they will pay for it in the long term as the brands suffer from cannibalization that accompanies such an arrangement.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

With Texas, ou recruiting well the past few seasons and it showing/beginning to show on the field, conference is looking better.  However to make a real jump, schools like tcu, osu, tech, Iowa st have to improve on the field too.  Get bowl eligible, win said bowls and begin to have a player or two selected in the first couple of days in the draft.  I still want baylor to be kicked out once the original contract expires.  Select Tulane for all I care and hopefully be able to poach two schools to form divisions again. Be it the AZ schools or a higher profile school currently in the BIG 10 or Pac 12 (Iowa? Corn? CU?)

 

[gmr548 16576]

With Texas, ou recruiting well the past few seasons and it showing/beginning to show on the field, conference is looking better.  However to make a real jump, schools like tcu, osu, tech, Iowa st have to improve on the field too.  Get bowl eligible, win said bowls and begin to have a player or two selected in the first couple of days in the draft.  I still want baylor to be kicked out once the original contract expires.  Select Tulane for all I care and hopefully be able to poach two schools to form divisions again. Be it the AZ schools or a higher profile school currently in the BIG 10 or Pac 12 (Iowa? Corn? CU?)
 

Over the past decade, it's been the middle group that has kept this conference from being a national laughing stock, and actually consistently a top three football conference, while Texas, and to a lesser extent OU have struggled.

The question isn't whether they can perform - OSU and TCU should have played for national championships and KSU/Baylor both had years of being one game away. Iowa State has put back to back eight win years together. It's whether they can continue to do so if Texas is ressserting itself. Fortunately this is the best-coached league in CFB, so those programs will continue to punch above their weight class as long as Pattetson, Gundy, Campbell, etc. are around. I think KSU is headed back to the dark ages unfortunately.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Al_4_ISU 12451]

I don't see Texas being back a bar from us consistently winning 8-9 games.

We need to stay on top of WVU/Tech/KSU to reach our potential.  Realistically we can't expect to beat Texas and OU more than 3-4 times a decade, combined (I believe we have 3 combined wins over those in the last 10 years).

[Hank Chinaski 6314]

On 3/2/2019 at 2:21 PM, nnm said:

Um, no. 

From today’s ABQ Journal (behind pay wall so I reproduce an excerpt here):

“But lately, there has been a growing chorus to cut football or move it to a lower, less costly division.

That’s driven in part by poor attendance, which UNM lists on its athletic website as 16,587 on average over its six home games in 2018. However, in documents submitted postseason to the NCAA, UNM stated its actual average paid attendance was 10,962.”

https://www.abqjournal.com/1287130/unms-position-football-is-making-money-after-all.html

There is no upside to adding UNM. They bring no eyeballs. No increased TV ratings. No entry to recruiting areas (the entire state turns out 2-3 legit FBS players a year). No fan support. No administration support. No facilities. No money. No governmental support. And adding B12 membership won’t fix any of that except give more money to a failing program. 

I get that it’s a nice road trip for fans of opposing teams. But just go down to HEB, get yourself some hatch chile, and just say no to UNM sports. 

I live in ABQ (I assume you also live somewhere around here based on user name), and there is (unfortunately) a lot of truth here. UNM needs to focus on being competitive in the MW. 

I do think the UNM program has the potential to be on the level of a Boise St or Fresno St or SDSU - mid-level programs that are typically anywhere from good to very good. The problem is that the university overall is a mess. Enrollment is way down, leading to budget deficits across the board. There is a new university president and AD (and new governor), so hopefully they can start getting this turned around. 

The athletics dept has been mired in controversy (the ousted former AD is dealing with fraud charges) and just cut a bunch of sports, which pissed off a lot of people. Meanwhile, the football program is sputtering along under Bob Davie, who obviously sucks. The school actually does have fan support, and plenty of people care, but the football team has been horrid for a couple of years (basketball draws fairly well, though they have been awful this year too). The article referenced here is actually about how football made a profit this year, which most didn't expect. 

The program has challenges, certainly - it is a scarcely populated state that doesn't produce a lot of talent. However - it also sits between Texas, Colorado and Arizona. UNM needs an innovative up-and-coming coach, not a retread nearing retirement. The program should be able to pull enough kids from surrounding states to field competitive teams. But even then - to your point - the MW is perfect for UNM - it is a good, mid-major football league and UNM's ceiling seems to be that of a good, mid-major program. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Hank Chinaski

[LTtxfan 49144]

http://footballscoop.com/news/oregon-ad-pac-12-finances-drifting-range/

PAC12 struggling with money......

