Realignment talk not going away

[gmr548 16576]

The Big Ten, our academic peers.
And no, we don't, and shouldn't, bring along the sleazebag Sooners.  We can play them out of conference, the same way that worked just fine for 80% of our history with them.  Let them rot in the the dirty SEC or the Pac12+X.

For someone concerned with academics so much, you sure do have a stupid take on this topic.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[atomheartbevo 89644]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:53 AM, Saint Austin said:

Move to a conference where our closest opponent is more than 800 miles away? Hard fucking pass.

This.  Plus, trading one set of sisters of the poor for another set of sisters of the poor does nothing for us.  Especially when the fans would have to travel longer distances to watch opposing teams who have no history with the Horns.   Fuck that.  

We win out, we are in the playoffs. We are not the fucking PAC.   If we feel the need to boost SOS, schedule better OOC.  

[XOVERX 5]

The PAC is not the answer on so many levels for so many reasons.

But the day of reckoning is approaching. We're already seeing recruiting threads for 2022 initiated.

While the GOR doesn't expire until 6-2024, I think it is, the GOR would probably be extended, if it's going to be extended, in 2022 or 23.

I think our friends North of the Red hold the keys. JMO.

[clapclapclap 9000]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

For someone concerned with academics so much, you sure do have a stupid take on this topic.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

Merry Christmas, GeneticallyModifiedRetard548.

Edited December 24, 2019 by clapclapclap
Ask the nurse to turn off your phone sig. Aside from a potato, the best gift the staff can give you this year.

[closetohumping 17438]

1 hour ago, XOVERX said:

The PAC is not the answer on so many levels for so many reasons.

But the day of reckoning is approaching. We're already seeing recruiting threads for 2022 initiated.

While the GOR doesn't expire until 6-2024, I think it is, the GOR would probably be extended, if it's going to be extended, in 2022 or 23.

I think our friends North of the Red hold the keys. JMO.

I know what you're getting at, but we go where we want, we call our own shots.  They made an overture to the PAC and were rebuffed.  a very public overture.  And they are no friends of ours.

[ButtFumble 5172]

4 hours ago, DFW Horn said:

Hating Cougar High and its boosters is what'd make the game more fun than playing unknown, remote, eastern hillbillies. 

no it doesn't they are generally not competitive most years, they have a habit of getting in a good conference and then riding the pine with no investment in their facilities and hiring cheap shitty coaches and their entire wish to be in a conference with Texas is to be a pain in the ass to Texas and to try and be a spoiler to Texas even though they will have 4 other shitty losses that season if they do manage to beat Texas

they are like a shitty aggy with no fan support and no financial support and an even bigger little brother complex and no real desire or plan for real long term success other than successfully being  pain in the ass to Texas

[DFW Horn 6123]

2 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

...they are like a shitty aggy with no fan support and no financial support and an even bigger little brother complex and no real desire or plan for real long term success other than successfully being  pain in the ass to Texas

This seems to be working out okay for TCU

Edited December 24, 2019 by DFW Horn

[kopp0e 1135]

A conference media package split between 3 dominant media carriers could match rates of SEC & B1G...

When reading this article, a thought came to mind: The magic number is really an 18 member conference -
This allows for Oklahoma to keep the most rivals (hence, tradition stays intact) while expanding revenues...
 

Quote

Disney/ABC/ESPN Steals Away SEC Game of the Week ...

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com › disney-abc-espn-steals-away-sec-ga...
3 hours ago - Especially when other leagues may follow the SEC’s lead and pledge exclusive rights to individual networks. The Big Ten could end up all at Fox, the Pac 12 and Big 12 to CBS or NBC? (The ACC was already at ESPN).
 

If 18 XII & PAC schools formed a 9 game conference slate, equals ^at least 162 games...
What is one possible 1st/ 2nd/ 3rd tier network, & conference championship game deals for an expanded (merged) league:

1st tier - 1/3rd of 162 games - 54
[media package split between 27 games on CBS& 27 games on FOX]

2nd tier - 1/3rd of 162 games - 54
[media package split between 27 games on ABC/ ESPN/ ESPN2 & 27 games on FOX/ FS1]

3rd tier - 1/3rd of 162 games - 54
[media package completely operated by Disney (ESPN), with 54 games on PX8N alongside ACCN/ SECN]

^These totals do not count the home scheduled out-of-conference games that would add to the 162 game totals...
*There could be 3 potential bidders for the rights to one PX8 conference championship game, (located in Las Vegas..?)...

[closetohumping 17438]

1 hour ago, DFW Horn said:

This seems to be working out okay for TCU

Those fucks would be rotting in the mwc if it were r for deloss trying to show everyone his junk 

[ButtFumble 5172]

2 hours ago, DFW Horn said:

This seems to be working out okay for TCU

TCU is nothing like UH would be

UH thinks if they get in the Big 12 they can then use the legislature to try and force Texas to stay in the Big 12 and never leave

plus TCU actually cares about being nationally relevant unlike UH that only cares about being a pain in the ass for Texas

[DFW Horn 6123]

13 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

TCU is nothing like UH would be

UH thinks if they get in the Big 12 they can then use the legislature to try and force Texas to stay in the Big 12 and never leave

plus TCU actually cares about being nationally relevant unlike UH that only cares about being a pain in the ass for Texas

Back in the day, Phi Slama Jama was nationally relevant.

I don't know where some of y'all get this "UH only cares about being a pain in the ass for UT" take.

[markstanco 12574]

Phi slama jama was what, 40 years ago?

