Realignment talk not going away

[TXK 0]

On 8/20/2019 at 10:40 AM, DFW Horn said:

If it's only about money, sure, CO is the only school that should return to the Big 12.

Arky, NE, and MO would all benefit by coming back from a recruiting and competitive standpoint. They need TX recruits to build up their programs.

Arkansas would win financially very quicklyjust with the travel money saved across all sports.

[Chili dog 1787]

37 minutes ago, TXK said:

Arkansas would win financially very quicklyjust with the travel money saved across all sports.

At the risk of starting another geography discussion, what about Mizzou being somehow stuck in the East Division? That travel budget has to be astronomical.  

[Al_4_ISU 12458]

It's just fucking weird anyway.  You'd think OU fans were all schizophrenic bipolar basket cases by reading it.  "We are the greatest, most oppressed, most decorated, least respected, most independent, most hamstrung by a conference, richest, poorest program in America!"
 

“The Big 12 is killing our program!”

“We’ve been to 3 out of 5 playoffs and had back to back Heismans!”

Well, which is it?

[S11 16]

Arkansas would win financially very quicklyjust with the travel money saved across all sports.

I’m not so sure on that given their SEC tv deal and the SECs added bowl tie in as a part time Orange Bowl option in addition to the Sugar Bowl.

That said if they started winning big their ticket, donation, merchandising, and other rights would go up in all likelihood.

[LTbear 4168]

I do think Arky would come out better in all aspects if in the Big XII. They would certainly be able to compete better and get back into Texas recruiting, and wins bring engagement, ticket sales and donations. Plus several Big XII teams would actually care about playing Arkansas. Even after all this time, no one in the SEC gives a damn about them.

Edited August 24, 2019 by LTbear

[XOVERX 5]

Do far as I can tell, the vast majority of hogs love life in the SEC.

[TXK 0]

13 hours ago, XOVERX said:

Do far as I can tell, the vast majority of hogs love life in the SEC.

Living so much of my recent life in Texarkana and having gone to a few games in Fayetteville, I'll say that must hogs I know would give their left arm to have regular games with Texas and Oklahoma and even Oklahoma State. None of them feel like they have a true SEC rival. They just don't want to be seen as quitters.

 

Money wise the costs saved plus increased sales from actually winning would do them good. Watch attendance if they don't win this year... The BIG12 won't have to invite them. In a couple of years they'll be begging.

 

I think Colorado should come back as well as Nebraska but that's just opinion and wish. For Arkansas it just makes business sense.

[DFW Horn 6123]

17 minutes ago, TXK said:

Money wise the costs saved plus increased sales from actually winning would do them good. Watch attendance if they don't win this year... The BIG12 won't have to invite them. In a couple of years they'll be begging.

What makes you think Arky can win in the Big 12 right now? It'd take a few years of recruiting east TX blue-chips to have a shot in our league, too. Yeah, I know they beat a poorly-coached Charlie Strong team in the Texas Bowl.

[XOVERX 5]

14 minutes ago, TXK said:

Living so much of my recent life in Texarkana and having gone to a few games in Fayetteville, I'll say that must hogs I know would give their left arm to have regular games with Texas and Oklahoma and even Oklahoma State. None of them feel like they have a true SEC rival. They just don't want to be seen as quitters.

 

Money wise the costs saved plus increased sales from actually winning would do them good. Watch attendance if they don't win this year... The BIG12 won't have to invite them. In a couple of years they'll be begging.

 

I think Colorado should come back as well as Nebraska but that's just opinion and wish. For Arkansas it just makes business sense.

Well, you are out in the field, so I will defer to you on the subject of the hogs.

Does travel savings sufficiently offset the additional money made from the SEC? There's a lot of Olympic sports out there, though, so travel expenses are a legitimate issue for the hogs.

Also, there's no arguing the championship competitiveness as time has told the tale there. The hogs are simply an afterthought in the SEC - a true "filler" program.

AR, CU, and NU would rebuild the B12. I don't personally see it happening, but in 5 years or less the B12 quandary, if there is such a quandary, will be resolved.

[iamjethro 98]

My opinion (which means nothing)is that it won't matter soon enough.  At some point the NCAA is gonna decide they want to be even more like the NFL.  There will be a division of 64 or 72 or whatever number they choose, and those teams will be divided into geographic regions for conferences.  Maybe 8 conferences of  8 or 9 teams.

The winners of those conferences will all go to playoffs and you can schedule around  your conference with whoever you choose cos those wins or losses will not bother your playoff chances, just your seeding.