"The Pac-12 needs more of it...... According to an internal projection provided to USA Today last year, the Pac-12 will distribute $38 million to its members in 2023 — which sounds incredible if you’re still living in 2010, but is absolutely distressing when you remember the Big Ten distributed $51 million last year. The ACC was previously Conference 5 of the Power 5 leagues, but later this year they’ll launch an ESPN-powered network of their own, just like the SEC, which will become the home of the reigning football national champions and the biggest and best conference in men’s basketball.

“You have to flash back,” Oregon AD told The Oregonian. “Yes, it’s not what we want, that’s for sure. But we did make great progress in this deal. In the old Pac-12 TV deals we were basically on regional TV and our resources were way behind. When this new deal was done it closed the gap both in visibility and in resources, but the gap has widened again. We have to figure out how to close that gap. Resources do matter. We don’t have to have everything that everyone else has but we have to remain in a range that makes us competitive. And right now, we’re drifting out of range.”

The Pac-12 is in preparations to negotiate its next round of Tier 1 TV deals when the $3 billion dealit signed with ESPN and Fox in 2011 expires in 2023-24 — a contract that seemed revolutionary at the time but now seems like (relatively) small potatoes — but then again, everyone else will sign TV deals in the middle of the next decade, too.

Amid the realignment craze of 2010-11, the Pac-12 bet on itself by funding and launching its own TV network, rather than partnering with ESPN (SEC, ACC) or Fox (Big Ten), and that bet has come up snake eyes.

The conference has floated the idea of selling an equity stake in itself, but that’s a short-term fix, not a long-term solution.

So, what is the solution? If anyone out there has it, the Pac-12 offices would love to know.

While we’re at it, two more questions: What happens if and when the Pac-12 truly does drift out of range? And, given the conference’s performance over the past three years, are we sure it hasn’t happened already?

[Thiefery 4995]

13 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

http://footballscoop.com/news/oregon-ad-pac-12-finances-drifting-range/

PAC12 struggling with money......

"The Pac-12 needs more of it...... According to an internal projection provided to USA Today last year, the Pac-12 will distribute $38 million to its members in 2023 — which sounds incredible if you’re still living in 2010, but is absolutely distressing when you remember the Big Ten distributed $51 million last year. The ACC was previously Conference 5 of the Power 5 leagues, but later this year they’ll launch an ESPN-powered network of their own, just like the SEC, which will become the home of the reigning football national champions and the biggest and best conference in men’s basketball.

“You have to flash back,” Oregon AD told The Oregonian. “Yes, it’s not what we want, that’s for sure. But we did make great progress in this deal. In the old Pac-12 TV deals we were basically on regional TV and our resources were way behind. When this new deal was done it closed the gap both in visibility and in resources, but the gap has widened again. We have to figure out how to close that gap. Resources do matter. We don’t have to have everything that everyone else has but we have to remain in a range that makes us competitive. And right now, we’re drifting out of range.”

The Pac-12 is in preparations to negotiate its next round of Tier 1 TV deals when the $3 billion dealit signed with ESPN and Fox in 2011 expires in 2023-24 — a contract that seemed revolutionary at the time but now seems like (relatively) small potatoes — but then again, everyone else will sign TV deals in the middle of the next decade, too.

Amid the realignment craze of 2010-11, the Pac-12 bet on itself by funding and launching its own TV network, rather than partnering with ESPN (SEC, ACC) or Fox (Big Ten), and that bet has come up snake eyes.

The conference has floated the idea of selling an equity stake in itself, but that’s a short-term fix, not a long-term solution.

So, what is the solution? If anyone out there has it, the Pac-12 offices would love to know.

While we’re at it, two more questions: What happens if and when the Pac-12 truly does drift out of range? And, given the conference’s performance over the past three years, are we sure it hasn’t happened already?

