Realignment talk not going away

['stache 21802]

4 minutes ago, Llogg said:

I'm not saying you should be happy about it. But it shouldn't be a surprise. Water is wet. No one gives a shit about Iowa State. The sun will continue to rise in the east.

Iowa State averaged 1.2 million viewers per game last year, which is 27th overall. No they're not a blueblood or really even close but the "nobody gives a shit" line is hyperbolic and tiresome. 

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2021-49ef4f315858

Edited July 6, 2022 by 'stache

[maninblack 7974]

 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

I think it will be interesting to see how playoff bids shake out once it gets expanded to 12 teams. The new Big 12 probably ends up doing pretty well from that end, despite making less money. And most of the remaining schools don't fund very many sports, anyway, so the money they do get goes further with football.

['stache 21802]

It's pretty clear that its over unless Notre Dame joins the BIG. I really wish they'd get off the fucking pot already so we can end this nonsense and see where everyone ends up.

[camel at sea 589]

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

 

Not taking UO and UW right away has the stink of the Big Ten not wanting to be perceived as the one who killed the PAC.  First... "we're waiting on Notre Dame."  Now we've got their mouthpiece over at ESPN suggesting that those two might come onto the Big Ten's radar *for the first time* if the alternative is that those two join the Big 12.  

[JFKFC 4878]

17 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The hubris it takes for you guys to think we should just shut the fuck up and be happy to get relegated is something. 

You are not being relegated down. You are being placed at the level you deserve. 

Let me give you a real world example. Let's say there is a 20 year old college girl. She isn't fat, kinda cute...but no one would call her pretty. Because she drinks like crazy, is flirty and has no morals, she hooks up a lot. This continues through her 20s. Some of the guys that bang her are top tier guys (wealthy, connected, very handsome, high achievers). When she decides at 30 to find a husband, she realizes that none of the top tier guys will make a commitment to her. They banged her because she was available but there is nothing about her that merits a long term commitment. She will either marry a guy at her level (and wrongly think she is settling) or stay single and complain that there are no 'husband material' guys available. That young girl was me. I banged everyone west of The Drag and South of 28th street. I am living off of the money my grandmother left me, trying to get my homemade jewelry business off the ground. I spend my nights drinking wine and watching Netflix alone. I am the Iowa State of love.

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

I'm not saying you should be happy about it. But it shouldn't be a surprise. Water is wet. No one gives a shit about Iowa State. The sun will continue to rise in the east.

Again - we’re top 25 in attendance and top 30 in TV draw.

Do less people care about us than Texas? Absolutely. But more people care about ISU than 1/3 of the Big 10 and SEC schools.

[mdmost 43001]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

It's pretty clear that its over unless Notre Dame joins the BIG. I really wish they'd get off the fucking pot already so we can end this nonsense and see where everyone ends up.

I actually am fine with Notre Dame telling the Big 10 to f off. If anyone can do it, it's Notre Dame. Then maybe that saves some hope for the ACC to stay alive. If NBC can pony up a nice amount before 2025, Notre Dame has no real incentive to join. The CFP has bent over backwards to put Notre Dame in multiple times. I don't see that changing even with a larger SEC and Big 10. It's all about eyeballs and Notre Dame brings those. 

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

You are not being relegated down. You are being placed at the level you deserve. 
Let me give you a real world example. Let's say there is a 20 year old college girl. She isn't fat, kinda cute...but no one would call her pretty. Because she drinks like crazy, is flirty and has no morals, she hooks up a lot. This continues through her 20s. Some of the guys that bang her are top tier guys (wealthy, connected, very handsome, high achievers). When she decides at 30 to find a husband, she realizes that none of the top tier guys will make a commitment to her. They banged her because she was available but there is nothing about her that merits a long term commitment. She will either marry a guy at her level (and wrongly think she is settling) or stay single and complain that there are no 'husband material' guys available. That young girl was me. I banged everyone west of The Drag and South of 28th street. I am living off of the money my grandmother left me, trying to get my homemade jewelry business off the ground. I spend my nights drinking wine and watching Netflix alone. I am the Iowa State of love.