Edited August 26, 2019 by iamjethro

[bullet 1596]

On 8/18/2019 at 2:57 PM, TeddyBearStallion said:

And how exactly would that improve CFB or make it any more interesting after the novelty of that arrangement wears off?

I'm not opining on whether it is better or not.  Just that it is a reasonable possibility as the big schools try to get as much cash as possible.

[bullet 1596]

On 8/24/2019 at 6:01 PM, LTbear said:

I do think Arky would come out better in all aspects if in the Big XII. They would certainly be able to compete better and get back into Texas recruiting, and wins bring engagement, ticket sales and donations. Plus several Big XII teams would actually care about playing Arkansas. Even after all this time, no one in the SEC gives a damn about them.

Yes, but it would be hard to sell.

[bullet 1596]

12 hours ago, TXK said:

Living so much of my recent life in Texarkana and having gone to a few games in Fayetteville, I'll say that must hogs I know would give their left arm to have regular games with Texas and Oklahoma and even Oklahoma State. None of them feel like they have a true SEC rival. They just don't want to be seen as quitters.

 

Money wise the costs saved plus increased sales from actually winning would do them good. Watch attendance if they don't win this year... The BIG12 won't have to invite them. In a couple of years they'll be begging.

 

I think Colorado should come back as well as Nebraska but that's just opinion and wish. For Arkansas it just makes business sense.

CU has too many of its big money people in California as well as the biggest chunk of their out of state alumni.  And Arizona has more CU alums than all the Big 12 states put together other than Texas (which is #2 site for their alums).

[notre dame joe 187]

4 hours ago, bullet said:

CU has too many of its big money people in California as well as the biggest chunk of their out of state alumni.  And Arizona has more CU alums than all the Big 12 states put together other than Texas (which is #2 site for their alums).

source?

[Thiefery 4995]

add arkansas and tulane, the conference would be set... or add arkansas and kick out baylor.  However I believe that if the big 12 went back to two divisions, it would help out the KU/KSU up North.  Just not sure how you would divide the divisions..  Tulane would finally open up lousiana from it's LSU deathlock

 

[El Squared 1802]

Just to add to the non-factual discussion: add PIG and CU.

However, in a weak PAC 12, CU may feel they have a “chance” to become relevant. Briefly they were in Big 12, but the landscape looks harder now. Agree also that many/most CU fans identify w/ Left Coastness.

[DFW Horn 6123]

56 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

add arkansas and tulane, the conference would be set... or add arkansas and kick out baylor.  However I believe that if the big 12 went back to two divisions, it would help out the KU/KSU up North.  Just not sure how you would divide the divisions..  Tulane would finally open up lousiana from it's LSU deathlock

 

Does Louisiana still lead the nation in the number of blue-chip HS players per capita?

I don't follow recruiting that closely.

[Machinator 32099]

1 minute ago, DFW Horn said:

Does Louisiana still lead the nation in the number of blue-chip HS players per capita?

I don't follow recruiting that closely.

From 2017

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2017/1/30/14375298/college-football-recruiting-state-rankings-population-capita

[Thiefery 4995]

Tom has been trying to set up satellite camps in LA for the past couple years only for LSU to pressure the smaller schools to not let UT host one on their campus.

[DFW Horn 6123]

2 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

Tom has been trying to set up satellite camps in LA for the past couple years only for LSU to pressure the smaller schools to not let UT host one on their campus.

Why would Tulane let LSU bully them anyway?

As a private school, they aren't beholden to the LA state legislature. Or at least they shouldn't be as dependent on state funding. That's some dirty, coonass politicking there.

[notre dame joe 187]

On 8/21/2019 at 11:19 PM, camel at sea said:

Yes.  The board owner over there punted a paid poster months ago.  He said with quite a bit of certainty that it was a paid poster so that's not coming from me as an opinion.  She/he was operating primarily under the handle "SoonerPride" and pretending to be an OU fan, but she/he had set up multiple fake accounts on that board,  for use in that thread, pretending to be from multiple different fanbases, all of which were made to echo an OU to B1G  pov.  One of the guys who still posts on that thread multiple times daily tried to pass off the paid poster as an OU fan multiple times.  I found the twitter account of the guy who still posts there daily and "coincidentally" one of his only followers on twitter is that same OU-to-B1G paid poster.  There are a few other regular posters in that thread who operate pretty much the same way.  I have some theories about how the whole thing works but you start sounding like Joe McCarthy at some point expounding on it.  