So they did everything in house as far the network setup?  So only thing that hampered them was finding cable/satellite co's to add their network to it's lineup?  They might as well go the app route

[Magus Ossis 2797]

For media revenue income, Texas would be slightly above the average in the big 10. They are raking in cash up there. For reference, they distributed over 50 mil per school. SEC  43. Big 12 36ish (plus our 15 for LHN). OU comes in at about the SEC level with their tier 3 deal. I'm not particularly interested in a league full of cold, boring, far-off partners, but we need to consider that If one ranks media revenue at Texas, Minnesota, USC, Florida, Bama, and OU, the (fairly close) #2 is Minnesota, with a good-sized gap behind them and #3. What would Texas' market presence mean for the deals they already are able to secure?

[SWC 136]

On 3/10/2019 at 10:32 PM, LTtxfan said:

http://footballscoop.com/news/oregon-ad-pac-12-finances-drifting-range/

PAC12 struggling with money......

"The Pac-12 needs more of it...... According to an internal projection provided to USA Today last year, the Pac-12 will distribute $38 million to its members in 2023 — which sounds incredible if you’re still living in 2010, but is absolutely distressing when you remember the Big Ten distributed $51 million last year. The ACC was previously Conference 5 of the Power 5 leagues, but later this year they’ll launch an ESPN-powered network of their own, just like the SEC, which will become the home of the reigning football national champions and the biggest and best conference in men’s basketball.

“You have to flash back,” Oregon AD told The Oregonian. “Yes, it’s not what we want, that’s for sure. But we did make great progress in this deal. In the old Pac-12 TV deals we were basically on regional TV and our resources were way behind. When this new deal was done it closed the gap both in visibility and in resources, but the gap has widened again. We have to figure out how to close that gap. Resources do matter. We don’t have to have everything that everyone else has but we have to remain in a range that makes us competitive. And right now, we’re drifting out of range.”

The Pac-12 is in preparations to negotiate its next round of Tier 1 TV deals when the $3 billion dealit signed with ESPN and Fox in 2011 expires in 2023-24 — a contract that seemed revolutionary at the time but now seems like (relatively) small potatoes — but then again, everyone else will sign TV deals in the middle of the next decade, too.

Amid the realignment craze of 2010-11, the Pac-12 bet on itself by funding and launching its own TV network, rather than partnering with ESPN (SEC, ACC) or Fox (Big Ten), and that bet has come up snake eyes.

The conference has floated the idea of selling an equity stake in itself, but that’s a short-term fix, not a long-term solution.

So, what is the solution? If anyone out there has it, the Pac-12 offices would love to know.

While we’re at it, two more questions: What happens if and when the Pac-12 truly does drift out of range? And, given the conference’s performance over the past three years, are we sure it hasn’t happened already?

The B1G states have a huge deficit in the quality of high school football players.  Unless Fox thinks that the B1G is just going to buy the players from the south east, Texas, and California, I don't see the reasoning here.  Maybe DAZN can come in and provide an over the top format for people to subscribe directly to PAC football games.  The goal here is to WIN.  Winning will cure the problems.  Until they can turn their quality around, they are going to have to accept less and win more.  Texas and OU are going to have to do the same.

Edited March 12, 2019 by SWC

[kopp0e 1135]

This might have an effect on conference realignment...

 

[ButtFumble 5164]

boren stayed WAY too long and did nothing to elevate academics which was his mandate and mission when he took the job...OU pretty much barely kept up with others under his "leadership" and of course his main focus was to meddle in athletics and make an ass of himself doing so

their research did next to nothing and their endowment did grow, but no real rankings advancement and not close to what one would think the goal would have been with such a big drool talking non wallflower in charge

john not-so-sharp reminds me a lot of boren and he is going down the same piss poor path....now we need to see if there is some desperate female that will claim not-so sexually harassed her.....shit if it can happen with boren all bets are off as to who else it can happen with

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

10 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

their endowment did grow,

the Dow was @ 6500 when he became president @ OU, and it's at 26,000 now

I would hope their endowment grew, over that time

he always struck me as a car salesman, perfect for OU or A&M

Edited May 13, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[ButtFumble 5164]

7 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

the Dow was @ 6500 when he became president @ OU, and it's at 26,000 now

I would hope their endowment grew, over that time

he always struck me as a car salesman, perfect for OU or A&M

if you look at some comparable growth OU did better than some others.....Tech moved up more in the NACUBO report, but Tech also went from reporting as a university to reporting as a system

OkState moved up a bit more in terms of their place on the list, but once you get into the billion dollar realm (where OU is) it is harder to move up

OU looks to have had better movement earlier in his term Vs later, but again once you get to the billion dollar+ range it is harder to move up because of the nature of the others in that range

and he is used car like and is similar to what aggy would love

Edited May 13, 2019 by ButtFumble

[Machinator 32099]

 

[jdhorn92 1545]

$40M per B12 school this year (before 3rd tier) is not small amount of dough.