Yeah, but it’s not the level we deserve and that’s my point.

Of course this is all assuming a Top 48 that we’re outside of.

[Hurtlocker 2212]

47 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Bullshit layered on more bullshit.

Welcome to Twitter.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

7 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Again - we’re top 25 in attendance and top 30 in TV draw.

Do less people care about us than Texas? Absolutely. But more people care about ISU than 1/3 of the Big 10 and SEC schools.

Fucking this.

Some of you guys are acting like Iowa State is Kansas or something.

Oh - shit - my bad.

Too soon?

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

Fucking this.
Some of you guys are acting like Iowa State is Kansas or something.
Oh - shit - my bad.
Too soon?

And naturally, my arguments here all apply to Oklahoma State too.

But hey, we sucked 30 years ago!

[Vertigo 20276]

17 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

You are not being relegated down. You are being placed at the level you deserve. 

Let me give you a real world example. Let's say there is a 20 year old college girl. She isn't fat, kinda cute...but no one would call her pretty. Because she drinks like crazy, is flirty and has no morals, she hooks up a lot. This continues through her 20s. Some of the guys that bang her are top tier guys (wealthy, connected, very handsome, high achievers). When she decides at 30 to find a husband, she realizes that none of the top tier guys will make a commitment to her. They banged her because she was available but there is nothing about her that merits a long term commitment. She will either marry a guy at her level (and wrongly think she is settling) or stay single and complain that there are no 'husband material' guys available. That young girl was me. I banged everyone west of The Drag and South of 28th street. I am living off of the money my grandmother left me, trying to get my homemade jewelry business off the ground. I spend my nights drinking wine and watching Netflix alone. I am the Iowa State of love.

Ah crap. This is awkward. Pretty sure I banged you and set your bar too high. 

[SilasCoade 2622]

14 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Again - we’re top 25 in attendance and top 30 in TV draw.

Do less people care about us than Texas? Absolutely. But more people care about ISU than 1/3 of the Big 10 and SEC schools.

Congrats on the attendance, but that's fickle. The TV numbers in isolation aren't really the confirmation you think. How were the ratings vs their televised opponents' average ratings. In other words, were people actually tuning in to watch Iowa State? Were a bunch of them tuning in to see the opponent? Were they tuning in because there was fuck all else on at that time slot?

Even accepting your conclusion as iron clad that Iowa State is a fixture in the top 30 by any metric, it still comes down to who gives a shit? In a top-48 world it's still the top dozen driving the bus. Nobody cares if Iowa State would bring 15% (made up number, pick your own) more TV viewers than Mississippi State. You're talking about a rounding error in difference and making it seem like the most important data point in the analysis.

[Doctor of Neighborhood 429]

21 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

I banged everyone west of The Drag and South of 28th street. I am living off of the money my grandmother left me, trying to get my homemade jewelry business off the ground. I spend my nights drinking wine and watching Netflix alone. I am the Iowa State of love.

Damn.  I already have a decent username.

[Deej 76759]

30 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

You are not being relegated down. You are being placed at the level you deserve. 

Let me give you a real world example. Let's say there is a 20 year old college girl. She isn't fat, kinda cute...but no one would call her pretty. Because she drinks like crazy, is flirty and has no morals, she hooks up a lot. This continues through her 20s. Some of the guys that bang her are top tier guys (wealthy, connected, very handsome, high achievers). When she decides at 30 to find a husband, she realizes that none of the top tier guys will make a commitment to her. They banged her because she was available but there is nothing about her that merits a long term commitment. She will either marry a guy at her level (and wrongly think she is settling) or stay single and complain that there are no 'husband material' guys available. That young girl was me. I banged everyone west of The Drag and South of 28th street. I am living off of the money my grandmother left me, trying to get my homemade jewelry business off the ground. I spend my nights drinking wine and watching Netflix alone. I am the Iowa State of love.

[bullet 1596]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'm saying that in a conversation about value, the ability of pretty much everyone to ignore some of the real life stats that indicate value is something else.