The funny thing to me is that people have such a hard time believing that a university/conference/TV Network wouldn't devote a few thousand dollars per month to steer the conversation on twitter and in online forums around the country.  Nobody has a hard time believing that this happens in politics.  Or with products and services.  When you're talking about multi-billion dollar TV contracts, where fan opinion matters, it just makes sense that entities with deep pockets would do that.

 

 

Next Question: is a certain poster planted to make WVU Neers look bad?

[LTbear 4168]

3 hours ago, El Squared said:

Just to add to the non-factual discussion: add PIG and CU.

However, in a weak PAC 12, CU may feel they have a “chance” to become relevant. Briefly they were in Big 12, but the landscape looks harder now. Agree also that many/most CU fans identify w/ Left Coastness.

The last bit is the important bit. CU has a huge alumni base out west. The move was for alumni.

If CU ever did leave the PAC (say if the PAC fell apart), I think odds are they'd make a case for the B1G.

For the Big XII I'd take Arky and anyone. Arky belongs here. Pair 'em with Cincy for all I care; that's not a bad get.

[Al_4_ISU 12458]

Cincy has pretty decent optics other than being a city school.  I think Nippert Stadium would be a pretty cool place to watch a game.

[Murfdogg21 4412]

It would be amazing to get CU and Arky back. So after the dust settled, we would have traded aggy, Nebraska, and Mizzou for Arky, TCU, and WV? Losing aggy was definition of addition by subtraction!

[angelos's frog 83]

1 hour ago, LTbear said:

The last bit is the important bit. CU has a huge alumni base out west. The move was for alumni.

If CU ever did leave the PAC (say if the PAC fell apart), I think odds are they'd make a case for the B1G.

For the Big XII I'd take Arky and anyone. Arky belongs here. Pair 'em with Cincy for all I care; that's not a bad get.

I would take any P5 schools we could talk into switching conferences in order to get to 12 and have real divisions.  Mizzou, Arky, Nebraska, CU, ASU, AZ, FSU, Ga Tech . . . pretty much anybody but Wake. 

[Rabidhorn 121]

I want Texas in the Big 10, fuck OU, Baylor and those other cocksuckers.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think Nippert Stadium would be a pretty cool place to watch a game.

you think wrong

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

20 minutes ago, Rabidhorn said:

I want Texas in the Big 10, fuck OU, Baylor and those other cocksuckers.

We need a geographically coherent conference, so almost any Big 12 permutation is better for us. But just playing with the idea and talking in terms of the attractiveness of the schedule, if we could drag OU along to the Big Ten West, we'd have the following games yearly:

* OU

* Nebraska

* Wisconsin

* Iowa

That, to me, is superior to our best four games in the Big 12, which on a yearly basis are (obviously) OU, and then some permutation of ankle-biters like Tech, TCU, and Baylor and programs like West Virginia (which is about on par with Iowa) or Oklahoma State. There would be plenty of trash on a "Texas in the Big Ten" schedule-- there is no way to sugarcoat playing Illinois and Purdue regularly or Indiana and Rutgers ever-- but we'd also get Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, or Michigan State occasionally (infrequently). 

Basically the pro and con for the Big Ten is higher highs in terms of regular and irregular conference games but zero geographic or historical interest against the teams that make up the dregs of the schedule. It's not really great either way.

[Magus Ossis 2798]

tOSU and Pedo State aren't two schools I find myself wanting to join. We just got free of our own aggy not long ago.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

3 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

tOSU and Pedo State aren't two schools I find myself wanting to join. We just got free of our own aggy not long ago.

you better start @ing CDC to alert him, we have Ohio State on the schedule in a few years

[Machinator 32099]

Playing a home-and-home is different from joining a conference with them.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Playing a home-and-home is different from joining a conference with them.

not if you're pure of heart

[LTbear 4168]

4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Cincy has pretty decent optics other than being a city school.  I think Nippert Stadium would be a pretty cool place to watch a game.

Solid basketball for Cincy, decent football, great recruiting area, geographic bridge to WVU. 

[camel at sea 589]

10 hours ago, LTbear said:

The last bit is the important bit. CU has a huge alumni base out west. The move was for alumni.

If CU ever did leave the PAC (say if the PAC fell apart), I think odds are they'd make a case for the B1G.

For the Big XII I'd take Arky and anyone. Arky belongs here. Pair 'em with Cincy for all I care; that's not a bad get.

https://www.colorado.edu/coloradan/2018/08/25/top-10-home-states-cu-students

It might be interesting to know how big a lead California has on Illinois, Texas, etc.  And it might be interesting to know how big a lead Colorado has over California.  My point is that I've wondered if the "west coast alums" argument for why CU would never leave the PAC is maybe a little bit overblown.  But I haven't seen data indicating either way.  And I do know - excluding the Buffs - that there is a significantly larger Big 12 alum/fan presence on the Front Range than the is a PAC presence there.  