[Machinator 32099]

 

[Big Frog II 511]

$38.8 million has got to be enticing for some of the Pac-12 schools.

[rickyspub 801]

ACC paid out an average of $29.5M per school. The end of the article lists the Big 10 at the top with an average distribution of $54M to everyone but Maryland and Rutgers. SEC comes in with a $43.7M per school average, Pac is at $31.5M (or $29.5M if you take out the 'actual cash distributions' claimed by Larry Scott). Of course, it should be noted that these distributions include all T3 media unlike the Big 12.

Texas probably still tops everyone and the average Big 12 earnings per team is likely in line with the SEC. 

[Valmy77 13225]

Damn. Our schools probably managed to out revenue everybody not in the Big 10. Nice work conference money guys.

[kopp0e 1135]

8 hours ago, Big Frog II said:

$38.8 million has got to be enticing for some of the Pac-12 schools.

A plan I could see coming to fruition as PAC gor's expire 2024/ XII gor's expire 2025; birth of PX6 (similar to SWC/ Big 8 merger):

Most valuable brands (not much explanation needed, as these are the "kings" of the expanded PX6, similar to Big 8/ SWC merger:

#1) Oklahoma- ESPN would prefer to keep Oklahoma in the fold from the "unknown" of losing the Sooners to a rival network as FOX...
#1) Texas- ESPN already showed in 2010 that there was a concern of losing the Longhorns to the "unknown" of a 16 member PAC...
#1) USC- I believe ESPN would prefer having USC under it's banner of programs offered long term, as opposed to losing to TNT/ AT&T, ect...

Somewhat valued brands in large populous states (some could be interchangeable, but best if left in a "grouping" with USC & Texas:
*These schools may not hold their weight by themselves for networks, but all together help "sway" UT & USC that keeps a "grouping"...

#4) UCLA- A key piece needed to make a move to XII seem attractive for USC, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...
#5) California- A key piece needed to make a move to XII seem attractive for USC, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...
#6) Stanford- A key piece needed to make a move to XII seem attractive for USC, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...
#7) Texas Tech - A key piece needed to make a flip of LHN seem attractive for UT, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...
#8) TCU- A key piece needed to make a flip of LHN seem attractive for UT, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...

State flagships that add valuable brands that expand a footprint & allow for continuity between XII & PAC footprints in a merged league:

#9) Washington- All of these programs would add some value to the league in expanding the footprint/ while making the league feel as one...
#10) Oregon- All of these programs would add some value to the league in expanding the footprint/ while making the league feel as one...
#11) Colorado- All of these programs would add some value to the league in expanding the footprint/ while making the league feel as one...
#12) Arizona- All of these programs would add some value to the league in expanding the footprint/ while making the league feel as one...
#13) Kansas- All of these programs would add some value to the league in expanding the footprint/ while making the league feel as one...

If the plan would be for say ESPN (& and another partner as mentioned for 1st/ 2nd tier rights as FOX or Amazon) any of these schools could get the last 3 slots...
ESPN would be key in repackaging both of PACN (if dissolved at end of PAC GoR's in 2024 for higher promised revenues) LHN (is "flipped" from 1 to 16 teams)...

#14) Oklahoma State-A potential valued option for OU to make a move to PX6 seem attractive for OU, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...
#15) Arizona State- Having a 2nd team in a state considered in many publications as one of the fastest growing nationally wouldn't hurt a PX6 merger...
#16) Utah- (or) Iowa State- Both are great options for a combined league, and I feel that depending on how "pieces" were moved, both could have a spot...

I hope this helps clear up my "wacky" vision, that could keep things somewhat familiar for Oklahoma/Texas/USC long term, vs being "newbies" in another league...

7 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Damn. Our schools probably managed to out revenue everybody not in the Big 10. Nice work conference money guys.

Texas earned $38.8 million from XII 1st/ 2nd tier, $15 million from LHN: $54 million...
Oklahoma earned $38.8 million from 1st/ 2nd tier, (roughly/ at least) $8 million from SStv: $47 million...