[tonedeaf 56]

On 12/24/2019 at 12:04 PM, XOVERX said:

The PAC is not the answer on so many levels for so many reasons.

But the day of reckoning is approaching. We're already seeing recruiting threads for 2022 initiated.

While the GOR doesn't expire until 6-2024, I think it is, the GOR would probably be extended, if it's going to be extended, in 2022 or 23.

I think our friends North of the Red hold the keys. JMO.

I would be shocked if OU signed another GOR.  If they leave, all bets are off.  I just hope Texas can separate from baylor.

[atomheartbevo 89644]

6 hours ago, DFW Horn said:

Back in the day, Phi Slama Jama was nationally relevant.

I don't know where some of y'all get this "UH only cares about being a pain in the ass for UT" take.

Yep, I know plenty of UH alumni who want UH to be nationally relevant, although PSJ is kind of an old example.

UH has the resources and location to be more relevant than they are, and they would take a B12 invite so fast it'd make your head spin, but it has nothing to do with UT.  

Their problem is that they are somewhat competing with the Astros, Rockets, and Texans on the athletics scene, and due to Houston's makeup, they have a shitload of alumni from a bunch of other universities that are much more relevant nationality.  

[atomheartbevo 89644]

39 minutes ago, tonedeaf said:

I would be shocked if OU signed another GOR.  If they leave, all bets are off.  I just hope Texas can separate from baylor.

Where are they going to go?  Not PAC or ACC.  The PAC is a fucking dumpster fire of a joke, and the ACC, without Clemson, would be just as bad.  Both are a pain in the ass for OU fans to travel to away games.  

Why would they make their playoff chances harder in the Big 10 or SEC?  Right now, short of losing the B12 championship, they are in with a loss, even a conference loss.  They catch a conference loss in the Big 10 or SEC, and they might not even make the conference championship, which means no CFP.

And, being related to, and knowing quite a few, OU fans and alumni, I know for a fact none of them want to be in a conference where they wouldn't be a top dog.  That rules out the SEC and B10 as well - OU, just like Texas, wouldn't be able to roll into the SEC or B10 and start throwing their weight around.  OU could have went to another conference before the Big 12, but they didn't.

SEC was an easy choice for a school like aggy, who is used to being treated like the mid- or bottom-tier team that they are.    Aggy wasn't a threat to recruiting of any SEC members as well - OU would easily be blocked by Arky, aggy, Missouri, maybe LSU (and it only takes 4) because OU would be a threat to those schools recruiting-wise (And not just them).

The money will be there - Amazon and Apple, one of them will probably make it interesting.  And OU will have a HUGE say in how a GOR plays out, unlike if OU ran off to the SEC or B10.

And we haven't even touched on the whole OU/OSU thing.

[kopp0e 1135]

Here is a ranking of leagues, by which Texas has the most all-time games played, in a move to another league/ or merger:

^* ^* *^ *^ Rated from conference package that retains the most all-time competitive matches, to least...
An "icon vs icon" view of realignment - *[Texas vs teams currently in league with most NCAA FBS titles]
https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2018-08-15/college-football-teams-most-national-championships
#1 The series history of Texas, in expanded/ reconfigured conference record vs league opponents...
#2 The series history of USC-Alabama-Michigan, in expanded/ reconfigured conference record vs league opponents...

SEC                                        
#1 - Texas (4 all-time NCAA football national championships) series records - vs SEC conference alignment:
Alabama - 9  
Arkansas - 78    
Auburn - 8     
Florida - 3     
Georgia - 5 
Kentucky - 1 
LSU - 18
Mississippi State - 4    
Missouri - 24    
Ole Miss - 8    
Oklahoma - 115  
Oklahoma State - 34   
Tennessee - 3     
South Carolina - 1     
Texas A&M - 118    
Texas Tech - 69    
Vanderbilt - 12     
    
Totals: 510

#2 - Alabama (15 all-time NCAA football national championships) series records - vs SEC conference alignment:
Arkansas - 30 
Auburn - 84 
Florida - 40    
Georgia - 69    
Kentucky - 40   
LSU - 84    
Mississippi State - 104
Missouri  - 6    
Oklahoma - 6   
Oklahoma State - 1     
Ole Miss - 67    
South Carolina - 16    
Tennessee - 102    
Texas - 9     
Texas A&M - 12    
Texas Tech - 1     
Vanderbilt - 84    

Totals: 755
-- -- -- -- --

PX8

#1 - Texas (4 all-time NCAA football national championships) series records - vs PX8 conference alignment:
Arizona - 1     
Arizona State - 1     
California - 7    
Colorado - 18   
Iowa State - 17    
Kansas - 19
Kansas State - 20    
Oklahoma - 115
Oklahoma State - 34    
Oregon - 6    
Stanford - 4     
TCU - 90    
Texas Tech - 69    
UCLA - 7     
USC - 7     
Utah - 1     
Washington - 4    

Totals: 420

#2 - USC (9 all-time NCAA football national championships) series records - vs SEC conference alignment:
Arizona - 43    
Arizona State - 36    
California - 107   
Colorado - 14   
Iowa  State - 0
Kansas - 1     
Kansas State - 2   
Oklahoma - 9  
Oklahoma State - 0
Oregon - 62    
Stanford - 100    
TCU - 5     
Texas - 7     
Texas Tech - 3    
UCLA - 89    
Washington - 86   
    
