Realignment talk not going away

[utee94 16070]

6 hours ago, TrashMaster G said:

We're trailing by $20mil/yr?

 

Oh, no.  Not currently, anyway.  That was a hypothetical.

[closetohumping 17784]

6 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Yeah I think we are tied completely to OU. They are our big rival and we cannot afford to lose them. So if they bail we must follow IMO. Sucks but there it is. 

Disagree.  We were in a different conference for 100 years

[TKthunder2 5058]

6 hours ago, TrashMaster G said:

We're trailing by $20mil/yr?

 

Conference revenue is trailing the Big Ten and SEC by nearly $10 million.  Texas makes more due to the LHN, and Oklahoma also is on par with them due to third party rights, but the other 8 schools are now trailing.  The ACC has increased its revenue (due to the ACCN) and looks like it will stay competitive and should pass the Big12 but won’t likely lead it’s conference neighbors anytime soon. Meanwhile the PAC is last, lagging $5 million behind the Big 12 which is why they are not in a position to poach anyone with their current lineup.  This leads us to an odd stalemate in the West/Southwest.  Texas isn’t joining a conference with WSU and OrSU, and USC is not joining a conference with Baylor or West Virginia.  The obvious solution is to pull their assets together and trim the fat from both conferences.

[kopp0e 1135]

7 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Yeah I think we are tied completely to OU. They are our big rival and we cannot afford to lose them. So if they bail we must follow IMO. Sucks but there it is. 

Here's why (from a Sooner point of view) a league with mighty Texas/ powerful Oklahoma & stellar USC brands can work: 

2019 final CFP ranking before bowl games -

1 LSU 13-0 2 - SEC
2 Ohio State 13-0 1 - B1G
3 Clemson 13-0 3 - ACC
4 Oklahoma 12-1 6 - PXC
5 Georgia 11-2 4 - SEC
6 Oregon 11-2 13 - PXC
7 Baylor 11-2 7
8 Wisconsin 10-3 8 - B1G
9 Florida 10-2 9 - SEC
10 Penn State 10-2 10 - B1G
11 Utah 11-2 5 - PXC
12 Auburn 9-3 11 - SEC
13 Alabama 10-2 12 - SEC
14 Michigan 9-3 14 - B1G
15 Notre Dame 10-2 15 - ACC
16 Iowa 9-3 16 - B1G
17 Memphis 12-1 17
18 Minnesota 10-2 18 - B1G
19 Boise State 12-1 19
20 Appalachian State 12-1 21
21 Cincinnati 10-3 20
22 Southern California 8-4 22 - PXC
23 Navy 9-2 24
24 Virginia 9-4 23 - ACC
25 Oklahoma State 8-4 25 - PXC

FOX 3rd tier backed schools:

B1G - 5

Total: 5

ESPN 3rd tier backed schools:

ACC - 3
SEC- 5
PXC - 5

Total: 13

Those 13 brands on multiple Disney platforms that FOX doesn't offer, think indoctrinating the youth on branding, from an infatuation with "Baby Yoda"...

https://youtu.be/5WF5mTKqQqA

Disney branding, puts Oklahoma smack in middle of sports programming arm with coverage from New York to Florida to Texas to California, that's power...
FOX doesn't have platforms as ESPN+/ Hulu/ Disney+ for streaming, nor 12 separate network channels available for constantly keep Oklahoma in limelight...

The list above, (as bad as XII & PAC separate of one another), has exact same total of top 25 teams (5) as B1G/ SEC tallied in CFP ranking of 2019...
This could have worked well, if Ohio State didn't "gum-up" a message of "inevitability" as ACC won with arguably worse league viewer/ revenue than XII...

https://youtu.be/UOJ-bsgXT_8

I recall ESPN pushed USC all day/ every day, & we all as Sooner fans wondered, "can USC topple Oklahoma's 47 game win streak..?", Clemson threatens...
So, as said, Oklahoma has 3 options, 1 with academics but population decline/ 1 with population growth but bad academics/ 1 that offers #Smarts&Sports...
One option affords Oklahoma to keep most regional foes/ add elite AAU brands/ increase revenues/ hold on to fiefdom/ while expanding footprint of league...

Just my view of how Oklahoma & Texas keep closer historical ties while improving league, pretty much the same as the original merger of Big8 & SWC brands...

 

[TexasMan 11384]

Realignment from the aggy perspective:

 

[Comfort Hire 12]

2 hours ago, tonedeaf said:

PAC wont take baylor.  They were pretty adamant about that last time.  They will be CUSA or AAC.  

This probably true.  The lack of institutional control at Baylor is legendary.  I had a typo above.  I meant to say KU and ISU to the B1G.  So to summarize: (Follow the money)

 

SEC East

Florida , South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vandy, Bama, Auburn, Jawja

SEC West

Piggy, gomer, OU, Misery, LSU, Texas, Ole Miss, Miss St (This just radiates hard bare knuckle football)

B1G East

Rutgers, Maryland, Pedo, tOSU, Michigan, Indiana, Mich St, Northwestern

B1G West

Iowa, Iowa St, Illinois, Whisky, Minnesota, Purdue, Nebraska, Kansas

Pac West

Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Az St., TCU, Texas Tech, Ok St, Kansas St

Pac East

USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Oregon St, Wash, Wash St.