You and I have agreed on Arkansas to the Big 12 for a long time.  It's a perfect fit.  They could compete better with respect to financial resources (3rd in the Big 12 as opposed to maybe 8th or 9th in the SEC.)  Travel is better.  They'd get their #1 historic rival back.  They'd get secondary rivals (OK State, SWC exes, OU) that care more about them than the SEC does.  They'd get better in-roads for recruiting in East Texas again.  They would even add a lot to the Big 12 basketball tournament, with a really strong hoops fanbase not all that far from KC.

[camel at sea 589]

11 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

Next Question: is a certain poster planted to make WVU Neers look bad?

I've suspected that for a while.  But I'd guess the point is making the Big 12 look bad moreso than WVU specifically.  

['stache 21805]

Adding Arky would be contingent on removing Baylor so Arky can be in the south to play Texas, ou, and OSU every year. They won’t move to play the Kansas schools annually.

[LTbear 4168]

8 hours ago, camel at sea said:

I've suspected that for a while.  But I'd guess the point is making the Big 12 look bad moreso than WVU specifically.  

For to be the case. That account is just too crazy/ stubborn/ delusional to be real.

[LTbear 4168]

9 hours ago, camel at sea said:

https://www.colorado.edu/coloradan/2018/08/25/top-10-home-states-cu-students

It might be interesting to know how big a lead California has on Illinois, Texas, etc.  And it might be interesting to know how big a lead Colorado has over California.  My point is that I've wondered if the "west coast alums" argument for why CU would never leave the PAC is maybe a little bit overblown.  But I haven't seen data indicating either way.  And I do know - excluding the Buffs - that there is a significantly larger Big 12 alum/fan presence on the Front Range than the is a PAC presence there.  

You and I have agreed on Arkansas to the Big 12 for a long time.  It's a perfect fit.  They could compete better with respect to financial resources (3rd in the Big 12 as opposed to maybe 8th or 9th in the SEC.)  Travel is better.  They'd get their #1 historic rival back.  They'd get secondary rivals (OK State, SWC exes, OU) that care more about them than the SEC does.  They'd get better in-roads for recruiting in East Texas again.  They would even add a lot to the Big 12 basketball tournament, with a really strong hoops fanbase not all that far from KC.

Certainly an imperfect metric, but if you look up current student demographics at CU you'll see that 1 in 10 students comes from California, which is nearly double the next two states (Illinois and Texas) combined. And the student enrollment profile has been that way or even more heavily stocked with Californians for as long as I can remember. (Washington and Arizona are also high on the list).

[Hurtlocker 2212]

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

Adding Arky would be contingent on removing Baylor so Arky can be in the south to play Texas, ou, and OSU every year. They won’t move to play the Kansas schools annually.

I'd be shocked if the B12 would do north/south again.   One of the reasons they stay at 10 is because the northern schools get two games in Texas every year for recruiting.    

[LTbear 4168]

18 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

I'd be shocked if the B12 would do north/south again.   One of the reasons they stay at 10 is because the northern schools get two games in Texas every year for recruiting.    

I do really enjoy the current Big XII with round robin play and the double round robin in basketball. 

[Thiefery 4995]

21 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

I'd be shocked if the B12 would do north/south again.   One of the reasons they stay at 10 is because the northern schools get two games in Texas every year for recruiting.    

East/West divisions?

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 minutes ago, LTbear said:

I do really enjoy the current Big XII with round robin play and the double round robin in basketball. 

Now imagine if we were able to delete Baylor and West Virginia, and replace them with Nebraska and Arkansas. Delete the conference championship game. That's the best Big 12 I can come up with that's at least a little bit reasonable (i.e., poaching Arkansas which is a total longshot instead of LSU which is basically impossible, or adding Notre Dame, or poaching both the Arizona schools from the Pac, or going to 14 or 16). 

['stache 21805]

19 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Now imagine if we were able to delete Baylor and West Virginia, and replace them with Nebraska and Arkansas. Delete the conference championship game. That's the best Big 12 I can come up with that's at least a little bit reasonable (i.e., poaching Arkansas which is a total longshot instead of LSU which is basically impossible, or adding Notre Dame, or poaching both the Arizona schools from the Pac, or going to 14 or 16). 

This would make for a very cool 10 team conference.