Totals: 564

-- -- -- -- --
B1G
#1 - Texas (4 all-time NCAA football national championships) series records - vs B1G conference alignment:
Illinois - 0
Indiana - 3     
Iowa - 2     
Kansas - 19    
Maryland - 5   
Michigan - 1    
Michigan State - 0
Minnesota - 1   
Nebraska - 14    
Northwestern - 1 
Ohio State - 3    
Oklahoma - 115   
Penn State - 5     
Purdue - 2     
Rutgers - 2     
Texas Tech - 69   
Wisconsin - 1     

Totals: 243

#2 - Michigan (9 all-time NCAA football national championships) series records - vs SEC conference alignment:
Illinois - 96    
Indiana - 68
Iowa - 61   
Kansas - 3    
Maryland - 9    
Michigan State - 112   
Minnesota - 103  
Nebraska - 10    
Northwestern - 75   
Ohio State - 116    
Oklahoma - 1     
Penn State - 23  
Purdue - 59  
Rutgers - 6     
Texas - 1     
Texas Tech - 3 
Wisconsin - 68    
    
Totals: 814

-- -- -- -- --

[XOVERX 5]

4 hours ago, tonedeaf said:

I would be shocked if OU signed another GOR.  If they leave, all bets are off.  I just hope Texas can separate from baylor.

We are of like mind re OU.

The prize if OU wanders is Texas. OU would simply be the excuse for a big dog conference to snare the big dog school - Texas.

So, which conference wants Texas the most?

The B1G? The SEC? Some other conference?

We know the SEC would take OU, no questions asked, right?

Would the B1G take OU? Would the B1G take OU if taking OU meant Texas followed?

Would Texas stay B12 if OU left? Will OU opt out of the B12 GOR at all come renewal time?

Would Texas go SEC if OU went SEC because of B1G dalliance?

The answers to these questions arise in the relatively near future.

Oklahoma is the catalyst and Texas is the prey, lol.

Edited December 26, 2019 by XOVERX

[XOVERX 5]

3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Where are they going to go?  Not PAC or ACC.  The PAC is a fucking dumpster fire of a joke, and the ACC, without Clemson, would be just as bad.  Both are a pain in the ass for OU fans to travel to away games.  

Why would they make their playoff chances harder in the Big 10 or SEC?  Right now, short of losing the B12 championship, they are in with a loss, even a conference loss.  They catch a conference loss in the Big 10 or SEC, and they might not even make the conference championship, which means no CFP.

And, being related to, and knowing quite a few, OU fans and alumni, I know for a fact none of them want to be in a conference where they wouldn't be a top dog.  That rules out the SEC and B10 as well - OU, just like Texas, wouldn't be able to roll into the SEC or B10 and start throwing their weight around.  OU could have went to another conference before the Big 12, but they didn't.

SEC was an easy choice for a school like aggy, who is used to being treated like the mid- or bottom-tier team that they are.    Aggy wasn't a threat to recruiting of any SEC members as well - OU would easily be blocked by Arky, aggy, Missouri, maybe LSU (and it only takes 4) because OU would be a threat to those schools recruiting-wise (And not just them).

The money will be there - Amazon and Apple, one of them will probably make it interesting.  And OU will have a HUGE say in how a GOR plays out, unlike if OU ran off to the SEC or B10.

And we haven't even touched on the whole OU/OSU thing.

I think if Oklahoma perceives they can win more NCs in the B12, then that would be the reason they would renew the B12 GOR.

But Oklahoma also needs the money the SEC or the B1G would generate for them.

Money (leave)? Or playoffs (stay put)?

Consider an expanded playoff where coming in second, or even third, in a conference doesn't necessarily preclude the playoffs.

Or consider the idea of a larger B1G and/or SEC with both a finals championship game, but also a semi-final championship game.

With a semi-final game integrated into a larger playoff scheme, the ability of all conference schools to rate the playoff scheme expands dramatically.

A 4-school playoff won't be around forever, IMO.

If this thinking is correct, then a school like OU takes the quick money of the B1G or SEC and waits for the expanded playoff scheme, whatever scheme that may be.

OU gone.

[atomheartbevo 89644]

32 minutes ago, XOVERX said:

I think if Oklahoma perceives they can win more NCs in the B12, then that would be the reason they would renew the B12 GOR.

Is Tom Herman going to magically get his shit together and start contending for the B12 championship?  Is the PAC going to magically get their shit together and start consistently producing an undefeated champ?  Signs say no, so winning the B12, even with a loss, is an easy path to the playoffs.

Stoops won 10 Big 12 titles, and many of those titles would have put the meth heads in the playoffs (given the state of the ACC and PAC).

32 minutes ago, XOVERX said:

But Oklahoma also needs the money the SEC or the B1G would generate for them.

Money (leave)? Or playoffs (stay put)?

And this is where you have to take a holistic approach to things.  Some geographical rivalries would disappear (and I'm not sure Nebraska would go out of their way to be on OU's calendar every year), which would lessen fan enthusiasm, both for home games, and for travel.  The chances of OU adding a loss or two every season goes up, and they could find themselves out of running for the 4-team playoffs more often than not.  That's not good for revenue the university is pulling in from advertising, game attendance, etc., not to mention playoff money they would lose out on (more on that in a moment).  

I think the SEC is a non-starter though - OU would have to have 11 SEC teams to vote for them.  Adding OU does doesn't expand their footprint into a massive state dripping with football talent like aggy did.  It's going to hurt the locals (Missouri, Arky, aggy) and that's three teams right there that should vote no - aggy was not a threat to Missouri, Arky, and LSU, unlike OU.  I'm not even sure LSU wants OU in the mix, because a hypothetical situation where they are running into OU and Bama year in and year out is not necessarily good for them.  Hell, Bama might not be keen on that either - Bama would have Auburn, LSU, and OU to contend with, plus a CCG game.  Hell, what does OU offer the SEC West in general?  Another potential loss for several of those teams, and loss of the SEC brand as a factor in recruiting against OU in places like Texas.