ACC Atlantic

Domer, Syracuse, BC, Louisville, Wake, NC State, Clemson, Florida St

ACC Coastal

Pitt, WVU, Virginia, V Tech, Duke, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, Miami

 

Baylor gets kicked to the curb.  Who cares where they go.

 

[Comfort Hire 12]

9 minutes ago, TexasMan said:

Realignment from the aggy perspective:

 

Disney will decide.  Belmont Hall, Inbred aggys, nor anyone else will decide.  It will be who Disney wants and where.  The outrage will be glorious when we move in to run the SEC West.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Comfort Hire

[Comfort Hire 12]

15 minutes ago, TexasMan said:

Realignment from the aggy perspective:

 

Aggy is incredibly stupid.  Do they not realize the source of their new SEC TV deal is the same source as the LHN?  Poor aggy has been and always will be a pawn.

[clapclapclap 9000]

56 minutes ago, TexasMan said:

Realignment from the aggy perspective:

 

BTW Rusty, we'll said.

[Hurtlocker 2219]

On 12/27/2019 at 9:29 AM, Aqua Buddha said:

Here's a thought for this august body.  I would wager the networks don't want mega conferences because they're just paying out more money.  (Then again, there's the ESPN/SEC deal.)  Would it be in the networks best interest to money whip two other teams into the current Big 12 as is?  I know Texas hates Houston but would they get over it with an additional $50M per year with the additions of Houston and Arkansas?  Networks get to keep the status quo.

Is there any possibility in that?

Late to the party, but a huge possibility.

The biggest threat to the networks isn't if someone goes from 10 to 14 or four go to 16.   To date we haven't really created any new money for the old P5.   The only money that was created was for the schools that moved up into the P5, which hurts the networks.     

But, it is cheaper to add two teams to the Big 12 and pay them $40m more a year than the real threat.   What's keeping the media rights deflated at the moment is conferences.   Created to help define rules for teams who were close and played each other often, conferences became fiefdom after the CFA dissolved.  However, if the Power Five ever did break from the NCAA and pooled their resources, instead of competing against each other, the combined media deal could be astronomical.   It would be like combining a mini version of the NFL and NBA, where you can sell and place games locally, nationwide.   

That's what the networks don't want because the NFL eats their lunch.

[MM42 122]

Weird that OU holds all the cards.  I can't imagine they bolt for the SEC after what they just went thru.  I think they are just talking big and trying to get some leverage.  They like making the playoffs and have to know that all stops if they let their egos take over, they'd have to play in the west for goodness sake.  They have to know how that would go.  They are not going anywhere, their butthurt will reduce soon.  They are inbreds, not fools.

[DFW Horn 6637]

On 12/29/2019 at 11:25 AM, Comfort Hire said:

Pac West East

Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Az St., TCU, Texas Tech, Ok St, Kansas St

Pac East West

USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Oregon St, Wash, Wash St.

FIFY

Nice fantasy, but you got your geography screwed up.

[utee94 16070]

9 minutes ago, MM42 said:

Weird that OU holds all the cards.  I can't imagine they bolt for the SEC after what they just went thru.  I think they are just talking big and trying to get some leverage.  They like making the playoffs and have to know that all stops if they let their egos take over, they'd have to play in the west for goodness sake.  They have to know how that would go.  They are not going anywhere, their butthurt will reduce soon.  They are inbreds, not fools.

OU does hold the cards, but that's really only because Texas has made it clear that we want to stay in the B12.  If Texas definitely wanted to move, then Texas could go to any other conference out there, with or without OU.

 

 

[TKthunder2 5058]

4 hours ago, utee94 said:

OU does hold the cards, but that's really only because Texas has made it clear that we want to stay in the B12.  If Texas definitely wanted to move, then Texas could go to any other conference out there, with or without OU.

True but Texas not wanting to move in 2012 with ESPN paying up for the LHN and Fox/ESPN paying the Big12 the same TV dollars despite the defections is different than them saying today where the conference is second to last in revenue.

The PAC in turmoil is also different from when in its perceived strength it turned down Oklahoma/Okie St.  If Oklahoma leaves it puts Texas in a bad position and then we would no longer have the same leverage as we currently have unless we go independent.

Texas should be exploring their options which should includes independence, status quo, joining an existing conference, starting a new conference, or even starting a new league as was suggested above.

The new league option interests me  because there is so much historical dead weight in every conference that can be removed and more logical alignments that can be redesigned but going down that rabbit hole is probably not healthy.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

5 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Texas should be exploring their options which should includes independence, status quo, joining an existing conference, starting a new conference, or even starting a new league as was suggested above.

if you think our schedules are unappealing now, you should see what they would look like as an independent. we would be playing a lot more G5 opponents

[deter 314]

On 12/29/2019 at 12:16 PM, clapclapclap said:

BTW Rusty, we'll said.

Rusty retired to changing diapers. 