All the while, both still control the ability to potentially poach PAC brands to XII, and keep fiefdom/ most of current rivals and:

#0) Texas may choose the option that least adverse to altering a revenue stream that has UT #1 in earnings/ stays "kings"...
#1) Texas keeping most regional rivals/ closeness of road trips for away games while expanding to major markets out west...
#2) Texas gaining elite AAU schools in many flagship states while expanding recruiting pipelines into the state of California...
#3) Texas having ability to keep the game in Fair Park secure as a conference clash vs Sooners, as opposed to out-of-league...
#4) Texas gaining the leverage of multiple networks bidding for rights to brands as Oklahoma/ USC under 1 banner in a PX6...
#5) Texas being afforded the option to have a singular 3rd tier network until 2031, or to have a league-wide PX6N in 2025...
#6) Texas not being isolated in B1G west that places Texas with 1 prime conference matchup per season (Nebraska)...
#7) Texas can now play Michigan & Ohio State as often now as out-of-conference foes, as possible in a 16 team B1G setup...
#8) Texas is able to still work with BTAA as a non-member of B1G, while not drastically altering the pipelines for recruiting...
#9) Texas gaining security of never having to worry about B1G could look to add members to east (ACC in 2026) to league...

imgur>

Both earne more (in overall total athletics revenue UT #1/ OU #7) than schools in B1G not named Michigan or Ohio State, to say the least; while keeping "king" status in XII...

Edited June 1, 2019 by kopp0e

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

In 2010, some people were pretty gung ho about the idea of the Texoma-to-Pac-12 scenario. I think the Pac-12's terrible decade since has kind of squashed some of that enthusiasm, at least from a strictly on-field football perspective

[Magus Ossis 2797]

Big 10 has crushed everybody else in media revenue. We are the king of B12 $$$, but we make essentially the same as Northwestern.

I wonder (1) whether their revenue model is sustainable at that level as the media landscape changes, (2) whether it is an opportunity unique to their geography or possibly can be exported, (3) whether we (alone, as a small group, as a major alignment) have a future with them, (4) whether they might try to expand into pac turf, and (5) if the big "12" falls far enough behind the "10" (especially if OU looks around), we would ever look at the ND model.

[kopp0e 1135]

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

In 2010, some people were pretty gung ho about the idea of the Texoma-to-Pac-12 scenario. I think the Pac-12's terrible decade since has kind of squashed some of that enthusiasm, at least from a strictly on-field football perspective

Well, in my case, that's why I see it as XII brands (by proxy of ESPN, potentially) looking to add the majority of PAC to XII; as ESPN offered earlier this year:

 

 

1

Quote

Pac-12 reportedly turned down offer from ESPN to distribute Pac-12 ...

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/.../pac-12-reportedly-turned-down-offer-fro...

Mar 25, 2019 - ESPN offered to help distribute the Pac-12 Network in exchange for a reworked media rights deal, and the Pac-12 turned it down. Now what?

The last time that occurred, 2012 (when Big East declined ESPN offer, ACC was used to place Big East brands there, same is possible in 2025...

1 hour ago, Magus Ossis said:

Big 10 has crushed everybody else in media revenue. We are the king of B12 $$$, but we make essentially the same as Northwestern.

I wonder (1) whether their revenue model is sustainable at that level as the media landscape changes, (2) whether it is an opportunity unique to their geography or possibly can be exported, (3) whether we (alone, as a small group, as a major alignment) have a future with them, (4) whether they might try to expand into pac turf, and (5) if the big "12" falls far enough behind the "10" (especially if OU looks around), we would ever look at the ND model.

As of now, somehow B1G school Rutgers is projecting to gain full shares, not during this contract, but in next contract (full payments by 2027):

imgur

Quote

Rutgers says full Big Ten share delayed until 2027 - Asbury Park Press

 

https://www.app.com/story/sports/.../rutgers/...rutgers-not...big-ten...2027/2743539002/

Feb 1, 2019 - A newly released report states, among other things, that Rutgers will not get a fullrevenue share from the Big Ten until 2027.

I have no idea how to budget a contract that expires in 2023/ expect continued increases when we don't know if cable subs losses have hit a "ceiling" by then...