32 minutes ago, XOVERX said:

Consider an expanded playoff where coming in second, or even third, in a conference doesn't necessarily preclude the playoffs.

At this point, there would be absolutely no reason for OU to leave the B12, since they are almost automatically going to be in the playoffs, given the last 15 years.  Those fucking inbreds know how to reload and win, while we keep having to rebuild every other year.   That would mean a big boost in revenue for them.   More on that in a moment.

32 minutes ago, XOVERX said:

Or consider the idea of a larger B1G and/or SEC with both a finals championship game, but also a semi-final championship game.

I don't see this scenario playing out - schools like Ohio State, LSU, and Bama are not going to want an additional stumbling block to a 4-team playoff.

8-team playoffs pretty much guarantee the stability of the P5s, since all P5 champs probably get an automatic bid, and 2-losses mean much, much less.

Look at our hypothetical 8-team playoff for this year, judging by the official CFP rankings:

1. Louisiana State University  13-0
2. Ohio State University  13-0
3. Clemson University  13-0
4. University of Oklahoma  12-1
5. University of Georgia  11-2
6. University of Oregon  11-2
7. Baylor University   11-2
8. University of Wisconsin  10-3

With an 8-team playoff, there is little reason for a top-tier P5 team to leave their current conference, not when you get teams like 2-loss Georgia and Baylor, and 3-loss Wisconsin getting in.  Those three teams show you could lose a regular-season game (or two) and your conference championship and still get in.  Or in the case of Oregon, lose 2-3 regular season games and win your CCG and you're in.

And as for the best non-P5 - they aren't going to jump Notre Dame (and how would they treat them anyways) and Memphis way up the list 7-9 spots.  They'll tell them to join a real conference.

[atomheartbevo 89644]

Look at OU's last 20 years, in a hypothetical 8-team playoff situation.

• 13 years as outright conference champs 
• 2001 - Out - #10 OU would not have jumped #9 Texas or #4 Nebraska for a second B12 spot (after #3 Colorado), especially after ending the season with a loss to 4-7 Okie State.
• 2003 - In - #1 and undefeated headed into B12 Championship game, lost to #13 KSU, but only dropped to #3.
• 2005, 2009, 2014 -  Out - 4-5 loss seasons
• 2011 - Out - 3 losses, not conferences champs - dropped 2 out of 3 last regular season games and well out of top 10 at that point
• 2013 - Toss-Up Baylor was conference champ, but both had identical W/L (10-2) and OU closed out the season beating #6 Okie State, so possibly in.

So with a hypothetical 8-team playoff situation over the last 20 years, OU would have automatically been in 14 times due to conference championship and 2003, with a possible 15th appearance in 2013.

Would they have been outright conference champs 13 times in the SEC or Big 10 over the last 20 years?  Signs point to "No".

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by atomheartbevo

[closetohumping 17438]

3 hours ago, XOVERX said:

We are of like mind re OU.

The prize if OU wanders is Texas. OU would simply be the excuse for a big dog conference to snare the big dog school - Texas.

So, which conference wants Texas the most?

The B1G? The SEC? Some other conference?

We know the SEC would take OU, no questions asked, right?

Would the B1G take OU? Would the B1G take OU if taking OU meant Texas followed?

Would Texas stay B12 if OU left? Will OU opt out of the B12 GOR at all come renewal time?

Would Texas go SEC if OU went SEC because of B1G dalliance?

The answers to these questions arise in the relatively near future.

Oklahoma is the catalyst and Texas is the prey, lol.

I don’t think any conference takes ou unless they know what Texas is doing

[BabaYaga 15290]

I could see the SEC taking OU just for bragging rights of taking another top-rated program.  Further, the SEC would tell the middle/lower tier schools to rightly fuck off as well (MO, A&M, AR, etc).  They aren't blocking a damn thing.  

Beyond Texas being a concern, is there any merit into OSU being tied to OU?  I remember reading about their ability to block a conference departure that doesn't include both programs?  Is that just forum gossip?

[atomheartbevo 89644]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I could see the SEC taking OU just for bragging rights of taking another top-rated program.  Further, the SEC would tell the middle/lower tier schools to rightly fuck off as well (MO, A&M, AR, etc).  They aren't blocking a damn thing.  

The SEC leadership can tell those schools to fuck off, but if four vote to block, OU wouldn’t get in.  

Aggy was a unanimous vote, because everybody benefitted from adding Texas to the footprint, without adding a tough program.  

[BabaYaga 15290]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The SEC leadership can tell those schools to fuck off, but if four vote to block, OU wouldn’t get in.  

Aggy was a unanimous vote, because everybody benefitted from adding Texas to the footprint, without adding a tough program.  

On paper, absolutely - I just wonder how the top-tier SEC cabal might work their leverage behind closed doors to land a big fish such as OU.  I can't see AR or MO telling AL, GA, LSU, and Auburn (for example) what is, or is not going to happen.  They'd get laughed out of the room.  What's MO going to do, threaten to leave again? 

Or Texas?  If everyone else wants the program in, and aggy puffs up, I can't see them with any real leverage?

['stache 21802]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I could see the SEC taking OU just for bragging rights of taking another top-rated program.  Further, the SEC would tell the middle/lower tier schools to rightly fuck off as well (MO, A&M, AR, etc).  They aren't blocking a damn thing.  