[tonedeaf 56]

12 hours ago, MM42 said:

Weird that OU holds all the cards.  I can't imagine they bolt for the SEC after what they just went thru.  I think they are just talking big and trying to get some leverage.  They like making the playoffs and have to know that all stops if they let their egos take over, they'd have to play in the west for goodness sake.  They have to know how that would go.  They are not going anywhere, their butthurt will reduce soon.  They are inbreds, not fools.

If you are talking bout the LSU game, well they ran into a buzzsaw running at its peak.  But don't kid yourself, OU (and Texas) can compete in the secsecsec.  

[closetohumping 17784]

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

if you think our schedules are unappealing now, you should see what they would look like as an independent. we would be playing a lot more G5 opponents

I’d think it would look like Norte dames?

[utee94 16070]

30 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I’d think it would look like Norte dames?

Notre Dame's got a deal with the ACC to fill in 5 games per year.  I suppose Texas could make a similar deal with whatever remains of the B12, but then the schedule would look mostly like it does now. I don't think Independence is a realistic option, for any number of reasons.

 

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

I’d think it would look like Norte dames?

 

31 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Notre Dame's got a deal with the ACC to fill in 5 games per year. 

 

 

Exactly. Notre Dame is practically in the ACC. Half their schedule is ACC schools.

Independent Texas' schedule would look more like BYU's than Notre Dame's, but hopefully not quite that bad. BYU played something like 7-8 G5 opponents, maybe one FCS. 

Think of it like this: September is easy, October's hard, November's nearly impossible. Few P5 schools play heavy duty out of conference opponents in November and those that do are almost always longstanding rivals a la Florida-Florida State. Those would mostly have to be payday games where we'd pay someone like South Florida or FAU to come absorb a beating, or we'd have to try to find someone like Stanford to establish a regular yearly game with which is easier said than done. Notre Dame already has Stanford and USC rotating on and off the schedule each November so just saying "let's get an annual H&H w/ND in November" isn't as easy as it sounds. BYU would be on the short list since they need inventory as badly as we would. We might play Army regularly, also because they need games. A&M won't agree to anything that they think (think) might help us, so that's out as an option. It won't be anyone obvious, it would either be a hodgepodge or something out of left field like "Miami FL and Texas sign ten-year H&H, meeting each November" (picked Miami randomly). 

It would be pretty sucky. 

[2300 Nueces 163]

Going independent is a non-starter.  Creating a new league without a TV contract is a non-starter.  The fiscal hit taken by going independent without a NBC TV deal would be catastrophic.  It won't happen.  We aren't getting a TV deal like Notre Dame because we aren't Catholic.  At this point, we have 5 options.

 

1.  Stay in the Big 12 and add no teams.  This is a loser in the long run.  The Big 12's next TV deal will not be as good as the B1G deal with Fox or the SEC with Disney.  The Big 12 will slowly die on the vine.  TV deals will be progressively worse over time.

2.  Stay in the Big 12 and add G5 teams/Az schools.  This is a loser in the long run.  The G5 schools are not profitable outside of TV money.  The G5's need to be subsidized in down years.  They do not generate enough revenue.  They would drop the payout per team in the B12 because they don't command enough TV money.

3. Move to PAC 12.  This is not palatable due to the TIME ZONE changes.  It could be remedied by combining an eastern division with AZ schools, CU and Utah.  The biggest drawback would be that the Pac just sucks.  They don't generate enough TV revenue.  They are not football States.  The one thing that could save this option, would be for Apple or Amazon to break the piggy bank and grossly overpay for a league with Texas and OU added.

4. Move to the B1G.  Fenves actually stated that this was his preference.  Financially it is a viable choice due to the Fox deal but the closest competitor would be OU and next would be over 800 miles away in the frozen tundra of the north.  This is not a good decision because we would be in the B1G West where the football stinks.  It would not be attractive to fans to watch the conference opener against Illinois in early October.  Blah

5.  Move to the SEC.  This is the best option.  As stated above, we regain all of our historical rivals and then some.  Our current LHN contract is with Disney.  The SEC just hit the jackpot with it's current disney contract.  They are a natural fit.  We belong in a league with gomer, piggy, and blo u.  They are who we want to play every year.  They are our natural rivals.

What are the obstacles to joining the SEC?

    1.  Belmont Hall has a stick up it's ass when it comes to academics and the SEC.  The PC idiots who run our school think that we can have a PC University and make PC decisions when competing with Schools who run their athletic programs like a business.  We need to reject the PC politics and get down to running a business.  Dodds was excellent at bringing in revenue but was not good at making good football coaching hires. 

   2.  Our current teams in the SEC would regularly be middle of the pack or near last place.  Let's face it.  We are soft.  The money has made us soft.  We don't demand excellence in our athletic department.  Our fans demand it but the admins don't.  In many ways, we are like the Dallas Cowboys.  A move to the SEC would remove the ease of the Big 12 and force some changes which would be demanded by the fan base and BMD's.

 

Personally, I think Texas choses option 1.  We are lazy and it's the path of least resistance.  If OU does the same, we will slowly become irrelevant in college sports, especially football.  So it's up to OU to save us.  Please OU, have some balls and kill this conference.