If you're trying to get the most valuable and worthwhile properties into the next level, and the cut off is 48, it's pretty clear that ISU fits.  If this is about building tree forts, well, we were ugly in 4th grade and no one in this town cares what we look like now.

ISU is top 48 in value to who?

Its really the media companies.  Do they not value ISU because they already have Iowa in a small population state?  If you want to talk about brand value, Rutgers is probably #69 in the P5.  Maryland is bottom 10.  But the Big 10 still took them.  I don't see Duke getting left behind, but they have minimal football value.

People keep talking about the Pac 12 teams having value and the Big 10 being interested in them, but nobody watches.  Is that valuable to the TV networks to have those markets when nobody watches the teams?

 

[Texzilla58 4733]

I'm saying that in a conversation about value, the ability of pretty much everyone to ignore some of the real life stats that indicate value is something else.
If you're trying to get the most valuable and worthwhile properties into the next level, and the cut off is 48, it's pretty clear that ISU fits.  If this is about building tree forts, well, we were ugly in 4th grade and no one in this town cares what we look like now.

Besides the already discussed issues, the reason ISU doesn’t get in on a 48 slot slate is that those already in the Big10 or SEC aren’t leaving. It’s not a clean slate. Vandy is not getting kicked out of the SEC. Mizzou isn’t going anywhere even though they are a suck fit to the SEC. And I don’t think the politicians of the coastal Pac12 teams will allow those schools into a conference with Texas or Oklahoma schools. If so that really wrecks the Big12 as a third power conference.

[Incredulity 11665]

Poorly thought out/couldn’t work hot take warning 

 

Ripoff the Premier League. Do away with conferences.  Annual relegation from and promotion to a playoff division of 48 or so with a post season 16 team tournament.  Season schedule strength based on final finish of last year. '

[David Dennison 18854]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The hubris it takes for you guys to think we should just shut the fuck up and be happy to get relegated is something. 

We're Texas.

[Valmy77 13226]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Conferences themselves are not public institutions and not subject to FOIA. Public schools on their end are subject to FOIA disclosure (subject to the rules on certain types of information). Private schools are not subject to FOIA. The idea that a private school is required to make a conference private makes no sense. It's already not a public institution subject to FOIA. They may have other disclosure requirements based on their business form and maybe by the NCAA.

Yeah there were no private schools in the old Big 8 but I don't recall that forcing that conference to be super transparent while the others could cover shit up.

[Valmy77 13226]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Again - we’re top 25 in attendance and top 30 in TV draw.

Do less people care about us than Texas? Absolutely. But more people care about ISU than 1/3 of the Big 10 and SEC schools.

Yeah Iowa State has carried their weight. I think Texas fans are still feeling burdened by the old SWC where only about half the schools actually had fans who gave a shit. It was really annoying going to play against SMU and having 25,000 fans there and 20,000 of them were Texas fans.

But only Kansas football even approaches that kind of nonsense. And it was almost 30 years ago now, time to let the bitterness go guys.

[maninblack 7974]

 

[Steelers Roll Left 1168]

Last few years…..Iowa State football really turned it around, competed, contended for conference titles.  Before that?  Two decades consistently being one of the worst football programs in the 5/6 major conferences akin to Baylor pre-Briles/Griffin. Apart from this, Iowa State’s problem is the casual fan isn’t going to tune in to watch them play the way they would a blue blood plain and simple.  That leaves your base and unfortunately The Cyclones’ base is the 2nd most popular program in Iowa……..not exactly what Madison Avenue is looking for.  The Quad Cities have a larger footprint than many on this board might understand, but it’s still a 2nd tier footprint which is why it doesn’t have major professional sports and is barely even mentioned in that realm.  What the Cyclones are selling just doesn’t move the meter for the power brokers moving the pieces around on this chess board.  Sucks, but it’s true.  