Beyond Texas being a concern, is there any merit into OSU being tied to OU?  I remember reading about their ability to block a conference departure that doesn't include both programs?  Is that just forum gossip?

Nothing legal that I'm aware of that would prevent a split, but unlike aggy, our administration gets along well with OU's and is reciprocated. They understand that it's good for the schools to be together. I think the only way OU would leave without us would be if the Big 12 was definitely going to fall apart and other conferences rejected OU's demand that OSU go too. I don't think the legislature would have anything to do with it, and most of them are sooner shitbags anyway who wouldn't do a damn thing to help OSU. It would be the OU administration that would likely try as hard as possible to keep us together. Especially now that Boren is gone and his "We're as smrt as big 10" idealism left with him.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

I could see the SEC taking OU just for bragging rights

that's not how this works

Look at the programs the SEC has added in its expansions the past thirty or so years: South Carolina, Arkansas, A&M, Missouri. New TV markets, new recruiting footprint, none of them programs that could or have ever threatened the supremacy of the SEC's top programs. They could have added Florida State or Miami at their peaks and chose not to, because they were already in Florida and didn't want to have to deal with cannibalizing re: conference losses. 

['stache 21802]

8 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

that's not how this works

Look at the programs the SEC has added in its expansions the past thirty or so years: South Carolina, Arkansas, A&M, Missouri. New TV markets, new recruiting footprint, none of them programs that could or have ever threatened the supremacy of the SEC's top programs. They could have added Florida State or Miami at their peaks and chose not to, because they were already in Florida and didn't want to have to deal with cannibalizing re: conference losses. 

People are starting to understand that SEC has 2-3 elite teams every year and a bunch of garbage thereafter. With all the weakness they've added over the years, they may need another blueblood to continue their perception of dominance, especially if they end up with 16 teams, there will be room for another good program.

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

If Texas or Oklahoma joins another conference, they become Nebraska.  It's pretty simple.  Maybe not that bad, but they will absolutely be something less.

No other Big 12 school is in a position to really go out and join one of the more well paid leagues.  KU fans like to think they are, but only Texas and OU have the cache to name their destination and go there.

Anyone who looks at the Pac 12 and thinks they're better off there is a complete and utter moron.  That conference is a fucking mess, and is lesser than the Big 12 in every measure other than "how desirable is this city for a vacation?".

Edited December 26, 2019 by Al_4_ISU

[BabaYaga 15290]

4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

People are starting to understand that SEC has 2-3 elite teams every year and a bunch of garbage thereafter. With all the weakness they've added over the years, they may need another blueblood to continue their perception of dominance, especially if they end up with 16 teams, there will be room for another good program.

This is more in line with where my head is at.  While they might not want to do it, the shifting landscape may necessitate it.  As more and more cut the cord, TV and network deals will mean less and less.  Perception becomes key.  

[BabaYaga 15290]

4 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

If Texas or Oklahoma joins another conference, they become Nebraska.  It's pretty simple.  Maybe not that bad, but they will absolutely be something less.

No other Big 12 school is in a position to really go out and join one of the more well paid leagues.  KU fans like to think they are, but only Texas and OU have the cache to name their destination and go there.

Anyone who looks at the Pac 12 and thinks they're better off there is a complete and utter moron.  That conference is a fucking mess, and is lesser than the Big 12 in every measure other than "how desirable is this city for a vacation?".

It comes down to the access to talent.  OU, 100% - as with NU, very little of their talent is home grown.  They somehow get locked out of the state, it's bad news for them and they know it.  The ags have shown that in-state talent will stay home.  Texas in the Big12 or SEC gives them this as long as they remain competitive.  

Either way I think we're a ways off from all this.  Mega-conferences (16 teams) may be the catalyst that starts things falling.  Until then, I see little meaningful change happening.  

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It comes down to the access to talent.  OU, 100% - as with NU, very little of their talent is home grown.  They somehow get locked out of the state, it's bad news for them and they know it.  The ags have shown that in-state talent will stay home.  Texas in the Big12 or SEC gives them this as long as they remain competitive.  

Either way I think we're a ways off from all this.  Mega-conferences (16 teams) may be the catalyst that starts things falling.  Until then, I see little meaningful change happening.  

I don't think much happens either.  I don't think anyone, other than schools who got out of currently non-existant leagues, or made the leap up to P5 is really any better off.  There are OU fans that like to bitch, but any sane one of them knows they haven't gone to 4/5ths of the playoffs in the SEC.  Mega conferences are completely pointless, and I think that ship has sailed.

Some kind of group collective bargaining for TV rights among the current power schools seems more likely than another road of wild west, cloak and dagger 2010 style realignment shit.

Agreed that OU would be worse off than Texas due to in-state talent.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

28 minutes ago, 'stache said:

People are starting to understand that SEC has 2-3 elite teams every year and a bunch of garbage thereafter. With all the weakness they've added over the years, they may need another blueblood to continue their perception of dominance, especially if they end up with 16 teams, there will be room for another good program.

ESPN is about to bump every school in the SEC by $25m/yr in TV money, for doing nothing. Nothing is changing that would make the SEC rethink what they're doing. "People" aren't "starting to understand" anything that impacts the SEC in a negative way. 

 

[DeadArmadillo 907]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Nothing legal that I'm aware of that would prevent a split, but unlike aggy, our administration gets along well with OU's and is reciprocated. They understand that it's good for the schools to be together. I think the only way OU would leave without us would be if the Big 12 was definitely going to fall apart and other conferences rejected OU's demand that OSU go too. I don't think the legislature would have anything to do with it, and most of them are sooner shitbags anyway who wouldn't do a damn thing to help OSU. It would be the OU administration that would likely try as hard as possible to keep us together. Especially now that Boren is gone and his "We're as smrt as big 10" idealism left with him.