[HornsofBevo 122]

44 minutes ago, 2300 Nueces said:

Going independent is a non-starter.  Creating a new league without a TV contract is a non-starter.  The fiscal hit taken by going independent without a NBC TV deal would be catastrophic.  It won't happen.  We aren't getting a TV deal like Notre Dame because we aren't Catholic.  At this point, we have 5 options.

 

1.  Stay in the Big 12 and add no teams.  This is a loser in the long run.  The Big 12's next TV deal will not be as good as the B1G deal with Fox or the SEC with Disney.  The Big 12 will slowly die on the vine.  TV deals will be progressively worse over time.

2.  Stay in the Big 12 and add G5 teams/Az schools.  This is a loser in the long run.  The G5 schools are not profitable outside of TV money.  The G5's need to be subsidized in down years.  They do not generate enough revenue.  They would drop the payout per team in the B12 because they don't command enough TV money.

3. Move to PAC 12.  This is not palatable due to the TIME ZONE changes.  It could be remedied by combining an eastern division with AZ schools, CU and Utah.  The biggest drawback would be that the Pac just sucks.  They don't generate enough TV revenue.  They are not football States.  The one thing that could save this option, would be for Apple or Amazon to break the piggy bank and grossly overpay for a league with Texas and OU added.

4. Move to the B1G.  Fenves actually stated that this was his preference.  Financially it is a viable choice due to the Fox deal but the closest competitor would be OU and next would be over 800 miles away in the frozen tundra of the north.  This is not a good decision because we would be in the B1G West where the football stinks.  It would not be attractive to fans to watch the conference opener against Illinois in early October.  Blah

5.  Move to the SEC.  This is the best option.  As stated above, we regain all of our historical rivals and then some.  Our current LHN contract is with Disney.  The SEC just hit the jackpot with it's current disney contract.  They are a natural fit.  We belong in a league with gomer, piggy, and blo u.  They are who we want to play every year.  They are our natural rivals.

What are the obstacles to joining the SEC?

    1.  Belmont Hall has a stick up it's ass when it comes to academics and the SEC.  The PC idiots who run our school think that we can have a PC University and make PC decisions when competing with Schools who run their athletic programs like a business.  We need to reject the PC politics and get down to running a business.  Dodds was excellent at bringing in revenue but was not good at making good football coaching hires. 

   2.  Our current teams in the SEC would regularly be middle of the pack or near last place.  Let's face it.  We are soft.  The money has made us soft.  We don't demand excellence in our athletic department.  Our fans demand it but the admins don't.  In many ways, we are like the Dallas Cowboys.  A move to the SEC would remove the ease of the Big 12 and force some changes which would be demanded by the fan base and BMD's.

 

Personally, I think Texas choses option 1.  We are lazy and it's the path of least resistance.  If OU does the same, we will slowly become irrelevant in college sports, especially football.  So it's up to OU to save us.  Please OU, have some balls and kill this conference.

I agree with most of what you're saying but to think Texas and Ousux would be stuck as a mid-tier team is wrong. The schedule most years for Texas would consist of

Ou-Split

LSU-split

Ark-win

aggy-win

Misery-win

Ole Miss-win

Miss St-win

Random SEC east-Split

That schedule with a soft OOC will have us at 9 or better wins every year. Having a 10 win team playing in the SEC will make Texas recruiting go to top 5 every year which will eventually lead to playoffs and a NC. This also makes aggy less appealing to recruits who want to play in the SEC but would also like to stay close to home. Texas is not becoming Alabama, LSU or one of the mississippi schools academically when they join the SEC. The only reason we are not playing there yet is because of the academic side think we would become a strictly football school with education as a side thought but I believe Texas as a university is more likely to raise the standard in the SEC than Texas lowering it standards.  The SEC is the way to go. Your points about historic rivals and the financial disparity growing is spot on. I can only hope that the right people at Texas and Ousux will be able to see it too.

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by HornsofBevo

['stache 22117]

49 minutes ago, 2300 Nueces said:

1.  Stay in the Big 12 and add no teams.  This is a loser in the long run.  The Big 12's next TV deal will not be as good as the B1G deal with Fox or the SEC with Disney.  The Big 12 will slowly die on the vine.  TV deals will be progressively worse over time.

Really don't understand this. Per school, we will be competitive in any new deal. And you'll always be taken care of with LHN or other tier three rights. We already make more than PAC and I think ACC per school, or it's at least close. The PAC is the most in trouble because they just aren't drawing ratings. Time zone and general indiferrence in their markets. Big 12 markets draw big college football ratings.

[2300 Nueces 163]

20 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Really don't understand this. Per school, we will be competitive in any new deal. And you'll always be taken care of with LHN or other tier three rights. We already make more than PAC and I think ACC per school, or it's at least close. The PAC is the most in trouble because they just aren't drawing ratings. Time zone and general indiferrence in their markets. Big 12 markets draw big college football ratings.