Edited July 6, 2022 by Steelers Roll Left

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

34 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

Besides the already discussed issues, the reason ISU doesn’t get in on a 48 slot slate is that those already in the Big10 or SEC aren’t leaving. It’s not a clean slate. Vandy is not getting kicked out of the SEC. Mizzou isn’t going anywhere even though they are a suck fit to the SEC. And I don’t think the politicians of the coastal Pac12 teams will allow those schools into a conference with Texas or Oklahoma schools. If so that really wrecks the Big12 as a third power conference.

The interesting thing about all of this to me is that I don't think the SEC would ever even consider Maryland or Rutgers. The product on the field seems to at least matter a little bit to them.

[Gidnik 3268]

Ross Delling says reports that serious talks between the pac and big 12 are one way.  

 

[statsman 5457]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Iowa State averaged 1.2 million viewers per game last year, which is 27th overall. No they're not a blueblood or really even close but the "nobody gives a shit" line is hyperbolic and tiresome. 

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2021-49ef4f315858

What is their average in games not against Texas or OU? Historically?

[Deej 76759]

6 minutes ago, statsman said:

What is their average in games not against Texas or OU? Historically?

[DFW Horn 6123]

 

[Pancho 44757]

3 hours ago, ABSR said:

Yes Texas, and UH, as public institutions have to comply with FOIA.  However, Baylor (rape cover up, murder cover up, shit heads overall) can say they only have a "verbal report" about the wrong doings and nobody can FOIA them (They could be sued or part of a criminal instigation and that is different obligations than just FOIA requests/requirements).

And as the Big 12 is made up of some private schools, with the rights of the private institutions, the Big 12 can use the same restrictions as other private institutions even though they have Public members.   They can also release whatever they choose as well.

You just made this up and should probably stop promoting it as if it is fact. 

[Treefidy 1463]

12 hours ago, Steamboat1874 said:

I don't know why this is so hard.

There should be 4 each 16 team conferences (64 teams) in D1 football.

Each conference has 2 each 8 team divisions. 

And there should be 13 months each with 28 days and an extra holiday day at the end of the year.  Plus, the metric system makes a lot of sense.  But we don’t do things that make sense around these parts.  

[Texas Flood 1356]

2 hours ago, bullet said:

ISU is top 48 in value to who?

Its really the media companies.  Do they not value ISU because they already have Iowa in a small population state?  If you want to talk about brand value, Rutgers is probably #69 in the P5.  Maryland is bottom 10.  But the Big 10 still took them.  I don't see Duke getting left behind, but they have minimal football value.

People keep talking about the Pac 12 teams having value and the Big 10 being interested in them, but nobody watches.  Is that valuable to the TV networks to have those markets when nobody watches the teams?

 

Iowa State?

[TriStone 1724]

6 hours ago, slorch said:

No shit, Sherlock, but I'm not the one posting through the thread shitting on schools, nor are you or David Dennison

"remember that one time when we had a legendary talent named VY and 38 guys who were future NFL players who overcame Mack Brown's coaching?  Well that's the reason we're better than Iowa State."

Yeah.  Color me unconvinced of that particular line of fart smelling.

Yeah whatever.  I replied to you outside the context of the larger conversation because a lifetime of dealing with aggies has trained me to bristle when fans of schools that have never passed within so much as whiffing distance of a championship dare to belittle the, admittedly few and far between, national titles that my school has won.  But I do thank you for the reminder that I should not feel pity for Tech's relegation.  I sometimes find myself wavering, and thinking that throwing you a seasonal OOC bone is the right thing to do, but then along you come and reassure me of the right course of action.  So, thank you, and good day.

[Sbbruin 21842]

I always knew I liked Andy Katz.

 

[TKthunder2 4989]

2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I always knew I liked Andy Katz.

 

['stache 21802]

2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I always knew I liked Andy Katz.

 

Well then, in college football, if Iowa State is a fat girl who has to settle, I guess UCLA is a butterface with a rich daddy? And Baylor is the fat ugly girl who uses roofies to get laid at frat parties.

 

['stache 21802]

3 hours ago, Llogg said:

Congrats on the attendance, but that's fickle. The TV numbers in isolation aren't really the confirmation you think. How were the ratings vs their televised opponents' average ratings. In other words, were people actually tuning in to watch Iowa State? Were a bunch of them tuning in to see the opponent? Were they tuning in because there was fuck all else on at that time slot?