I've always understood that the leadership at OU wants to be in the same conference with OSU for no other reason than they just like it.  Nearby rival with a very solid overall athletic department.  For those that think the only value in the Big 12 are OU and UT, you may want to check yourselves.  There's a lot of value for Tech, OSU, ISU, WVU, and even the Kansas schools.  Big public schools with a strong following.  Eight of the programs in the Big 12 are top 40 athletic departments and unless you want to pare the top division down to 25 or 30 schools, you want those type of programs in your league.   

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

3 hours ago, DeadArmadillo said:

I've always understood that the leadership at OU wants to be in the same conference with OSU for no other reason than they just like it. 

sure, it's a nice fallback to have a 2nd rival that you beat 90% of the time

and Oklahoma State fans don't seem like they're capable of being as obnoxious as A&M's fans were/are

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

5 hours ago, 'stache said:

Nothing legal that I'm aware of that would prevent a split, but unlike aggy, our administration gets along well with OU's and is reciprocated. They understand that it's good for the schools to be together. I think the only way OU would leave without us would be if the Big 12 was definitely going to fall apart and other conferences rejected OU's demand that OSU go too. I don't think the legislature would have anything to do with it, and most of them are sooner shitbags anyway who wouldn't do a damn thing to help OSU. It would be the OU administration that would likely try as hard as possible to keep us together. Especially now that Boren is gone and his "We're as smrt as big 10" idealism left with him.

At one point a few years ago, OSU had as many in the state legislature as OU did.  Don't know if that's still the case but it's close.  Also, to your point, the leadership of the two schools is very close.  During the last round of musical chairs, OU refused to even listen to offers that didn't include OSU.  They're a package deal and everyone knows that.

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

If Texas or Oklahoma joins another conference, they become Nebraska.  It's pretty simple.  Maybe not that bad, but they will absolutely be something less.

No other Big 12 school is in a position to really go out and join one of the more well paid leagues.  KU fans like to think they are, but only Texas and OU have the cache to name their destination and go there.

Anyone who looks at the Pac 12 and thinks they're better off there is a complete and utter moron.  That conference is a fucking mess, and is lesser than the Big 12 in every measure other than "how desirable is this city for a vacation?".

Slow your roll there.  If Texas and Oklahoma join another conference, they are the new conference.  OU is smart enough to know the money and the talent are in the state of Texas.  They're not going to be moronic like Nebraska.  

As for the Pac, Texas and OU going there is a huge win.  They get major media exposure on the west coast while keeping their near monopoly in Texas.  (Aggy is a third tier player.)  Each school would be able to recruit more football and basketball out of California.

[closetohumping 17438]

4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I don't think much happens either.  I don't think anyone, other than schools who got out of currently non-existant leagues, or made the leap up to P5 is really any better off.  There are OU fans that like to bitch, but any sane one of them knows they haven't gone to 4/5ths of the playoffs in the SEC.  Mega conferences are completely pointless, and I think that ship has sailed.

Some kind of group collective bargaining for TV rights among the current power schools seems more likely than another road of wild west, cloak and dagger 2010 style realignment shit.

Agreed that OU would be worse off than Texas due to in-state talent.

Nm

Edited December 27, 2019 by closetohumping
Dp

[closetohumping 17438]

4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

If Texas or Oklahoma joins another conference, they become Nebraska.  It's pretty simple.  Maybe not that bad, but they will absolutely be something less.

No other Big 12 school is in a position to really go out and join one of the more well paid leagues.  KU fans like to think they are, but only Texas and OU have the cache to name their destination and go there.

Anyone who looks at the Pac 12 and thinks they're better off there is a complete and utter moron.  That conference is a fucking mess, and is lesser than the Big 12 in every measure other than "how desirable is this city for a vacation?".

Say what?   We are in one of the top 3 ha football states.  We will be fine wherever we go.  Your worry is you’ll be left without a seat on the gravy train.  You, KSU, baylor, tcu, etc.   you’re all in a power 5 because we decided to stay.  

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

7 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Say what?   We are in one of the top 3 ha football states.  We will be fine wherever we go.  Your worry is you’ll be left without a seat on the gravy train.  You, KSU, baylor, tcu, etc.   you’re all in a power 5 because we decided to stay.  

No shit.

That still doesn't change the reality that you're better off controlling your own league than riding coat tails and playing a bunch of schools as shitty as those you mentioned that are even farther away.

[closetohumping 17438]

4 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

No shit.

That still doesn't change the reality that you're better off controlling your own league than riding coat tails and playing a bunch of schools as shitty as those you mentioned that are even farther away.

Again your school is riding coat tails.  We bring something to the table wherever we go.  

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

Again your school is riding coat tails.  We bring something to the table wherever we go.  

Again, no shit.

It will be hilarious to open this board if you guys change leagues and watch everyone bitch and complain about 11PM kicks in Corvallis.

Will Texas be fine? Of course. Is Iowa State at risk in a major realignment? Of course. None of that changes the high likelihood that Texas will be worse off by blowing up the Big 12 in order to play a bunch of schools 1500 miles away that don’t care about football.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

9 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

watch everyone bitch and complain about 11PM kicks in Corvallis.

That specifically is never going to happen.

[Pancho 44757]

29 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

 

Again, no shit.

It will be hilarious to open this board if you guys change leagues and watch everyone bitch and complain about 11PM kicks in Corvallis.