We will know soon.  I don't think the money for the next B12 TV deal is going to be close to the Fox deal with the B1G or SEC and Disney.  At best we are even with the B1G deal when adding the LHN money and behind the SEC.  Should Texas be earning the same TV money as Purdue and less than Vandy?  NO.  Why will the B12 command less $$?  Last year we had to prostitute our CCG to Disney because no one else wanted it.  The only reason Disney ponied up was because of Texas' relationship with Disney.  The desirable TV markets in the B12 are mostly in Texas.  Right now Fox and Disney are trying to move Texas in their direction.  Fox is making their power play with OU to pry us away.  Disney just upped the ante with it's deal with the SEC.  Our real problem are the doddering fools in our administration who can't make a decision.  Disney is trying to make it easy by overpaying but some people have ideologies that can't be compromised. We shall see.

Edited December 31, 2019 by 2300 Nueces

['stache 22117]

9 minutes ago, 2300 Nueces said:

We will know soon.  I don't think the money for the next B12 TV deal is going to be close to the Fox deal with the B1G or SEC and Disney.  At best we are even with the B1G deal when adding the LHN money and behind the SEC.  Should Texas be earning the same TV money as Purdue and less than Vandy?  NO.  Why will the B12 command less $$?  Last year we had to prostitute our CCG to Disney because no one else wanted it.  The only reason Disney ponied up was because of Texas' relationship with Disney.  The desirable TV markets in the B12 are mostly in Texas.  Right now Fox and Disney are trying to move Texas in their direction.  Fox is making their power play with OU to pry us away.  Disney just upped the ante with it's deal with the SEC.  Our real problem are the doddering fools in our administration who can't make a decision.  Disney is trying to make it easy by overpaying but some people have ideologies that can't be compromised. We shall see.

Big 12 CCG drew good ratings, right where you would expect, below SEC and BIG, and above PAC and ACC. I'm still not seeing why you think we're in any more danger than the PAC and ACC. It's clear SEC and BIG will continue to be the strongest conferences financially, but Big 12 is clearly 3rd. Prestige is still there too, OU keeps making the playoff, and UT is still considered a blueblood despite struggling on the field. Baylor, TCU, OKST, KSU, WVU all get plenty of respect when they are playing well. ISU has gotten respect in their recent surge. People still remember that even KU won an Orange Bowl in 2009 and Les will draw attention. The conference is fine as is. I still think in concept a CCG rematch is stupid, but it draws ratings and money, so it is what it is.

 

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/

Edited December 31, 2019 by 'stache

[atomheartbevo 90550]

20 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Really don't understand this. Per school, we will be competitive in any new deal. And you'll always be taken care of with LHN or other tier three rights. We already make more than PAC and I think ACC per school, or it's at least close. The PAC is the most in trouble because they just aren't drawing ratings. Time zone and general indiferrence in their markets. Big 12 markets draw big college football ratings.

PAC footprint favors pro sports more.  Just the nature of the beast when you have a lot of NFL, MLB, and NBA teams in a relatively small geographic area/proximity, several of whom have a lot of success, and just as importantly, you have a culture (Hollywood/LA, the tech bros scattered between CA, OR, and WA, etc.) and a population footprint that favors those pro sports.

That's a big part of what frustrates me about the folks pushing a PAC merger - there is nothing in existence now or on the horizon that is going to make the PAC more interesting to those in the PAC footprint who are not already into CFB.  There is no dominant CFB program in the PAC that is dynasty-like and that will excite potential bandwagon fans either, let alone the 2-3 such programs that are truly needed to sustain and grow things.  B12 teams would not fix that in any way either (and would probably make it worse).

[Thiefery 5108]

I hope the conference survives but I don't want to move out West nor head to the Big ten.  Seems it's either the Big 12 or SEC

[utee94 16070]

4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Big 12 CCG drew good ratings, right where you would expect, below SEC and BIG, and above PAC and ACC. I'm still not seeing why you think we're in any more danger than the PAC and ACC. It's clear SEC and BIG will continue to be the strongest conferences financially, but Big 12 is clearly 3rd. Prestige is still there too, OU keeps making the playoff, and UT is still considered a blueblood despite struggling on the field. Baylor, TCU, OKST, KSU, WVU all get plenty of respect when they are playing well. ISU has gotten respect in their recent surge. People still remember that even KU won an Orange Bowl in 2009 and Les will draw attention. The conference is fine as is. I still think in concept a CCG rematch is stupid, but it draws ratings and money, so it is what it is.

 

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/

B12 is definitely in better shape than the PAC and ACC, consequently Texas won't make any move to join the PAC or ACC.  Now, constructing a new conference using only the most valuable properties of one or the other, is something else entirely.   I see this as unlikely, but not completely impossible like it might have been a decade ago.

Or, the easiest route to money and reestablishing historical rivalries, would be to move to the SEC-West with OU.

 

Just now, Thiefery said:

I hope the conference survives but I don't want to move out West nor head to the Big ten.  Seems it's either the Big 12 or SEC

Yup, that's about the sum of it.