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, Magus Ossis said:

I wonder (1) whether their revenue model is sustainable at that level as the media landscape changes,

I really don't think so, but it might be a question of "cuts" in the Washington budget sense-- a reduction in growth is portrayed as a "cut" when it's just a smaller increase percentage-wise than initially forecast. The B1G's media payouts won't continue to grow along the same curve but they'll grow, until or unless something radically changes and by that I'm talking about something like a 64-team "super conference" version of CFB, that sort of thing.

[nnm 36349]

4 hours ago, kopp0e said:

A plan I could see coming to fruition as PAC gor's expire 2024/ XII gor's expire 2025; birth of PX6 (similar to SWC/ Big 8 merger):

Most valuable brands (not much explanation needed, as these are the "kings" of the expanded PX6, similar to Big 8/ SWC merger:

#1) Oklahoma- ESPN would prefer to keep Oklahoma in the fold from the "unknown" of losing the Sooners to a rival network as FOX...
#1) Texas- ESPN already showed in 2010 that there was a concern of losing the Longhorns to the "unknown" of a 16 member PAC...
#1) USC- I believe ESPN would prefer having USC under it's banner of programs offered long term, as opposed to losing to TNT/ AT&T, ect...

Somewhat valued brands in large populous states (some could be interchangeable, but best if left in a "grouping" with USC & Texas:
*These schools may not hold their weight by themselves for networks, but all together help "sway" UT & USC that keeps a "grouping"...

#4) UCLA- A key piece needed to make a move to XII seem attractive for USC, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...
#5) California- A key piece needed to make a move to XII seem attractive for USC, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...
#6) Stanford- A key piece needed to make a move to XII seem attractive for USC, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...
#7) Texas Tech - A key piece needed to make a flip of LHN seem attractive for UT, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...
#8) TCU- A key piece needed to make a flip of LHN seem attractive for UT, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...

State flagships that add valuable brands that expand a footprint & allow for continuity between XII & PAC footprints in a merged league:

#9) Washington- All of these programs would add some value to the league in expanding the footprint/ while making the league feel as one...
#10) Oregon- All of these programs would add some value to the league in expanding the footprint/ while making the league feel as one...
#11) Colorado- All of these programs would add some value to the league in expanding the footprint/ while making the league feel as one...
#12) Arizona- All of these programs would add some value to the league in expanding the footprint/ while making the league feel as one...
#13) Kansas- All of these programs would add some value to the league in expanding the footprint/ while making the league feel as one...

If the plan would be for say ESPN (& and another partner as mentioned for 1st/ 2nd tier rights as FOX or Amazon) any of these schools could get the last 3 slots...
ESPN would be key in repackaging both of PACN (if dissolved at end of PAC GoR's in 2024 for higher promised revenues) LHN (is "flipped" from 1 to 16 teams)...

#14) Oklahoma State-A potential valued option for OU to make a move to PX6 seem attractive for OU, as regional rivals would be a factor in the move...
#15) Arizona State- Having a 2nd team in a state considered in many publications as one of the fastest growing nationally wouldn't hurt a PX6 merger...
#16) Utah- (or) Iowa State- Both are great options for a combined league, and I feel that depending on how "pieces" were moved, both could have a spot...

I hope this helps clear up my "wacky" vision, that could keep things somewhat familiar for Oklahoma/Texas/USC long term, vs being "newbies" in another league...

Texas earned $38.8 million from XII 1st/ 2nd tier, $15 million from LHN: $54 million...
Oklahoma earned $38.8 million from 1st/ 2nd tier, (roughly/ at least) $8 million from SStv: $47 million...

All the while, both still control the ability to potentially poach PAC brands to XII, and keep fiefdom/ most of current rivals and:

#0) Texas may choose the option that least adverse to altering a revenue stream that has UT #1 in earnings/ stays "kings"...
#1) Texas keeping most regional rivals/ closeness of road trips for away games while expanding to major markets out west...
#2) Texas gaining elite AAU schools in many flagship states while expanding recruiting pipelines into the state of California...
#3) Texas having ability to keep the game in Fair Park secure as a conference clash vs Sooners, as opposed to out-of-league...
#4) Texas gaining the leverage of multiple networks bidding for rights to brands as Oklahoma/ USC under 1 banner in a PX6...
#5) Texas being afforded the option to have a singular 3rd tier network until 2031, or to have a league-wide PX6N in 2025...
#6) Texas not being isolated in B1G west that places Texas with 1 prime conference matchup per season (Nebraska)...
#7) Texas can now play Michigan & Ohio State as often now as out-of-conference foes, as possible in a 16 team B1G setup...
#8) Texas is able to still work with BTAA as a non-member of B1G, while not drastically altering the pipelines for recruiting...
#9) Texas gaining security of never having to worry about B1G could look to add members to east (ACC in 2026) to league...