Will Texas be fine? Of course. Is Iowa State at risk in a major realignment? Of course. None of that changes the high likelihood that Texas will be worse off by blowing up the Big 12 in order to play a bunch of schools 1500 miles away that don’t care about football.

 

We aren’t going to the PAC 12 anyway 

[kopp0e 1135]

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Slow your roll there.  If Texas and Oklahoma join another conference, they are the new conference.  OU is smart enough to know the money and the talent are in the state of Texas.  They're not going to be moronic like Nebraska.  

As for the Pac, Texas and OU going there is a huge win.  They get major media exposure on the west coast while keeping their near monopoly in Texas.  (Aggy is a third tier player.)  Each school would be able to recruit more football and basketball out of California.

I would add, that a new *SWC-ish would be filled with most teams with BCS & CFP history (ironic):

In 20 seasons, (since 1998) the proposed PX6 stands strong, vs other BCS/ CFP participants per league: [legend - {BCS national title appearance-CFP invite}/ (BCS New Years' Day invite)]...

B1G -
Ohio State {BCS/ CFP} - 12 invites
Nebraska {BCS} - 2 invites
Michigan State {CFP} - 1 invite
Wisconsin (BCS) - 5 invites
Michigan (BCS) - 5 invites
Purdue (BCS) - 1 invite
Illinois (BCS) - 2 invites
Maryland (BCS) - 1 invite
Iowa (BCS) - 2 invites
Penn State (BCS) - 2 invites
B1G - * 10 different schools totaling 33 invites since 1998...

SEC -
Alabama {BCS/ CFP} - 11 invites
LSU {BCS} - 5 invites
Florida {BCS} - 7 invites
Auburn {BCS} - 3 invites
Tennessee {BCS} - 2 invites
Georgia {CFP} - 4 invites
Texas A&M (BCS) - 1 invite
Arkansas (BCS) - 1 invite
SEC - * 8 different schools totaling 34 invites since 1998...

ACC -
Florida State {BCS} - 9 invites
Miami {BCS} - 4 invites
Notre Dame {BCS/ CFP} - 5 invites
Virginia Tech {BCS} - 6 invites
Clemson {CFP} - 4 invites
West Virginia (BCS) - 3 invites
Louisville (BCS) - 2 invites
Georgia Tech (BCS) - 1 invite
Pittsburgh (BCS) -1 invite
Syracuse (BCS) - 1 invite
Wake Forest (BCS) - 1 invite
ACC - * 11 different schools totaling ~37 invites since 1998...

PX6 -
Oklahoma {BCS/ CFP} - 12 invites
Texas {BCS} - 4 invites
USC {BCS} - 7 invites
Oregon {BCS/ CFP} - 6 invites
Washington {CFP} - 1 invite
Stanford (BCS) - 5 invites
Utah (BCS) - 2 invites
TCU (BCS) - 2 invites
Kansas (BCS) - 1 invite
Oklahoma State (BCS) - 1 invite
Colorado (BCS) - 1 invite
UCLA (BCS) - 1 invite
PX6 - * 12 different schools totaling ^43 invites since 1998...

This shows strength in athletics that can remain, while tied to a region with population growth (think future student-athletes)...
 

[IDIOTsavant 8483]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

 

Again, no shit.

It will be hilarious to open this board if you guys change leagues and watch everyone bitch and complain about 11PM kicks in Corvallis.

Will Texas be fine? Of course. Is Iowa State at risk in a major realignment? Of course. None of that changes the high likelihood that Texas will be worse off by blowing up the Big 12 in order to play a bunch of schools 1500 miles away that don’t care about football.

 

Al, I hate to say it, but this one is on you. When you voluntarily walk into an idiotic conversation, you can't be surprised when you're surrounded by idiots. 

[closetohumping 17438]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

 

Again, no shit.

It will be hilarious to open this board if you guys change leagues and watch everyone bitch and complain about 11PM kicks in Corvallis.

Will Texas be fine? Of course. Is Iowa State at risk in a major realignment? Of course. None of that changes the high likelihood that Texas will be worse off by blowing up the Big 12 in order to play a bunch of schools 1500 miles away that don’t care about football.

 

I live in Seattle so that works for me.  But that’s gonna happe. Once a year at best. Pac isn’t my first choice. I’d pick the b1g or sec

[TKthunder2 4988]

6 hours ago, DeadArmadillo said:

For those that think the only value in the Big 12 are OU and UT, you may want to check yourselves.  There's a lot of value for Tech, OSU, ISU, WVU, and even the Kansas schools.  Big public schools with a strong following.

Umm...no there is not a lot of value (when compared to who could be in our conference) nor a strong following.  Let’s nip this in the bud right now, because I get so tired of hearing this from the non UT/OU Big 12 schools.

This was written in November of 2018 and it held up even after the end of the season. https://www.barkingcarnival.com/2018/11/14/18095134/tv-ratings-the-canary-in-the-big-12-coal-mine

Here are the number for this year. https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/ (note: I did this by hand on an iPad so I might have missed or mistyped something, if I did let me know and I’ll fix it)