[2300 Nueces 163]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Big 12 CCG drew good ratings, right where you would expect, below SEC and BIG, and above PAC and ACC. I'm still not seeing why you think we're in any more danger than the PAC and ACC. It's clear SEC and BIG will continue to be the strongest conferences financially, but Big 12 is clearly 3rd. Prestige is still there too, OU keeps making the playoff, and UT is still considered a blueblood despite struggling on the field. Baylor, TCU, OKST, KSU, WVU all get plenty of respect when they are playing well. ISU has gotten respect in their recent surge. People still remember that even KU won an Orange Bowl in 2009 and Les will draw attention. The conference is fine as is. I still think in concept a CCG rematch is stupid, but it draws ratings and money, so it is what it is.

 

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/

The Big12 is mediocre.  Texas athletic department is mediocre.  Texas' revenue is #1.  If Texas desires to stay #1 in revenue, it's going to have to make a move.  The position we have in the Big 12 is going to be our death in the long run.  We need to take some risk and get stronger.  The Big 12 is not helping us.  The thought of an easy path to the playoff is not helping anyone in the Big 12.  Soon if we aren't already there, the Big 12 will not garner a spot in the playoff unless the champion is undefeated.  A one loss OU or Texas will be percieved as weak because of OU's poor performances in the playoff.  It's coming.  The B1G and SEC will poach more and more Texas talent due to the perceived weakness of the B12.  Right now, Texas is weak.  We are not a great football school.

[6th Street 6655]

SEC is not a viable option unless we are prepared to properly pay players like Auburn, UGA, and LSU. We'd become another middling A&M/Tenn type program. 

[2300 Nueces 163]

5 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

SEC is not a viable option unless we are prepared to properly pay players like Auburn, UGA, and LSU. We'd become another middling A&M/Tenn type program. 

And paying players for using their likeness may be our ticket.  We have more money than anyone in the SEC.  Will our administration do it?  Our current path is not one of success.  We are losing the top Texas talent to the teams that pay.

Edited December 31, 2019 by 2300 Nueces

[Thiefery 5108]

how about we worry about winning the conference first before thinking a weak 1 loss Texas team will get passed over for a CFP spot.  I hate all these conferences.. in fact I bet fans in the Rust belt and SEC don't like it either.  If Texas joined the SEC WEST.. they gonna draw up the divisions again and put Mizzu back in the west too? Take both MS school East?  Best course of action would be for all the schools to go under one umbrella at the P5 level.. and redo divisions that fit geographically. 

[atomheartbevo 90550]

7 minutes ago, 2300 Nueces said:

The Big12 is mediocre.  Texas athletic department is mediocre.  Texas' revenue is #1.  If Texas desires to stay #1 in revenue, it's going to have to make a move.  The position we have in the Big 12 is going to be our death in the long run.  We need to take some risk and get stronger.  The Big 12 is not helping us. 

The Big 12 is not why we are mediocre right now, and it's a fool's errand to think that switching conferences will fix anything.

We filled the dumpster up ourselves and we set it on fire, and only time will tell whether we fixed it with the latest round of coaching changes.

Edited December 31, 2019 by atomheartbevo

[Al_4_ISU 12612]

The only reason the Big 12 is in more danger than the ACC and Pac 12 is because the most powerful schools insist that it's in danger.  If there wasn't this constant kerfuffle of discussion about whether or not the Big 12 is good for OU and Texas, this would go away.

USC and Oregon aren't whining about whether or not the Pac 12 works for them.  Clemson and whoever else matters in the ACC aren't whining about whether or not the ACC works for them.

The Big 12 has a history of the schools who are in it thinking they're too good for it and always looking for the exit.  I don't understand why this is, because it certainly isn't any more true of the Big 12 on paper than it is other conferences, but the schools with the most power have been carrying this outlook for eons.  It was absolutely a contributor to the realignment a decade ago.

[2300 Nueces 163]

1 minute ago, Thiefery said:

how about we worry about winning the conference first before thinking a weak 1 loss Texas team will get passed over for a CFP spot.  I hate all these conferences.. in fact I bet fans in the Rust belt and SEC don't like it either.  If Texas joined the SEC WEST.. they gonna draw up the divisions again and put Mizzu back in the west too? Take both MS school East?  Best course of action would be for all the schools to go under one umbrella at the P5 level.. and redo divisions that fit geographically. 

Sure but it's not going to happen.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

6 minutes ago, 2300 Nueces said:

And paying players for using their likeness may be our ticket.  We have more money than anyone in the SEC.  Will our administration do it?

I don't think you understand how "paying players for using their likeness" works.

[2300 Nueces 163]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The Big 12 is not why we are mediocre right now, and it's a fool's errand to think that switching conferences will fix anything.

We filled the dumpster up, ourselves and we set it on fire, and only time will tell whether we fixed it with the latest round of coaching changes.

Oh I agree but a move to a more competitive landscape will magnify crappy coaching, so possibly better decisions can be expected.  Maybe we move away from factions of BMD's fighting over coaching hires.  We have had crappy coaching for a decade.  Comically, Disney may step in and mandate some changes to our dysfunctional admin and actually bring some competence to our athletic department.  They have a huge investment in our football program, lol.

Edited December 31, 2019 by 2300 Nueces

[2300 Nueces 163]

4 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I don't think you understand how "paying players for using their likeness" works.

Maybe so but if we want to continue the current revenue position, changes are going to have to be made.  Currently the Texas High School talent is beginning to make it for us.