[Thiefery 4995]

41 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Now imagine if we were able to delete Baylor and West Virginia, and replace them with Nebraska and Arkansas. Delete the conference championship game. That's the best Big 12 I can come up with that's at least a little bit reasonable (i.e., poaching Arkansas which is a total longshot instead of LSU which is basically impossible, or adding Notre Dame, or poaching both the Arizona schools from the Pac, or going to 14 or 16). 

They would never delete the the CCG, too much money and so far has paid off for the winner (ouSucks) getting into the CFP

[Al_4_ISU 12458]

44 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Now imagine if we were able to delete Baylor and West Virginia, and replace them with Nebraska and Arkansas. Delete the conference championship game. That's the best Big 12 I can come up with that's at least a little bit reasonable (i.e., poaching Arkansas which is a total longshot instead of LSU which is basically impossible, or adding Notre Dame, or poaching both the Arizona schools from the Pac, or going to 14 or 16). 

You get rid of the scum and geographically align.  That would be a lot of fun.  Basically trade Pig with WVU to the SEC.  If the Big 10 could get Notre Dame to replace Nebraska, I'd think that rational folks at all the institutions involved could see opportunity in this.

[TrashMaster G 17551]

48 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Now imagine if we were able to delete Baylor and West Virginia, and replace them with Nebraska and Arkansas. Delete the conference championship game. That's the best Big 12 I can come up with that's at least a little bit reasonable (i.e., poaching Arkansas which is a total longshot instead of LSU which is basically impossible, or adding Notre Dame, or poaching both the Arizona schools from the Pac, or going to 14 or 16). 

I'd be happy to just delete Baylor and add Arkansas.  And get rid of the CCG.  So f'n stupid.

[Thiefery 4995]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

You get rid of the scum and geographically align.  That would be a lot of fun.  Basically trade Pig with WVU to the SEC.  If the Big 10 could get Notre Dame to replace Nebraska, I'd think that rational folks at all the institutions involved could see opportunity in this.

Notre Dame could fit right in with their NBC deal, however they seem to be more of a Big 10/ACC fit with it's huge Alumni base in the midwest and East coast.  And tbh, they have a kush deal with the ACC.  Don't see the Big 12 (Texas,ou) bending the knee for them the way the ACC did.

[LTbear 4168]

48 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Now imagine if we were able to delete Baylor and West Virginia, and replace them with Nebraska and Arkansas. Delete the conference championship game. That's the best Big 12 I can come up with that's at least a little bit reasonable (i.e., poaching Arkansas which is a total longshot instead of LSU which is basically impossible, or adding Notre Dame, or poaching both the Arizona schools from the Pac, or going to 14 or 16). 

Meh, I'd rather Baylor stay Arky would be a tremendous add culturally. Obviously I think getting Nebraska and Arky is the dream scenario, but I don't see it ever happening. Arkansas maybe a bit more likely (which is to say, a 0.1% chance). Arkansas has struggled for a quarter century, whereas Nebby still has far too much pride to come back. 

WVU is a weird geographic fit but I actually like them being here. Culturally they fit really well, and though Morgantown is not the easiest to get to, it's a great college town and great game atmosphere.

[Al_4_ISU 12458]

Just now, Thiefery said:

Notre Dame could fit right in with their NBC deal, however they seem to be more of a Big 10/ACC fit with it's huge Alumni base in the midwest and East coast.  And tbh, they have a kush deal with the ACC.  Don't see the Big 12 (Texas,ou) bending the knee for them the way the ACC did.

Yeah, I'm definitely not advocating Notre Dame to the Big 12.  They fit the Big 10 perfectly, and if they had joined long ago, I don't think the 2010 realignment happens the way it does.

I'm just saying if they were every willing to join the Big 10, I think the Big 10 would be happy to swap them for Nebraska who could come back to the Big 12, and then you would swap WVU for Arky with the SEC, which is also a win-win as the SEC is getting the better program over the last two decades, that is natural extension of their footprint, while we get a program that's a better geographic fit, old rivals of half the league, and a close drive for everyone.

[Al_4_ISU 12458]

3 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Meh, I'd rather Baylor stay Arky would be a tremendous add culturally. Obviously I think getting Nebraska and Arky is the dream scenario, but I don't see it ever happening. Arkansas maybe a bit more likely (which is to say, a 0.1% chance). Arkansas has struggled for a quarter century, whereas Nebby still has far too much pride to come back. 

WVU is a weird geographic fit but I actually like them being here. Culturally they fit really well, and though Morgantown is not the easiest to get to, it's a great college town and great game atmosphere.

I do agree with your point on WVU.  They 100% fit the Big 12 in terms of how they play, fan culture, etc.  The geography is an issue, but it's really the only one.