Even accepting your conclusion as iron clad that Iowa State is a fixture in the top 30 by any metric, it still comes down to who gives a shit? In a top-48 world it's still the top dozen driving the bus. Nobody cares if Iowa State would bring 15% (made up number, pick your own) more TV viewers than Mississippi State. You're talking about a rounding error in difference and making it seem like the most important data point in the analysis.

Oh man, never thought of that, hyuck! 

Yeah, there's a boost when a good program plays a blueblood. In the Big 12 that's two games a year. The ratings numbers are averages. If you put an OSU or ISU into the BIG or SEC there are more matchups against good programs, bluebloods and near bluebloods. The analysis has been done. And its more misleading to look at ratings excluding OU and Texas because the discussion is how would these programs do in the SEC or BIG where there will still be marquee oponents. Yeah if we're playing BYU and UCF the ratings will decline. That's why we're making our case that we belong.

[Okie State 3818]

Lol nobody gives a shit about UCLA sports. Come on now. They were a package deal to get USC.

[sasquatch69 603]

4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The hubris it takes for you guys to think we should just shut the fuck up and be happy to get relegated is something. 

Well, and as much as we all appreciate Texas at some level  (otherwise we probably wouldn’t be on this board), it’s not as though the Horns have been a player on the football stage in a decade or more.  The total package, sure, but this is about football. 

[SimonBolivar 10958]

15 minutes ago, sasquatch69 said:

 but this is about football. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by SimonBolivar

[Hurtlocker 2212]

32 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Oh man, never thought of that, hyuck! 

Yeah, there's a boost when a good program plays a blueblood. In the Big 12 that's two games a year. The ratings numbers are averages. If you put an OSU or ISU into the BIG or SEC there are more matchups against good programs, bluebloods and near bluebloods. The analysis has been done. And its more misleading to look at ratings excluding OU and Texas because the discussion is how would these programs do in the SEC or BIG where there will still be marquee oponents. Yeah if we're playing BYU and UCF the ratings will decline. That's why we're making our case that we belong.

Yeah, while big match ups do draw more, they require both teams to be doing well.   A 10-0 Bama vs a 0-10 Georgia doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers as if Georgia's number being flipped.

But unless you're one of those top ten brands, what matters most to your viewership is WHERE your game is shown and, to a smaller degree, when.

CBS*>ABC>NBC*>Fox>ESPN>ESPN2>FS1>ESPNU>FS2>anything else, including conference networks. CBS and NBC get a boost because they only market one game and they market the ever-living hell out of it.   The Big 12 should be begging CBS for that 3:30 slot that no one wants because they won't pay top dollar for it.   Take the game, give the money, absorb the massive amount of exposure CBS marketing will bring it.

From a timing standpoint it goes: east coast Saturday primetime> Noon/3:30 eastern > Off schedule afternoon (like 2 or 5pm eastern) > late prime est> Friday night >Thursday night > After dark.

Put Indiana v Rutgers on ABC at 3:30pm and it will do a metric fuck ton better than you think it will.   Likely getting 2m viewers who just can't be assed to turn their dial and will watch anything.

The games with the highest viewership always fall into one of two camps: Big game, with big names, with big stakes on the line, that's heavily marketed, who play a very close game going into the final minutes.   Or, a big team with a lot on the line playing close and/or getting upset.

If you've got one of those games above and its over in the 1st, everyone turns the dial and the ratings go in the shitter.

[GhostofDanJones 336]

Hell at this point they might as well do away with conferences and split the power 5 teams into 4 super regions like FCS, D2 and D3 all do. Would make things easier and give us all less headaches and stress. 

[Horn of Gabriel 1614]

Those ND fucks are going to stall this whole thing for a decade.