[Thiefery 5108]

4 minutes ago, 2300 Nueces said:

Oh I agree but a move to a more competitive landscape will magnify crappy coaching, so possibly better decisions can be expected.  Maybe we move away from factions of BMD's fighting over coaching hires.  We have had crappy coaching for a decade.  Comically, Disney may step in and mandate some changes to our dysfunctional admin and actually bring some competence to our athletic department.  They have a huge investment in our football program, lol.

LOL Disney gonna tell Texas to fire Tom or CDC because we have sucked?  

[2300 Nueces 163]

2 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

LOL Disney gonna tell Texas to fire Tom or CDC because we have sucked?  

Wouldn't that be hilarious.  At least they wouldn't accept Shaka Smart past 2 seasons as the bottom line would dictate kicking his ass to the curb.

[LTbear 4209]

Even while separating myself from my fan allegiance (Colorado, Baylor, Cal) for the sake of the discussion, I really hope the B1G and SEC don't add more teams. I know it's old-fashioned now, but damn college football was more fun when it was more regional. 

A 16 team conference? Give me a break. As is, SEC teams in separate divisions will complete a home and home with each other once a fucking decade. That's ridiculous.

10 or 12, max, is just right for a conference. 

 

[2300 Nueces 163]

19 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The only reason the Big 12 is in more danger than the ACC and Pac 12 is because the most powerful schools insist that it's in danger.  If there wasn't this constant kerfuffle of discussion about whether or not the Big 12 is good for OU and Texas, this would go away.

USC and Oregon aren't whining about whether or not the Pac 12 works for them.  Clemson and whoever else matters in the ACC aren't whining about whether or not the ACC works for them.

The Big 12 has a history of the schools who are in it thinking they're too good for it and always looking for the exit.  I don't understand why this is, because it certainly isn't any more true of the Big 12 on paper than it is other conferences, but the schools with the most power have been carrying this outlook for eons.  It was absolutely a contributor to the realignment a decade ago.

When was the last time the PAC made the playoff?  Why has the PAC withdrawn from discussing a TV deal with Disney, Fox, and ABC?  They are expecting Apple to bail them out.  If not, they are going to be irrelevant more than they are now.  If that's what Texas wants, well go for it.  I'll stop watching.  I stopped watching Jerry ball in 1995.  The Cowboys are screwed.

[utee94 16070]

11 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Even while separating myself from my fan allegiance (Colorado, Baylor, Cal) for the sake of the discussion, I really hope the B1G and SEC don't add more teams. I know it's old-fashioned now, but damn college football was more fun when it was more regional. 

A 16 team conference? Give me a break. As is, SEC teams in separate divisions will complete a home and home with each other once a fucking decade. That's ridiculous.

10 or 12, max, is just right for a conference. 

 

Cat's long since out of the bag on that one. I know some fans of teams in the SEC and B1G are regretting some of their recent adds, which have diluted their conferences and turned them into scheduling jokes, but it's their conference administrations that continue to engage in the arms race, and they're not going to stop until they reach armageddon.  The current stalemate will only exist as long as Notre Dame and Texas refuse to join either conference.

 

[Al_4_ISU 12612]

11 minutes ago, 2300 Nueces said:

When was the last time the PAC made the playoff?  Why has the PAC withdrawn from discussing a TV deal with Disney, Fox, and ABC?  They are expecting Apple to bail them out.  If not, they are going to be irrelevant more than they are now.  If that's what Texas wants, well go for it.  I'll stop watching.  I stopped watching Jerry ball in 1995.  The Cowboys are screwed.

That's kind of my point.  The Big 12 is a long ways ahead of the Pac 12, but no one really thinks the Pac 12 is going to die.  I'm guessing USC message boards don't have threads about joining other conferences.  Like the idea isn't even on their radar.

A big issue for the Big 12 is that through all of it's history (and going back to the Big 8 days) there have been schools that have held this inherent belief that they were "above" the rest of the schools in the league, and would be better off by leaving.  That simply isn't in the DNA of the blue blood schools in the Pac 12 and ACC.

[SnowAggy 154]

21 minutes ago, 2300 Nueces said:

The Big12 is mediocre.  Texas athletic department is mediocre.  Texas' revenue is #1.  If Texas desires to stay #1 in revenue, it's going to have to make a move.  The position we have in the Big 12 is going to be our death in the long run.  We need to take some risk and get stronger.  The Big 12 is not helping us.  The thought of an easy path to the playoff is not helping anyone in the Big 12.  Soon if we aren't already there, the Big 12 will not garner a spot in the playoff unless the champion is undefeated.  A one loss OU or Texas will be percieved as weak because of OU's poor performances in the playoff.  It's coming.  The B1G and SEC will poach more and more Texas talent due to the perceived weakness of the B12.  Right now, Texas is weak.  We are not a great football school.

As an outside observer I see a lack of commitment by your AD to football excellence.  UT is a historic blue blooded brand.  They are now, they were while they were in the SWC, and I presume before that...

The Big 12 will suffice as a supporting conference for UT.  OU's trips to the playoff prove that.