Big 12 CCG Oklahoma v Baylor 8.7m

LSU v Texas 8.63m

Oklahoma v Texas 7.25m

Oklahoma v Baylor 6.79m

Oklahoma v Okie St 5.82m

UH v Oklahoma 5.44m

Oklahoma v K State 4.21m

Okie St v Texas 3.64m

Iowa St v Oklahoma 3.17m

Texas v West Virginia 3.16m

TCU v Oklahoma 3.15m

Oklahoma v Kansas 2.98m

Tech v Texas 2.89m

Tech v Oklahoma 2.81m

Texas v TCU 2.58m

West Virginia v Oklahoma 2.54m

Oklahoma v UCLA 2.74m

Baylor v Okie St 2.23m

Tech v Arizona 1.73m

K State v Miss St 1.7m

Iowa St v West Virginia 1.57m

Iowa St v Baylor 1.25m

West Virginia v TCU 1.2m

Iowa v Iowa St 1.17m

Texas v Baylor 1.15m

West Virginia v Baylor 1.13m

Texas v Iowa St 1.07m

K State v Texas 1.05m

West Virginia v K State 980k

Okie St v West Virginia 870k

Tech v Baylor 810k

TCU v Okie St 797k

Okie St v Oregon St 789k

West Virginia v Missouri 782k

Baylor v TCU 728k

Iowa St v K State 641k

K State v Tech 633k

West Virginia v NC St 606k

Okie St v Tulsa 605k

Baylor v Kansas 581k

TCU v Tech 562k

Okie St v Iowa St 529k

Okie St v Tech 456k

Tech v West Virginia 429k

Baylor v K State 418k

SMU v TCU 410k

TCU v Iowa St 403k

Tech v Kansas 379k

Iowa St v Tech 343k

Kansas v Okie St 334k

K State v Kansas 296k

ULM v Iowa St 159k

Kansas v TCU 133k

 

So...

Texas had 3 not listed: LA Tech and Kansas both on LHN, and Rice on CBSSN.

Oklahoma has 1 not listed which was PPV against South Dakota (FCS).

 

Omitting those games, Oklahoma and Texas account for 17 of the top 17 games involving Big 12 teams.  UT v K State was opposite most watched game of the year in LSU v Bama (16.64m which even beat every CCG) and pair of late season Texas games were lower down the list but the viewership still never fell below 1 million.  Only a single Big 12 game not featuring Oklahoma or Texas pulled 2 million viewers.

This is much the same as last year.  The rest of the Big 12 just doesn’t pull a national audience.

Going to the Big Ten and ACC aren’t real options.  The SEC wouldn’t be great but it could work.

The best option is the PAC but not in its current form because like the Big 12 they have too much dead weight so they need to just start a new conference and leave the old members behind.  Missing the playoffs multiple years, making a deal with the devil (ESPN) with late night/Friday games (and still making less than most other conferences), having a network that is being dropped from many cable packages has made the PAC12 vulnerable, so much as they are looking to sell equity in the conference’s future earnings for more money today to keep the peace.

USC/UCLA and Texas/Oklahoma can partner together to make a better situation for everyone.  Basically take the 4 Big 12 public universities in Texas/Oklahoma (for political reasons) and the 4 PAC12 universities in California (also for political reasons) and take the best from the rest.

Texas, Tech, Oklahoma, Okie St, Colorado, Arizona

USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington

8 conference games allows for a permanent OOC rivalry (a token peace offering to the state schools left behind ASU, OrSU, WSU but also works for USC/Stanford with Notre Dame and Colorado/Colorado St) to go along with a good non rival OOC opponent.  This is a far better solution for everyone involved/included.

They could add Kansas (for bball and market) and another (Utah?) if they need to go to 14 but that would limit OOC schedule and reduce access to games in in California or Texas which are desirable for recruiting purposes.  I doubt any pair of universities would overcome that negative and pull their weight pound per pound with the above lineup.

This covers basically every major market within the current footprint of the two conferences except SLC and KC but it’s not like those were bringing in a ton of eyeballs (see Kansas v K State game above with 296k viewers; while Utah’s most viewed were against Oregon (CCG) 5.89m, Colorado 2.43m, Washington 1.96m, UCLA 1.53m and USC 1.42m which is pretty good but they had a good season which helps but omitting the CCG those are basically the same as Iowa State’s numbers).

[Tom 2959]

10 hours ago, kopp0e said:

PX6 -
Oklahoma {BCS/ CFP} - 12 invites
Texas {BCS} - 4 invites
USC {BCS} - 7 invites
Oregon {BCS/ CFP} - 6 invites
Washington {CFP} - 1 invite
Stanford (BCS) - 5 invites
Utah (BCS) - 2 invites
TCU (BCS) - 2 invites
Kansas (BCS) - 1 invite
Oklahoma State (BCS) - 1 invite
Colorado (BCS) - 1 invite
UCLA (BCS) - 1 invite
PX6 - * 12 different schools totaling ^43 invites since 1998...

This shows strength in athletics that can remain, while tied to a region with population growth (think future student-athletes)...
 

 

5 new Big 12 schools above means at least a PAC 17 or a PAC school getting the boot.  Not going to happen.

Realignment blows.  The SEC and B1G are too big and the Big 12 is too small, both by number of schools and population.  There's no good way to fix it unless you can somehow convince a few decent schools from another P5 to switch over.  This starts with getting rid of the LHN for a conference network, acting more unified, and doing things the way more attractive conferences do.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

8 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

They could add Kansas (for bball and market)

Honestly, at this point, regular season college basketball is becoming so pointless that I wouldn't bother taking it into account in devising a conference. 

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

13 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

 

Again, no shit.

It will be hilarious to open this board if you guys change leagues and watch everyone bitch and complain about 11PM kicks in Corvallis.

Will Texas be fine? Of course. Is Iowa State at risk in a major realignment? Of course. None of that changes the high likelihood that Texas will be worse off by blowing up the Big 12 in order to play a bunch of schools 1500 miles away that don’t care about football.

 

Under no circumstances will a programming director allow Texas or OU to kick off at 9 pm CST.