One of the B1G or SEC needs to fund Clemson/FSU/NC to fight and break the GOR to kill the ACC. Once that happens and removes that ND escape hatch, the B1G can lay the pressure by taking Oregon and UW and a few others and leave no other options. Then, they leak the new B1G/SEC 8-team playoff proposal that freezes out ND. That is the only thing that will for ND at this point. Otherwise NBC will give them just enough to get by. The PAC, Big12 and ACC will figure out how to do enough to survive, establish a new 15 year GOR to freeze everything in place, then use lawsuit threats/anti-trust to preserve undeserved playoff access.

[Valmy77 13226]

1 minute ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Those ND fucks are going to stall this whole thing for a decade.

Yeah? Well good on Notre Dame then.

[Zhorn96 1773]

1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

I always knew I liked Andy Katz.

 

true story...back in the 19th century

[Hurtlocker 2212]

1 minute ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Those ND fucks are going to stall this whole thing for a decade.

One of the B1G or SEC needs to fund Clemson/FSU/NC to fight and break the GOR to kill the ACC. Once that happens and removes that ND escape hatch, the B1G can lay the pressure by taking Oregon and UW and a few others and leave no other options. Then, they leak the new B1G/SEC 8-team playoff proposal that freezes out ND. That is the only thing that will for ND at this point. Otherwise NBC will give them just enough to get by. The PAC, Big12 and ACC will figure out how to do enough to survive, establish a new 15 year GOR to freeze everything in place, then use lawsuit threats/anti-trust to preserve undeserved playoff access.

The SEC does not want to freeze out ND.  They're ND's biggest Indy supporter.   If they freeze them out, they join the B1G

[Valmy77 13226]

17 minutes ago, GhostofDanJones said:

Hell at this point they might as well do away with conferences and split the power 5 teams into 4 super regions like FCS, D2 and D3 all do. Would make things easier and give us all less headaches and stress. 

I mean they didn't do away with the conferences. They just grouped them into regions to reduce costs, which is exactly what we used to do in Division 1 back before having Maryland and USC in the same conference was something we thought was a good idea.

[closetohumping 17439]

5 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The hubris it takes for you guys to think we should just shut the fuck up and be happy to get relegated is something. 

You’re unbelievable. We ain’t holding you back.  The b1g and the sec don’t want you.  We ca. talk about 17th largest stadium, 27th in attendance, 4 straight nine win seasons etc.   you’re not wanted.  Ucla sucks in a lot of sports can’t draw worth shit, is apathetic and they still got in.  Figure out why. 

[flatdawgs 1278]

58 minutes ago, Okie State said:

Lol nobody gives a shit about UCLA sports. Come on now. They were a package deal to get USC.

They were a package deal to keep the networks (Fox, in this case) from paying twice - two conference deals - for the LA market. I detest Oregon, but they'd have been the second choice in a vacuum. Stanford and UW for different reasons would be next, UCLA, Utah and ASU nearby. Of the 10 public Pac-12 schools that must report, UW athletics has the highest income and budget, in an effective tie with UO.

 

UCLA obviously tips the needle in basketball, but if football is paying the way, they're not second choice in the conference. Eliminating the LA market for anyone else was the reason it went down like this. Otherwise why not grab Arizona too?

 

USC and Oregon recruit nationally. I doubt the Trojans lose much sleep over Duck recruiting. If they do, they're still a giant pussy that's going to get reamed in the B1G. May it ever be so.

[SilasCoade 2622]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Oh man, never thought of that, hyuck! 

Yeah, there's a boost when a good program plays a blueblood. In the Big 12 that's two games a year. The ratings numbers are averages. If you put an OSU or ISU into the BIG or SEC there are more matchups against good programs, bluebloods and near bluebloods. The analysis has been done. And its more misleading to look at ratings excluding OU and Texas because the discussion is how would these programs do in the SEC or BIG where there will still be marquee oponents. Yeah if we're playing BYU and UCF the ratings will decline. That's why we're making our case that we belong.

That's not the superficial analysis I was talking about. You have to figure out the appropriate weight that each of several factors plays in determining the number of viewers. Those factors are opponent, time slot, network, home v. away. So you have the data outlined there but the analysis is not simply "what are the numbers without TX and OU?"