UT doesn't have the best coaches they could / should have.  By adding Chris Ash you'll now have three former ISU coaches on your staff (Herman, Ash, McKnight) at critical positions none of whom we miss.  CDC needs to make a statement hire.  If that's Urban or Saban or fucking Bill Belichick he needs to do it.  Are we really supposed to believe that Alabama and tOSU are destinations above UT???  The richest AD in America should have a top 3 head coach minimum.  You don't.

Also, UT and OU need to pressure the conference brass to go to eight conference games thereby opening up dates for UT & OU to schedule up (or down).

 

[2300 Nueces 163]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That's kind of my point.  The Big 12 is a long ways ahead of the Pac 12, but no one really thinks the Pac 12 is going to die.  I'm guessing USC message boards don't have threads about joining other conferences.  Like the idea isn't even on their radar.

A big issue for the Big 12 is that through all of it's history (and going back to the Big 8 days) there have been schools that have held this inherent belief that they were "above" the rest of the schools in the league, and would be better off by leaving.  That simply isn't in the DNA of the blue blood schools in the Pac 12 and ACC.

The PAC isn't being torn apart either.  It's geography protects it's original schools.  The Big 12 is a shell of it's former state.  It's not getting better and the next TV deal will illustrate my point.  We have reached the peak and the future will be not be bright.  The OU performance in the playoff is indicative of what is to come.  One day the Big 12 will be celebrate when it's champion is under consideration for the playoff, not winning it.  That is where the PAC is now.

['stache 22117]

51 minutes ago, 2300 Nueces said:

The Big12 is mediocre.  Texas athletic department is mediocre.  Texas' revenue is #1.  If Texas desires to stay #1 in revenue, it's going to have to make a move.  The position we have in the Big 12 is going to be our death in the long run.  We need to take some risk and get stronger.  The Big 12 is not helping us.  The thought of an easy path to the playoff is not helping anyone in the Big 12.  Soon if we aren't already there, the Big 12 will not garner a spot in the playoff unless the champion is undefeated.  A one loss OU or Texas will be percieved as weak because of OU's poor performances in the playoff.  It's coming.  The B1G and SEC will poach more and more Texas talent due to the perceived weakness of the B12.  Right now, Texas is weak.  We are not a great football school.

The Big 12 often is recognized as the strongest conference top to bottom. This year was a year of mediocrity across the board. It happens. But a lot of schools are going to be better next year. UT is mediocre for reasons I don't know, but a decade of mediocrity isn't hurting your credibility any. If you are a one loss team next year, you're in the playoff. Same with OU. The rest of us need to be undefeated. Your strength of schedule will always be fine, even with this year's mediocre Big 12. The 9 game round robin will always ensure that, as will your strong OOC matchups. 

OU sucks in the playoff because OU sucks. That has nothing to do with the conference.

[2300 Nueces 163]

5 minutes ago, SnowAggy said:

As an outside observer I see a lack of commitment by your AD to football excellence.  UT is a historic blue blooded brand.  They are now, they were while they were in the SWC, and I presume before that...

The Big 12 will suffice as a supporting conference for UT.  OU's trips to the playoff prove that.

UT doesn't have the best coaches they could / should have.  By adding Chris Ash you'll now have three former ISU coaches on your staff (Herman, Ash, McKnight) at critical positions none of whom we miss.  CDC needs to make a statement hire.  If that's Urban or Saban or fucking Bill Belichick he needs to do it.  Are we really supposed to believe that Alabama and tOSU are destinations above UT???  The richest AD in America should have a top 3 head coach minimum.  You don't.

Also, UT and OU need to pressure the conference brass to go to eight conference games thereby opening up dates for UT & OU to schedule up (or down).

 

Yep, it's called the politically correct campus culture.  Currently the football program is the host being cannibalized for the academic largess...  At some point the host will die and so will the academic largess that lives off the AD.  At the current trajectory, I give UT football 10 years til it's at Tennessee status.

[2300 Nueces 163]

4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The Big 12 often is recognized as the strongest conference top to bottom. This year was a year of mediocrity across the board. It happens. But a lot of schools are going to be better next year. UT is mediocre for reasons I don't know, but a decade of mediocrity isn't hurting your credibility any. If you are a one loss team next year, you're in the playoff. Same with OU. The rest of us need to be undefeated. Your strength of schedule will always be fine, even with this year's mediocre Big 12. The 9 game round robin will always ensure that, as will your strong OOC matchups. 

OU sucks in the playoff because OU sucks. That has nothing to do with the conference.

Money will dictate the future.  The B12 trajectory is downward.  If someone ponies up B1G or SEC type money, I'll stand corrected but I doubt it happens.  The SEC will buy the Texas talent as well as tOSU and Pedo.  It's already happening.

['stache 22117]

Just now, 2300 Nueces said:

Money will dictate the future.  The B12 trajectory is downward.  If someone ponies up B1G or SEC type money, I'll stand corrected but I doubt it happens.  The SEC will buy the Texas talent as well as tOSU and Pedo.  It's already happening.

Big 12 will be somewhere behind SEC and BIG, but not by much, and way ahead of PAC and ACC. That is completely reasonable, in my view.