 

 

Both earne more (in overall total athletics revenue UT #1/ OU #7) than schools in B1G not named Michigan or Ohio State, to say the least; while keeping "king" status in XII...

Any plan kicking Baylor to the curb has my vote. 

[HtownHorn 14663]

There is no way the Cali schools are going to leave the Pac conference. Arizona, Arizona State are ripe for the picking. Doubtful Colorado ever comes back and Utah makes little sense. The 4 Northwest schools are just too far.

I was also told that the reason Barnes decided to stay at Tennessee instead of taking the UCLA job was under the current tax laws in California his buyout would have been taxable. So if UCLA had paid his buyout which was around $4M, I think, Barnes would have owed taxes on it.

The California schools are going to have a lot of issues getting good coaches to come to their state.

[Valmy77 13225]

14 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

There is no way the Cali schools are going to leave the Pac conference. Arizona, Arizona State are ripe for the picking. Doubtful Colorado ever comes back and Utah makes little sense. The 4 Northwest schools are just too far.

I was also told that the reason Barnes decided to stay at Tennessee instead of taking the UCLA job was under the current tax laws in California his buyout would have been taxable. So if UCLA had paid his buyout which was around $4M, I think, Barnes would have owed taxes on it.

The California schools are going to have a lot of issues getting good coaches to come to their state.

This isn't new and there are states with higher taxes and they haven't had problems in the past. I see little evidence beyond this one anecdote this is really true. If it was no good baseball players would play for the Red Sox or Yankees, just the Rangers and Rays

[atomheartbevo 89628]

8 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

In 2010, some people were pretty gung ho about the idea of the Texoma-to-Pac-12 scenario. I think the Pac-12's terrible decade since has kind of squashed some of that enthusiasm, at least from a strictly on-field football perspective

They realized that trading one group of sisters of the poor, that are within our region, for another group of sisters of the poor that are on the West Coast does nothing for our SoS.  

They realized they/we would probably be attending fewer games, both because away games get really expensive and time consuming to get to, and because there’s no rivalry.   

[kopp0e 1135]

On 6/1/2019 at 4:12 PM, atomheartbevo said:

They realized that trading one group of sisters of the poor, that are within our region, for another group of sisters of the poor that are on the West Coast does nothing for our SoS.  

They realized they/we would probably be attending fewer games, both because away games get really expensive and time consuming to get to, and because there’s no rivalry.   

Well, Oklahoma & Texas can keep the status as kings & power brokers within an expanded footprint linking 2 most populous states in America: 

Quote

Texas: 10th Largest Economy in the World - Business Xpansion Journal

bxjmag.com/texas-10th-largest-economy-in-the-world/
Apr 5, 2018 - If Texas were a nation, it would rank as the 10th largest economy in the world based on GDP. Texas continues to maintain its position as the ...

Quote

California now the world's 5th largest economy, beating out the UK

https://www.usatoday.com/story/.../california...worlds...largest-economy.../583508002/
May 5, 2018 - SACRAMENTO, Calif. – California's economy has surpassed that of the United Kingdom to become the world's fifth largest, according to new ...

The point being, Stranger Things have happened: *(press the word "play", after clicking on this link, for the intro to the elite brands within a PX6)... 

Edited June 3, 2019 by kopp0e

[Valmy77 13225]

What we are doing right now seems to be working. We are competitive in revenue and getting teams into the playoffs and championships or the major sports. Stay the course I say.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Valmy77

[nnm 36349]

5 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

What we are doing right now seems to be working. We are competitive in revenue and getting teams into the playoffs and championships or the major sports. Stay the course I say.

Haven’t you heard?  It’s a BDF. Stupid sip. Advantage aggy. 

[Thiefery 4995]

That 16 conference hypothetical doesn't look too bad, especially since Texas would only play one Pac school during the regular season? And even then, maybe Texas should stand pat.